Why is the motor in such a low state of tune?

295hp 3.4 L? 87hp/L? This is inline with the Nissan 6 or the BMW 6. However, in the BMW it gets those output levels with little noise. The large grill on the nose should allow more than enough cooling, 320-350hp would have been nicer. And they could have pushed the 911 up a noch also. With so many cars pushing 100hp/L or more, I was hoping for a little more.

Remove the restrictive exhaust manifold and open up the intake and I bet you gain 15-20hp right there, add a little ECU tuning and 30hp gain is easily within reach, maybe more... tuners will love this car...

I think the following link may provide some of the answers you might be looking, just this is the Internet and anyone can post anything http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=156247&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=2

Although there seem to be some inaccuracies in that post on rennteam, but that's ok, like I said, a little tweaking will go a long way on this car. I mean just think about it, the 1999-2000 3.4L 911's had 296hp, the Cayman S 3.4L has 295 and it has the newer 997 S heads with vario-ram that the 1999-2000 3.4L 911's didn't have, so it is patently obvious that the Cayman S engine is detuned, likely in a combo of exhaust restriction, intake restriction and ECU tuning. It remains to be seen which of those 3 is the biggest culprit.

Two reasons...... 1) Keep if from performing better than a 911. 2) Porsche can easily give it another 10-15HP in 2 or 3 years, and then another 10-15HP a few years after that, etc. That way they get performance increases to keep sales going, don't have to do major engine re-design for many years, and it won't mess with reason one as the 911 will be doing the same thing.

Two parts to this. Yes, they wanted it to be slower than a 911. With less weight and a mid-engined layout, it would be fair amount faster than a 911 with equal power. However, restrictive exhaust or not, if it is restrictive, why is it so noisy? Does it really have the 997S heads that are at 93hp/L on the 355hp 997S? Maybe it just has a lazy cam. Who makes cams for this engine?

Everything I have read says the heads and cams are from, or are of the same profile as the 997S. As fars as other engines are concerned........I have driven several different versions of both the Nissan V6 and the BMW I6. The Nissan in particular has always left me a little flat......it never feels to me like all the horses are accounted for. It produces good numbers in most of the platforms it is installed in.......but if you really start looking at the acceleration curves of each......the torque of the engine is what makes those 0-60 numbers, afterthat they slow up a lot. To me its still missing some advertised HP. I have driven several M3s and never thought of that engine as quiet. It is a fast car, but you pretty much have to ring it out to get to all the power........it's not really loud, but the quality of the sound is very lacking IMO.

The M3, especially the convertible, is too heavy for the motor. Torque at the flywheel doesn't do anything. Torque at the wheel does, and its horsepower curve. Does the Nissan have a short power curve? If a 3.4 had the same breathing as a 3.8 it would have a higher specific output and the shifted to the high end of the rev range. The Cayman appears to have the opposite. Having the same heads would make sense from a cost standpoint. They don't seem to have any fancy components (Ti valves & retainers, expensive valve springs, CNC machined ports/combustion chamber, etc.). However given how noisy it is, the exhaust can't be too restricted. The intake could be a little. The ECU could be conservative in ignition timing. Given that the cams are now integrated into the electronics for overlap, lift and duration, who can handle this? And what does it do to your warranty. is is just that for a $70-80k sports car, you would expect more than 4/10 sec and 3 mph in the 1/4 mile over a $32k Passat V6.

Sorry DaveNJ, but what on earth does the noise have to do with anything? The noise surely has no relationship to power or torque curves. Yes, the design of the exhaust system can alter the power and torque curves, but the noise that it makes is irrelevent, and is often tuned to a specific car to make it sound appealing to the clientel that the car is aimed at. And as for the $70k to $35k Passat comparison: If you want a 1/4 mile machine, you are looking at the wrong car here. There are hundreds of cars that can destroy the Cayman S in a straight line for significantly less money. But you must be able to see that that is not the point of this car. Jack

Jack, I completely agree with you. The point of the Cayman is to be a driver oriented car capable of taking exhilirating turns and able to perform well during track-like circumstances. Quarter mile cars and 0-60 times speak a lot for many number oriented car owners: my M_? can go 0-60 in blah blah, well my ?_63 can go 0-60 in blah blah and do the 1/4 mile in blah blah. The honest truth though is that the buyers of these sports sedans (notice I say buyers/owners.. not drivers) don't drive their car for pleasure, but for bragging rights to numbers. I'mnot too impressed by 0-60 times or 1/4 mile times sincethe rice rockets can be modified to deliver sub-11 second quarter miles (heck even an ancient but modified VW Buggy can do it in 9 seconds). The point is thesecarswere not built to deliver this performance from the start and had to be severely modified in order to perform as such.Owners of these super fast station wagons like to feel like they got more performance bang for the buck. As fast as the car can go in a straight line, it still isn't built to handle a track (hence the nurburgring track times come into play). Another thing is that they are limited at 155 mph for a reason... they are not aerodynamically tested to handle any faster. But to play devil's advocate, it can be frustrating to buy a $60K plus 'sports car' and not be able to burn lesser poseur sports 'sedans' off the road completely. Porsche definitely built a good marketing strategy.... for great handling, get a cayman or boxster. For extreme speed and power buy a carrera s or turbo! I know one thing for sure: I'd take no pride in saying that I own a fast 4 door, which is probably why I don't own one (and probably never will).

Jackwood is right except there are not hundreds. Only about a dozen current modiels are faster in a straight line. The Cayman's weakest link is still very strong.

I an not an expert on the subject, but I like to make a general comment, and hope some can correct me if need be - it was my understanding that people were able to measure approximate HP ratings of F1 cars ( which are of course not officially posted ) using sound recordings of the engine sound - am I totally off on this one ?

I believe they measure the revs base on exhaust noise or pulses within the noise. I think they estimate HP base on trap speed.

K-Man S, in your experience, what kind of $$$$ are we looking at for exhaust/intake mods on these??

maybe a bit too early, but let the mods begin /fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/MWPX/thumbsup.gif

I am thinking the same way. I would love to find an exhaust system that would add some HP and not screw up the warranty. It would seem to me any mods would have to be done by my Porsche dealer or an authorized mechanic. Aloha Russ

Intake and exhaust tracks are noisy. As are pistons with short skirts, solid lifters, etc. A tremendous about of volumetric efficency and resulting power is lost keeping the exhaust and intake quiet on a sedan. That the Cayman has the noise of an unrestricted intake and exhaust with the power of a fully muffled sedan is the problem. Yes, in olden times Porsches were slower than Corvettes and such. That was when LBJ and Richard Nixon were the presidents. in modern times Porsches have been near or at the front in performance. Electronics and variable cam and intake tuning have allowed cars to get much faster in recent years. For instance, who would have thought 5 years ago that Chevy, BMW, and MB would be selling 500_hp cars in quantity. The Passat reference is just to make clear, that Cayman performance levels are pretty mediocre by 2006 standards. If all you are interested in is handling, then a Miata would do. A perenial autocross and track day favorite. Spending the $$$ here implies a combination handling, performance, and luxury. And ridculous prices for things like footwell lights that were probably standard on a Pinto. David

But David, it has already been achnowledged in various other threads, and pretty much by Porsche themselves, that this motor is in a lower state of tune than is realisticaly possible. Raising the specific output too high would seriously negate the need for the 997. Yes it is an underpowered motor, and no it isn't cheep. But for what it is worth, it is a Porsche, and that means at least these people here are willing to pay a premium for it. I don't understand where you are coming from in this argument. I can't decide if you are trying to talk yourself out of splashing the cash on one, or are just attempting to point out to us infactuated, narrow-mindedindividuals, the foolishness of our prospective purchases By the way, I don't think it has footwell lights! And compared to the Passat, which has pretty much all the options as standard that are extras on the Cayman, it does make the picing of the Porsche look even more rediculous. Oh well! Jack

Classic, leave it to the english to be eloquent! Well put, that made me smile. David is right about one thing though: I bought #CXB Illuminated Stainless Steel Door Gaurds for something like $800.

The Cayman S' 3.4 liter flat six is so creamy at 6000 rpm that it can deceive a driver into thinking he or she is at, say, 4000 rpm.Back on curvy country lanes, both of us exit a few corners and trip the limiter. Every time, the boxer six felt and sounded like it was at 4000 rpm or so. But the needle was sitting at six grand, just 1300 rpm short of the rev-limiter. It's a mistake we haven't made in a 3.6 and 3.8 liter 997s -or -oddly, in a 3.2 liter Boxster S. The reason is this 3.4-liter version of the 987/997 motor feels far more eager than any of the three power plants listed above. The sprint from 6000 to 7300 rpm is positively electric, as if this engine is closer to the normally-aspirated GT family than its Boxster/Carrera roots should allow it to be. Like the underrated 3.4 liter engine Porsche used in its 1999-2001 996, the Cayman S' flat six is far more elastic than its cousins - as if this is the exact displacement, bore, and stroke it was really meant to have. The Cayman S engine shares its bore and stroke figures with the early 996, but the factory press kit says it's one cubic centimeter larger, at 3387 cc. These numbers are telling from another perspective, too: They indicate that there is more than a little extra power waiting to be unlocked from this latest 3.4-liter flat six...A 3.6 or 3.8-liter Cayman would be an absolute rocket ship - but the 3.4 liter six is a well-matched partner to a very willing chassis. A big part of the experience is that superlative sound, and 987 program head Hans-Jürgen Wöhler beams when he mentions that US-market Cayman S' will be a bit louder due to relaxed exhaust-noise restrictions stateside. He says it's the same tune, just more of it. Excellence December 2005

Jack: If they de-tuned, how did they detune it? Cams, ports, compression, ignition advance, intake, and exhaust are pretty much the only options. And no one can seem to point to any single thing. The noise level, 76dBA according to C&D at 70mph cruise, is high enough I doubt exhaust or intake are significantly compromised. Maybe they are just fibbing a little and it is underrated. I am looking for a comfortable, all-weather (except blizzards whenwe use the 2500 Yukon) car that I can take to a track day with a small tag along trailer carrying tires, jack, tools, and maybe a small nitrogen cylinder. Also considering the new Z06 and the M3. However, the Z06 seems to have a wide assortment of track issues. And the M3 is maybe a little too much sedan. MPollard: A very subjective analysis. The net is a regular 997S is within a wisker of a 996TT, probably with better throttle response. An X51 may be quicker. The Cayman is probably Porsche's second best chassis (after the Carrera GT) and should be able to take all of a 997's power and then some. This is a Boxster with a roof, and enjoys that cars great handling with a extra dose of chassis stiffness. There isn't much serious sports car competition in its price class: Corvette's at th bottom, BMW and maybe MB and Audi sedans, then Maseratis and the new low-end Aston Martin.

MPollard, I am drooling all over my paperwork, please still my beating heart! PS: I sure am glad my wife doesn't read these posts. She already thinks I'm wacky over this whole thing and I try to keep it on a low key around her. I just bought her a 2006 Honda CRV. I don't want to hear, 'why do you get a Porsche and I get a Honda'[/quote]? Of course we all know the answer to that one, 'cause your a girl!' No no!! Just kidding here gang. It's a holiday and I have to work so I have to have some fun here. Aloha Russ

My wide has a loaded E320CDI...she won't have any complaints on that front. However, she will say, why did you need this car? Weren't the other ones enough. On the engine question, the torque curve looks bogus. Why does it make a sharp right turn 4400 rpm. then flat for 1600 rpm, then a nosedive? This sounds like the ECU adjusting the timing to achieve a specfied limit.High power front wheel drive cars do this in the lower gears to prevent overwhelming the front tires. Making a more natural curve would appear to torque peak at around 5000 rpm. andmaybe power peak at around 330hp @6700-7000rpm. How hard is to reprogram Porsche ECUs?

The boxster s and cayman s torque curves are very similar. Now when you compare the torque curves to those of the 911, you see something very interesting: They are completely different! The Boxster/Cayman torque curve has thisraised plateau after 4000rpm. Compare it to the 911 (Carrera and Carrera S) and you'll see that the 911 torque curve starts where the boxster/cayman's peaks (230 lb-ft) and keeps going up (as opposed to flattening out). Yup, those cayman/boxster engines are detuned alright.

Russ, Your killing me are you sure it was drool? Patch

The potential is clearly there. The tuners will have a field day and we will <u>all </u>be paying for those upgrades.