C4S or a Turbo

Hi All Is there much difference in up keep between a C4S and a Turbo please?, also, how important is it to get sat nav on one of these [i've heard there not fab to operate anyway], is it a must for future re sale? Would love any info/tips etc folks have that have either one of these cars Thanks

Not sure I want to help the Taxman, but here goes....! [ ] I use a Porsche Specialist for servicing and repairs. Average service is £200, but I only do 2000 miles a year, so not much needs doing. The most expensive thing I've had done is a new clutch - £2k. I think the Turbo clutches are probably more prone to wear than the C4S clutches. I've replaced some radiators at the front (£400 a go) due the the stone chip problem you get through the front vents, but the C4S has exactly the same problem. Re Sat Nav, I ripped mine out and replaced it with a DVD player. I never use the Sat Nav - my Porsche is basically a toy for sunny day driving, so a Sat Nav isn't necessary. Cheers, Neil.

Cheers Neil, as the price is not too different between the two, i take it you'd say " turbo " all the way then yeah over C4S? just a question on your Turbo, are the brakes good on it, as i drove one recently for sale and the brakes were sort of good, but you needed a terminator right leg to get the best out of them...what's yours like? Cheers Andie

The biggest problem you have is once you have driven a Turbo, you reaaly dont want to go back to normally aspirated cars. Personally I also wonder why anyone wants to pay as much or more for a C4S than a turbo , which is a better car, with an basically an extra100bhp (which is upgradable) and has a lot lower risk on any engine issues. Turbo's can be driven as daily cars, they are happy driving around town, in traffic jams, motorway cruising, or cross country blasts. The problem with older turbos sat nav is the maps are usually out of date , for a grand or less you can install an up to date equivalent, likewise if it has'nt one get one installed.

I guess it's personal preference. I just love the way the turbos make your head hit the head rest! My daily drives are BMWs and they bite really quick and hard. In my experience all Porsche brakes are progressive and need a good right foot, rather than the big servo BMWs. There's been quite a bit of discussion around brakes on here before. You'll need some upgrades to get you anywhere near BMW bite. Cheers, Neil.

Thanks Guys and i do understand about why anyone would want an non turbo over a turbo...they are pretty close doe wise

The best analogy when comparing between a C4S and turbo is the difference between a BMW 335i and M3. Best to get a drive in either and make up your mind.

Personal preference. I fell for a C4S because I liked the wide body without the holes in the side and loved the rear reflector (that the early 997s did not have!) which reminded me of earlier Porsches. However, the Turbo is head and shoulders a better car to drive (and is notably faster) and I am sure that the cost of running them will be pretty similar (brakes, rads are the same) and the Turbos engine is notably more reliable generally (although I have never had any problems with my C4S engine). Lastly, the Turbo is likely to hold on to its value (secondhand) better than a C4S. This comes from a man with a C4S. So it shows that although a Turbo is probably better, you have to go with what you prefer and can live with. I did. I am sure you will love either!

As a new member and recent buyer of a 996 I can't really add anything to the Turbo versus C4S debate except to say they are both great cars and absolute bargains considering what you are getting for your money. On the brakes side of things though, I did notice that when test driving cars from showrooms the brakes always felt a little wooden. I thought it was just the way Porsches are and wasn't that worried because they always stopped the car well. So when I eventually took the plunge and bought my Carrera 2 and gave it some use the brakes started to exhibit some feel and give good feedback. So it may be that the cars you've tried don't get much use. I just ran mine yesterday after it had stood for nearly 2 weeks and it took a few miles for the brakes to show some feel again. Anybody agree with this?

I think with brakes, is that you need a few days to get used to them and how they feel and respond and most importantly have confidence in them. The Turbo brakes are as described a bit "insensitive" to start until you are used to them

hello taxman everyone who has drove my car comments on poor brakes but you just have to press them frimer than your modern bmw etc after a few months ownership you end up with a massive right leg lol

Thanks all. Been looking at a few C4S's today, and am looking I suppose at around £18-21k, and it seems about £25k ish for a turbo....decisions decisions. Just trying to find a good turbo now to drive and finally make my mind up. Just a question, I've seen a C4S today that's done give or take 48k, and had an annual minor service in the summer, I thought 48k was a major service???

Have you thought about a standard Carrera? ;-) A C4S is carting a lot of extra weight about with no more power. A C4S Tip is effectively nearly 40bhp down on a C2 Manual as it's carrying nearly 200Kg more Here's a table in a C4 vs C2 vs C4S post I knocked up ages ago. 996 Power to weight comparison

48k is a Major, but it usually gets out of synch after a few years. It may have had a Major at 36k, perhaps. When cars get to become weekend toys, rather than daily drivers, they tend to get over-serviced. More important is the sequence of minor-major-minor-major.....(every 12 months max) rather than absolute mileage. There is an Annual Inspection for low mileage cars, but indies tend to recommend a Minor in preference to an Annual.

My understanding was that although you carry a bit of extra weight with the C4 compared to the C2, the extra traction means performance is almost identical? Obviously going to the C4s gives you a bit more extra weight, but personally I reckon for a lady to have an arse that fantastic I don't mind working a bit harder!! ;-) Have to say I recently purchased a C4S after the same dilemma, but looking around really felt to get a turbo I would feel confident in I was going to need to spend close to the 25k mark, where for under 20k I found a C4s I am delighted with. I'm far from an expert tho! Other factor for me was the thought that in 4/5 years I might get bored and want to go for something faster, if I bought the turbo now then what!!

Plenty of Tiptronoc Turbo's around £22/3k with circa 50000 miles on them so you can make an offer of a grand or two cheaper!

I have a Turbo and tried out most models before buying it over 4yrs ago. I found it head and shoulders above the others. Have you had a look on you-tube at Top Gears test on the 996 Turbo & 4S, its worth it just for the last few minutes when Clarkson compares models??

That's how I buy cars. As for the sat nav. I spent ages thinking it was rubbish as I could never find my destinations. Then I realised you have to use it differently to most sat nav units, the locations are stored under slightly different headings and suddenly I began to like it. City rather than village and sometimes road name then village.

Thanks all. I'll check out the Top Gear thing now. Anymore post's would be brill though if poss....keep them coming

I've owned both - Turbo all the way, it's a different proposition altogether, just put your foot down in both and you should be sold. That's not to take anything away from the C4S - lovely car, just doesn't pull like a space ship. I ripped out the Nav in mine and replaced with a Sony all singing/dancing unit, bluetooth phone, tomtom nav with live traffic, DVD player, USB audio and video etc I still have the original nav unit, dvd drive and cd multichanger if you wish to retro fit, drop me a line

Andie, Have you checked out the Cobalt Blue 2002 Turbo for sale in members section?

Here http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=661534&mpage=1&key=&#661534

Similar car with 37k on the clock and 2003 model available from Oakfields for a few k less http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270835951186?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_2273wt_1054 Try Northways near Reading he has 4 * C4S for sale from under £20k (not on site yet) to £24k and an immaculate Turbo.

Oakfields and nways turbos both sold I think.

Thanks Guys, but although the Blue one is in awesome condition along with spec, im not a fan of the colour im afraid. I'd already spotted it though, and it looks a very genuine motor

The video is well worth a look...Clarkson's summation at the end is classic. Link here .

Classic!! [ ]

Having just stumbled on this thread, and as C4S owner I thought I would add my thoughts. I'm sure a turbo is wonderful and the extra power fun to have. However how often can full use of that extra power be made, in the real world and on ordinary roads? The turbo is more money to buy and will be more expensive/difficult to insure. Yes the C4S may risk an IMS failure; but an upgrade will prevent. Turbos can also fail. And don't forget the 4 in the title stands for something useful!

SIB - I'm a previous C4S owner, loved it and sort of shared your thoughts when choosing the C4S over the Turbo in the first instance. Personally I think the power can be used on the road but you do tend do be on the brakes quite a bit! I think in standard form they are at the top of whats possible to use on the road, much more than 500bhp and they are insane. Will still remap mine tho!!! The torque however is a different story, the pull from low down in the rev range in every gear is superb and makes life easier most of the time. In terms of purchase price, not massively more expensive to buy and still one of the cheapest 'super-car' performance options available on the used market. I've heard of people getting similar quotes on Turbo compared to NA 911s so not too sure on this. Luckily the Turbo is also 4WD so a perfect ownership proposition through the winter months, one of the main reasons I switched from my Vantage coming into the colder months. MPG is similar on them too if your not boosting the turbos, it's very easy to drive off-turbo when coasting about. Now I have had a Turbo I wouldn't turn back, next car will most probably be a 997TT when depreciation/funds allow. I thought much of the same when choosing the C4S a couple of years back but knowing what I know and having the same decision to make again it would be TT all the way. All IMO of course

I was in the same place you are when I was trying to decide about six months ago. I drove a couple of examples of both to help me decide. Now this is purely subjective but I drove the 997 C4S first and really liked it it is a great car and respectfully fast, feels really planted and safe. However, then I drove a turbo and what a difference! The power and delivery were in a different league. I drove another C4S a few days later and it seemed tame by comparison. A week or so after that I drove a Turbo S and my mind was made up so after some time searching I bought my turbo from RSJ. I really like forced induction, more than half of the cars I have owned over the past decade have been and I was coming from a 500BHP blown 5.7 Monaro when I was looking for the Porsche. I like supercharged for the more linear power delivery but I must say that the Porsche turbo is brutal. I love the floor the throttle and hang on for dear life experience. Admittedly it takes a more predictive and proactive driver to get the best out of a turbo, especially the slight lag of the S, X50 and GT2 variants with the bigger turbos, eg floor the throttle just before you need full boost etc. However when you get it right it is a very rewarding experience. What's more, with a Tubi exhaust and a BRC filter you can add a genuine 50bhp to the car without compromising reliability. Just writing this makes me want to go for a drive. I have the day off and nothing to do. If only I had not agreed to let my wife take it out for the day........

Thanks for all the posts, i appreciate it

+1 to all the above Previous to the 997TT we had a C4S X51 great car but not a patch on the turbo[ ]

Not a patch on your 997TT or compared to a 996TT?

What about insurance and running costs? I accept absolutely that the Turbo is more fun to drive. But does all that power come at a significantly higher annual running cost?

I am not sure about insurance costs but I would guess there is not much in it between the two. Use one of the online insurance comparison sites to compare. As for running costs, I don't think they will be far apart. Apart from servicing which might be a couple of hundred more than a C4S for the Major (24k) Services, the main costly wear and tear parts on these cars such as tyres, brakes, rads etc are the same on both cars.

Insurance on a Turbo is usually cheaper than a Carrera. The only major difference in servicing is spark plugs. 24000 intervals on a Turbo, and it is a 5 hour job to change them. Other than that, and a slightly higher fuel consumption, there isn't much difference in running costs.

Insurance was about 20% more for me because my insurance company loaded me due to the X50 option. My average MPG is the same as one of my guy's 997 C2 but if I drive it hard I am sure I will be using more fuel than him. Big plus for me is the fact that the 996 Turbo uses a different engine than the non-turbo cars. It is based upom the GT1 LeMans engine which is effectively the air cooled motor with a water jacket so no IMS issues! Compare how many reports you can find non-turbo engines destroying themselves against turbos. I did a quick search and found countless 996 and 997 C2/C4 engine threads on various forums, I only saw one Turbo demise and that was due to abuse. That was the clincher for me (apart from driving the Turbo of course) as I plan to keep it a while and didnt have a spare £12K+ to put aside just in case. B

Regarding servicing, std 24k 996 service at Northways is £285+v. Turbo is £425 +v which is about 2 hours extra labour allowing £20 for the plugs.

I believe the book time is 4-5 hours, but I'll look it up when I get to my PC tomorrow. You have to remove the rear PU and the intercoolers, to get to the coil packs and plugs. Definitely more than two hours, so I suspect that Northway subsidise it to an extent. My indy charges £265/£425 for Carrera/Turbo for a 24k. Edit: Book time is 350 Porsche Time Units, or 3 1/2 hours, in English: