Bore scoring 2007 Porsche Cayman S

2007 Porsche Cayman S with bore scoring and I am in south Georgia. Where do I go from here? Any help would be much appreciated.

Holt, Hope we can help. Is your car driveable? Change the oil to a thicker brand that will help coat the cylinders and piston skirts. Have you been able to bore scope the cylinders, what does that look like. Lets see the evidence. cloud of blue smoke on start up with oil droplets on the inside of the exhaust pipes. Loud clicking of the piston skirts slapping the cylinder walls? You need to figure out who is going to change your engine. Find a suitable used motor and have that shop replace the bore scored one. Depending on your location, maybe a $10k bill. If you could have the newer motor bore scoped before replacement all the better. Google for replacement motor prices.

Car is driveable. Smoke is horrible out the tailpipe. Scoped the cylinders and it has significant bore scoring in two cylinders. I assume I am looking at block being replaced and no other options.

Jake Raby, AKA the bore scoring master owns Flat Six Innovations in Cleveland GA, and specializes in rebuilding P car motors that have died this death with bulletproof replacements. The problem is he usually has a 1 year waiting list or more, but call anyway as he will sometimes have a motor on the shelf for one reason or the other that is ready to go for anyone that needs it

That was spot on. I called them immediately and I am sure they do wonderful work. However, I will seek a better alternative to spending twice what my car is worth on a motor to be sent to me to install. Spoke to Jud at Flat Six and it sounds like they are experts. I will seek a different alternative in finding another motor. I love my little Cayman but I ain't in love with it! Thanks for the referral!

Holt, Fnel1771 blew up his engine in Aug 2022. check out the thread, (need a 3.4l motor). Luckily he had a top notch mechanic to remove all the items from the old engine and fit them to the junk yard engine. This engine turned out to be great, as you will read, Frank, the owner, took it to a test track and started pushing harder and harder. He was able to match the same times as he had done earlier in the year at that track with no oil usage. He didn't mention the cost but it was certainly less than a rebuilt motor and Frank is pushing it as hard as he can. Hopefully the rods bearings will not become scarred from oil starvation (running a deep sump). He mentioned a few courses that had long sweeping corners where the engine oil could collect in one of the heads as well as away from the oil pick up in the sump. Just letting you know that bore scoring and #6 rod bearing scaring from oil starvation are two known causes of engine melt downs. He did find a good junk yard engine quickly and was back at the track within a month.

Thanks! I just cannot find a reasonable junk yard motor.

It's a sellers market because apparantly we aren't wrecking them as fast as we are blowing them up! Try DCAuto in Rocky Mount, NC. Rumor has it that you can drop in a 2.7L "base" Cayman engine without too much agony.

There a fairly good selection on eBay… also might be a good time to drop a 3.8 motor in… check you options… check ebay

Drop a 3.8 motor in?

I would Not buy a used 3.8 as the bore scoring rate is higher than those of the 3.4.. However, I would disassemble the engine and send the case to LN Engineering to get a 3.8 with Nickies! Do it once and do it right, you will end with a bulletproof engine that screams

That’s how my engine was built. never heard the statistic about a 3.8, but doesn’t surprise me. Porsche should be ashamed not using nick sleeves

No surprise ^ sadly in the next few years and forward your going to start to see a ton of motors needing rebuilds… it’$ only a matter of time, but all these 3.4-3.8’s are entering the older stage of life

So if I need to rebuild my engine, this is enough info to allow me to do that myself? Including something like rebuilding with Nickies? I obviously can’t machine the cylinders myself who does the machining of the cylinders before inserting the Nickies, any engine machine shop?

TL, No, you will Not be doing any machining at all, once you disassemble your engine, you will send the block halves to LN Engineering for their Nickies, they also sell a Kit with all the parts you will need to reassemble the engine. For the heads I would suggest you to send them to Len Hoffman (Hoffman Automotive Machine) for refurbish, Hamheads have a lot of experience with these heads. A question, do you have any prior engine assembly experience (any kind)? If so, with the DVD series, you should be ok. Good luck with your project!

I don’t know that my engine needs a rebuild yet. Still trying to determine that and still probably a fair amount of usable time before I did have to do it. I have never rebuilt an engine and don’t have the tools to do so but considering the cost to have Flat6 do it, it would be worth the investment to do it myself if possible. I have built plenty of things in my life but never an engine. I’m a dentist so I’d rather do body work. Cut out the rust and replace it. But I think I could do an engine if I had the right tools.

Honestly, with the investment in specialty tools necessary, you may be better buying a rebuilt engine from LN. They have rebuilt engines in the 22k range with Nickies in stock 3.4, 3.6 and 3.8, and they come with a warranty. By the time you buy everything you need plus tools, you will be close to that. I spent nearly 20k on my rebuild doing it myself and will have to bite that cost if it turns out I screwed something up.

Not confirmed. Just thinking through the options and trying to learn as much as I can in case it is confirmed. Car is relatively new to me. Just sent an oil sample off for analysis. Symptoms are occasional but erratic heavy blue smoke on startup. Multiple cylinder misfire also at random times. Plugs and coils changed before me according to service records. I replaced the AOS with not much change although I did find oil in the feeder hoses. I also pulled out the variable valve timing solenoids and replaced the rear but cleaned and reinstalled the front. They tested normal compared to new ones when testing with a 9v battery . Neither new or old rear solenoids responded to the battery so I just installed the new ones. Has not misfired since I did that but still get blue smoke sometimes. Not every time. Does not seem to burn a measurable amount of oil in 3500 miles. This is a cold weather car, Minnesota and previously Wisconsin so it meets the right environmental conditions for bore scoring. Just switched it to DT40 oil to see if any change from M1 0W-40. If it does need a rebuild I think I have quite a bit of time before it gets worse. Just want to learn as much as possible now.

OK, TLo12, I know you may think DT40 maybe better than Mobil 1 , but one additive (ZDDP) can cause build up on the cylinder bore that cause wear to the coating of the piston skirts in our M97 engine . ZDDP also negatively affects the catalytic converters. Motul V 300 Competition 5W-40 is my choice due to its ester base and is ZDDP free.

Thanks. I switched to the 5W-40 to see if that has any impact on the blue smoke at startup. Just did it yesterday so no opinion yet. I was running M1 0W-40 with Ceratec. I’ll see what the oil analysis says about that. Maybe M1 5W40 or the Motul as you say is the thing to do. Again, I don’t know that I have bore scoring. Just not sure what is the best explanation for my symptoms.

Fingers crossed its not

Toes too. Thank you

Here is a white paper on what causes BORE SCORING by Charles Navarro, President of LN. http://lnengineering.com/files/2019-LN-Engineering-Understanding-Bore-Scoring-in-AL-Si-Cylinder-Systems.pdf I read this paper about 4 times, then printed it out and underlined sections to fully appreciate the paper. What this paper suggests is the razor edge I am running with the M97 engine. Seems my usage is working so far at 65k miles. But what about those 22k miles when I did not own it. I am not going to let that history cloud my vision unless something happens. All I know is the Lokasil cylinder bores are still functioning as they should and the piston skirts coated with Ferrocoat process are unmarked. Charles Navarro, says the Porsche to this day is the only manufacture to have utilized Lokasil before returning to Alusil with the introduction of the 9A1 engine in 2009.

OP, I went thru this same process earlier this year, when my 987.1 started consuming massive amounts of oil. I replaced the AOS first but no joy. Car wasn't ticking or smoking, but I got it bore-scoped and found the scoring. I laid out a series of options -- x-axis was cost and y-axis was power. I definitely wanted to end up with a near-zero bore-score risk, so I didn't seriously consider a used engine. Very roughly, assuming that I could sell my car as a roller for like 6-7k, I came up with: sell car, buy a 986, ~$0 outlay, 200 hp sell car, buy a 987.1 base, ~$15k outlay, 245 hp sell car, buy a 981 base, ~$30k outlay, 265 hp rebuild engine as a 3.4, ~$20k outlay (a few different shops), 295 hp rebuild engine as a 3.8, $20-35k (depending on the shop), 325-350 hp (depending on the shop) In the end, I decided to go the 3.8 route -- I was in love with the car and couldn't think of anything else that I would have wanted for the same money. This was a few months ago so the market was considerably higher -- it's possible that the numbers would shake out differently if I were doing the calcs today (or six months from now). In any case, I think there's no right answer here, good luck with your journey! Vik

Vik, Where did you go wrong with your motor to end up here. Too long warm up period in the driveway. Too much throttle on a luke warm engine and oil, Too much heavy throttle then switch off the motor. Or too cold of environment? Maybe you don't really know? Your answer could affect a whole string of readers here. Could it have been prevented in your opinion?

Apex1, good questions and unfortunately I don’t know the answer. I’ve had the car for <3 years and <8k miles, and I was careful to ease in and ease out of drives. Both the previous owner and I tracked the car, and both of us live in temperate weather. I did due diligence with Blackstone analyses and looking for sooty pipes or fouled spark plugs , and the car showed no signs other than the oil consumption — at least until the borescope showed definitive proof. Vik

Inviktus - Do you have the lower pictures of your bores? Especially 5 and 6 cylinders. Usually bore scoring starts at the bottom of the bore and works its ugly way up. If you saw the piston skits you would see the wear of the Ferrocoat coating. That's the key here to keep the Ferrocoat clean, without wear or any scaring from deposits on the cylinder bore. I'm not picking on any one brand of oil but in the past, many companies added a significant amount of ZDDP to the brand to keep the metal to metal surface slick. The problem is that the M-97 has a aluminum matrix bore and s Ferrocoat piston skirts. So when ZDDP starts laying its foundation to smooth out the metal to metal, little ridges form naturally. Because the Ferrocoat is softer than the ZDDP deposits, piston skirt wear occurs. This wear is irreversible. The question to you is, can you switch to Motul V 300 Competition 5W 40 and see if you can stabilize the piston skirt wear pattern thats being initiated in the lower bores? Not many of us have $20k laying around for the rebuild and install. If you want to rebuild, then I would suggest you check out LN and flat6innovations for their 4.0 rebuild to 400 hp. Its about $35k but you will know the additional HP and Torque is there. The Competition line has minimal amount of ZDDP, while relaying on the ester to help provide the slickness necessary for piston skirt coating Ferrocoat, ring bed and crown to slide against the Lokasil aluminum matrix cylinder bores.

Just had this conversation with my mechanic. I have an 06 Boxster base with 108k miles. We were talking about strategy. One thought was just run the 2.7 till it blows up and then put in something with more HP. --2.7 is hard to blow up --3.x isn't as reliable (obv) --2.7 is relatively inexpensive to source, way less that 3.x I get it, nobody wants to go slower... My plan is just get a 987.2 or 981 when I'm ready and/or my 2.7 blows up IF I don't just replace the 2.7 with another 2.7

I'm a little late to the thread, but trying to read up to make a purchasing decision. Looking at a near mint 2007 cayman base with 2.7L and 86k miles. Is this the Gen 1 engine? I was told the coating on this gen is nikasil and bad news. From what I've found so far it seems the 2.7L is less prone to scoring, but how much less prone? Will be driving in the Midwest...does the harsh cold equal certain doom for this engine? Thanks for all previous posts on the topic and TIA for any advice!!

If you haven't already, review the 1 hour PCA Tech Tactics video on bore scoring. There's some very good info there, probably the best that I know of. A 2007 (I own one) Cayman is certainly a 987.1 , which I think is what you mean by Gen 1. In general, the "base" engine cars (2.7L) anecdotally experience the least bore scoring. Bore scoring, like a lot of things that have low probability but high consequences, gets a lot of bandwidth on the internet. I mean, who posts every few months that their car has not experienced bore scoring. So take it all with a grain of salt. I just googled PCA Tech Tactics Bore Scoring. There are 3 good videos you can review. You might also want to watch their videos on the IMS bearing . The IMS bearing is not a major item of concern on the 987.1 Cayman , although some folks pay more money and get a 987.2 just to rule it out. Bore scoring can occur on either engine series. If there is anything that is "doomed" on this particular car, I would say it is the clutch/flywheel. They do not last forever. Mine was replaced around 75K. But when it goes, it won't affect the engine and it can be repaired. A car in good cosmetic condition (that goes beyond a nice detailing job) with a good service history is a very good starting point. You still want to get a quality pre purchase inspection if at all possible. Good luck.

I agree with the above however with age in these cars there is more and more bore scoring and IMS style issues… the 2.7 is considered probably the least problematic and the less displacement has mostly to do with that.. I had a 987.1 and it was fine but I do sleep better owning a 997.2 now