I'm losing faith :(

Since I bought my 04 C4S last July, it's been to the dealer 8 times. My dealer is 500 Kms from me, so I've added 8000 Kms of mileage to the car just to get it serviced. The stereo is crap (CR23) and doesn't work when cold...but that's not covered by CPO, changing it means buying a completely new system. Thanks MOST. A couple phantom glitches with the windows are annoying also. I also have a coolant issue that the techs at the dealer can't seem to solve. I live in a remote region, there are no good indy's in my area. The next closest area is Calgary....which is 10 hours away. This is my DD so flatbedding it across the province for a couple weeks isn't an option. Did I mention my dealer doesn't actually stock ANY freakn parts save oil filters and belts. So I need one trip for them to diagnose...and a return trip for them to repair. I bought this car because it was CPO....hoping that that would mean I would not come across any large issue for the immediate future and if I did, the Dealer could resolve them with minimal trauma to my sanity and wallet. So far my wallet is fine, but my sanity is coming unglued. I've added so much coolant to the car I've completely replaced it 2 times. That's 44 litres. I'm on my 12th jug of coolant....been adding a half jug at a time every week. They've replaced one rad and the reservoir tank. I've replaced the coolant cap to the newest version. They say they've ran the car to full temp and it wouldn't leak and the pressure was stable. Yet I get it home and it's still losing coolant. Mega...sigh. Anyway, that issue is frustrating but it isn't the end all and be all. I'm reading more and more engine failures. IMS is an issue, but not necessarily a death sentence, more like cautionary warning....like high cholesterol or smoking. However, cracked cylinder walls ending the car's life are appearing more and more. On 996s with the same mileage and within a couple years age of my C4S. It's pretty depressing. It really seems like Porsche's first kick at the water cooled can was a failure. It wasn't until the 997 that they got it right. Today, for the first time, she wouldn't start. I finally got her going, only to get a CEL. Seems like all these idiots who talk crap to me about driving a Porsche in the winter might have a point. At least it's starting to feel that way. Maybe winter is just too long. I can remember how much I truly love driving this car last summer. A joy just to be in. Unfortunately, I hardly remember that feeling anymore. I've been dreaming about owning a 911 since I was 12...and now it feels like after half a lifetime of dreaming and drooling, I bought the wrong one. Sorry for the **** post...I think I'll watch that GT2RS video a few more times to try and cheer myself up sean

No No don't watch the GT2RS video. It will make the 996 looks worse. Is is too cold to bring the car out still?

You know what they say.... Location location location..... And your location sucks! Seriously, you are subjecting that car to some truly harsh environments. Didn't you wash it in sub freezing temps and the whole car froze? That might not help your radio. Maybe it's just not the right time for you to own a 996. The only Porsche I would own in your climate is a Cayenne.... and they have their own problems.

No loaner car available?

The Cayenne is renowned for not having any problems, of any sort. It is the Porsche of SUVs.

My car loves the winter. Not as much as the summer but anyways, no problems. Just wach the rs vid, and know that you have at least a fraction of that fun in the garage ;D

Sorry to hear of your delema. Stop adding more coolant! You can add it the rest of your life, and the results will be the same. You, or someone needs to find out where it's going and address the issue once and for all. It can't be that difficult. You most likely have a good radiator shop in the area. They should certainly be able to find the problem in less than 10 minutes, ok maybe 30 at most if they're unfamiliar with Porsches. Get it fixed, start your car more often in the cold, get a battery tender. Life is good! Enjoy!

I bought my car last year, drove it a bit, went on a month vocation, came back and drove it a BIT more, and then stored it for the winter. Looking at the pot holes on the roads here, and all the **** involved with driving it in the winter, I decided to store it. I haven't really had this car long enough to judge it too much. I have a new clutch from the previous owner and a pretty new engine from Porsche. I also have all the documentation. This spring till the fall will be its first test. Although I am going to Tokyo in June so I’ll be departing from it again but not for long. I love the car and I am willing to deal with the troubles associated with its ownership. It's really a juggling act, and you have to be willing to deal with it. Although you encountered many problems, who knows, they might all stop now since you addressed most of them.

Jim, I froze the front left tire...that shouldn't have anything to do with the radio...but regardless it was crapping out before that event. It basically has been crapping out since the first time the car saw -30. Ever since then, the radio will not function when it's any colder than -5. Still seem to work fine when it's above that. Yes I live in a cold and harsh environment (well, for 5 months of the year) but I did a lot of research before buying this car. Cold was not an issue. THere are lots of people driving 911's all winter long...in Canada/US and in Europe. I had a Porsche tech from Norway tell me as long as my coolant was rated to the temps I got, the car would be fine. For the most part of this winter he was right. It has ALWAYS started. My desire for the 911 wasn't just performance based, it's world best based. It has always been the only (in my eyes) true everyday supercar. You can drive it every single day, for 100s of 1000s of Kms, for decades....and it will be flawless. You can take it to the track and experience true sports performance. That's why I rate it above ferrari's and lambos, etc. They are extremely good looking (ok, some aren't) and very fast...but don't get it wet...don't show it snow...and definitely don't go on long vacation drives with it...they are TOYS. Weekend play things. Expressions of ego. (generally speaking...there are exceptions) The are fun and fast, but their purpose is singular. The 911 isn't, at least not to me. It's most of the performance of a supercar, with most of the utility of an everyday car, in a beautiful and ageless design. It's the perfect CAR. Isn't that the whole point of the 911? I wanted the best car, not the best toy. My current "depression" isn't related to simply owning a 911. I do love this car. It's related to the (seemingly) imminent tragedy of some sort that will happen to this poorly designed engine. Stick a GT3 engine in there, that doesn't suffer all the issues the M96 does, and I wouldn't have a complaint. It bothers me that they can design such a bullet proof engine as the GT3 and Turbo....but after what, 4 revisions?, the M96 was never really fixed. As I said, the coolant issue isn't really the source of my sorrow. It'll be fixed, even if I have to take a week off work and stand at the dealership and make them fix it. (It's CPO...so THEY are going to fix it on THEIR dime) People are doing IMS retrofits....just in case. If you're also reading all the issues about cracked cylinder walls...are you not equally worried about another possible source of imminent death? Flat 6 can't keep up with demand for rebuilt/reworked engines...so there is a high demand (not just for parts but for his excellent work and reputation of course) but none the less...having all these potential and law of averages says *probable* issues with my engine kinda sucks all the life out of me. It doesn't exactly make me excited to do a DE or track day...even a spirited canyon road run. Anyway, my point is that 911's are supposed to be one of the most reliable platforms ever made...obviously, you have to exclude the M96 from that. sean

Your best bet might be to find a really well-recommended Indy where you can ship your car off to them, have them diagnose and fix EVERYTHING that might be wrong. After that you get your car and just maintain it. Once everything is addressed you should be okay for quite some time.

I would call Porsche customer care and see what they can do to help.

What about buying a beater Honda to serve as a backup car? I find that a backup car works wonders in reducing logistical- and mechanical-related stress levels. Regarding cylinder liners: Jake makes a pretty compelling argument that cracked cylinder liners stem from failing water pumps. It's compelling for two reasons: 1) Jake knows his stuff, and 2) I want really badly to believe that preventative water pump R&R is all you need to do to keep your cylinder liners happy.

I think that the broken waterpump impeller has more to do with the cracked head? Not the liners, that supposed to be more of a casting issue?

Sean, best of luck to you in getting your car sorted out. Look on the bright side, at least you don't own a Ferrari. Reading this may make you feel better. http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316399

I hear you Sean. I find myself thinking about what might go wrong more often these days since my CPO expired on Feb 3rd of this year. I am changing the oil in the 996 tomorrow (Castrol Syntec 5w-40 if anyone cares ) and I am going to have an oil analysis done and cut open the filter. I hope i won't find anything but i have an indie on speed dial if I do. My indie has installed the IMS retrofit before so we will see. Then I think water pump, then I think low temp stat, and then I think I read this forum too much........ I plan to install the magnetic drain plug and spin on oil filter adapter with tomorrows oil change. Hopefully, that is all I will need to do in the near term other than fresh coolant and a brake fluid flush. Keep the faith, better weather is ahead.

996 in the cold? No problem! I'm in northern Norway and my '98 996 is my daily driver. It has performed perfectly this winter with no hickups at all. I've even tracked it! Just this past weekend I joined some VW and Audis for a day on the ice: It's sad that OP has troubles with his 996, but to balance the picture: My 996 has been a dream so far. Truly a perfect balance between supercar and every day trouble free motoring, sprinkled with top of the line German engineering. I love it to death and the only way I'm parting with it is when I'm ready to get a 997 or Panamera.

How does it run otherwise? I'm new to Porsches, but it seems if it were burning that much coolant it would run terrible and be belching smoke all over the place. Otherwise it would be obvious where the leak is. If you live on a military base, are you sure someone isn't messing with you out of boredom and draining your coolant?

If the car is still under CPO maybe you should see about trading it in for another Porsche. Reading some of the posts here it seems that maybe it's just that particular car that doesn't like the cold.

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He's in Canada man! There is no military! disclaimer - men and women in the canadian military perform honourable and much valued work on behalf people of canada - the comment above is made for humorous reasons only

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Loosing much coolant through the engine would be a smoky affair, yes. Since he doesn't mention it and the shop has tried the usual suspects (expansion tank, cap and a radiator) I guess the problem, luckily, is elsewhere. A leak isn't that easy to spot, as the car is mostly flat underneath. A friend of mine had a leak on his C4 earlier this winter. He left a pool of coolant wherever his front end was parked, but it wasn't that easy to pinpoint the point of origin. After a fair bit of dismantling, then running the engine long enough for it to release coolant to the radiators, we finally found the fault: He had hit a pothole quite bad and physically punctured one of the radiators. Approach the dealer about leaving the car for a week or two so they can leave it parked like you usually do and do proper fault finding to get to the bottom of this. After this many tries I would imagine they are willing to do it, and give you a loaner while it's in the shop.

The cold isn't the problem and neither is the car--it's the dealer. There's no reason an even semi-competent Porsche mechanic shouldn't be able to find a coolant leak after this many trips.

Like you said, eventually the coolant has to make it to the ground, but he didn't mention pools of coolant under the car. There should also be residue where it eventually exits the vehicle confirm a leak somewhere. You would also smell it. If it's not being burned and there is no evidence of pooling or leaking, then it seems someone is screwing with him. I can't think of another option. I could be wrong. I've owned lots of cars, but this is my first Porsce and I've only had it for 8 days

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your coolant is working so good it is reversing global warming! our savior is here excuse me,,,,almost pill time

I would welcome a bit more warming up here, spring still feels far away...

Got up to 87F here on Saturday. A cold front came through this afternoon and it's down to 65F tonight. Top will be down tomorrow morning.

F. U.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

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an oslo border webcam was my favorite link for escaping back into the reality of the world. most of the time its snow and ice up in your region. good luck with the weather and take care

Thanx! Yeah, we have a few months with serious wintery weather, but it doesn't bother me too much. A little indicator light in my instrument panel that reads "TC OFF" helps the mood quite a bit. The summers can be good too though, with the midnight sun and late night beers. Webcam from up here: http://weather.cs.uit.no/

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Pretty much exactly right. No, I am not BURNING coolant. There is nothing in my oil, nor any smoke out the back. I can see steam coming out of the front of the car when it gets really hot. Now that it is warming up, it's boiling/steaming out even more. I'm having a call with the dealer in about an hour. I will request a loaner, but the last time I spoke with them, they didn't have one. Of course, they may not want to give me one since I live 500 kms away from them. In the end, I might just take the front bumper off myself and try to track down the source. Otherwise, my car has been awesome in the snow. It's a lot of fun, but not as much fun as summer track events. My new rear tires are arriving today and being put on this weekend. I need to get this coolant issue resolved before I do my first autoX event.

I have a Carrera 2 which is a lot of fun, a C4 even more so when the condtions get extreme. As the leak is up front, you could start a tear-down there, but be ready to dismantle a whole lot. With just the front fender cover off (around 16 screws, including one PAIN IN THE *** behind the front wheel-arch liner, under the sidelights, mounted vertically) you don't see much. There is a duct in front of the radiators that also need removal (5 torx screws), with it off you still don't see much as the aircon-condenser is in front of the coolant radiators. It can be loosened and moved out of the way, but be careful with the A/C-lines. Removing the wheels and bending the arch-liner away will show you more, and especially the fan. When my friends radiator was broken the fan assembly was covered in coolant. These fans push a lot of air and spray the leaking coolant all over the place, so check the fans first. If the leak isn't in the radiators or hose-connections (there are two large on the inside, towards the car, on the top and bottom of the rad and a smaller one on the outside top corner), then check the hoses themselves. Someone here probably knows where they run and what places are prone to failure. Good luck!

The car goes back to the dealer on monday. This will be their last chance to resolve the issue before I have to take matters into my own hands. thanks for the advice. sean

Hey Sean, If it's smoking up front, you likely have a bad clamp at the rad... as far as a good indy... have you heard of Eurasia?... they mainly work on German cars and have been Pcar enthusiast for a long time.

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Keep the good weather there till next Tuesday, business trip to HOU.