991 GT3 Tractive dampers - feedback? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Does anyone in this parish use Tractive dampers on their GT3? I have a 70 road/30 track split on my GT3 and I need some new front dampers due to them developing some play so considering doing the Tractive update. I'm impressed with the DSC controller since I've installed it but concerned about longevity with the Tractive dampers. The OEM Bilsteins have only lasted 25k so the bar has been set quite low already.

Babw said: Does anyone in this parish use Tractive dampers on their GT3? I have a 70 road/30 track split on my GT3 and I need some new front dampers due to them developing some play so considering doing the Tractive update. I'm impressed with the DSC controller since I've installed it but concerned about longevity with the Tractive dampers. The OEM Bilsteins have only lasted 25k so the bar has been set quite low already. I have them on a 997 - based on what I know from others directly, even though they have been good (lifter apart which has had a few wobbles) and are a good bit better than OEM in my experience, the reliability aspect of things and factory support is such that I couldn't in good faith recommend anyone to do the same tbh.

Tractives respond more quickly than Bilsteins so better match with DSC box

Technology is a good concept. Support and getting it to actually work with your car is another thing. I know a few people have had a play across a few different platforms… trying to get shock valving and spring rates correct along with map calibration either via DSC or now with the standalone brain, and then there is general durability. Some have had success, some decided to just go back to a more traditional route such as a proper passive damper or just returned to OEM solutions. That said… with proper time money and focus it can work. I know even some manufacturers have adopted it.. including Pagani on the new Utopia.

isaldiri said: I have them on a 997 - based on what I know from others directly, even though they have been good (lifter apart which has had a few wobbles) and are a good bit better than OEM in my experience, the reliability aspect of things and factory support is such that I couldn't in good faith recommend anyone to do the same tbh. Can you elaborate on the reliability?

Babw said: isaldiri said: I have them on a 997 - based on what I know from others directly, even though they have been good (lifter apart which has had a few wobbles) and are a good bit better than OEM in my experience, the reliability aspect of things and factory support is such that I couldn't in good faith recommend anyone to do the same tbh. Can you elaborate on the reliability? https://911uk.com/threads/gen-ii-c2s-suspension-upgrades-dsc-tractive.120380/ Want to go the active damper route with your GT3 ? Speak to Nitron or Litchfield, I’m sure they’d be willing to build you a set of dampers : https://www.litchfieldmotors.com/porsche/911-2-car...

Very interesting reading, the "digital" feeling from the chassis after fitting these is a big turn off and I'm more tempted to stay with the OEM stuff now. Having tried various high end coilovers on different cars in the past from JRZ, AST and Nitron, the longevity was not impressive when you started using the all year around through the British winter. I was hoping the Tractive would be like an OEM+ but alas saved some money.

Key question to consider is… does your car have FAL? And do you want to retain the functionality? As this will have an impact on viable options.

Yeah, have FAL and definitely want to retain that functionality. I think I was just a bit pissed off about having Porsche warranty and having a front shock starting to fail at 25k miles. I find the ride and body control well judged so don't mind going for the OEM dampers again. In the meantime Bilstein got back to stating that, they can indeed rebuild the original dampers so I'll get my current dampers rebuilt and keep them as spares.

Babw said: Can you elaborate on the reliability? there have been at least 3 different people I know who have run into problems with their dampers from tractive (build quality and i forgot exactly what else) and despite a lot of effort being put in by the respective UK garages who had ordered/fitted them, the OE factory had proven unwilling or unable to get them sorted and none of the 3 are currently still using them. It seems to be somewhat batch related to be fair as my car for example has run perfectly well (lift aside but I generally distrust the damn lifters anyway) and performance wise the tractives were far better than OEM (with DSC or otherwise) as have others but it seems to be with little rhyme and rhytmn as to how or why they can go wrong. fwiw, I'd probably suggest the Bilstein damptronics (B16s iirc...?) as a potential upgrade if you were really keen on sticking with the electronic adjustment route as they are pretty tried and tested or stump for something well setup on passives (but it can be a bit of a rabbit hole getting into just how much you're happy to be spending on said dampers too....)

I remember trying to be persuaded to fit on my hillclimber,as they will improve grip,cornering ,acceleration etc,i said great if they do all this,supply me a set and if they do all you say i will buy them,funny enough they did not take me up on my offer. High end dampers do require rebuilds to keep tip top.

Yellow491 said: I remember trying to be persuaded to fit on my hillclimber,as they will improve grip,cornering ,acceleration etc,i said great if they do all this,supply me a set and if they do all you say i will buy them,funny enough they did not take me up on my offer. High end dampers do require rebuilds to keep tip top. You should try them. They'll improve your hill climbing times for sure https://tractivesuspension.com/sponsorshipbytracti...

Yellow491 said: I remember trying to be persuaded to fit on my hillclimber,as they will improve grip,cornering ,acceleration etc,i said great if they do all this,supply me a set and if they do all you say i will buy them,funny enough they did not take me up on my offer. So your 'offer' was for a free set until such a time as you were happy to pay for them. Very generous of you.

James Watt replaced condensation engines with his valved steam engines in exchange for a percentage of the fuel savings .... and became very wealthy. Tractive clearly didn't have the confidence to match their words ...

TracTive need a bit more looking after ie servicing every 2 years or 24k miles and for the improved performance especially on heavier moderns worth every penny both on crappy UK roads and if also if lap times are your bag IMO. For every average review I've heard 10 good reviews including my own amazing experience with them especially with both low and high speed mid corner when there are a few bumps to navigate stability is other worldly and very confidence inspiring. https://911uk.com/threads/tractive-suspension.1172...

I have absolutely no quibble with the way they perform. Especially on the road, the ability to soak up a poor road surface is excellent and nearly on par with a good set of passives. I do have some concerns on the reliability of the things though and the factory so far has not proven very confidence inspiring in terms of getting 'bad' dampers sorted when there are clearly manufacturing faults. Which is a real shame imo as the product performance can't be faulted so it's always a shame when the other (equally important) factors aren't there as well.....

For transparency I've had a few small niggles but nothing that was a manufacturing fault or that would put me off the product itself which as you say is pretty good and certainly performs significantly better than OEM. https://911uk.com/threads/tractive-suspension.1172... Ruf and Pagani have been using TracTive on CTR Anniversary, CTR 3 EVO and Utopia respectively. Many 911 restomod companies offering them as an optional extra too nowadays. One would hope with high end manufacturers speccing these that any manufacturing issues which I also heard about and which I believe were caused by CV19 now sorted. A passive damper can not in my experience give a heavy 911 like say a modern or new 911 turbo weighing say 1600 kgs to 1750kgs (without driver and passenger) an s class like ride above 30mph on road and GT like handling on track. On a light car I'd agree passive is better but even here there are some new ultra light weight car manufacturers who don't even use anti roll bars using TracTive I know of. Out of interest what manufacturing issue have you had on yours?

I have a super series McLaren with the hydraulic linked suspension and I can’t imagine Tractive dampers are as effective as those? Quite a few reviews state that at low speed they’re quite firm riding but just round off the edges. I don’t know if just good low speed compression would lead to a very compliant ride?

Babw said: I have a super series McLaren with the hydraulic linked suspension and I can’t imagine Tractive dampers are as effective as those? Quite a few reviews state that at low speed they’re quite firm riding but just round off the edges. I don’t know if just good low speed compression would lead to a very compliant ride? Define 'effective'. How 'firm' suspension feels is quite an individual thing tbh as well as different people have different thresholds as to what would be firm. The tractives don't feel like a hydraulic suspension McLaren (which may or may not be an advantage to some) but equally, they made travelling quickly on a country road with bad surfaces astonishing easy and definitely more confidence inspiring than OE. If your benchmark 'comfort' is something like the Mclaren in normal mode then it's probably not going to be quite that comfortable when pootling around though.

isaldiri said: Define 'effective'. How 'firm' suspension feels is quite an individual thing tbh as well as different people have different thresholds as to what would be firm. The tractives don't feel like a hydraulic suspension McLaren (which may or may not be an advantage to some) but equally, they made travelling quickly on a country road with bad surfaces astonishing easy and definitely more confidence inspiring than OE. If your benchmark 'comfort' is something like the Mclaren in normal mode then it's probably not going to be quite that comfortable when pootling around though. Have you needed to get yours rebuilt yet @Isaldiri? How long have you owned them? I don't think I want Mclaren hydraulic levels of dampening with a GT3, I don't think it's in keeping with the nature of the GT3. What ideally I wanted was the adjustability but as reliable as OEM which I don't think I'm going to get however I should say that I have a set of KW V3 coilovers on a car and they've been on there for at least 9 years, they are in perfect condition. I know the V4 kit which is similar to what Manthey use is available but for my use spending 10 figures on new dampers is pointless.

Babw said: Have you needed to get yours rebuilt yet @Isaldiri? How long have you owned them? I don't think I want Mclaren hydraulic levels of dampening with a GT3, I don't think it's in keeping with the nature of the GT3. What ideally I wanted was the adjustability but as reliable as OEM which I don't think I'm going to get however I should say that I have a set of KW V3 coilovers on a car and they've been on there for at least 9 years, they are in perfect condition. I know the V4 kit which is similar to what Manthey use is available but for my use spending 10 figures on new dampers is pointless. No rebuild needed (checked earlier this year and all fine apparently) but tbf, I regretfully haven't done all that many miles since they went on in April22 either. Probably about 6-7 trackdays since that's all? On reliability, as I said, my own car has been perfectly fine apart from the lifter being quite iffy at least a few times when it refused to come down properly (these days I just try my damndest never to use it). However, what I do know of some cars that had the tractives which were problematic (and not just the lift) leaves me a bit wary of recommending anyone else to try them unless they were willing to take a greater chance than I personally would be wanting to. P.S I don't mean to be annoying but are the mclaren hydraulic suspension accumulators any more reliable/lasting than they used to be.....?

A few more owners reviews. The occasional twang has been fixed with a rubber decoupler between main spring and helper spring. https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-gt2rs-an... https://911uk.com/threads/tractive-suspension-upgr... As an intermediate step maybe stay stock and try the DSC controller for now.

I already have the DSC controller installed, I wouldn't say it's a significant change but the normal and sport chassis settings seem to have a bigger delta. I think anyone with a multiple car garage will understand the need to keep things as simple as possible, I choose OEM PCCB, CCM always to reduce the amount of brake component changes needed so the complexity isn't necessarily the thing that puts me off but for some reason I presumed the Touring dampers were an OEM replacement with similar service intervals. Servicing my suspension every few thousand miles is not something I'm willing to compromise on at all. The Mclaren accumulators did indeed need replacing and I went with the V Engineering refillable option; again to improve the service intervals. I would be interested to try a car with Tractives on one day soon just to see what the hype is about. I remember the first time I tried a Mclaren with the hydraulic suspension and I was blown away. I did West London to North Wales on Saturday with one fuel stop and the ride of the Mclaren still boggles the mind but I can't imagine the GT3 with the same ride because in some ways the GT3 is a much more immediate and compromised car so I wouldn't want to over complicate that natural balance it has.

Babw said: I already have the DSC controller installed, I wouldn't say it's a significant change but the normal and sport chassis settings seem to have a bigger delta. I think anyone with a multiple car garage will understand the need to keep things as simple as possible, I choose OEM PCCB, CCM always to reduce the amount of brake component changes needed so the complexity isn't necessarily the thing that puts me off but for some reason I presumed the Touring dampers were an OEM replacement with similar service intervals. Servicing my suspension every few thousand miles is not something I'm willing to compromise on at all. The Mclaren accumulators did indeed need replacing and I went with the V Engineering refillable option; again to improve the service intervals. I would be interested to try a car with Tractives on one day soon just to see what the hype is about. I remember the first time I tried a Mclaren with the hydraulic suspension and I was blown away. I did West London to North Wales on Saturday with one fuel stop and the ride of the Mclaren still boggles the mind but I can't imagine the GT3 with the same ride because in some ways the GT3 is a much more immediate and compromised car so I wouldn't want to over complicate that natural balance it has. Ah ok - well good to know there is another way to sort the hydraulic accumulators than paying the (rather extortionate) factory cost of replacement as I don't believe they are now covered under warranty ( I was lucky enough to have got mine done under the extended warranty but remember being told that had changed some years back....) Back on topic re tractives though - I'm not really sure there is that much 'hype' per se. They are just imo another option amongst the (many) suspension options available at different price points - whether or not in performance they necessarily are 'better' for the same price than another is harder to say. What I can honestly say now is that although their performance has been very good as I noted above, knowing what I know, I wouldn't have taken the punt on them if I were doing it again that's all. IMI A clearly is just somewhat more evangelical about how good they are - good to know people have different opinions I suppose....

Which other damper would you consider instead of OEM knowing what you now know about the Tractive?

Babw said: Which other damper would you consider instead of OEM knowing what you now know about the Tractive? Exe-TC or Ohlins. Exe-TC is a brilliant product (used on the Singer DLS and multiple winner of the WRC with Citroen) but my experience of dealing with them was less than exemplary. Others who have considerably more clout, have experienced the same woeful customer service/lead times. If you want a contact for an individual who will supply and build you a proper set of bespoke Ohlins TTX’s for your car, PM me. I’m also hearing good things about MCS in the States, and Tuthills are using them on their 911K builds to great effect. https://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/ My money would be spent with Ohlins, they’re the gold standard literally and figuratively.

Babw said: Which other damper would you consider instead of OEM knowing what you now know about the Tractive? I would go with Ohlins but TTX rather than road and track (albeit at somewhat greater cost tbf). A friend had A-workx in germany put them on his 997.1 gt3 rs some years ago and that car was just absolutely mega. P.S as slippy has also said per above - they are imo anyway, the benchmark for a 'good' damper as long as it's being setup properly for you as well.

Only issue is that I dont think Ohlins support FAL that the OP would like to retain. Other than that I’d also say go Ohlins. You might need to check if 991.1 FAL is supported as it was then changed for 991.2 and models there after. Here there are Porsche FAL supporting solutions from KW and MCS…

Yeah can't have everything I suppose so it's an easy choice (for me!) to just say goodbye to the front lifter which generally is a bit of a weak link anyway.....

The whole clip worth a watch for GT3 owners but TracTive mentioned from 4.58. Whoever owns that very cool 7 GT3 is building a fantastic hot rod

Babw said: Does anyone in this parish use Tractive dampers on their GT3? I have a 70 road/30 track split on my GT3 and I need some new front dampers due to them developing some play so considering doing the Tractive update. I'm impressed with the DSC controller since I've installed it but concerned about longevity with the Tractive dampers. The OEM Bilsteins have only lasted 25k so the bar has been set quite low already. It was TPC Racing who invented the DSC and collaborated with Tractive, Mike the TPC owner did a lot of racing testing and street testing and after sitting on the fence for a while and lots of emailing I bought probably the first set to the UK around 2014 for fitment to my 997GT2. I opted for a slightly lower rate rear spring than they used on the track. My car has been daily driven and fast Autobahn type driven for maybe 50,000 miles on these and I had a leak on a rear shock a few years back which required a rebuild which was fairly painless, the shocks went back to one of their approved repairers in the UK, took a couple of weeks. Having enjoyed the magic rides of modern set ups like Mclaren 720 it is great to be able to have the 997 to a new level. I used to run the Bilstein PASM shocks which just felt stiff, the Tractives/DSC just give such an incredible ride for road driving and for very fast road driving 200+mph offer stability needed. I had it set up by Suspension Secrets and the grip went up a further level on our cambered bumpy UK roads. TPC now offer Swift Springs as an "upgrade" and Eibach as "standard", they used to just use the Swift and that is what I have and I wonder if they add a bit of magic to the set up. I would email TPC and have a dialogue and go from there. ask them about your model and the DSC tunes they have for it etc. https://www.dscsport.com/product/tractive-dda-991-...

Prototypte Nitrons with FAL. Seem to perform really well. Maybe Weissach worth a call be interesting to know cost? FAL certainly helpful with speed bumps everywhere.