2010 987.2 base, oil over full light

Hi Folks, New first post for me. New to me 2010 987.2 base in Feb 2023. Had my first oil change done on 24-06-18 at 42,462 miles. Bought my own Mahle oil filter and Mobil 1 0-W40 oil (10 quarts $53 from Walmart) to Firestone $44 labor. They returned ~2 quarts of oil to me. So 7.9 quarts in. $100-140 less then having an Indy shop do it. 2-3 days after change driving for 45 mins on highway from a car show, during spirited driving oil overfull light displayed. I pulled over. Turned off the car . Waited 5 minutes turned on engine and no more light. I figured if it happens again I’d go to Firestone to remove some oil. I did call to let them know situation and cover my butt. Generally I drive her locally for errands. So about a week later after a 20 minute errand one way, stopped for an hour, and on way back it happened again, overfull light. I drove straight to Firestone . I showed them the oil level indicator entirely solid white. They assured me they put in only shy of 8 quarts. They drained the oil into clean container, measure manually, removed ~1/2 quart. Once oil was up to temp, I checked the oil indicator level and it still shows solid white. I read and tried an oil indicator “reset” open trunk for 45 seconds to a minute and try measuring again. No white or blue exhaust smoke when starting (thankfully). Should it show between the white lines? Did the oil change mess up the indicator? I’m not trusting the measurement and concerned running 7.5 quarts could cause problems with the engine. Any input and guidance is appreciated. Thank you ahead of time for you Mr consideration. MBL

Hi MLB, welcome to Plant-9. Since no one has replied let me provide some general advice. My cars are 987.1 but I suspect there are commonalities with your 987.2 -There is no dip stick. I'm sure you know this and it makes things harder to trouble shoot. There is an "electronic dipstick" that extends into the oil in the sump. It provides a varying resistance that is porportional to the depth of the oil. It also measures the temperature of the oil. These are analog measurements. -The analog measurements are converted to digital info and are fed to the instrument panel via the CANBUS. I mention this because a shop with the proper equipment can probably "see" the signal on the CANBUS before it gets to the instrument panel and may be able to do a diagnostic to determine if the values coming from the electronic dipstick are valid. Keep in mind that Porsche software evaluates critical values continously to see if they make sense. If they don't, you will get a message. You are not getting such a message, which is a good sign. And no, I don't see any way that doing an oil change could affect this system. -You may recognize that is some circumstances, the car will not give you an oil level reading. It gets complicated but Porsche has some software working behind the scenes to compensate for oil temp and time required to drain back the oil after the engine is shut off. Just bear in mind that with these engines, Full can be a moving target. -I assume the 7.9 quarts of oil you added is what the Owners Manual says is required for an Oil and Filter Change? Can you verify what your Owners Manual is asking for in this regard? -I do all my own maintenance work. Your problem may be that a place like Firestone , where time is money, they didn't let the oil drain completely. In a perfect world, you start the oil change with a warm engine. You remove the drain plug and wait 15 to 30 minutes. You also pop off the plastic filter housing and let that drain. -The oil measurement "bar graph" is problematic as it really doesn't deal well with Full, much less OverFull. What I like to do is add one quart less than required, then go through the warmup cycle to get a reading. It should be low. Then I add small amounts of oil (1/4 quart) at a time until I am 1 bar below full. And that's were I leave it. Then you know where you stand. I can't give you a guarantee but short of heavy track use, being this small amount low will be fine. The consquences of driving around over full are worse, in my mind. -If you are up for it, you can reverse the procedure I use by removing the plastic oil filter canister, dumping out the small amount of oil, re-install, idle the engine for 30 seconds, and then check the oil level. You may have to do this multiple times but eventually you should get below full. But if you take it back to Firestone , try the thing they did where they removed 1 or 2 quarts, and add back less, so as to ease up on full. And for me, I would toss anything they remove and use your 2 extra quarts to refill. -Keep us posted!

I would add: stay away from Firestone and Goodyear . We had to use one or the other. They did inadequate repairs on my company cars all the time. They sure don’t understand a car with the idiosyncrasies a Porsche comes with at delivery.

Thank you HarveyF! I appreciate you sharing and the suggestions.

I'll just comment - the guys at Firestone did OK by you. 7.0-7.5 Liters is the normal amount my 2009 2.9L engine needs to be "full". There is no overfill warning really - the tiny bit above the can generally be ignored. The 987.2 engines are basically a dry sump engine where the dry-sump is built into the bottom of the engine. This means a slight overfill doesn't really risk frothing up the oil - which can happen in a wet-sump engine. The difference between the two? A solid baffle between the oil and the rotating bits like crankshaft, cam chains, connecting rods. On a wet sump engine, overfill can cause the oil to get thrown around in the sump by the rotating bits, causing air to get entrapped in it, resulting in poor lubrication of the engine. The dry sump engine has a few strategically placed drain holes in the baffle between the oil and the rotating bits preventing the oil from being tossed around. The result - superior lubrication even if the oil is slightly overfilled (as long as it doesn't get filled to above the baffle.) Porsche people obsess endlessly about oil... the type of oil, how much to use, what weight to use, additive packages, how often to change it, having the equivalent of blood-tests done on it - when basically - Porsche seems pretty sanguine about the whole thing. They eliminated the dipstick because most people don't have a clue how to actually use it correctly, and replaced it with an electronic measuring device so they can add a warning if the oil level gets too low. Rules to use on your .2 (which is different from a 987.1 in this regard), put 7.5L (notice - LITERS) in - then sneak up on the final bit. Porsche wants the oil to be at working temperature before measuring it - so the oil is actually measured not only hot - but more importantly - with the engine running (never done with a dipstick.) Thats when the level is important. Engine hot and running. And - really important IMHO - do it in the same place - and no more often than about every 500 miles. By same place - I mean SAME place. I measure it in my garage after coming back from using the car. The level readout WILL change if the angle of the car changes, so you want it to be consistent. Your Firestone guys went the who mc'gilla on making you happy - most owners and shops would just drop and drain the oil filter to remove about 1/2 liter from the engine IF they were really concerned. You didn't mention anything misbehaving - or smoke - stumbling - awful noises - so nothing at ALL was damaged. Your engine is fine.. It actually was fine. 7.9 QUARTS = 7 LITERS. Having it overfilled by 500cc means nothing at all, and that's way more than the top segment you're concerned with. The cars are made to be driven.

BTW - welcome to Planet-9, the friendly place for OCD Porsche owners to bond with other OCD owners. When you have a chance - please do two things for us: Head over to https://www.planet-9.com/forums/new_members/ and introduce yourself and your 987 - photos are really welcomed. Read the link at the top of every page talking about posting photos on Planet-9. They're much more likely to be viewed if people don't have to click through a link to view them.. and it's actually quite easy to do. Welcome again!

Thank you Don!

Any ideas why my oil measurement is still showing solid white (pic #2) after Firestone putting only 7.5 quarts in?

As Don and I tried to explain, the light system is not perfect. BTW, have you looked at your owners manual to see how it describes the light system and the protocol for checking the oil level?

Haven’t been home from the office yet. Will check manual tonight.

Hi Folks, Owners manual says 7.9 quarts (7.4L). I’ll have to remove some oil via the “remove the filter and empty” method when I’m available next week. Otherwise, me and my dog are enjoying the ride! Again, thank you for the guidance.

Good plan. Now, if you remove 2 qts of oil and it is still showing full, maybe you have a bigger problem. Cross that bridge if you have to. BTW, on my 2007, with the fill leaving the bars at one bar below full, there are still times when it lights up the last bar. Just reiterating that it is not an exact measurement.

It's quite inexact actually - since the display is in increments of about 300cc per segment. You will not see any partial segments lit up.. is jumps to the nearest one, so the top segment (below the line) could indicate 7.1 liters or 7.4 liters of oil. Don't obsess over the reading - just make sure it's repeatable by taking it in the same place under the same conditions.

deilenberger: a few posts back you mentioned that the 987.2 has a dry sump oil pan. What is in my ‘08 2.7l 987.1 , if you don’t mind?

Your 987.1 has a dry/wet sump engine. There is a separating plate between the sump and the moving parts so aeration caused by the moving parts is reduced - the real issue with those engines is oil starvation during extended high-speed turns - oil can be pushed against the inside of the valve covers trapped there by centrifugal force and not return to the sump, ending up with oil starvation. The 9A1 series engines addressed this by adding additional scavenger oil pumps in the heads/valve covers, that return the oil thrown trapped in the valve cover to the sump. From photos I've seen, I believe the baffle between the sump and engine is more complete on the 9A1 (enough that Porsche claimed it as dry-sump), but I can't say I've seen them side by side. Interesting article on oil and the m96 /m97 engines: What is the story behind oil starvation with the M96/M97 engine? – LN Engineering Support

If you have a hour or two to kill and want to know more than you ever thought possible, read my article and youtube videos about the 987.1 oiling system. Linked below. Very high level, dry sumping was a high performance engine design that got rid of the traditional oil pan (on standard upright piston engines). The oil at the bottom of the engine is sucked out continuously by scavage pumps and sent to a separate tank. This allowed the engines to sit lower in the car (cg benefit) and kept the oil from interacting with the crankshaft (anti-foaming benefits, small power gain benefits). With the flat 6 design of Porsche engines from day 1, there has been a potential problem in that the cylinder heads are on a horizontal plane and it is hard(er) to get the oil back to a common collection point. Porsche has been dealing with this from the beginning, with a variety of solutions. My knowledge is mainly with the M96 /97 engines but going way back to my first 356, there were tubes on the lower side of the cylinder heads that drained the oil back to the sump. And we called it a sump and everyone was happy. Porsche literature calls the M96 /97 a dry sump design. Some folks thought this was a little cheeky but the concept is just an evolution, not a revolution. The M96 /97 engine (your Caman is M97) has a single scavage pump at the end of each of the two cylinder heads, that send the oil back to the middle of the engine, where it is sucked up by the supply line to the oil pump. I don't know, to me it looks like a wet sump but I guess a company that can attach "Turbo" to a full electric vehicle name can call it what they want So its "dry" because the rotating crankshaft does not dip into a pool of oil but it is "wet" because there is a pool of returned oil in the "sump" area of the engine. Got all that? Just me but if you don't track your car with super high performance tires , don't loose any sleep over the oil starvation issue. I looked at Porsche Club of America technical support archives going back to 2000. The oil starvation "problem" was not a thing when the car was new so I tend to think it is caused by usage outside the original design envelope rather than a generic design fault. IMHO! Harvey Porsche M97 Engine Oiling System Explained My article on the Oiling System of a Porsche 944 engine has been very popular on my website. I suspect that occurs mainly because folks have a problem with their 944 oil pressure and via a Google s… newhillgarage.com

harveyf: Great info! You must have put a ton of time into your articles and vids, but some of the best detailed info by far. I enjoyed watching the vids and getting a better understanding of the intricacies and inner workings of our toys. I came away with some much needed knowledge and facts. Thanks for your dedication and sharing.

My years of writing technical documents for my work in the nuclear power industry finds a new outlet in my retirement! Thanks for the compliments.

Just following up. First of all, thank you to everyone for your guidance especially the explanation about the inaccuracies of the dashboard oil measurement. As of this posting. I’ve continued to monitor my oil via the cars dash controls. Still shows full (see second pic at top of thread). I have not added or removed any oil. And have not received any warning lights during local or spirited highway driving. I am carrying some extra oil “in case” in the frunk. I don’t like the feeling of “not truly knowing” exact oil levels. But I continue to monitor.

Well, the oil monitor on dash seems to be registering now.