981 Cayman at Spa - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Just home from the RMA two day event at Spa Francochamps, not really a great circuit to show off the Cayman's prowess, it's just lacking in power. I realise it's half the price of a GT3, but it's a little disappointing to see how the Cayman is completely demolished by all GT3 variants, not only in straight line performance but also in grip, but it's got relatively small tyres too. It's still a great car, but for my twilight years of track day driving it needs a substantial power boost . Very frustrating to think that it's all there in the car now, but for some software and throttle body ?

I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later. the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-) put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29

mrdemon said: I don't have issues & your corner speed should be faster and your braking later all good ones

mrdemon said: I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later. the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-) put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29 What tyres and pressures you run for road work Mr D? I have the o/e michelins on presently and 2.2 bar. It is a bit skittish on poor b roads. Thinking of lowering pressure a tad to start with.

mrdemon said: I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later. the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-) put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29 Mmm.. Well I suppose if you say it enough times people may believe you Old Boy.

Thanks Mr.Demon, maybe I need some help from you on the driving front ? I've driven it at Donington, where it was really excellent, but the brakes ( steel ) got very noisy after seven or eight laps, at Brands Hatch Indy, again excellent, Circuit de Bretagne, again excellent, and strangely it feels great on Silverstone GP, but the long climb at Spa really tells. At Spa I ran on the OEM fit 20" Pirelli and also some 18" Toyo 888's, which initially seemed excellent but quickly appeared to "go off". The point of my post was really to say what a shame that latent power can't be liberated, but no doubt given time the tuners will get around the software lock ?

Base 981 or S out of interest?

Sorry, yes an S, with PDK.

Pirelli go off after about 1 lap and with oem camber you prob bent back the outter tred. The 888 is a old tyres now, I am moving to cup2 next year :-) The S with PDK is a fast car but with the BHp at 320 above 100mph the larger bhp cars do really pull away on the straights. Don't get scared of the GT3 banter here as on a smaller track they will be having issues vs yours, the euro gt3 hard core boys don't run stock gt3’s. Most running big camber and cups. And a lot running trick shocks. I run RS 29 pads also which feel great and on the road in my R run 30/31 psi I don't track the R though but still run no front toe and neg -1.2 front camber. Also I would fit motel 660 for track. And up he camber to -1.8 if a road car or -2.5 if more a track car. The Pirelli are really bad for track they just over heat. Your car prob a bit quicker than a 996 or even a 997.1 gt3 to 90mph with PDK and it will hold more mid corner speed. spa is a fun visit but def a GT3 track. That's a gts with stock s t tyres and no camber vs a gt3 with a good set up and better tyres. Gts would have won with camber and tyres. At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which are not so great on the road. a lot of GT3 are so track set up they turn up on trailers which imo is daft. http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/292816/... lets hope the GT4/new R gets the BHP the car can use. :-) Edited by mrdemon on Thursday 25th September 08:33

mrdemon said: At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which fail on the road. That's your opinion based on your experience with a GT3. My opinion based on my experience with a Cayman was it is comparatively dull and bland on the road. Each to their own.

s_mcneil said: That's your opinion based on your experience with a GT3. My opinion based on my experience with a Cayman was it is comparatively dull and bland on the road. Each to their own. I did change my comment but too late it seems lol Spa is a GT3 track and prob the best track for a GT3, Silverstone is also a power track now. I do wonder how GT3 owners get to love their cars on the road, it was one of the most frustrating car owner ship buys I have had. Loved the car hated the way it was just not accessible, every drive was total frustration, where in the R most drives are fun and exciting. there are more and more ex GT3 owner who drives R's now and will agree with me. I even look at GT3 adds and want another and then have to think long and hard why I sold mine and it puts me right off owning another. Cayman dull. not a chance, it's one of the best on road driver cars you can buy in R form. if not "THE BEST"

mrdemon said: At the end of the day we run road cars and have a laugh on track, the gt3 boys have track cars which are not so great on the road. In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me! MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!

V8KSN said: In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me! MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!

ravon said: Just home from the RMA two day event at Spa Francochamps, not really a great circuit to show off the Cayman's prowess, it's just lacking in power. I realise it's half the price of a GT3, but it's a little disappointing to see how the Cayman is completely demolished by all GT3 variants, not only in straight line performance but also in grip, but it's got relatively small tyres too. It's still a great car, but for my twilight years of track day driving it needs a substantial power boost . Very frustrating to think that it's all there in the car now, but for some software and throttle body ? Sorry to hear that - I was there on Monday driving my 996 RS and having go's in a pals 964 RS. what a glorious day it was, and some proper kit on the track. I've driven a Cayman S round Spa before, and a Boxster spyder. agree both were not ideally suited to this circuit, simply not fast enough and too composed in the high speed corners to be much fun. sounds like you have a hankering for a GT3, go for it, I doubt you'll regret the decision. Also whilst a few people trailer their GT3's to the circuit, I don't as I find it a perfectly habitable road car as well, especially for long distance use. I run standard Pilot Sport tyres, not CUPs, as I don't want to worry about aquaplaning off Belgium autoroutes. Drove home from Spa in 5 hours and was perfectly refreshed when I got out. And on the circuit, it's unbelievably exciting, no other road car competes in my experience.

While I agree it is a great track for GT3s I don't think it's necessary to have a GT3 to enjoy it. Spa is now an annual trip for our 964 bunch. We don't go anywhere near as fast but I'll wager we have just as much fun. Spa is track day nirvana that drags us back again and again. There's certainly no shortage in interest

981s are quick cars, not fast cars. You're never going to reach the speed of light in a car that weight with 320 bhp. Mind you, the PDK box can get them shifting up the road pretty smartly! Much quicker in the real world than my manual car.

mrdemon said: V8KSN said: In the interest of balance for anyone reading this thread, I have just done 2700 odd miles across Europe on the ROAD in a 997.1 GT3 and it was GREAT fun with a LOT of laughs! The car was (and is) perfect for me! MrDemon, we all know you dont like GT3's, its getting quite boring now!

boxsey said: While I agree it is a great track for GT3s I don't think it's necessary to have a GT3 to enjoy it. Spa is now an annual trip for our 964 bunch. We don't go anywhere near as fast but I'll wager we have just as much fun. Spa is track day nirvana that drags us back again and again. There's certainly no shortage in interest On the weekend I spotted a yellow 964 like on the left of this photo, around the Brands Hatch/Kent area.

mrdemon said: That's a gts with stock s t tyres and no camber vs a gt3 with a good set up and better tyres. Gts would have won with camber and tyres. http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackdayvideos/292816/... While taking nothing away from how impressive the Cayman's performance in the video is, the owner of the GT3 has the car set up for his own preferences and not for ultimate pace, as was discussed in the thread about this evo video. Heaven forbid that the video be just a bit of fun. For more objective nerd factor there was an interesting feature by a US magazine comparing a Cayman R and GT3 and the whole rear-engined vs mid-engined thing.

braddo said: On the weekend I spotted a yellow 964 like on the left of this photo, around the Brands Hatch/Kent area. Braddo, probably one and the same. It's actually a 964RS and he lives down that way.

Can't be many in that colour.

[quote=boxsey]While I agree it is a great track for GT3s I don't think it's necessary to have a GT3 to enjoy it. Spa is now an annual trip for our 964 bunch. We don't go anywhere near as fast but I'll wager we have just as much fun. Spa is track day nirvana that drags us back again and again. There's certainly no shortage in interest Definitely I was there in my 986S a few weeks ago - had a fantastic day. May be a bit pedestrian up Kemmel but that's not the main reason to go to Spa. Someone said on this thread that they are boring as not so mobile in faster corners - I'm quite happy with that through Pouhon and Blanchimont - they are exciting enough corners for me already

ravon said: Just home from the RMA two day event at Spa Francochamps, not really a great circuit to show off the Cayman's prowess, it's just lacking in power. I realise it's half the price of a GT3, but it's a little disappointing to see how the Cayman is completely demolished by all GT3 variants, not only in straight line performance but also in grip, but it's got relatively small tyres too. It's still a great car, but for my twilight years of track day driving it needs a substantial power boost . Very frustrating to think that it's all there in the car now, but for some software and throttle body ? But did you have fun? My wife did and I promise she didn't use all the horses all the time. I am sure my car would be faster with sticky tyres, Alcon brakes and trick suspension bits but would it be as fun? Personal choice and all that. For a track day I like it stock.

squirejo said: But did you have fun? My wife did and I promise she didn't use all the horses all the time. I am sure my car would be faster with sticky tyres, Alcon brakes and trick suspension bits but would it be as fun? Personal choice and all that. For a track day I like it stock. Good to meet you Monday. Still in awe of a husband and wife going to spa and taking turns driving. Very cool. seawise said: Sorry to hear that - I was there on Monday driving my 996 RS and having go's in a pals 964 RS. what a glorious day it was, and some proper kit on the track. I've driven a Cayman S round Spa before, and a Boxster spyder. agree both were not ideally suited to this circuit, simply not fast enough and too composed in the high speed corners to be much fun. sounds like you have a hankering for a GT3, go for it, I doubt you'll regret the decision. Also whilst a few people trailer their GT3's to the circuit, I don't as I find it a perfectly habitable road car as well, especially for long distance use. I run standard Pilot Sport tyres, not CUPs, as I don't want to worry about aquaplaning off Belgium autoroutes. Drove home from Spa in 5 hours and was perfectly refreshed when I got out. And on the circuit, it's unbelievably exciting, no other road car competes in my experience. Hey...I did not realise that was you. Would have popped over to say hi. We were in garage 12. The 996 RS did look sweet.

anonymous said: [redacted] this. I don't drive my 7.2 RS anywhere as well as I drive my CR or spider on track. It's just a harder car to know given my skill level whereas the CR /spyder, you just get in and you can drive the pants off them. Doesn't mean the Gt3 is s te, but you definitely have to work to get the best out of them. Anyone can drive a cayman, the Gt3 is another matter. When it clicks it's sublime. I mean seriously a 2.7 cayman is too fast for our roads....................

LaSource said: Hey...I did not realise that was you. Would have popped over to say hi. We were in garage 12. The 996 RS did look sweet. cheers, I was in garage 36 with a red 964 RS and a blue 911 bitza.

HokumPokum said: I mean seriously a 2.7 cayman is too fast for our roads.................... Certainly more than fast enough most of the time. Simple solution for the OP is that if you want to go quick on track, and have an enjoyable road car; have one of each. You can get a tasty 2007-8 Cayman for £15-18k these days. Spend the difference on a track car like an Radical SR3RS (for example). Any road going Porsche after this will seem slow, soft and unfocused. If that doesn't get your adrenaline going on track, nothing will.

Or if affordable, buy one of each, make up your own mind, keep the one that works for you and sell the other one. In the current market, you will not lose anything...and will probably make a small profit...plus it will be a much more enjoyable journey.

mrdemon said: I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later. the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-) put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29 I once followed you around Donington at a TD for a few laps while I warmed everything up. I can confirm the reason you don't have grip issues is because you drive like old people f**k....slooooooooowly

that's me slow and safe ;-) I have to spend most of my time looking in my mirrors letting people past :-)

mrdemon said: I don't have issues with grip and your corner speed should be faster and your braking later. the straights are long though and only bhp can over come that it is a GT3 circuit though, and at last they can use their long ratio's :-) put some camber on it and a set of cup 2's and then see if they can stay with you at cadwell park. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 24th September 21:29 Did anyone ever see that episode of Noddy where Noddy and Big ears try to build a house ? As i remember it Noddy enthusiastically lays out the plan and reckons its best to start with the roof. Of course he doesnt really understand gravity or the need for roof supports so the whole thing just collapses before they can even begin to build the rest. The whole town laughs and Noddy looks down shamefully at the floor, a little rouged in the face and promising himself that in future he will leave things that he knows nothing about to the experts.

jackal said: Did anyone ever see that episode of Noddy where Noddy and Big ears try to build a house ? As i remember it Noddy enthusiastically lays out the plan and reckons its best to start with the roof. Of course he doesnt really understand gravity or the need for roof supports so the whole thing just collapses before they can even begin to build the rest. The whole town laughs and Noddy looks down shamefully at the floor, a little rouged in the face and promising himself that in future he will leave things that he knows nothing about to the experts. That made me chuckle

jackal said: Did anyone ever see that episode of Noddy where Noddy and Big ears try to build a house ? As i remember it Noddy enthusiastically lays out the plan and reckons its best to start with the roof. Of course he doesnt really understand gravity or the need for roof supports so the whole thing just collapses before they can even begin to build the rest. The whole town laughs and Noddy looks down shamefully at the floor, a little rouged in the face and promising himself that in future he will leave things that he knows nothing about to the experts. No never saw it.

jackal said: Did anyone ever see that episode of Noddy where Noddy and Big ears try to build a house ? As i remember it Noddy enthusiastically lays out the plan and reckons its best to start with the roof. Of course he doesnt really understand gravity or the need for roof supports so the whole thing just collapses before they can even begin to build the rest. The whole town laughs and Noddy looks down shamefully at the floor, a little rouged in the face and promising himself that in future he will leave things that he knows nothing about to the experts. You're showing your age there dude. Sadly, though, I remember it too.

Why do elephants have big ears? Because Noddy wouldn't pay the ransom. Badum, and indeed, tish. I like these kinds of threads 'cos I'm s t at driving no matter if my car is of the flattering type or not...

I like the "I am s t driver posts also" because if some one calls me s t slow and I agree, There is never anything to lose ;-) and people might leave me alone to do what I like next track day rather than wait till I go out, follow me and try at all costs to get by.

If you think Mr Demon is slow, which he isn't really (just safe), you should check out a chap called XJ Flyer who posts a lot in General Gassing. He posts videos of himself driving in races in which old Jags go around a track at Sunday pootle pace. I don't know whether the lack of speed is caused more by the old cars or the old people, but it's quite funny to watch if you are used to seeing any and all douche bags with a dual clutch modern sports car driving actually quite fast. I expect an older 911 would be a hoot on track.

No, too many people have owned and sold on for it just to be me. Also too many ex gt3 owners now drive R's You cannot get the best from a GT3 on the road and that's frustrating.

And there is the million dollar quote " for those who can". It's not possible even if your name is lewis, even at 70% it's reckless, So again yes at Spa or silverstone amazing I bet, in the UK , no thanks So that's where some people seem happy with the ownership. Some times the owner ship takes over, I would feel like That with a Ferrari. Edited by mrdemon on Friday 26th September 22:33

anonymous said: [redacted] People do annihilate the speed limits, are you just posting to look legal and good ? You are now talking utter gibberish or are very Naive. ffs it's a stupid thread if you have not lived with one.

If we are talking 996 GT3s had 2 a Mk 1 and a Mk 2 now have a Cayman R it is a much better road car yes not as quick in a straight line drag but how many of us do that. The Cayman R is really a awsome Porsche i have owned 10 and its the best road Porsche to date love it to bits and its a keeper. Out of the 2 GT s the. Mk 1 was the best for me except the 4 pot front brakes but did like the Mk 1 I guess like all cars the later GT3s have better road manners. Cayman R for me all the way.

tracydeedance said: If we are talking 996 GT3s had 2 a Mk 1 and a Mk 2 now have a Cayman R it is a much better road car yes not as quick in a straight line drag but how many of us do that. The Cayman R is really a awsome Porsche i have owned 10 and its the best road Porsche to date love it to bits and its a keeper. Out of the 2 GT s the. Mk 1 was the best for me except the 4 pot front brakes but did like the Mk 1 I guess like all cars the later GT3s have better road manners. Cayman R for me all the way. 10!?

Sorry meant to say 10 Porsches various models.

So which would you rather drive in the wet ? GT3 or Cayman ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I All the cayman lacks is POWER -- particularly up the Kemmel straight where it will max out at 130 mph. But it will handle 125mph and a brake after the kerb at the bottom of Eau Rouge ...

^^^^^ I've driven hundreds of laps around Spa but don't recognise any the corners in the vid.....

That's because that's a very wet Donnigton --- as the vid says. But the stats are definitely Spa

ChrisW. said: That's because that's a very wet Donnigton --- as the vid says. But the stats are definitely Spa No s**t Sherlock....

ChrisW. said: So which would you rather drive in the wet ? GT3 or Cayman ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I All the cayman lacks is POWER -- particularly up the Kemmel straight where it will max out at 130 mph. But it will handle 125mph and a brake after the kerb at the bottom of Eau Rouge ... I'd have thought a new cayman would be a bit quicker - My 986S was showing an indicated 130 before braking at the end of the straight (or at least when I got a good run through Eau Rouge) - about 5-7mph less with the roof down. out of interest - why would you brake after the kerb? Only been there a couple of times but I've been told to get the speed off before turning in to that kerb.

ChrisW. said: So which would you rather drive in the wet ? GT3 or Cayman ?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I All the cayman lacks is POWER -- particularly up the Kemmel straight where it will max out at 130 mph. But it will handle 125mph and a brake after the kerb at the bottom of Eau Rouge ... Gt3 every time,its not that wet is it!

edh said: I'd have thought a new cayman would be a bit quicker - My 986S was showing an indicated 130 before braking at the end of the straight (or at least when I got a good run through Eau Rouge) - about 5-7mph less with the roof down. out of interest - why would you brake after the kerb? Only been there a couple of times but I've been told to get the speed off before turning in to that kerb. edh....a few factors to consider like experience, confidence, car capability but generally with the right combination turn into Eau Rouge is easy flat, dab of brake after the kerb trailing into Radillon then immediately back on the throttle hopefully still pointing the right way and in one piece. It's the fastest way through that section of track unless you have massive aero... By the laws of internet forums someone will be along to disagree shortly..... Edited by kbooker on Monday 29th September 14:51 Edited by kbooker on Monday 29th September 14:52

I'll beat them to it:- "Brakes are for road driving and stopping at the end of a session. WOT until you hit a wall. Rinse and repeat until home time".

^^^^^^

kbooker said: edh said: I'd have thought a new cayman would be a bit quicker - My 986S was showing an indicated 130 before braking at the end of the straight (or at least when I got a good run through Eau Rouge) - about 5-7mph less with the roof down. out of interest - why would you brake after the kerb? Only been there a couple of times but I've been told to get the speed off before turning in to that kerb. edh....a few factors to consider like experience, confidence, car capability but generally with the right combination turn into Eau Rouge is easy flat, dab of brake after the kerb trailing into Radillon then immediately back on the throttle hopefully still pointing the right way and in one piece. It's the fastest way through that section of track unless you have massive aero... By the laws of internet forums someone will be along to disagree shortly..... OK interesting... but if you can take the bottom bend that much quicker, shouldn't your terminal speed be higher than 130? I'm taking a conservative trackday approach - slow in, on the power early - which seems to give the car much more stability as you clip the RH curb on the way up the hill. Maybe I'll give it a go next year (...maybe in my 944, which is a bit slower than the 986)

We watched the GT racing (Spa 600km's) there a few weeks back - the V12 Aston was absolutely flying through there. It looked fantastic. There was a huge difference in speeds between cars, and between the different drivers in each car (Pro & Am I guess).