What do-it-all 911, up to £60k-ish - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

It's been an expensive year running a Golf GTI and an Elise (which I'm not using enough to justify keeping really) so I'm thinking of chopping in both for a Porsche. It will be a keeper for a long time hopefully. Realistically it's a 911 or else I'll always have that itch. It needs to fulfil the dual purpose of getting me to work on my 80 mile/day round trip, as well as being fun to use on the twisties at weekends. Will be used year round, in Scotland and plan to have a set of winter wheels/tyres. I'd like to be able to take it to Europe in both summer and winter, and to put skis on the roof if needed. I have use of another vehicle to keep the mileage on the Porsche half-sensible and for especially bad weather Must be a manual Centrelock wheels are a definite no. Sadly this pretty much rules out a 997 GTS which would otherwise be ideal. I don't love the >£700/yr road tax of 997 Turbo and 997.2 4WD possibly better than 2WD but with winter tyres maybe less of a concern I'd really love a 996 GT3 but I fear too raw to use daily and too vulnerable on salty roads? Could get it properly undersealed? Also rapidly disappearing out of reach. Ashgood have a nice looking silver one. I'd consider anything from a 993 to a 991. Definitely prefer the smaller more analogue cars but I guess a 991 benefits from newer tech for daily use, and potentially lower running costs at least initially. £60k budget is not a target; absolute limit is £65. I appreciate there will be lots of potentially suitable options so lived experience along the lines above would be most helpful. Thanks!

Do all 997 Gen 2 models succumb to the £700+ road tax?

blueovercream said: Must be a manual Centrelock wheels are a definite no. 4WD possibly better than 2WD but with winter tyres maybe less of a concern I'd consider anything from a 993 to a 991. £60k budget is not a target; absolute limit is £65. Thanks! Buckets, PCCB, 4WD (as you mentioned) Just improve the Number Plate position - whats not to like - a unicorn spec. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407111... Or to your max £65 budget another 991 unicorn.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410225...

KittyLitter said: Do all 997 Gen 2 models succumb to the £700+ road tax? Right enough - only S/4S. Base Carreras seem to be lower according to Autotrader

KittyLitter said: Buckets, PCCB, 4WD (as you mentioned) Just improve the Number Plate position - whats not to like - a unicorn spec. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407111... Or to your max £65 budget another 991 unicorn.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410225... Both very nice! Unsure about PCCBs, mainly due to cost of replacement if a disc gets chipped or damaged on my commute

This one. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403187...

blueovercream said: It needs to fulfil the dual purpose of getting me to work on my 80 mile/day round trip, as well as being fun to use on the twisties at weekends. Will be used year round, in Scotland and plan to have a set of winter wheels/tyres. How good are your roads for the commute? In fact for both? Where in Scotland? Is it just wet or snowy? Are the roads main roads on the commute always clear of snow etc.? The AWD cars are 95% RWD biased, it only really kicks in when needed. You can make the cars feel more planted, tail happy with different geo. I was always one that had to have RWD, but after owning a C4 was surprised how similar they are, you are hard pushed to tell if you know how to set up your geo. I think with your budget and mileage I would be looking for as late as possible car as possible. The problem is you are doing around 25-30k miles a year by the sounds of it? You maybe better to spend say £40k on a slightly higher mileage car and no worry about depreciation. I just think with £60k you are looking at a low miler, but in 2 years it will be fairly high miles anyway. These cars can put serious miles on them, just the market doesn't seem to realise that. There have been a few early 991s for around £40k recently with 50k miles on them. That would be where my money went. Leaving a slush fund to keep it like new. A £60k 997 is still a 15-20 year old car and could arguably be low mileage and about to need everything changing. I suggest you try a 997 and 991 and see what you think. I have a manual 997 Carrera S and love it, but would happily have a 991, C2 or C4. In fact, my wife keeps saying I should have bought a 991 pdk. I would probably love that just as much. Try them, see what you think.

Ed.Neumann said: How good are your roads for the commute? In fact for both? Where in Scotland? Is it just wet or snowy? Are the roads main roads on the commute always clear of snow etc.? The problem is you are doing around 25-30k miles a year by the sounds of it? Commute is mainly A-road, Edinburgh/Borders and quite high so there's normally at least a few snow days but the roads are generally well gritted and cleared. Weekend use a mixture of everything; I go to the Highlands a fair bit where the "driving" roads are great. I work shifts and thankfully the reality is lower - probably around 12k/year Was thinking along the lines of something with a higher mileage to start with

Get a 100k miles 996 C4 for 12k GBP and spend the rest on cocaine and hookers. Lapis Blue would be a nice colour. Maybe for sale nearer to you than West Sussex or Surrey. No association with any such seller. I'm actually tempted by that. Thrash it every trip - never care about value.

BlackTails said: This one. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403187... /close thread.

Assuming the 2WD is lighter than the AWD I'd go for something of that ilk. They handle well, but are not particularly quick IIRC.

blueovercream said: KittyLitter said: Buckets, PCCB, 4WD (as you mentioned) Just improve the Number Plate position - whats not to like - a unicorn spec. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407111... Or to your max £65 budget another 991 unicorn.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410225... Both very nice! Unsure about PCCBs, mainly due to cost of replacement if a disc gets chipped or damaged on my commute you'll be fine.

BlackTails said: This one. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403187... could that be any blander?

PDK drops a Euro 6 991.1S down to the £400 VED bracket - must admit I didn’t realise it made that much difference.

If you're going to do 400 miles every week, look forward to some considerable running and maintenance costs. I ran a 996GT3 as a daily car for about three years. It was fine for day to day use and I had no worries about rust as it was all undersealed etc etc, but that kind of mileage won't do any good to your pocket.

I had a similar brief and ended up buying a base Carrera PDK 991.1 with all the important options, mint and with OPC warranty for £37k. It now has 83k miles. I do 12k miles per year so I am discounting the mileage "tax" when I factor what I will sell it for, eventually. VED is below £400 for sure.

blueovercream said: Commute is mainly A-road, Edinburgh/Borders and quite high so there's normally at least a few snow days but the roads are generally well gritted and cleared. Weekend use a mixture of everything; I go to the Highlands a fair bit where the "driving" roads are great. I work shifts and thankfully the reality is lower - probably around 12k/year Was thinking along the lines of something with a higher mileage to start with I wouldn't pay more for a 4S then. I would also try a PDK, don't write it off, they are very good and in many ways add as much as a manual does. How far are you from these guys? Might be worth a trip and test drive. You might even like that car. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202409144...

This has just been refreshed for you. Looks fantastic if still for sale with all the major work done. You can use guilt free and depreciation should be minimal. https://911uk.com/threads/993-c4-manual-coupe-non-...

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. To address a couple of the points PDK - I'm really not a fan of the idea. I guess I should try one. Running costs I'm prepared for. With insurance and tax though I'm not expecting it to be more than two semi-interesting cars put together... That is after all part of the reason for the change. Basically I need to drive a few on the shortlist.

Never buy a car that KittyLitter has described as a Unicorn....for your budget you can get a lovely 991 of some description.

I've been watching the 991.1 market for a few months to try and understand it ahead of a potential purchase, and to me any S or 4s over £60k is too much unless it's super low miles or great colour/spec. An early 2S should be no more than £55k from a dealer/specialist with sensible miles and specs. £60k would get you I to a 991.2 but they need a porsche warranty.

Porsche-worm said: Never buy a car that KittyLitter has described as a Unicorn....for your budget you can get a lovely 991 of some description. but they are both 991's with notable descriptions

blueovercream said: Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. To address a couple of the points PDK - I'm really not a fan of the idea. I guess I should try one. Running costs I'm prepared for. With insurance and tax though I'm not expecting it to be more than two semi-interesting cars put together... That is after all part of the reason for the change. Basically I need to drive a few on the shortlist. Go with either of those two 991 unicorns I linked you to. Better to beat a modern car to death (considering your expected mileage) than an old 997/6/3 era. Edited by KittyLitter on Tuesday 5th November 21:18

Buy this! https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... I do the same with a 997 4s, winter wheels and tyres total joy. Pity about the budget, a unicorn manual gts with non centre lock wheels…. https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...

Akannajinja said: Buy this! https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... I do the same with a 997 4s, winter wheels and tyres total joy. Pity about the budget, a unicorn manual gts with non centre lock wheels…. https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch... Surely too much for a 997.1? I fail to see why an OPC wouldn’t at least put the updated PCM unit with Apple CarPlay into this car.

Grantstown said: Surely too much for a 997.1? I fail to see why an OPC wouldn’t at least put the updated PCM unit with Apple CarPlay into this car. They have I think, looking at the pics. Guess also paying for condition, mileage and opc warranty, but agree you’d have to be set on a 997 for the price, but they are a great car and I’d be tempted even so.

It is still a 997.1 with the scoring issue to consider. That car is for someone with deep pockets who is going to use it as a 4th car and put very little miles on. Prices are dropping, just many sellers are not willing to accept that yet. A few are, and they are moving quickly. Don't over pay.

I have had a 997 C2 Manual from 38k to 45k miles. It really made me love it when I was on it but honestly hated it in traffic/normal use, primarily because gearbox when cold is difficult. To me was perfect for the weekend as nothing beats the manual engagement (even if at the trade off for speed/efficiency). I subsequently decided that life is too short and wanted to daily my 911. Changed my 997 for a 991.2 pdk. 991.2 being turbo has more torque which for day to day works pretty well with pdk. I tried 991.1 but didn’t like as much for the use although the engine sound is great. Even if, as I said, nothing beats a manual for engagement, I can still have plenty of fun on my 991.2 by putting it all in sport plus and just testing the limit of the beast and doing gear changes in manual only (it doesnt shift for you!). Long story short, for your use I would go pdk. But horses for courses, if you like something purer then I would probably say 997, and wouldn’t discard a turbo (at higher tax, if you get if at the right price 700/year is “just” 7.000 over 10 years). In my case Porsche warranty was an important consideration too so 991.2 guarantees more coverage time. Good luck & hope you enjoy

I am in the same position. Budget £50 - £60 k Around 10k miles a year So far I am unsure on the following 911 991.1 911 991.2 if in budget Or a Cayman 4.0 GTS as it would be a much newer car. PDK or manual not bothered.

I was liking : BlackTails said: This one. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403187... Albeit someone said bland - I think a great daily / special However the head / sensible says this is correct way to own and run miles on a 911 without a series of significant cost. stuckmojo said: I had a similar brief and ended up buying a base Carrera PDK 991.1 with all the important options, mint and with OPC warranty for £37k. It now has 83k miles. I do 12k miles per year so I am discounting the mileage "tax" when I factor what I will sell it for, eventually. VED is below £400 for sure.

maz8062 said: BlackTails said: This one. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403187... /close thread. That’s GTS money.

DoubleSix said: That’s GTS money. Plug in £60-65k manual 991 GTS into AT. You’ll get one convertible and one 991.2 which has 52,000 miles. Personally I’d always take a NA 991.1 over a 3.0T 991.2. So good luck finding a sensible manual 991 GTS searching in that price band. Agate grey is a very nice colour. Not speed yellow or Miami blue when it comes to catching the eye, but very nice. And a light interior lifts it. But then, what do I know? I chose GT silver over Racing Yellow.

He said “ish”

blueovercream said: KittyLitter said: Buckets, PCCB, 4WD (as you mentioned) Just improve the Number Plate position - whats not to like - a unicorn spec. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202407111... Or to your max £65 budget another 991 unicorn.... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202410225... Both very nice! Unsure about PCCBs, mainly due to cost of replacement if a disc gets chipped or damaged on my commute In addition to those two 991 unicorns you could consider a 991T with buckets https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411025... thats a lot of car for the money.

blueovercream said: PDK - I'm really not a fan of the idea. I guess I should try one. Running costs I'm prepared for. With insurance and tax though I'm not expecting it to be more than two semi-interesting cars put together... That is after all part of the reason for the change. I bought a low mileage 2014 3.8 991.1 C4S in August for around your budget. I have to say that the PDK box is superb - very clever, very quick. It's my first Porsche and I'm really enjoying it, a very solid car. Your budget would be able to buy the same - if buying privately and add the Porsche warranty for peace of mind.

I'm enjoying this discussion and various suggestions Interesting that I'm not seeing many suggestions for 996s. Before I started this thread I assumed there would be recommendations for C4S or Turbo. I guess engine rebuild concerns and running costs come into play a bit more. 997.1 for the same reason Also the more I've read the more I'm thinking I should be buying from an independent specialist, or a cherished private sale with PPI. Or an OPC of course, depending on the car/premium. Edited by blueovercream on Wednesday 6th November 08:52

i'd just go 991 turbo tbh and ignore the manual thing, it's as fast as you'll ever really need, usable and looks great

BlackTails said: DoubleSix said: That’s GTS money. Plug in £60-65k manual 991 GTS into AT. You’ll get one convertible and one 991.2 which has 52,000 miles. Personally I’d always take a NA 991.1 over a 3.0T 991.2. So good luck finding a sensible manual 991 GTS searching in that price band. Agate grey is a very nice colour. Not speed yellow or Miami blue when it comes to catching the eye, but very nice. And a light interior lifts it. But then, what do I know? I chose GT silver over Racing Yellow. Fair point re NA and i like agate too….

997 Turbo is still the pinnacle, solid place for you money in the long-term and a little down on price versus a year or two ago. That won't last for ever. I'm biased, but I bought another one having realised nothing else came close to the mix of everyday usability, outright pace, size, looks, handling, etc.

Interesting thread and I wish I was in a position to buy a £60k Porsche ( I did have a 964 a few years back). But I really don't know why people get so hung up on the VED (on any car). The difference between min to max VED on a Porsche is £1 a day. It's absolutely F all. Especially if you pay monthly. £1 a day on top of running a high maintenence car is nothing. It's two takeaway coffees a week or one pint a week in a pub. Man maths and all that.

Jefferson Steelflex said: 997 Turbo is still the pinnacle, solid place for you money in the long-term and a little down on price versus a year or two ago. That won't last for ever. I'm biased, but I bought another one having realised nothing else came close to the mix of everyday usability, outright pace, size, looks, handling, etc. Can't argue with that, took me many years to to finally not buy the 'turbo' , but I'll be back for sure .. Happy Hunting OP :-)

R6tty said: Interesting thread and I wish I was in a position to buy a £60k Porsche ( I did have a 964 a few years back). But I really don't know why people get so hung up on the VED (on any car). The difference between min to max VED on a Porsche is £1 a day. It's absolutely F all. Especially if you pay monthly. £1 a day on top of running a high maintenence car is nothing. It's two takeaway coffees a week or one pint a week in a pub. Man maths and all that. A 997 turbo/GT3 is £700. A 2017/18 991 turbo s / GT3 is £200 ish. Call me a penny pincher but I'd buy the later 911 just for this and spend the rest on insurance! For £60/65k hard to beat a 997 turbo.You may even get a nice 991 turbo for this budget but I've not seen mint ones for less than £75k.

NDA said: blueovercream said: PDK - I'm really not a fan of the idea. I guess I should try one. Running costs I'm prepared for. With insurance and tax though I'm not expecting it to be more than two semi-interesting cars put together... That is after all part of the reason for the change. I bought a low mileage 2014 3.8 991.1 C4S in August for around your budget. I have to say that the PDK box is superb - very clever, very quick. It's my first Porsche and I'm really enjoying it, a very solid car. Your budget would be able to buy the same - if buying privately and add the Porsche warranty for peace of mind. I bought a 2013 991.1 Carrera S PDK in March this year, it's brilliant. Love the PDK and the car is just lovely. The engine with 400hp matched to the PDK makes it really rapid on a good road, it sounds tremendous and looks lovely in my opinion. Your budget will get you into a high spec low miles example as well. It's my 5th Porsche and 4th 911 having previously owned in this order, 996 Turbo- super bloody quick on boost, remapped and tubistyle exhaust etc. 997.1 GT3 comfort- Great car, bought when they were cheap and sold three years later for £25k more. 996 C4S - This really surprised me, bought from 911 Virgin over the phone so didnt drive it until I drove it home. A bloody lovely 911, both to drive and to look at. The 996 really is a bargain 911 great cars. Cayman R - Fantastic little sports car, fast enough, tactile, great handling and beautiful steering feel. Bloody brilliant but unfortunately not a 911. And I missed a 911. I'm very pleased with what I have now.

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I think people are forgetting the original post and the mileage that will be done each year: 260 (average working days per year) x 80miles each trip = 20,800 miles. I think it better to run down a 991 than a 997/6/3, Cayman R etc. I still think the two 991 unicorns are best - at least with an extra 20K, 40K miles on it, they still hold their unicorn status.

blueovercream said: I'm enjoying this discussion and various suggestions Interesting that I'm not seeing many suggestions for 996s. Before I started this thread I assumed there would be recommendations for C4S or Turbo. I guess engine rebuild concerns and running costs come into play a bit more. 997.1 for the same reason Also the more I've read the more I'm thinking I should be buying from an independent specialist, or a cherished private sale with PPI. Or an OPC of course, depending on the car/premium. You could choose a manual 996 turbo over a 997.1 turbo. The option of X50 or turbo S gives 450bhp ( and ceramics on the S). More affordable to buy, lower yearly VED and spend the money you saved on running costs. Worth speaking to the reputable indies and driving different cars to get an idea of what you prefer.

I won’t rule out the center locks - they are super simple to take on and off. You just need a £120 digital torque meter and a breaker bar (plus £18 lub)

Jefferson Steelflex said: 997 Turbo is still the pinnacle, solid place for you money in the long-term and a little down on price versus a year or two ago. That won't last for ever. I'm biased, but I bought another one having realised nothing else came close to the mix of everyday usability, outright pace, size, looks, handling, etc. But to then put the mileage OP plans on it would change lots

KittyLitter said: I think people are forgetting the original post and the mileage that will be done each year: 260 (average working days per year) x 80miles each trip = 20,800 miles. I think it better to run down a 991 than a 997/6/3, Cayman R etc. I still think the two 991 unicorns are best - at least with an extra 20K, 40K miles on it, they still hold their unicorn status. A few ultra mileage 996 turbos like this one with 700,000+ mile on the clock... https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/cars/he-wants-to-dri... At least you know they're up to the job.

Chap here (maybe) selling his 991 - sounds mint and very low mileage. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

PushedDover said: Jefferson Steelflex said: 997 Turbo is still the pinnacle, solid place for you money in the long-term and a little down on price versus a year or two ago. That won't last for ever. I'm biased, but I bought another one having realised nothing else came close to the mix of everyday usability, outright pace, size, looks, handling, etc. But to then put the mileage OP plans on it would change lots Maybe, but they eat mileage in a way i'm not convinced a modern Pork can do. But yes it would eradicate the value a little and the fuel costs are a little excessive perhaps, but if you want fun and everyday usability in a 911 then it's up there.

Jefferson Steelflex said: 997 Turbo is still the pinnacle, solid place for you money in the long-term and a little down on price versus a year or two ago. That won't last for ever. I'm biased, but I bought another one having realised nothing else came close to the mix of everyday usability, outright pace, size, looks, handling, etc. Which turbo are you so enamoured with - 997.1 (manual) or 997.2 turbo?

Either, I have a .1 manual and think Mezger is the best engine. The .1 auto is a great car as well though, underrated by a lot of people and for the OP would be a better option. 997.2 offered notable improvements in fuel efficiency and arguably looks a bit more modern.

I might be biased but I'd say go with a 997.1 , prices have come down and you can get a rather good one with a 30k budget , this gives you an 'analogue' Porsche at a very reasonable price. Ideally get one with an engine rebuild but if not you'd still have the spare cash to get it rebuilt - could even go down the 4.1 rebuild route. I'm not sure if spending 60k on a 991 will get you double the amount of fun then a 30k 997.1 Here's a picture of mine :

I know its not a 911, but a 981 GT4? fits your requirements perfectly!

The real answer is Emira

adean22 said: I might be biased but I'd say go with a 997.1 , prices have come down and you can get a rather good one with a 30k budget , this gives you an 'analogue' Porsche at a very reasonable price. Ideally get one with an engine rebuild but if not you'd still have the spare cash to get it rebuilt - could even go down the 4.1 rebuild route. I'm not sure if spending 60k on a 991 will get you double the amount of fun then a 30k 997.1 Here's a picture of mine : I’m with you brother. Get one with an engine rebuild, clutch, cross over pipes, suspension refresh for under £30k and you’ll enjoy it and it’ll be good for big mileage. Plus you’ll save £30K.

maz8062 said: adean22 said: I might be biased but I'd say go with a 997.1 , prices have come down and you can get a rather good one with a 30k budget , this gives you an 'analogue' Porsche at a very reasonable price. Ideally get one with an engine rebuild but if not you'd still have the spare cash to get it rebuilt - could even go down the 4.1 rebuild route. I'm not sure if spending 60k on a 991 will get you double the amount of fun then a 30k 997.1 Here's a picture of mine : I’m with you brother. Get one with an engine rebuild, clutch, cross over pipes, suspension refresh for under £30k and you’ll enjoy it and it’ll be good for big mileage. Plus you’ll save £30K. I actually know someone who has just bought a 997 GT3 and is in process of selling his 997.2 C2S that could be perfect for you. Manual, sports seats, Sports Button, Sports Exhaust (PSE) and has been thoroughly well looked after. It had a new engine, clutch and flywheel replaced under Porsche Warranty 20,000 miles ago by Porsche themselves. Coolant pipes, condenser, front radiators, brake lines, rear disks have all been done in the last few years as well. Its also had a full suspension and chassis refresh over the past few years including engine mounts and top mounts. I think it has full Porsche Service History. A lot of money was spent on it, but an incredible blue GT3 came up for sale and he couldn't resist! Anyway, if that's of interest, let me know.

g7jhp said: A few ultra mileage 996 turbos like this one with 700,000+ mile on the clock... https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/cars/he-wants-to-dri... At least you know they're up to the job. This guy is a hero! I love the idea of this. Use it all the time and keep it forever.

cypriot said: I know its not a 911, but a 981 GT4? fits your requirements perfectly! I wondered about one of these but I think I'd prefer a GTS for the slightly more subtle look and all-round useability. Lovely cars though. 911 has the added bonus of being able to mount a roof transport system (for skis); though I'm aware of various suction cup options.

blueovercream said: This guy is a hero! I love the idea of this. Use it all the time and keep it forever. I love that. He picked a great car for it too

KittyLitter said: In addition to those two 991 unicorns you could consider a 991T with buckets https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202411025... thats a lot of car for the money. +1 to this. I have a 991T and with a remap (+full system) it is exceptionally fast on the road and track. If mine was a daily, I'd have probably gone for the PDK, and if I'd made different life choices buckets and no rear seats would have been great too.