Turbo Cayman 987.1 Metal Shavings In Oil

Hey guys, I recently picked up a 2006 CS with 62k miles and a TPC turbo kit (installed @ 48k miles in 2014). It had Porsche service history less than 1k miles ago and runs well. I had it on the lift today to do an oil change and AOS replacement when I found lots of non-magnetic metal shavings in the oil filter (picture attached). IMS bearing failure? Turbo bearing failure? Thoughts on next steps are greatly appreciated! Previous owner reports having the IMS Bearing Direct Oil Feed modification installed.

Send an oil sample in to Blackstone labs . It may point you on the right direction. Either way, that's a bummer. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Man! Those are freakin' shavings not little specks. I wouldn't drive it anymore until you learn what were it's coming from. It might mean the difference between a rebuildable motor vs an artificial reef. I am truly sorry man from one car guy to another. Best wishes!

I’d say cylinder score-chunks…. Putting a turbo on an N/A motor was mistake #1 (whoever did it). I don’t see the gain advantage running 5lbs boost on a 12:1 compression motor… This just sucks man… that’ll be 20-25k for a rebuild. I’m sure you detonated and the cylinder wall gouged Sorry to be so blunt… there is a YouTube cayman guy that doing the same thing and I wish I could tell him not too.. honestly it would be cheaper to do a TT 3.6 911 motor swap

oops

If you have the car on the lift, you might be able to pull a plug out and look into the cylinder with a borescope and see if scoring. As to the Turbo, I thought these cars were scoring without a turbo? I know more heat and boost won't help but that might not be the cause in that case. I think the important thing about the OP is he just got his world rocked, so maybe the community can help him out? Anyone in his neck of the woods with a bore scope perhaps? Or know a good, moderately priced independent shop near him? This is a car guys almost-worst nightmare. OP, were are you located, maybe someone near you can help out?

Agree^ I feel bad for the OP…. It’s an awful ordeal…. I didn’t mean to sound “told ya so”… my apologies

Thanks guys. I have new plugs and was planning to replace them after the AOS . I'll have a boroscope in the garage on Monday to check for scoring. I've also requested oil sampling kits from Blackstone Labs and Speediagnostix and reached out to Flat 6 Innovations. I hope it's dislodged aluminum shavings from the turbo oil return line (that waited 7 years to make an appearance), but fear it's bore scoring ( Cylinder Bore (Scoring) – Flat Six Innovations – Porsche Engine Experts )

Are you using oil? What does the exhaust and or rear bumper look like? Sorry I’m was a bit abrupt, I just think these turbo kits are not a good fit on a high compression motor.

It is definitely blowing oil out the exhaust at startup, but also seeping out of the intake like a failed AOS . I've only driven it twice since purchase and the oil level is "full". My understanding from the forums and others with the turbo kit is to run half a quart less oil (one bar below full) to reduce the risk of AOS failure. That's what started the oil change that uncovered this.

Man…. Those metal fragments have me real concerned tho… no idea about a 1/4 less… I wouldn’t personally… since that has turbo lines wouldn’t you need more oil for that extra path??

when you do oil sample analysis ask for complete ferrography test , it will show the micron size as well as the composition of these shavings, through which you can tell pretty much from which part of the engine these are coming from.

What good is a PPI without an oil filter inspection. Or did you buy a turbo modified motored car without a PPI? You will need to remove your oil pan and clean it up if its not caused by bore scoring. Not sure where the non magnetic material could come from except the cylinder walls. The IMS bearing is metal. I would not start it up until you hear from Flat 6 Innovations, Jake Raby, You might look at his on line video collection re bore scoring and related topics before calling him.

Gentlemen, please let's try to stop blaming the poster... .man, he is going through a rough patch here! C'mon. These days it is almost impossible to get a PPI. Cars are selling on auction sites with 10 guys deep. Most Porsche dealerships don't do PPIs anymore and often you have to bid on a clock and take your chances. If you don't believe look up Blue Cayman I tried to bid on Cars and Bids just a couple of months ago. So I would like to appeal to you as fellow car guy to just have a little compassion and acknowledgment of the current buying realities these days.

Some states have a mandated return policy of so many days. I would check with your state, you maybe able to return the car to the seller. Hurry.

I've known this car and it's previous owner for 3 years as part of our local club... even parked in the garage bay next to my vehicle for most of that time. I'm not looking for any advice on PPI or dumping it back on the seller as I'm sure we'll work it out if this is catastrophic. He's aware of the situation and following along. There was no sign of this at it's last oil change and the car had been sitting for ~6 months before I picked it up. I replaced the battery , drove across town and back, and started the oil change that found the shrapnel. Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations has been very responsive and I'm hoping we can figure something out. Here is another image of the filter cut open. I wasn't able to get anything to stick to a magnet.

I would also call TPC for their advice as they had the car and added the TPC turbo unit. Show them the pictures and tell them the story. These issues need to be pushed back to the guys that first rebuilt the engine as a turbo. Maybe they can tell you why this happened. Mike is a reasonable car guy and he knows how fragile the M-97 engine is. I followed his oil pan design and oiling advice for a number of years, to glean any additional information re rod bearing scaring or bore scoring. Let us know what his team concludes is the issue here. He has a reputation to uphold as he still sells this modification.

I sold a 10 year old BMW a couple of months ago and I told the new buyer, this has the original charge pipe and it will probably blow. Every other like model had blow theirs and we signed a bill of sale with "no warranties expressed or implied." The next day he sends me a text image of an engine light asking me if I know what that light is. I didn't know, I had never seen it before and I googled it and sure enough it's the same light you get when the charge pipe blows. I have babied the car and did everything right and the stupid pipe blows not a week or a month but THE NEXT DAY! I'm embarrased as all hell. So we take it to the dealer and I pay for it and the new owner says, let's at least split it. I said no man, sorry, maybe if it was a week later.... if it blows the very next day, I pay...period. : ) So happy the previous owner being helpful and best wishes.

You are an honorable person. You don't see that much these days. Kudos to you! Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

My father was a saint. People would buy their first manual, use the clutch as a sanding wheel and then show up several months later wanting consideration on their "USED" purchase. Most of the time he would do all the labor free and make the customer pay parts. Believe it or not SOME still whined. You can't please everyone but in my experience only a man with third degree burns from an explosion even bothered to try. My dad, car M.D. ( motor doctor) and patron saint, our service department was always a wait, we couldn't always handle the demand for the services of the saint.

sorry to read this tale of woe, please let us know what happened. the attached link is from the porsche club tech notes videos. Very entertaining and #16 is bore scoring and future cylinder wall materials. Great video and frightenly bore scoring extends beyond the 986 / 987.1 . Many us do the blackstone oil analysis on every change, i think i sleep better with that information. CS 07 with 109K Tech Tactics LIVE - YouTube

I would get the oil pump pulled apart. Went through an issue a few years back with one of my cars and the gear inside the oil pump had broken in two and was carving out the cover from the inside. Wasn't a Porsche but based on what you find when you look at the cylinders I would want to see that. Best of luck! Keep your chin up! Broken oil pump shaft/ motor over rev www.renntech.org

Since I’m like really turbo experienced it could also be the compressor/turbine blades scraping the housing and those chunks getting sucked into the cylinders…not helping the cause at all of course.. I’ve had this happen before.. OP: have you scoped this ? I haven’t read everything so I apologize… Also, how many lbs boost are you running? Do you run an EGT gauge? Besides the turbo/manifold/IC/ ecu reflash and oil lines what else do these come with? These motors are already heat monsters, this turbo is a real bad idea.. way to many bads … I’m blunt sorry but I am trying to help

"I would also call TPC for their advice as they had the car and added the TPC turbo unit. . . . These issues need to be pushed back to the guys that first rebuilt the engine as a turbo." We don't even know if TPC installed the turbo kit, much less rebuilt the engine, but I'd certainly see if Mke will share some of his knowledge. FWIW in 2/20 I bought a 987.2 w/ turbo kit that was installed, engine rebuilt, and serviced by TPC. They won't talk to me. I guess they aren't selling too many kits anymore.

I didn’t know this motor was rebuilt… I just think it’s a bad idea… I wouldn’t ever talk to them! These cars need a third radiator and better oil system before a turbo..

Just rebuild it. $16-18K

Hi , I am a 987.1 Cayman S owner located in New Zealand. When I bought the car I had the 200 point Porsche inspection (Pass) followed by a fluids change by a local specialist. In the invoice he reported “metal in the oil filter element. I noted this and it looked like the coating on pistons in high performance vehicles, particularly those with Nikasil (or equivalent) cylinder bores. I then spoke with the tech people at Calico and another coating OEM provider. I explained to them that motors were being bulk stripped and components replaced because of this coating dislodging from the piston and ending up in the oil filter. Their response was “it is normal for some some coating material to eventually dislodge and end up in the filter and that they wished they could latch onto a money spinner like this!! I think your clue is “non magnetic” which is what a coating is exactly. Might I be so bold as to suggest the following: 1. Send the samples to a laboratory for analysis and report. 2. Find the OEM coating providers and verify my comments from the coasters is correct. 3. Fit a deep sump oil pan 4. Use a Bigfoot magnetic sump plug and monitor residue on the magnet. 5. Have it analysed if necessary as this will determine EXACTLY where it has come from. 6. Use half the recommended oil and filter change period. .(I track the Cayman ) Find a shop with expertise on the Cayman and stay with them. Enjoy the marque, there’s none better for the money. *FFASLH Tony *foot flat and steer like hell

If you want to quickly check if it's aluminium (or another non-magnetic metal of ourse) or iron you can check with a magnet.

Agree with ya cha say… they did use a few different coatings but foe the most part .1’s had Nikasil… I’ll add, get a oil line to the IMS and a third radiator… and use Joe Gibbs oil.. me personally toss the turbo in the trash…

Here is the stage 2 TPC turbo kit for 987.1 . Mike even had a version stage 3 that reduced the compression by a set of special pistons, stronger rods and some secret oiling modifications and more money back in 2016. He did require that the car be delivered to his shop.

I guess I would have just done a 996/997 TT swap and been done

But that does not help the OP. He needs to tell us if the exam of the cylinder walls rules out bore scoring.

I understand that… you posted the cost of the turbo kit… between the cost from that and a bad motor it would have been cheaper to do a turbo swap… that’s all I meant

PCN - I have a 2008 Cayman S with the TPC Turbo kit installed. I had problems with the AOS getting oil filled - replaced it 3 times - even considered a drip can. Then the engine started smoking profusely at idle. Very embarrassing at stop lights. After 2 mechanics and a year of trouble shooting, Sam Shalela at Porsche North in Houston diagnosed the problem as a bad turbo. TPC rebuilt it (not for free) and I haven't had an issue since. Dynoed at 425 hp - 80,000 miles - runs like a scalded cat!

I like this story, TPC was involved and fixed the turbo, with some cost to you. Keep us updated. What oil are you using and is that what Mike recommended. Also what stage turbo kit did you have installed. Do you have a boost gauge and is it adjustable? Did TPC include a deeper customized sump as well?

Apex1 - the Stage 2 turbo was installed by Eurocar-Werk in Houston. They suggested adding a can pf BG MOA to the engine at oil changes to better deal with the heat. I also use Red Line 5W50 every 5,000 or yearly - whichever comes first. The 5W50 still falls within oil viscosities recommended by Porsche but doesn't thin as quickly. I removed the chronometer and installed a boost gauge, that also shows the boost air temperature. The one made by AeroForce is a near perfect swap. I also initially installed Bilstein PSS9's which lowered the car but they never lasted too long. The fronts failed within about 10,000 miles - Bilstein said I wore them out! The Bilsteins were later replaced with Ohlins which raised the car slightly but provided better handling and a smoother ride. I recently added 14mm spacers all around at the recommendation of Chris Brown, Service Advisor at Porsche North in Houston. It looks right. This car is definitely quicker than our 2018 BMW M2 and 2018 Porsche Carrera 4S! It makes me smile!

Interesting. I have an 08 911 C4S. Installed TPC kit back in 2012 w 9k miles on it. Had same problem and changed the AOS . Wasnt that. Bearings were bad in the turbo. Rebuilt and balanced turbo. Promptly recurred. I decided to ditch that turbo and went with a Garrett BB turbo from GPOP shop. Installed and no issues past few years. We have about 15k miles on the setup thus far.