Slakker Performance

So Hartech has a USA dealer now with Slakker Performance in Oklahoma OK. haven't seen Slakker on here in a while now https://www.facebook.com/groups/304516820194761/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=1202739107039190 go to Facebook Porsche 996,997,986 and 987 engine builders. page

That�s pretty cool. Glad this is happening.

He’s a good guy. Wish him well.

I�ve been following this Hartech 3.4 to 3.7 Good results but like all M96 engine rebuilds, it�s not cheap You Tube

What’s their price

His total was 22,827 pounds

That's good news - even though LNE is an excellent company and highly recommended we really need more of these top companies to drive the innovation and keep costs in balance. It would be even better if we could do this in global scale. Just as an example Nickies solution is reasonably priced at 5.5k USD (Nickies + JE pistons, rings) but that will turn to 7.5-8.0k EUR solution due to shipping and VAT. Hartech is in similar position in EU as is LNE (except shipping) due to brexit (VAT...). There are of course smaller shops in EU like Werksmotor and Skramovsky but they are harder to reach than LNE or Hartech for example. One highend engineering shop in EU that does nothing but processes those blocks for other engine builders and shops could bring the costs down. Perhaps LNE could license their process and tech.... That could benefit other than M96 engines as well as for example pre-2012 V8 Cayenne owners are having the same bore scoring issue as M96/M97 owners. The problem with Cayenne is of course is the deprecating car value which makes the rebuild process not economically sensible. If we could fix properly but "economically" those V8s we could have much more high performance Cayennes on the streets as well. So at least in theory there's a business opportunity but as always - if it were easy everybody would be doing it....

Quotes source post: 18550454

From a facebook post: " Hartech M97 engines were in class winning cars in both the British Endurance Racing Championship and the WRL this year. And because we have duplicated their model of a fully integrated machining and rebuild shop, we will be able to offer their redesigned engine packages from the high teens to mid 20's depending on the application ." I'm sure pricing is still yet to be solidified but this should give you an idea. My hope is that they offer a wider range of services at various price points. There will be folks that want more power, whether for track work or bragging rights, but don't forget about the owners that find them selves in a situation where a rebuild is needed back to OEM spec with little desire for more power but all the desire for a dependable and "bulletproof" package. I think this is a largely untapped market. I think their experience in endurance racing will set them up well for that and the more options the better for the consumer.

Quotes source post: 18550887

FSI had 3 "package" options when I was going through the process; "The Stocker", which was built to bone stock specs for spec racing applications; Stage 1, targeting reliability and longevity moreso than performance; and Stage 2 "track performer" which adds more power plus enhancements to oiling etc. for track reliability. There wasn't a great deal of price difference. (I'm intentoinally leaving out the R series.) Point being that it's expensive to rebuild the engine, period. Adding a few things to improve performance doesn't add that much to an already high bill, in relative terms. This may be why the new program through LN will be all Stage 2.

I'm pretty sure I remember Raby saying that the Stocker option was no longer being offered well over a year ago. Also, I'm not sure about the Stocker being built for spec racing too. This is still specified in bright red text on their site and specifically calls out the Track Performer package for any type of track driving. I think it's way to soon to draw any comparisons at this point but I'll be following to see what the offerings look like. If they can find a way to offer 3 levels of builds appropriately spaced price wise it would be great. Personally, I find much more joy from the handling dynamics and sound the car produces than 50 extra horsepower but I recognize everyone has different priorities.

great news for those needing an M96 motor

https://sr.dev/

^ under construction.

I am also seriously considering this route and hoping a few others have tried this�

Quotes source post: 18863005

Bummed your motor needs to go under the knife Randy - whatever you choose I hope you end up super happy with it !

Ok I spoke with Hartech and they said slacker is only distributing their products and aren’t done as they would be in the original England location

Quotes source post: 18863388

are you talking about a full engine build or just the machining process?

Quotes source post: 18863330

Thanks man and no worries�8 track seasons and 115K miles in the books and just the beginning of the tensioner pad situation (I really can�t complain)�I have been mentally and financially prepping for this decision, LFG!

Quotes source post: 18863480

I am just starting the process, and now studying the options�frankly speaking, I am not sure what I actually need with my motor condition.

Quotes source post: 18863681

first of all, good luck with your project. I'm in the same boat as you. I discovered a broken roller in one of the timing chains on my 60k engine that has minimal ware. replacing the chain ($70 part) calls for full disassembly of the motor. so while I have the engine in parts, I decided to give it a full overhaul (Assembling the engine myself). I haven�t decided yet between LNE and Slakker. At the moment I�m leaning toward Slakker. my comment was directed to EVOMMM. obviously if you are going to send your engine to be rebuild in England by Hartech it is not going to be exactly the same like Slakker. however, from my understanding, (and anyone is more then welcome to correct me) if you send your engine to be machined by Slakker, you will get the same results. He uses the exact same machines and CNC codes (or what ever you call it) following the same exact process as Hartech. the cylinders sleeves and pistons used for the convention, are shipped to Slakker from Hartech in England. so I�m not sure what EVOMMM meant by �it�s not the same�.

Quotes source post: 18863845

Thank you and looking forward to hearing about your decisions and progress.

I didn’t get or ask for details from the rep at Hartech as to what the details were I’m only relying what he said to me if Slakker can show details please correct me I’m all for as many different engine builders getting into the 996 world

Quotes source post: 18864417

well, give Slakker a call. Brandon is very nice guy and extremely knowledgeable.

I never said they weren’t I spoke to Hartech directly after an email exchange so please stop pushing for something that’s not there

See below

In addition to being Hartech�s exclusive distributor for the US, we use all of their processes for machining and rebuilding M96 and M97 engines and have approval to call the engines that we build to their standards Hartech Engines. We are in communication with them daily for support and collaboration. We will be adding the 9A1 engine when Hartech releases their 4.2L version later this year, providing them data for their Eco Power project using our engine dyno with high speed combustion and pressure wave analysis, and sharing all of the development work we are doing on cylinder heads and valve train development using our Spintron. We are enthusiasts that are passionate about these engines and believe that the US market will benefit from having access to Hartech�s innovations, We have no interest in �canned packages� that will allow us to streamline our build process using assembly labor. Every build we do is to tailored to the vision of the owner. Our current projects range from a $19k 3.4L Cayman stock rebuild to a $32k 3.6L-4.1L X51 rebuild of a catastrophic failure where the owner wants to see how far we can push the envelope. But one of my favorite applications is for a customer that fell in love with their 2.7 Boxster, a $24k 2.7L->3.7L upgrade using the original block and a rebuilt pair of �S�heads. We break in and tune all of our builds on our engine dyno. Our warranty covers track use as long as our guidelines are followed which are largely based on the data driven �oil instability thread� where we have collaborated with other Rennlisters to research and understand the oil starvation issue.

Spintron... cool Excited to see where you're going and hopefully you can share some of the dev work you're doing here to demystify a lot of the bull**** thats so pervasive with regards to these engines.

Quotes source post: 18864593

Absolutely.

Thanks for clarifying this is great stuff but do you have ball figures for the stages and the expected hp/torque thanks again

Quotes source post: 18864688

Hartech�s general numbers range from 330bhp/300lb-ft for a 3.7 to 382/351 for a 4.1 using stock heads and intake. But the gains are throughout the power band and have to be experienced to be truly appreciate. My 3.9L Cayman is a blast on the street or track. Having purchased �stages� in the past, I was pretty underwhelmed with the result. For instance, what good is a �competition valve train� if it doesn�t improve torque and the stock valve train is good enough to hold up in the toughest of endurance racing environments? Hartech has been winning races and championships for years because they understand how to maximize the stock heads and gearing so it�s never been a priority for them. And I�ve learned more from Baz on this subject in the last year than I could have ever hoped to figure out on my own in a lifetime. But the US market is different and so is our approach. We have invested heavily into the concept that you can�t improve what you can�t measure. And so we will start by measuring and publishing the results of a lot of the bolt on �power adders� available today. The beauty of combustion analysis is that we can measure and compute torque/HP in the cylinder, before any system losses, and tell the effect of a product on both before we even adapt the tune. It�s part of a movement in data driven engine development taught by guys like Ben Strader and Billy Godbold that take religion and shrouds of secrecy out of the equation. But more to come on all of that.

Looking forward to it !!! as my car hits 104k miles I know it’s a matter of time for a rebuild so I’m trying to gather info I went and bought an 11 911 Turbo S thinking it is better to buy factory HP but I actually enjoy driving the 996 more!!! so I’m back to suggestions and I’m waiting on you posting future figures for the 996 work thanks again

Slakker, how does the install work? I.e Do I have to send you the car and core or, [something else]? If I do the install does it impact warranties?

Quotes source post: 18864937

You can send us the car or secure the engine with all of the accessories to a pallet, along with the ECU, and we will arrange to have it picked up. We have a few requirements for the warranty such as a picture of the vacuum drawn on the cooling system prior to filling but nothing major.

Quotes source post: 18864980

Thank you. Can you estimate turn around time after you recieve the engine? Shipping sucks... so the time to complete what you control.

Quotes source post: 18864744

Brandon, I wonder what HP potential after some headwork and maybe a set of cam's (Schrick, custom,etc...) would do?

Quotes source posts: 18864989, 18867620

I don't have a great answer yet. Our current backlog is about 3-4 mos and we should be turning engines around in under 4 weeks by then. But in order to ensure quality, we measure and test everything, double and triple check the key items, and if something looks or feels just a little off, we assume it is and investigate why. So we guarantee quality and budget and then every build takes how ever long it takes to get it exactly right. I think there is two different answers to this question. The first one, which will be our first focus as well, is how much we can increase the average HP from 3500 to 6500 RPM. We consider this usable power in the band that Porsches really excel. Porsche typically advertises a peak power increase of just over 20 HP with an X51 kit for the 996 and 997 X51 kits. That is by upgrading the entire system (intake, heads, cams, exhaust etc) which is the proper way to do it and I think that sets the bar for us as well for what we want to accomplish. The second way is through higher revs, which is what Porsche does with the GT3. A 997.1 GT3 actually has less torque than a 997.1S X51 engine but more horsepower because it revs higher. This will be our phase 2 if you will. Our Spintron is a basically a 50HP electric motor with a VFD that spins a motor, without combustion, up to 10k RPM. It has high speed lasers that monitor valve train stability allowing us to try different combinations and use data to see at what RPM they begin behaving erratically without blowing stuff up. Baz and Hartech will then design a set of gears that will allow the car to fully utilize the higher power band and peak HP for both sprint and endurance racing. While I won't make any predictions for this one yet, I can tell you that 8500 RPM is about as fast as we can spin the engine without moving to mechanical lifters and a dry sump.

Quotes source post: 18868075

Well i'm thinking I will do a voluntary rebuild to a 4.1 and head upgrades.. I actually found a used X51 3.6 that could be a good donor engine for this project. Or i have been debating having someone fit a 9A1 in it

Quotes source post: 18868520

I think I know the core you are talking about and I agree, it would be a great one for a 4.1 project... 9A1 would be fun if you were wanting a PDK and were able to find a low mileage engine or rebuildable core. Easiest way is to get the body harness, all of the modules, and the cluster to go with it. Power wise, you will end up about the same either way.

Quotes source post: 18868554

The 9A1 is intriguing as companies like BGB motorsports get big power out of those motors.. It's just going to be a challenge for sure getting in the car and running

Quotes source post: 18871250

John's guys build a great engine. The 9A1 starts with a little better heads but Direct injection itself doesn't add any power. Ultimately, it all comes down to your objective. If you just want big power, a TT is a great option as well. If you want to go faster around the track, the engine is no more than 20% of the equation.

Don't forget, pretty much all the DI motors (Not just Porsche) need a intake off valve cleaning occasionally.. You can watch it with a bore scope and do it when it seems needed..

Quotes source post: 18871380

agreed.. In your opinion would you think the reliability of the 9A1 is more than the M96, If the 4.1 M96 was built?

Quotes source post: 18872356

Not that you asked but I think any Nikasil sleeved engine is going to be a winner in the reliability category.

Quotes source post: 18872506

I kinda thought did with the built 4.1 M96 question.. at least that is what i was referring to as being built..

Quotes source posts: 18872356, 18872506

I don�t have data to say one or the other is better if rebuilt properly and all of my personal on track experience is with a 996 and a 987. I know that keeping the oil cool and fresh with adequate viscosity for max oil temp is essential for both. I�ve known of PDK�s driving oil temp to 300F on the 9A1 without a 2nd oil cooler. The M96 and M97 benefit from an upgraded and I�ve heard the 9A1 does as well but haven�t done any testing. I haven�t seen any data whether or not the oil il fill level is quite as important on the 9A1 as it is on the M96. So if both are properly cared for, barring a money shift or cooling system failure, both should be able to be tracked reliably. Hartech has some excellent technical reports that deep dive this subject throughly and the role that high temps play. In addition, I think that the age/# of heat cycles of the block plays a role as well. Almost every stock m9x block we see has at least one cylinder that is .004�+ out of round. This is a lot when you consider the piston clearance is around .002�. The 9A1 is starting to show the same signs as they get older. But with the tighter clearances, in addition to bore score, they are having pistons seize as well.

Getting super excited, car will be back this month (3.4->3.7 and tuned for 100 octane and IPD), track days scheduled for early June (Mid Ohio and Grattan)! LFG!

Hey all, bringing this thread back to life as I�m considering going Hartech vs Raby�s build. Curious to hear what @Ratchet1025 experience has been as well as any others who�ve gone this route.

Hello, I am happy to share more via DM or e-mail, there is too much to detail here. A few key points from my 3.4->3.7 Slakker rebuild, with the Hartech deep sump: 1). My car was tuned for 100 octane, I do not recommend that due to the availability of the fuel. But when it has 100, it is glorious! 2). My car is 99% track driven, so Brandon was watching the oil pressure data closely and trying different oils to study the impact 3). After the rebuild, we checked and struggled with oil pressure at certain tracks and high ambient temperatures 4). Brandon was present by e-mail/text 24/7 to check data, answer questions, try things to get the best overall performance 5). We finally ended up with Amsoil SAE60 race oil, and changed to the 997 oil filler (return?) tubes. This made a huge positive improvement. 6). I would 100% go this route again, and have nothing but positive things to say about the timing, quality and communication of Slakker

Another happy customer here with over 9k miles on my build since last May. Sounds like a very different approach from what Ratchet1025 did but what he said seems to align with my experience. Went with the 4.1L option and retained the X51 intake manifold, UAOS and UIDS and the car RIPS. My car is mostly street driven with a healthy amount of backroad hard miles and am chomping at the bits to get back on track for some fun. Just sent Brandon my latest UOA, which I have done after every oil change and intend to continue, and the engine is wearing in nicely with the wear metals steadily trending down. With the 4.1L, there are gobs of torque. I had a dumb idler pulley fail (bearing failed) which caused me a bit of a heart attack not knowing what happened at first and Brandon was available by phone and responded to me immediately - that's to say, post-sale support has been great. I drove my car home from Oklahoma to DC after the build with 0 issues. Up to the trip, I had ongoing updates and the way the whole operation works made the turnaround time more than reasonable and pretty damn quick if you compare to others. Give Brandon a call and have a chat at the very least.

Thanks @plpete84 @Ratchet1025 - that definitely helps me get a solid picture. I spoke with Brandon today and he was very detailed on the phone with the steps and options. Curious how long yours took @plpete84 and if you sent out the whole car or just the engine.

I shipped out the whole car. I thought about sending just the motor for a hot second but I wanted Brandon to handle everything, including the install and I really wanted to do the road trip. I shipped out the car on March 14th and flew in to pick it up on May 10th. Obviously the timeline will differ for everyone with many factors to consider but I think the major benefit that sold me on Slakker is that they basically do everything in-house, which really cuts down on time and increases quality control when everything happens under one roof. There's no waiting in queue and shipping times to get the sleeves installed and heads done. I don't know how much headwork they do but my simple clean up and decking was all done in-house. Once my time in line came up, all parts were already there and all that was needed was my car to get things moving. If you read through my ownership thread, I posted quite a few updates with photos of the process. If you look in the 997 section there was also a thread where an owner (local to me) also did a great job documenting his track focused build.

Quotes source post: 19894132

Awesome, thanks! I think I'm leaning in this direction

Quotes source post: 19894171

Did you ever make a decision? I really like the completeness of the Slakker offering - complete engine removal, rebuild, break-in dyno, re-install and ecu tuning + 2 year warranty. I want to keep my car for a long time so when the time comes I'd like to have them do the rebuild/upgrade.

Quotes source post: 19918344

Yep, I decided to go with Slakker for all the reasons you mentioned. Also Brandon was great on the phone and very informative. Just put my deposit down and am figuring out shipping logistics.

Quotes source post: 19918384

What was the timeframe like? Will it be a few months before you can send your car? Total turnaround once he gets it?

Quotes source post: 19918394

Looking to get my car shipped out next week. They will be getting started on it hopefully in the 2nd week of March and then looking to get it back in May.

Quotes source post: 19918464

Wow - that's faster than expected. How long was the wait to send out the car? And as far as terms go, I'm guessing you put half down and then pay the other half on pickup?

Quotes source post: 19918468

I think I also just got lucky with timing as it sounds like they�re finishing up some projects and getting parts from Hartech at the start of the month. But yeah I�m excited especially after everything I�ve gone through with the engine failure, I�m looking forward to the build and having something that hopefully lasts me for 100k miles. Yep half down now and half upon completion. I also asked them to add clutch and plate work given I needed to have that done anyway.

Quotes source post: 19918480

Sorry to hear about your engine failure. Did you end up having a cracked cylinder or a cracked head? I think they have the most complete, turnkey process, best warranty and the greatest likelihood of producing a result that can last 100k miles. Also, the extra power will be pretty nice.

Quotes source post: 19919375

Thanks, it sounds like a cracked cylinder based on coolant dripping in without pressurization. But we'll find out for sure when the guys tear down the engine and peek inside. And agreed, I think the peace of mind of a full rebuild + the the extra power will be amazing. I can't wait!

Post photos as you get them from Brandon! Curious to see what happened. It will be nice to have a fresh motor to rip around in without any worries. I'm getting close to 10k miles on mine since picking it up last May.

Quotes source post: 19919450

If the cylinder is cracked can it still be sleeved or would that half of the engine case have to be replaced? I talked to these guys yesterday. It's pretty interesting - they use the LN sleeves and pistons, IMS and maybe bearings. They also don't ask for core return and will ship a rebuilt 3.8 for $17,500. They use their in-house machine shop to rebuild the heads and assemble the engine. I've never heard of them though: 05-08 Porsche 997 911 Carrera S 4S 3.8L Engine Motor Assembly REBUILT | eBay

Quotes source post: 19919466

Was yours rebuilt by Slakker?

Quotes source post: 19919471

Yes - took my 40 AE 3.6 to 4.1L. Relatively mild build besides that for a street car that will probably see an occasional track outing for fun.

Quotes source post: 19919468

I actually spoke to them as well. The guys was very nice on the phone but my concern is I don't really know anything about their rebuild process. I went pretty deep in my research on rebuilding these engines and spoke with Brandon from Slakker, as well as Jake Raby from Flat 6. The sense I get is that the motor was just designed with flaws, and so you really need to replace quiet a bit of the guts to make it right from the inside out without something failing. A good example is the pistons. I asked Specialized German if they replace the pistons and they said that they don't. The other issue for me was, I don't know the history of this engine, so I don't know where they're starting their rebuild from. My understanding (from my very limited knowledge) is that re-sleeving the cylinder is possible but its not a good permanent solution. The only thing you can do to create long term stability is to basically weld in new cylinders. One thing that would help with Specialized German is to hear from folks on here who have bought one of these rebuilds and hear their experience. The fact that Slakker gives a 2 year warranty makes me feel a lot more confident. Same with Flat 6.

Quotes source post: 19919466

WIll do! I think it would be great to actually start a thread on here with photos and all of our experiences dealing with this to help other folks who will go down this same path of research and consideration. Do you have photos of your build as it happened?

Quotes source post: 19919468

Yes, we can repair almost any case—except when a rod busts through the top, since there’s not enough material to work with. We don't do sleeving. Instead, we mill out the old cylinders and install a nikasil-plated, closed-deck replacement cylinder that's supported at both the top and bottom. This is a big upgrade from the stock design, where the cylinders only have a 0.8" support shelf in the middle. Essentially, it brings the M9X engines in line with the design Porsche used before with the Mezger—and returned to with the 9A1 in 2009.

Quotes source post: 19919511

I do! I've been running a little "my ownership" thread that goes from initial purchase through all the work I performed and the rebuild and reason behind it - https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-jahre-18.html I actually forgot to post the latest UOA so will bump it with that.

Quotes source post: 19919531

That's awesome! I didn't realize this thread was yours, I've seen it a bunch of times but didn't realized you'd had a Slakker build done. I think I'm going to start a fresh one once the car gets picked up to document the journey and have other folks chime in.

I am leaning towards sending my 996.2 to Slakker for a 4.1L rebuild. I want more power but dont need/want a turbo and I think this will be exactly what I am after. If I can get close to 390-400hp, I will be quite a happy camper.

Quotes source post: 19919946

Are you looking to track the car or just for the street?

Quotes source post: 19919948

For the street, occasionally a HPDE

@plpete84 - I dropped a new thread here ( https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...h-journey.html ) to document the build! Thanks again for all the feedback. Can't wait to get the car back.