Latest on my IMS leak problems

Well, today I took my car to my local OPC. for them to investigate the latest leak. As I posted previously, if this is this is a IMS leak it will be the fourth in under three years and the third in fifteen months. If it proves to be an IMS leak, what are my options? Just changing the seals and replacing bolts does not seem to solving the problem. It seems to me from other posts on this issue that there are other possible causation factors i.e. poor lubrication, shaft deflection, bearing wear that are more relevant which could be causing the seal to leak. Any advice on how I should deal with this should the OPC come back with a recommendation just to change the seal...from my conversations with the OPC anything they do is being 'managed@ by Porsche GB. To me the best option would be for the IMS bearing and shaft to be replaced, I do have a Porsche warranty until the end of this year. Just how far could I take this. Thanks Roy

If you have a Porsche warranty then I guess you have to stay with the OPEC route otherwise I would suggest getting Hartech's advice as they have most experience in this area - might be worth a phone call to them.

Just how far could I take this? With the list of failures you've had so far I would be inclined to seek legal advice rather than enthusiasts advice.Porsche seem to have a poor record for customer satisfaction in such cases,what you've put up with up to now would put many lesser car companies to shame.

Unfortunately, legal minds don't have the necessary qualifications to properly advise on this subject. Clearly from what we have been told simply replacing the seal and bolts is treating the symptoms, not the cause. There is obviously something fundamentally wrong that needs to be investigated. This would probably involve tearing apart the engine and measuring all the parts involved to check for out of tolerance parts. However, that may not be sufficient because parts change shape under load. Porsche are obviously the best people for the job but how you persuade them to do something about it is tricky. I had a similar problem with Mercedes about 10 years ago which resulted in them buying the car back off me. Perhaps this is a consideration here because anything else may be time consuming and expensive without any guarantee of a satisfactory outcome. I think I would start with the citizens' advice bureau.

Sorry if it seems harsh but my advice would be read a few more posts here and on Rennlist on IMS issue's Porsche would not be your best option as they have no IMS fix apart from replacing the engine. They have no in house method of pulling the bearing only the independents will.

Would give Trading Standards a call for advice after you have a look at the 'Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Good luck.

Thanks to all for your advice. This is the latest info, following the replacing of the IMS seal several times and following test driving the leak has continued. Yesterday as directed by PCGB the OPC centre has applied a 'SEALANT' to the IMS and the cover. According to the PCGB this is a Factory approved procedure, and has had good results in stopping the leak. Having applied the sealant and testing my OPC has told me that the leak has stopped. But to me this has just masked the fact that the seal is leaking and not addressed what is causing the leak. The OPC has been great, but PCGB seems to be quite happy just to bung in some sealant and hope for the best. Has anyone have any experience of this. I have told them that I am not happy with this, and want a proper engineering solution, whatever that may be. Roy

Paul (kasspa) recently had his RMS/IMS seals done and they also found silicone smeared on to the IMS housing. If it is an "approved" procedure, that explains it. An approved bodge IMO.

Thanks Richard, apart from jumping up and down and foaming at the mouth, threatening to take legal advice/action and never buy another Porsche is there anything sensible that I could do? If they replaced the IMS bearing and shaft, would that fix it. Roy

Just remembered the post from thirteeneast seems that Porshe can't do that

Big difference between cant and wont I'm afraid.

I don't think there is any guarantee that changing the intermediate shaft and seal will permanently cure the leak. You would be facing a mega bill to do this anyway. Unfortunately, you are now between the devil and the deep blue sea. What they have done by applying the sealant has stopped the leak for the time being, but it sounds like a temporary solution to me, and is clearly masking the problem. They should have experience enough to do this job properly, but it would make me wonder if that is the case. If you are paying for the job, it should have a two year warranty under the Porsche parts guarantee. I would get them to confirm that, and if it does start up again, take it to another OPC.

I do have a Porsche warranty until the end of this year, I would have thought that this would provide for a proper repair of the cause. At the moment I feel that I am dealing with Del Boy motors and not such a prestigious manufacturer!!. I have told them that I am not satisfied with their 'solution' and they should do whatever is necessary to fix the problem. Not expecting the response that I would like ..but I can but hope.

I have a folder 2 inches thick of the bills for the several times they did the RMS & IMS seal on mine before they got it right, And Dora the explorer could not have dreamed up some of the prices luckily all done under warranty. Is there a bulletin from Porsche about the use of Silicone?.

Could you send them a letter and cc' bbc watchdog. Or am I being too naive?

And just remember any work done under Porsche warrenty is not guaranteed the moment the warrenty runs out. I had an RMS change at the end of my warrenty and they weren't interested when it leaked again. If I'd of even paid just a £1 I'd have been covered but as it was warrenty work that I didn't pay for seperately no joy.

Next move is to complain again through their complaints procedure,providing them with my thoughts on their performance todate, and that they should be dealing with the cause and not the symptoms, and see where that gets me. I have thought about communicating their proposed fix of applying sealant to the IMS to the media, with Top Gear at the top of the list!. Why don't they just get on with it and do the job properly.

I will check this out..as this is supposed to be a factory approved application, it should be documented

Don't hold your breath with this either - getting satisfaction form Porsche Cars GB is like plucking hens teeth. I have nothing but negative outcomes from them in 20+years. I regret to say that naming and shaming in the public domain may be the only way to get some satisfaction - albeit in a personal way, as I doubt they will own up to the RMS/IMS fault that you and many others before you have.

Roy, my Indie looking into this PCGB 'approved' fix..... and reporting back to me as silicone was found after the removal of my gearbox & it has only ever had OPC's carrying out work on it..... Re Legal Advice.... are you an AA Member as they have a team ( AA Legal Services ) who advise on ALL motoring issues: 0845 850 1130 Hth Paul

Having dabbled in legal work mots car companies will not recall unless forced to due to costs. Porsche is no different as they would be inundated with claims and if replaced and issues arise they would be accountable as well. The only way is to for a large number of people to take a class action and numerous cases. each case cost porsche money to defend - as per any manufacturer its all about profit margins

Thanks Kasspa, I have emergency cover as part of my car policy will check who with. When you had your box dropped was it because of a leak, and did the Indi say anything about this approved fix? Thanks Roy

I guess that Silicone is an approved medium as lots of car builders use liquid gaskets but by means of compression between two surfaces. Not smeared into a hole?. Thats just incompetent workmanship and not how they designed it it the first place. So unless they have a service bulletin for it they have to do it with a seal as thats the repair procedure. Just demand them to put it in writing that Porsche procedure is to fix your leaking IMS seal with silicone. See how keen and committed they are to put it in writing.

Roy, I had signs of a leak, had ££'s so decided to get it sorted..... saving myself +£400 from OPC.... My Indie Tech used to work for OPC Silverstone so is making enquiries.... Will update you if I hear anything. Regards Paul

[ ] Sorry to hear of your problems, but I would move it on while it still has some warranty left on it, preferably trade it in for an Audi and preferably an Audi dealer who is part of a group which includes a Porsche dealer. IMHO you will get no sympathy from any of the media as you deserve trouble as you're Porsche owner and therefore a "rich git"Now you see why they lost the war - too arrogant to accept that they make mistakes! You could try demonstrating outside the OPC - I have found that direct action can focus the minds, but it can be a bit embarrassing - I've not tried this with Porsche though! Good Luck.

as RH said if fixed by OPC and under warranty they should fix it again (up to 2 years) take it to another OPC,contact manager ask for compensation for your lost time tell them taking to watchdog/trading standards autocrat etc. I got £1000 comp after i complained about the number of faults with my BMW motorbike (mots under warranty) but costing me days off work

My understanding is that repairs done under the Porsche warranty are only covered for the remaining time of the warranty, which in my case is until the end of this year.....have been promised that a letter is on its way from Porsche confirming that applying silicone to the ims seal is an approved application..I wonder!!

And a reference for the advising service bulletin for that method of IMS seal repair. Not just a letter approving the use of Silicon!.

I cannot believe that this is a genuine engineering solution to a known problem. Just imagine what could happen if the silicon broke down or excess silicon got into the oilways and they became blocked! !!!! Sound like a back street bodge to me. I will take some convincing that this is approved by Porsche AG.

I can't believe I have read this, I wouldn't dream of doing any thing like this and considering it a repair on any of my vehicles. How on earth can Porsche tech's justify it? I suspect it is to keep people going under warranty so that they do not have to foot a big bill. After all, a warranty is much the same as insurance, a money making exercise for the most. I've used liquid gasket on sumps and intake manifolds before along with the OE gasket to hold it in place and provide a better contact on surfaces, but smearing silicone in something like that sounds much like something you would do to the weather strip on your back door, not a precision engine! I wish I could be of more use, but I would try to gather facts and contact Porsche to find it this really is an 'approved' fix. I suspect the only capacity this would be used in is in a temporary fix situation while the parts are sourced and time is scheduled to resolve the issue. Anyhow, good luck with getting it sorted.

I talked to 3 of the techies from my local Porsche Centre last night regarding the use of silicone sealant. They just looked at each other and laughed, thought I was joking! Apparently there is a silicone lubricant used to aid insertion of the seal but that is all. They had seen cars with all sorts of crap daubed around the seal in a desperate measure to stop leaks. They had also seen screwdriver dings in the casing, which others had used as a removing tool!

why cant they just use the turbo engine without the turbo?

Is there a known engineering solution to IMS leaks?. The OPC/PCGB say that the area into which the seal fits is fine, with no ovality or other defects. From what I have been able to gather the problem could be where the seal fits into the casing as there is a joint between the bottom and top of the crank case! (not sure if that is the right term). Anyone have a drawing of the IMS area. It will be interesting to see what the letter says

No drawings, I'm afraid, but here is a photo - with the intermediate shaft support removed:

And one with the support being re-fitted: (Courtesy of flat6innovations.com)

And here is the diagram from the parts lists. which shows the seal:

Thank you Richard, this does help make things clearer for me

there are several people who replace the IMS with stronger bearings (LN ceramic) . Its not cheap mine was 1750 at autofarm (more for C4 tip) but i can gets easy for next 48K miles. You can install a IMS guardian £300 +install+vat which advises when a failure is imminent or take the risk......depends how much of a gambler your are lots of links on here , 911uk etc

This info is well documented. This Is why I asked you have your changed your oil and torn your filter apart?. It is the first thing I would do. What causes excessive bearing wear? well we would all like to know that? My guess would be shafts that don't spin true. But thats just my guess there would be several other!. All you need to know about your IMS

My oil and filter was checked and was OK.

Is it possible to remove the filter to check for debris without draining all the oil ?

No, but there is no reason why you cannot drain it into a clean container, filter it, and re-use it.

@Greenslade, Just to clarify?. Did you see the filter and did you take it apart because I doubt OPC wouldn't bother. And I would want to see for myself.