Opinions on buying a 996 as an upgrade from a 986

Hi all I'm new here, but wanted to get some opinions from this group. I currently have a 99 986 Boxter that I've had for about a year. I love the car and can't help but think I'd love it more with a bit more power, so I'm considering a 996. I've got my eye on a 1999 996 cab. It's a rare color that I love, but it has 110k miles. The engine was overhauled by a guy that owns a reputable Porsche indy shop. It's a flip, but I believe he's doing the right things, knows what he's doing, and is asking a fair price for what he has ($21,000). The engine had a previous shop install a scavenge pump on backwards causing oil starvation spinning a main bearing. He replaced the crank and carrier, rings, chain wear pads, water pump, low temp thermostat, flywheel, clutch, plugs, coils, engine mounts, trans mount, LN IMS bearing (he's a certified installer), updated coolant tank, and new injectors. The pics show no bore scoring. It's the original suspension. I live in a cold climate and am trying to get one last sanity check around the bore scoring and other potential issues. I'm a car guy, but don't have a good setup to do work myself so I'll have to pay for work done. All of my "porsche guy" friends are mixed on this one. Some say its a great buy, others saying to run away and these cars are a world of problems. Reminding me a full rebuild will cost more than the car. What do you guys think? For something with this many miles that doesn't show any bore scoring, will have me keeping an eye on it, changing the oil, using good gas, and warming it up properly in the winter....I'd think this is about as solid as you can ask for with a sub $30k 996, right? Or is there anything I'm overlooking that might cause the bore scoring to happen rapidly over time? Any other opinions or questions I should ask? I do trust the guy and I think he'll give me an honest opinion. Thanks in advance.

Go drive it.. if the Indy has decent reviews and is known to do good work, that's not very much money with all those items that have been done. if you are OK with the Cab life you will likely get on ok with it... that's a good entry point to the 911 experience sub 30k and all the heavy maintenance addressed is very reasonable... i had a similar opportunity before i bought my car, i was set on buying this 996 with a rebuilt motor by someone, but when i drove it, i passed as the car didn't feel right... when i drove my car it was significantly better like night and day... you have to drive it and like it... at least you have the 986 to compare it to.

That sounds right. I know the market is softening, but its a lot of time to do all of this work. I'll have to fly down to drive it, but agree 100% that its that last and most critical bit.

Oh ok you have to fly somewhere yeah that's a bummer... i was buying out of state also, after talking to the guy on the phone a couple times i had a feel for the seller, plus he texted me a lot of history going back from previous owners, then i flew in, he picked me up at the airport and took me to the car, let me test drive it for as long as i wanted, encouraged me to put my foot down, we couldn't strike a deal so i left, i was staying locally he called me the next day and we made a deal, it was more than i wanted to spend but i liked the car, after i picked it up i drove it home 850 miles in one day.. it operated as expected actually better than i could have hoped for, 18 months later no issues so far... so yes there are good cars out there.

Value on that engine alone is pretty close to the ask. You gotta live. I'd get on booking that ticket.

OP - At that buy-in you’ll have a fresh motor. Have you done due diligence on the shop? Suspension will cost $6,000-$9,000 for full replacement cost range ($4-6,000 diy) with top performance parts. At 100k+ miles that will need doing, if original underpinnings. You’ll be able to recoup some capital if you sell the Boxster. How’s the paint and what’s the interior like?

This is a familiar call I've made recently. I don't understand the obsession with 5-digit mileage - if these cars fell apart above 100k miles they would have no reputation for quality. Not worried about that. The engine rebuild is way scarier: you don't know where metal bits may have gone inside the engine during the bearing event, so you're trusting that the shop did a thorough job cleaning and inspecting everything before putting the engine back together. At $21k it could be a great buy, but it could also be a ticking time bomb if the shop is only getting it to run long enough to sell. I would personally pass. An engine that has 100% never had any bad history would be more appealing even at a few thousand dollars premium. At that point you know that all you have to do to keep it running is to stay the course of driving habits and maintenance.

Who did the rebuild? As for weather 996 -> 986 is an upgrade, that's a personal choice, as I understand it.

If you like your 986 but want more power, then a 986 (or 7) S is a better upgrade path. The Carrera isn�t that much faster than an S and the handling is not as good (I�ve had both). Granted, the 996 is a better road tripper. IMHO, don�t buy a pcar because it�s a �deal,� buy it because it�s the one you want.

^^ there we go.

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Actually talking with the owner and he'd put on all new suspension for $2200. Like I mentioned, he's got a shop and also sells parts, so it sounds like he'd swap everything out for cost. Feeling like that might be an inexpensive way to future-proof.

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Quote: You said replaced the rings...? Didn't mention cylinder re-sleeving with nickies or steel. So assume its a stock oem 120k mile block...?

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Correct. Original 110k mile block, but everything was completely disassembled, cleaned, and put back together with nearly everything as new. No signs of bore scoring, so he didn't do the bore sleeves, but new fuel pump, vacuum lines, all bearings, gaskets, etc.

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Quote: With a 110k miles on the block structure, ALL the experts say the cylinder out of round and taper will be way out. As NONE make it to 100k with in spec cylinders. Cylinders can look perfect, but be far from perfect. I measured a block that did 'look' perfect at 60k, but were less than .001" from being over out of round & taper specs @ 60k miles. Your rebuild shop must have measured cylinders in the rebuild I'd hope, ask them what it was. .0035" is what LN Charles says is max specs. Unfortunately many shops that don't have vast experience with loco-sil m96 blocks, or even if they do, once they see good looking cylinder bores they go no farther and don't want to know. Especially if their goal is to rebuild the least expensive way out for the best profit. Knowing that the engine will run like this at least for a while. Many Engine Re-builders/car sellers are hoping even with over limit oor, ring/piston seal is not bad enough to have obvious piston slap, excess blowby, or blowing out tailpipe smoke at least until its sold for a while, sold as is. And in their defense, once they know the 'good looking' block is trash and needs $7500+ more $$$$$ worth of sleeving/shipping/pistons/rods?/etc, they feel going from a non running spun main bearing to at least a running engine (with a load of good new parts) is a step forward as its almost impossible to justify the extra co$t to a flipper... Even if the cylinders where somehow in spec (going against what Charles from LN and other M96 engine experts have posted on here) you still can't hone these silicone impregnated loca-sil cylinders to seat new rings. @110k miles, cylinders are more than likely way OOR. Using new rings with old oem pistons that can't have any NEEDED ferrous type coating left on them to play good with loca-sil cylinders,, will be very short lived and more than likely rings will never seat, and engine will have piston slap/ ripe for bore score . What I'm saying is, @110k without sleeving the cylinders, can't do a dependable durable lasting rebuild at all. Thats what the m96 engine is all about. Re-engineered $30,000-70k engines. You say he changed crank and carrier. new crank is 6k, used recon'd ones 4k, if you can find 1. Was this a used crank..? Was it reconditioned, checked for cracks..? New main and rod bearings..? To answer your question with what I'd do if in the market for a 996...? IMO, go for 997.2. Or better yet, a 996 turbo or gt with a bullet proof legendary Mezger engine and enjoy some real power/reliability/durability. That way you can enjoy the superb 996 chassis and the beauty of its bodywork with 400+HP. What�s special about the Mezger engine? Listen to its mechanical sizzle and tingling, sharp-edged howl, and remember its history, what it has achieved. Then you�ll know. Or just keep and enjoy your Boxter. Hey, you asked.... JMHO PS.. As long as i touched on the topic... From the owner of Pelican Parts some time ago: "hypereutectic aluminum silicon alloy cyl bores, the honing process destroys the etched layer, and renders them useless. These type cylinders are a one-time-use product, and should not be used again if the engine is rebuilt. Cylinders cannot be reliably re-ringed. This indeed is a common misconception in some Porsche circles. There are no replacement rings available that are specifically designed for the cylinders. Of course, throwing out your current pistons and cylinders leads to the large expense of new ones, so a lot of people reuse them anyway. In some cases, the new set of rings seat fine, and they indeed can be reused successfully. However, you cannot hone these cylinders, nor predict whether the rings will indeed seat properly. The correct action to take is to purchase new pistons and cylinders, otherwise you may be tearing down your engine again in less than a mere 1000 miles." Best chance for ring seal if all cylinder specs are in limits, don�t pull the pistons out of the cylinders and don�t dislodge or disturb the rings. Of course, you are taking a risk here that you will have worn rings in the very near future. I don�t necessarily recommend playing the odds like this, but if you�re rebuilding a good running engine with excellent leak-down numbers for the purpose of replacing non-wear problem , then it might be a good bet."

Yes, upgrade to a 996! I had a 02 Boxster, 996 is a world better... My .02, don't get a cab, too many problems with the top mechanism. And don't get a 996.1, get a 996.2 C2, stay away from the C4's, much more to go wrong.

I’ve seen that engine stand picture before….. another post perhaps? Not saying that’s bad.

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+1! I had a 2000 Boxster S and �upgraded� to a 996 so I could take my kids with me. Otherwise, a 986S is arguably just as good. My advice: drive a 996 and 986S locally and then determine for yourself which one you like. And Skip is correct about the additional complexities of the Cab on a 996. If you don�t care, get the coupe, which is lighter anyway.

Something fishy here. Indy shop that knows Porsches has a repaired motor in a cool color car for $21K? And he is willing to put in fresh struts at cost? And when I read what Allcool reminded me about : "And in their defense, once they know the 'good looking' block is trash and needs $7500+ more $$$$$ worth of sleeving/shipping/pistons/rods?/etc, they feel going from a non-running spun main bearing to at least a running engine (with a load of good new parts) is a step forward as its almost impossible to justify the extra co$t to a flipper.." I'd follow his advice. Join the PCA and read the ads there. Much better way to find a well sorted car. And there is nothing wrong with a cab as long as you have an extra $3K in reserve for when that needs repair.

How many miles and time on this rebuilt engine?

This is starting to sound fishy, buyer beware if he asks you for a deposit before you book your ticket be careful, the red flag for me, is the whole suspension for $2,200 hes bending over backwards its starting to sound too good to be true... i'm not you so i don't know what you info you have, can we say, that you have been sent pictures and information that lead you to believe its a real car, and that you have talked with a live person on the phone not just texting?

mpfaff. If he has seen these pictures in other posts, then, yeah, then ghost this guy ASAP. - take this back. It's a Rennpart rebuild.

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I have had a 996 Carrera at north of 170k miles which was still driving just fine and had no visible or perceptible problems with oil usage, blow-by or any other issues. One of my best friends has another 996 C2 with over 200k miles without any issues. I am just confused, should we have stopped driving our cars at some point and done a rebuild?

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I repeat�not saying that�s bad�

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He put about 1200 miles on it since the rebuild.

The pics look like one of Aaron's rennpart rebuilds... https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post19069794

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Break in mileage is typically considered 1500.

Yep. Some people on the thread are thinking it could be someone shady. I don't think so at all. He strikes me as a very honest guy that understands this stuff really well and stands by his work. I suspect he didn't sleeve the cylinders to make sure he didn't get underwater on the project which i also do understand. I'm just trying to learn things the easy way by getting the advice of the community here. All the opinions are very much appreciated.

I totally get the "It could also be fine and go for 100k more miles." brain worms. I would not choose to finance finding out on the downside. Keep looking, imo.

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I'll try to help your confusion, no, do not rebuild a great running engine.... I love it, your very high mileage m96 engine(s) runs good, with full power, no oil usage , excess blowby, piston slap, or bore scoring. Or any other problems..? You must take very good care of your car. I'd expect nothing less from an expensive German sports car. However that wasn't what my post addressed. My post was about rebuilding(re-ringing) high mileage m96 engines. as thats what part of this thread is about. The over limit OOR/taper comes into play when you go to rebuild a over 100k m96 block. And want the new rings to seat/seal correctly in old oor cylinders, As I explained in above post. The claim ALL m96 blocks by 100k are over limit, many way out, comes from Charles @ LN, confirmed by PT3(probably the most experienced knowledgeable m96 tech on here or maybe anywhere) many other m96 experts have also confirmed this common m96 block structure/OOR/failure condition. LN gets in dozens? hundreds? of blocks, to make that claim. PT3 worked at Porsche dealerships for 100 years. I believe them, have no reason not too. As I've measured a m96 block last summer @ only 60k miles and it was at .00265" taper/oor. Max limit is said to be a very liberal .0035". So at 60k block was .00085" from being out of spec. What you think it would be at in another 40k miles..? A new block starts a 0 oor/taper. jmo

Literally 100 years at Porsche dealerships. He follows a strict regimen of protein shakes loaded with organic kale and Motul racing oil and he�s had more fistfights with angry young dentists and stock brokers that burnt out the clutches of their new 911s than you�ve had sex with women. (And he�s one of the very few ppl actually engineering functional m96 upgrades)

We really do love pt3 <3

I won't opine on the merits/demerits of the engine condition; plenty of folks here with more experience than me already weighing in. As to the question suggested by the thread title, "Is a 996 an upgrade from a 986?" My experience is yes. And no. My daily driver from November 2018 until 2021 was a 2004 986.2 S, likely the apex of the 986 line. It's an absolute RIOT to drive. I live in the Colorado foothills above 7500' and drove it year round, and did a couple of Eiskhana autocrosses on a frozen lake in Georgetown, CO. (Amazing what a good set of Blizzaks can do!) For obscene, shameless, topless fun, I think the 986.2 S is the best game in town. (I'm married, after all!) But I'd always wanted a 911 and frankly, I wanted a hard top that was a little bigger. Caymans have only recently gotten interesting to me and I thought that a 964 or 993 was more primitive - and unjustifiably more expensive - than I wanted. I borrowed a friend's 997.1 C4S for a week and I really liked it, but it frankly seemed a little more refined/sterile than I wanted for my daily driver. I wanted something that felt like the best mix of the "911 feel" but with a balance of the refinement of water cooled models with enough of the "viscerality" of the older models. I quickly fell in love with the widebody 996.2 C4S. It wasn't about speed for me. I've had 600+ HP Panamera Turbos and other scaldingly fast cars, but none of them felt "right" to me. It was about the overall experience I was after, which the .2 C4S delivers. I've never owned and have never driven a 996 cab, so I can't compare those to the Boxster. If you're just looking for top down fun and don't need the extra space, I really think that a 996 cab will feel a bit more ponderous and will certainly drive differently than your lithe little 986. More power, for sure. But more weight and the weight distribution of the engine hanging over the rear axle will feel very different than the balanced mid engine of the Box. The 996 motor will be a bit easier to work on for sure, as you'll have a bit more access and won't have to go through gymnastics and contortions just to get to the motor like in your Boxster. We still have both cars. The 986 has become my wife's and the 996 is my daily driver. (We also have a 958 Turbo for long trips that require my wife to take a bunch of crap with us.) If there's any way to swing a 996 coupe and be able to keep the 986, you'll definitely thank me and feel compelled to buy me a beer if we ever meet. The 986 and 996 are very different cars. Both are excellent, but both have very different qualities. You've lived the fear of the IMS/RMS of your Boxster, so you'll be at home in the 996. On the other hand, if you can't keep the 986 and are only looking at replacing with a 996 cab, consider "The devil you know..." The 996 will be a more refined road car for longer trips, and you can take a decent sized dog with you wherever you go. The 986 will probably out corner it more often than not. Just the perspective of a guy who has had - and happily still has - both. Cheers, and best of luck on your decision making. On the lake in Georgetown, CO Maggie, driven year-round in the mountains. Annie in her snow shoes. EDIT: Respect for the engine rebuild over a carpet.

Hey, I fly prop planes also...they take care of the spare cash problem that the Porsches occasionally leave. We have a 996, 986 S and a 993 and the Boxster is easily my favorite smile machine. The 911's are great, they are iconic and few cars give you the driving experience they do, especially the 993, but for pure fun I am solidly in Camp Boxster!

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Thats because it�s an S, though right?

Not necessarily, the base Boxster while not as quick, is still a nimble and relatively light roadster...still fun. S just makes it better.

From one guy with both ('99 986 and '00 996) to another, this was spot-on . I daily the 996 and love it for that, the Boxster comes out on the weekends for fun in the sun.

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While my tastes generally don't include stripes/logos and I usually prefer silver wheels, D@mn your 996 looks great!

Big agree. That is a lovely car.