Finally got a 718 GT4! - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Well this was a bit of a long and winding path to buying this car. I have fancied one ever since spending a bit of time in the 981 GT4. As a bit of a semi daily and occasional track car I always wanted a PDK so was delighted when they announced it for the 718 GT4. In 2022 I got a deposit down on a new one and actually got an allocation early this year but wasn't able to have all the spec as Porsche weren't able to supply the PCCB/Clubsport options so I passed on it. Kept an eye on the market this year on and off but couldn't resist some of the deals on offer recently so a deal was done with Porsche Swindon who were super easy to deal with and I picked up this 1400 mile car Friday First impressions are very good the steering seems to have a bit more feel than the 981 and theres a bit more compliance to the ride than I remember. The PDK certainly helps with the gearing it likes to fire up and down the box. The chassis and handling on the Caymans is always on point and its no different here. This car is in almost the exact same spec I would have ordered so very happy to have got it for a significant saving over new. And its been pre run in! Not really planning to modify it at all but will get it onto our Hunter and get some camber dialled in as with most OEM spec cars its clearly running a pretty tame geo setup so will get that sorted in the new year. Will likely invest in a set of PS4S tyres for road use maybe a second wheel set if one comes up without costing a fortune. Nurburgring is already booked for the summer maybe Spa later in the year too so looking forward to that!

Congratulations on the new toy Jon. It sounds like you got a decent deal on a fully loaded example.

Snap! Enjoy

A man of exceptional taste

Congrats. Great little christmas gift.

Congrats!! And snap!! [url] |https://thumbsnap.com/zXd3e7Rd[/url] I’m sure you’ve seen posts about those Dunlops. Don’t blame you wanting to change them! Great on warm dry days. Horrible at this time of year through. What’s the full spec? Is it CS?

Congrats - that looks amazing. Good on you for pulling the trigger rather than trying to pick the exact bottom of the market.

jackwood said: Congrats!! And snap!! [url] |https://thumbsnap.com/zXd3e7Rd[/url] I’m sure you’ve seen posts about those Dunlops. Don’t blame you wanting to change them! Great on warm dry days. Horrible at this time of year through. What’s the full spec? Is it CS? Another fine looking Cayman! Yeah I've never driven a car with these tyres but assumed they would be like cup 2. Yeah it's Clubsport with pccb I think there only thing it doesn't have is extended leather which is a bit annoying but there only other one with spec to match it sold before I could get to it and was a lot more expensive to be fair.

Not Ideal said: Congrats - that looks amazing. Good on you for pulling the trigger rather than trying to pick the exact bottom of the market. Yeah I'm sure a lot might miss the boat a bit although I can't see any huge price increases. I have no plans to be continually fretting about prices this will be with us a few years and will be used as much as possible.

Another good news story ... and the start of something really exciting Well done finding the right spec and deal !!

Merry Christmas all! On the Dunlop’s also.

Yeah no divving about or anything they were looking for a deal I was hot to trot and it was done in a couple of emails. Delighted with the car I'm so glad I pushed the button can't wait to get on track in the Spring.

That’s stunning Swindon are great to deal with aren’t they, best Porsche buying experience I’ve had. Edited by MrVert on Tuesday 26th December 22:23

Nice one Jon, lovely car.

Congrats! How does it compare to an Exige V6 s on the road Jon? Like most on here I’m always thinking of the next car and had the Lotus for a while now….

Funnily enough I know a lot of people recently have made the jump from V6 to GT4 it seems a natural progression. For road use this might be a shocker but I really prefer the GT4. The V6 cars for me are a bit fidgety and don't flow down the road like the S2 cars do. They are heavy for a Lotus and the weight at the back is quite pronounced on the V6. I always felt they should have had power steering too. I much preferred my old 410 Sport Evora which was a fantastic car. I'l always jump on a V6 for the business but they really aren't for me personally. An Evora or Cayman makes much more sense as a road car I'm not sure how the GT4 stacks up against the V6 on track I would guess they are similar. The V6S is certainly not that quick on track they are actually a bit slow in the corners. They really need the 460 Komotec kit to overcome the long gearing a bit and come alive. If I could only have one fun car though it would be the S2 Exige.

Thanks Jon, appreciate the response

fridaypassion said: Funnily enough I know a lot of people recently have made the jump from V6 to GT4 it seems a natural progression. For road use this might be a shocker but I really prefer the GT4. The V6 cars for me are a bit fidgety and don't flow down the road like the S2 cars do. They are heavy for a Lotus and the weight at the back is quite pronounced on the V6. I always felt they should have had power steering too. I much preferred my old 410 Sport Evora which was a fantastic car. I'l always jump on a V6 for the business but they really aren't for me personally. An Evora or Cayman makes much more sense as a road car I'm not sure how the GT4 stacks up against the V6 on track I would guess they are similar. The V6S is certainly not that quick on track they are actually a bit slow in the corners. They really need the 460 Komotec kit to overcome the long gearing a bit and come alive. If I could only have one fun car though it would be the S2 Exige. I was always a big Lotus fan and always had my plan to get an Exige when the time came. amongst my extensive (obsessive) research over the years I found a YouTube video by one of the German mags. That took the Exige and 981GT4 to I think Holkenheim for a head to head. To my disgust at the time the GT4 was a bit quicker. The racing driver reconned it was simply the GT4 has wider tyres giving it that little bit more grip particularly on exit where the Exige was getting quite a lot of oversteer.

fridaypassion said: Yeah no divving about or anything they were looking for a deal I was hot to trot and it was done in a couple of emails. Delighted with the car I'm so glad I pushed the button can't wait to get on track in the Spring. Who did you deal with at Swindon FP?

In my experience on track, GT4s and V6 Exiges are close enough in pace round a track for the driver to be the main difference. In the same hands, I think a GT4 (981 or 718) would be a bit quicker. (In my hands I find the Exige more fun on road and track, but that’s just me and others find the opposite, which is great)

Discombobulate said: Who did you deal with at Swindon FP? James who is a Lotus guy as well so obviously a good sort

ntiz said: I was always a big Lotus fan and always had my plan to get an Exige when the time came. amongst my extensive (obsessive) research over the years I found a YouTube video by one of the German mags. That took the Exige and 981GT4 to I think Holkenheim for a head to head. To my disgust at the time the GT4 was a bit quicker. The racing driver reconned it was simply the GT4 has wider tyres giving it that little bit more grip particularly on exit where the Exige was getting quite a lot of oversteer. Yeah that would make sense. The weight distribution in the car is much better in the Porsche too which will contribute towards the grip. You can get a nicely specced V6 considerably cheaper than a GT4 as well so the value for money probably does with with the Lotus. I've spent many years driving all the cars all the setups and all the different suspension etc and an S2 260 with Ohlins and LSD is the best I have found for road but the s2 is not a great platform for track so there are always sacrifices/strengths/weaknesses and it can be a lot of fun in life finding out what works for you.

Welcome to the GT4 club and lovely spec. I enjoyed reading your comments on the Exige Vs GT4 as I've had Lotus before my GT4. NA S2 Exige followed by an S 220 that I changed the suspension and brakes and used on track for about 10 years and I absolutely loved it. I eventually sold it as I hadn't used it properly for about 3 years, kids, work etc were my priority. Why did I sell it, worst mistake ever. I then bought a new 410 V6 Exige on the basis I had to buy something special before the world completely changed. Sadly that all went badly wrong, and much to my frustration Lotus UK were shockingly bad, so I only did 600 miles in it before it went back. But in that time I realised that my use case had changed and I was living in the past. It sounded great, handled like a Lotus and felt bloody quick on the road but it was just not quite as civilised as I'd imagined considering it appeared a little more grown up than the S2. On reflection it's stupid as I didn't test drive one before committing, due to where I live. The nail in the coffin was my Wife's first passenger ride when she said she wouldn't go on a long trip in it. Anyhow an opportunity opened for a new GT4 and so I stumped up the extra money and it's definitely the right car for me. The steering is numb in comparison, but the sophistication of the chassis is noticeable and whilst I don't daily it, it feels luxurious by comparison. The wind noise from the V6 was hilariously bad as well as the AC. I wish the GT4 sounded as good as the V6 but I think the V6 Exige has to be one of the best sounding cars, period. The engine makes up for it in the GT4, as the V6 ran out of go too early in my view. On track I'd be quicker in the GT4 than the 410 but I do think the Exige would be more satisfying with it's steering feel. Sorry I've just realised I've been typing away. Enjoy the GT4 and one day I'll have an S2 again or 2 eleven to sit next to mine.

Lovely spec congrats, be interesting to see what you think on track as I saw your slightly controversial comments about the 991.1RS RE GT4 Vs Exige V6 interesting reading your comments - I think the GT4 is quicker on a lap than any V6 made including the 430, which is interesting because the 430 was £20k more than the RRP of a 718GT4. Consider that even the old 981GT4 does a sub 2:20 lap at Silverstone whereas I've never seen or found a V6 doing sub 2:20 apart from the race Exige V6s in the old Lotus Cup rounds which were around 2:18. Johnny Cocker says 718GT4s can do a 2:17ish stock at Silverstone... I've followed many many V6s on track in my S2 Elige and can see exactly where they suffer - they just can't keep that big rear stable on turn in, they almost roll-oversteer - it's a big heavy engine that really suffers just with how physically tall it is - then they added a heavy lump of a supercharger and charge cooler on top too. All Lotus' including mine suffer from the compromise of having to use a FWD drivetrain - it's just that the S2s disguise it slightly better through lack of weight and a comparatively light engine - you have to remember that a V6 Exige is just an S2 Elise with a slightly wider track and longer wheelbase but has an extra 300kg stuffed in the rear. As per my post on FB I was shocked how fun my 718GT4 was on track (coming to it from an 800kg K20 swapped Elise) - I had expected it to feel a bit numb and detached - but with all the aids turned off it was almost magical - can't match an Elise for steering feel sure, but the messages are still there just a bit quieter in volume. Again as I previously said, the GT4 has an extra dimension over my Lotus on track just with the fun of managing exit oversteer - which has confirmed to me that the Lotus does need more power to be nearer to perfect.

Well the GT4/RS is the car that Porsche don't want to have as their halo car but it is for me. The first drive out in the 991 RS I was a bit...uh oh think I've made a booboo here it's just a deeply flawed car. On track it was ok when tyres are up to temp but still a bit boring really and they cost a fortune to run on track because they are just a frame over a set of absolutely massive rear tyres and that's where all the lap times come from. The Cayman is much better balanced the power delivery is much better with that mid range flat 6 punch where the RS was gutless unless you had 7k revs dialled in. It also sounds better inside the car which is where it counts for me. It's actually quite hard to express just how crap the GT3 RS was for 160k it's a complete joke I couldn't wait to get rid of it. You'd never believe it unless you went and bought one. All the owners that rave about them are on drugs honestly.

Congrats on the GT4. Great cars. In my opinion, first drives in a mid engined car make you feel more comfortable right off the bat, on road and track. Largely due to the turn in. To really understand a 991 GT3 or RS you need to be on an appropriate track and be comfortable driving it at pace/well. Only then will it make sense. They’re more tricky and I think rewarding at the limit. imho

I think it's easy to run away with lap time numbers ... herewith for the 981 GT4 which I own ... I have done 2:25's in mine ... I can tell you it feel very fast particularly when there is other traffic ... https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4 And the 718 GT4 and RS... https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-cayman-gt4-... https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-718-gt4-rs As for the GT3, it is a different car. Originally cars such as the 964RS which had no aids beyond a fairly crude ABS did require a driving style that to be effective made real use of the weight transfer ... requiring feel and learning and a certain amount of skill. Since then the engines have moved forwards, tyre sizes have changed, rear wheel steering has helped ... and there is no argument that the multilink rear suspension of the GT3 is an improvement over the very well developed rear suspension of the Cayman platform. Hence the cars have become easier to drive ... but still with an emphasis on getting the nose locked into the corner and the rest will follow ... and still with an emphasis on learning your car To be fair, in extremis this is exactly the same with the Cayman chassis ... it may be easier to lock the nose in but when you are "too fast" for a given driving style into the corner the car still wants to understeer ... and this is where the rear end of the Cayman can be less predictable than the tail end of a 911 ... Herewith the 991.2 GT3 times for comparison: https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-991... And the 991.2 GT3 RS .... https://fastestlaps.com/models/porsche-911-gt3-rs-...

Have to say my heart is warmed by the new wave of enthusiasm for the GT4, particularly for track day use. 2024 will be exciting!. Only thing I'll say about fastestlaps.com is that it's ok as reference but it is only based upon data that has been submitted, therefore people will have gone faster but not have submitted data.

I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ? If you look at the fastest lap times you will see some unexpected differences between cars, I guess for this reason ... but across the board they give a good impression of the competences of a wide variety of cars ... Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 29th December 14:39

ChrisW. said: I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ? There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events. Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually. I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup. It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one. If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0. Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11

Light wheel flywheel and shortened final drive are on my list so I'd be keen to also read any feedback from those who've done it.

TDT said: ChrisW. said: I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ? There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events. Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually. I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup. It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one. If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0. Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11 I don't know if you are around the York area but you would be welcome to try mine ... ? Obviously it's 981 from RPM but fitted by Strasse who seem to have done an exceptionally good job. My tickover is very even at around 650rpm with the Jens Ehressman live re-map ... even so there is very little idler rattle when stationary. The rev uplift is astonishingly fast and race-car'ish ... to be honest it's so fast that I sometimes hold the throttle slightly even on normal up-changes ... it's a very tactile experience particularly with the revised gear ratios, and of course it's heel and toe all the way on track with very fast changes in both directions ... As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ??

Excellent value… https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/pors...

TDT said: Excellent value… https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/pors... agree lot of car for the money. shows all those who are saying market is still strong are wrong. knowing romans they'll be trying to make at least 10k out of that.

Is it possible to have any thread that doesn't turn into a market and value discussion? It really is a Porsche owners disease this. Just drive the bloody cars!

fridaypassion said: Is it possible to have any thread that doesn't turn into a market and value discussion? It really is a Porsche owners disease this. Just drive the bloody cars! agree, but your opening post talks about keeping an eye on the market and how you couldnt resist the deals on offer. not about to hell with the money, i bought what i wanted and the money ain't a thing

fridaypassion said: Is it possible to have any thread that doesn't turn into a market and value discussion? It really is a Porsche owners disease this. Just drive the bloody cars! lol, ok fair enough.my bad… I’d prefer to stick on the driving theme also.

Sidsw said: agree, but your opening post talks about keeping an eye on the market and how you couldnt resist the deals on offer. not about to hell with the money, i bought what i wanted and the money ain't a thing Yeah but every other Porsche thread on here just goes towards discussing the market/specs/prices etc. Now I've bought one in not going to be on auto trader looking any more

ChrisW. said: TDT said: ChrisW. said: I wonder how long it will be before there are some seriously track-spec cars out and about ? There are quite a few around.... I have seen a number of cars have been getting power upgrade packages which take them to 455/460hp - comprised of Tune, BMC Filters, OAP bypass pipes and optionally LWFW. Hopefully they make it to some track events. Main other thing that people are playing with is tyres... with experimentation on A052s, which I would like to try myself actually. I continue to flip-flop on fitting my LWFW and Sports clutch - but kinda don't want to introduce any risk into my setup. It would give a nice pep in throttle response - which would be great for sharpening up gear changes a little - but it seems there are mixed results and its more of an experience modification than an actual speed one. If others have fitted would be great to hear your experiences - especially on the 9A2EVO 4.0. Edited by TDT on Friday 29th December 18:11 I don't know if you are around the York area but you would be welcome to try mine ... ? Obviously it's 981 from RPM but fitted by Strasse who seem to have done an exceptionally good job. My tickover is very even at around 650rpm with the Jens Ehressman live re-map ... even so there is very little idler rattle when stationary. The rev uplift is astonishingly fast and race-car'ish ... to be honest it's so fast that I sometimes hold the throttle slightly even on normal up-changes ... it's a very tactile experience particularly with the revised gear ratios, and of course it's heel and toe all the way on track with very fast changes in both directions ... As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ?? Unfortunately I’m not that close to you Chris, but I’m 65/35 on taking the plunge anyway, depending on if I can get a booking before the car goes for final setup before the start of the season. As for gearing… like you say… I think it’s a good fit for predominantly road use.

col68 said: Snap! Enjoy Kudos for the garage here too TX.

ChrisW. said: I don't know if you are around the York area but you would be welcome to try mine ... ? Obviously it's 981 from RPM but fitted by Strasse who seem to have done an exceptionally good job. My tickover is very even at around 650rpm with the Jens Ehressman live re-map ... even so there is very little idler rattle when stationary. The rev uplift is astonishingly fast and race-car'ish ... to be honest it's so fast that I sometimes hold the throttle slightly even on normal up-changes ... it's a very tactile experience particularly with the revised gear ratios, and of course it's heel and toe all the way on track with very fast changes in both directions ... As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ?? Assuming yours is a manual, I've often considered a GT4, have driven both 981 GT4 Manual and 718 PDK, I found both absolutely lovely cars to be in, but the gearing I also found quite annoying, even in the PDK car, I just wished they had GT4 RS gearing but for me there is no way a GT4 RS is worth the current 160k asking prices, but suspect they have quite a bit more to fall yet, considering just a few months back they were 200k plus, anyway if I drop into a GT4 is will most likely be a 981 GT4 manual as for me what I did really like was the sound track which in the 718 was less vocal, even more so from the outside, but at 60k for a 981 and 75k-80k for a 718 I think the prices are becoming fairer now but i'd need to sort the gearing out so be interested to hear more on cost, who can do it and reliability. In my M3 changing gearing was mega easy, buy a BMW motorsport ring and pinion with different final drive for about £400 and then find a differential builder to install and refresh the diff for about £1000. Something suggest to me in Porsche land its probably going to cost several times more so would be good to know and who can also do it please?

fridaypassion said: Yeah but every other Porsche thread on here just goes towards discussing the market/specs/prices etc. Now I've bought one in not going to be on auto trader looking any more Hi Jon I'd like to know more how your finding the GT4, having both owned GT3's and been somewhat disappointed and finding our McLaren 600 LT's far superior in both road and track manners, I'd be interested in how you compare the GT4, don't get me wrong I know lap time wise a GT4 has no chance against a 600 LT, but would still like to hear your feedback how the GT4, GT3 and 600 LT compare, also feel free to throw the 458 in the mix too. Very curious as a GT4 could be on the cards in the future.

Well great cars the GT4 for me I didn't have expectations of it measuring up directly to the likes of the 600LT but I really wanted one since they brought the PDK version out. The GT4 has a decent turn of speed the gearing in the PDK is notably lower its still reasonably tall but because I has that midrange torque you can still step up and down the box. Can't wait to get on track with it especially having seen Zaid's comparison with his GT4 and his excellent Honda S2 Exige. But from the first few drives I'm really impressed with it. I normally key into cars pretty quickly I'm old and grey enough now to know what I like. Being into the Lotus stuff sets an impractically high bar for judging other cars too so the 718 has done well to survive this far as I would have looked to move it on if didn't gel with it. Quite the opposite for now anyway! I would say Gibbo of all those cars the McLaren is the most complete. Money no object that's definitely a car you could bin off the rest of the collection and just have that one to do trackdays/road driving/touring etc its a fabulous all round car with excellent handling/suspension and steering plus its ballistically fast which is extremely addictive. The 458 gets the win for noise of course and theres something about the gearbox in that car that's really involving and an integral part of the car. Chassis is old school of course now and none of us miss the brakes! I think 2024 might see me selling the 600LT I have a couple of my Lotus collection up for sale as well currently looking to try and slim things down a bit and just use the stuff we do have more. I would look to probably get a 458 Spider to replace the 600 though in time but would like to get a coupe of storage places back!

If you’re looking for more rear camber it might be worth considering adjustable rear toe arms, I’ve tried dialling in more at the rear, but run out of adjustment on the toe link way before the camber was maxed out 982 Spyder though

fridaypassion said: Well great cars the GT4 for me I didn't have expectations of it measuring up directly to the likes of the 600LT but I really wanted one since they brought the PDK version out. The GT4 has a decent turn of speed the gearing in the PDK is notably lower its still reasonably tall but because I has that midrange torque you can still step up and down the box. Can't wait to get on track with it especially having seen Zaid's comparison with his GT4 and his excellent Honda S2 Exige. But from the first few drives I'm really impressed with it. I normally key into cars pretty quickly I'm old and grey enough now to know what I like. Being into the Lotus stuff sets an impractically high bar for judging other cars too so the 718 has done well to survive this far as I would have looked to move it on if didn't gel with it. Quite the opposite for now anyway! I would say Gibbo of all those cars the McLaren is the most complete. Money no object that's definitely a car you could bin off the rest of the collection and just have that one to do trackdays/road driving/touring etc its a fabulous all round car with excellent handling/suspension and steering plus its ballistically fast which is extremely addictive. The 458 gets the win for noise of course and theres something about the gearbox in that car that's really involving and an integral part of the car. Chassis is old school of course now and none of us miss the brakes! I think 2024 might see me selling the 600LT I have a couple of my Lotus collection up for sale as well currently looking to try and slim things down a bit and just use the stuff we do have more. I would look to probably get a 458 Spider to replace the 600 though in time but would like to get a coupe of storage places back! Thanks Jon looks like I need to try a GT4 at somepoint then, can you get PDK on 981’s and if so are the ratios same on 981 and 718? 458 gearing is so good simply because it’s so short as I remember 3rd been like 85mph so your always up and down the first five gears on the road due to how short they are and it’s such a good fast box.

981 GT4 was manual only.

Gibbo205 said: ChrisW. said: I don't know if you are around the York area but you would be welcome to try mine ... ? Obviously it's 981 from RPM but fitted by Strasse who seem to have done an exceptionally good job. My tickover is very even at around 650rpm with the Jens Ehressman live re-map ... even so there is very little idler rattle when stationary. The rev uplift is astonishingly fast and race-car'ish ... to be honest it's so fast that I sometimes hold the throttle slightly even on normal up-changes ... it's a very tactile experience particularly with the revised gear ratios, and of course it's heel and toe all the way on track with very fast changes in both directions ... As for pace, the gearing does make a difference but since gear changes take time it's track dependent ... great for hauling past a GT3 after a set-up corner ?? Assuming yours is a manual, I've often considered a GT4, have driven both 981 GT4 Manual and 718 PDK, I found both absolutely lovely cars to be in, but the gearing I also found quite annoying, even in the PDK car, I just wished they had GT4 RS gearing but for me there is no way a GT4 RS is worth the current 160k asking prices, but suspect they have quite a bit more to fall yet, considering just a few months back they were 200k plus, anyway if I drop into a GT4 is will most likely be a 981 GT4 manual as for me what I did really like was the sound track which in the 718 was less vocal, even more so from the outside, but at 60k for a 981 and 75k-80k for a 718 I think the prices are becoming fairer now but i'd need to sort the gearing out so be interested to hear more on cost, who can do it and reliability. In my M3 changing gearing was mega easy, buy a BMW motorsport ring and pinion with different final drive for about £400 and then find a differential builder to install and refresh the diff for about £1000. Something suggest to me in Porsche land its probably going to cost several times more so would be good to know and who can also do it please? All 981's are manual and you'll find information on the RPM Technik website .... the problem I have with the GT4RS is that I wonder if the 991.2 GT3RS (non Weissach) isn't a better car for similar money ?? Herewith gearing information ... on the GT4 revised crown wheel and pinion which I fitted with a lightweight flywheel and clutch ...

ChrisW. said: the problem I have with the GT4RS is that I wonder if the 991.2 GT3RS (non Weissach) isn't a better car for similar money ?? 991.2 3RS, 992 GT3 and 4RS, all within similar ballpark. I think it depends on what you want… more emotion or fun, or outright speed.

@ChrisW , ooh, thats nice, way better, more playfully I bet.

TDT said: ChrisW. said: the problem I have with the GT4RS is that I wonder if the 991.2 GT3RS (non Weissach) isn't a better car for similar money ?? 991.2 3RS, 992 GT3 and 4RS, all within similar ballpark. I think it depends on what you want… more emotion or fun, or outright speed. I wonder if the GT4RS is more fun / emotion ? The noise is good when you want it but not so good when you don't, yes the rear boot is useful but I don't use it now, the PDK gearing is the same, the dimensions are almost identical, the 991.2 GT3 has more ground force and rear wheel steering and the multilink rear ... accepting that centre locks are a PITA. And the GT4RS may be manufactured in large numbers (7000 units ?) whereas the 991.2 GT3RS in the UK number around 250? ... and most of them appear to be Weissach (again) ? And the GT3 has the 520PS engine ... The 991.2 GT3 is older ... but the first were pre-GPF and they are like the GT4RS a very analogue car ... unlike the 992's. Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 30th December 21:43

I suspect GT4 power delivery might be better for the road. I think the GT4 is well judged in terms of suspension for the road I don't think I would want it any firmer. I would love a GT4 at 120/130k but I would need a drive first.

I specced my ideal GT4RS at around £132k ... there isn't anything less than £155k and there are better Porsche's available for that price ... depending upon your focus. I'm also very fond of classic cars so the fewer technical complications of earlier cars really appeals to me ....

Best give it a wash at some point!

Looks great OP! I have been keeping an eye on GT4s for a while, currently waiting moving house so no purchases in the foreseeable, but hopefully towards the end of 2024. The Gentian Blue 718 GT4 posted above popped up on my saved searches and looks great.

Percy. said: The Gentian Blue 718 GT4 posted above popped up on my saved searches and looks great. It was sold by Saturday.

TDT said: It was sold by Saturday. No surprise!

TDT said: Excellent value… https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/pors... The manuals are much cheaper. I've been looking at these for a bit now and to walk in and buy one with my own money I'd want PDK (it just suits the car and engine more for me), a proper colour and maybe buckets, and then you're still looking at a good £90k. In fact that PTS (GTS Red) one I'm hankering over is £97k. The manuals, if that's what you want, represent insanely good value.

rawenghey said: TDT said: Excellent value… https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/pors... The manuals are much cheaper. I've been looking at these for a bit now and to walk in and buy one with my own money I'd want PDK (it just suits the car and engine more for me), a proper colour and maybe buckets, and then you're still looking at a good £90k. In fact that PTS (GTS Red) one I'm hankering over is £97k. The manuals, if that's what you want, represent insanely good value. Just keep your beady eye out my Nov 21 PDK was mid 70s with 2 years warranty and fresh OPC service and decent spec (buckets, pccb, Bose, PDLS+ etc). That car started off at £93k last August and was slowly chipped down until I got it for ~ £16k less at end of Nov.

fridaypassion said: Best give it a wash at some point! Try harder Jon

I'm catching you up Hugh its not had a wash yet in my ownership!

Well a few weeks in now and although we are in the winter (and on the Dunlops!) the 718 has surprised me in a good way! I have had a couple of 981s before all be it in my business rather than ones I have owned but I have had some decent seat time. I have to say the 718 is a huge improvement. As ever in the Porsche world a lot of what you hear is just not right sometimes due to YouTubers or jurnos that are too scared to correctly criticise the cars or people can get the old blinkers on... Anyway one thing I was not expecting having seen a few comparisons and reviews is the steering...wow! this is very much more detailed than the very wooly steering on the 981. I literally cannot believe that reviewers have reported that the old 981 setup was better it's night and day better on the 718. I gather it has some GT3 front suspension stuff? My old 991.1 RS had unexpectedly brilliant steering as well. Very good feedback and even loading up in the corners very much a highlight. It feels a lot quicker than the 981 much more urgent I would imagine this is a combination of the pdk and additional power. Suspension is decent although the setup is not perfect. I have a bit of a test route that in fairness does show up most cars a very rough bit of old pit area road the only cars that fly down there and remain composed tend to be Ohlins equipped Lotus but down there the GT4 can feel bouncy a sign that the springs aren't actually that well calibrated to the damping. On most roads however its been good if a little on the soft side even allowing the splitter to bottom out on a couple of occasions. Noise is a little quieter than the 981 of course and you do loose a bit of that lovely signature Porsche mechanical ticker sound. When I get chance I'll be pulling the exhaust flap vacuum off although I'm not too fussed about swapping the exhaust. Maybe something to get rid of the particulate filters in time. We have Donny booked for March so looking forward to getting out on track to properly stretch her legs a bit but so far so good. It will be really interesting when the roads warm up as normally in the winter cars don't really impress as they need leaning on to get the best out of them but the 718 appears to have that rare ability to be genuinely enjoyable to drive at the lower end of the envelope.

fridaypassion said: Well a few weeks in now and although we are in the winter (and on the Dunlops!) the 718 has surprised me in a good way! I have had a couple of 981s before all be it in my business rather than ones I have owned but I have had some decent seat time. I have to say the 718 is a huge improvement. As ever in the Porsche world a lot of what you hear is just not right sometimes due to YouTubers or jurnos that are too scared to correctly criticise the cars or people can get the old blinkers on... Anyway one thing I was not expecting having seen a few comparisons and reviews is the steering...wow! this is very much more detailed than the very wooly steering on the 981. I literally cannot believe that reviewers have reported that the old 981 setup was better it's night and day better on the 718. I gather it has some GT3 front suspension stuff? My old 991.1 RS had unexpectedly brilliant steering as well. Very good feedback and even loading up in the corners very much a highlight. It feels a lot quicker than the 981 much more urgent I would imagine this is a combination of the pdk and additional power. Suspension is decent although the setup is not perfect. I have a bit of a test route that in fairness does show up most cars a very rough bit of old pit area road the only cars that fly down there and remain composed tend to be Ohlins equipped Lotus but down there the GT4 can feel bouncy a sign that the springs aren't actually that well calibrated to the damping. On most roads however its been good if a little on the soft side even allowing the splitter to bottom out on a couple of occasions. Noise is a little quieter than the 981 of course and you do loose a bit of that lovely signature Porsche mechanical ticker sound. When I get chance I'll be pulling the exhaust flap vacuum off although I'm not too fussed about swapping the exhaust. Maybe something to get rid of the particulate filters in time. We have Donny booked for March so looking forward to getting out on track to properly stretch her legs a bit but so far so good. It will be really interesting when the roads warm up as normally in the winter cars don't really impress as they need leaning on to get the best out of them but the 718 appears to have that rare ability to be genuinely enjoyable to drive at the lower end of the envelope. Think it's accepted that the rear suspension design is a little bit sub ideal but it doesn't really hamper it too much, though it can be sorted if you want to spend £££ https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09 This is an interesting little write up from Evo back when the 718GT4 came out essentially agreeing with what you said

If you want to be faster than fun on track then tuition (they call it coaching) is worth a fortune. The biggest performance difference that you will make from a starting point of fun, is coaching ... and this also pays huge dividends on the road where you realise how much your NCBonus is worth !

honda_exige said: Think it's accepted that the rear suspension design is a little bit sub ideal but it doesn't really hamper it too much, though it can be sorted if you want to spend £££ https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09 Talking with Center Gravity last week, they are thinking of reviving this project on a new car, as the previous UK car that this was done on is no longer with us. Will be interesting to watch as a showcase. But really GT4 as a package is brilliant and you don’t need to do much to just have a great time, or just do some little tweaks to sharpen it. Edited by TDT on Sunday 14th January 22:00

fridaypassion said: Well a few weeks in now and although we are in the winter (and on the Dunlops!) the 718 has surprised me in a good way... Great write up, Jon. Thanks. A lot of us are interested how you find the 718 GT4 over time. Your point about steering feel at road speeds is particularly interesting to me as this was the nail in the coffin for my 981 GT4 (from an engagement rather than outright performance perspective).

yeah I had no big expectations of the car in that regard as its certainly at the forefront of thoughts on the 981 its very unengaging on the steering but a very nice surprise on this one for sure.

Sorting out the suspension improves the steering feel of the 981 GT4, but it's still not as good as a Cayman R ...

ah the old hydraulic steering racks those really were the days!

Surprised about the comments on the steering feel Jon. Perhaps the 718 GT4 Spyder is different to the 718 GT4? When I tried the spyder after stepping out of the 981 GT4 I couldn’t believe how much worse the steering was in terms of feel - more numb and less feeling. Of course everyone is looking for somethIng different or perhaps the steering varies from car to car. As a serial Lotus owner (not as much as you ) steering for me is pretty much at the top of my list. Have you compared back to back out of interest ? Either way it’s great you are happy with it.

Not sure on the differences re the Spyder but the two 981s I spent time in one was stock one had the full MR handling kit and centre gravity treatment. The MR car felt very planted and was a good improvement but both of those cars I could drive around for an hour and file them under "meh" largely due to the lack of strong feel. As a Lotus owner you'll know all other cars are a bit rubbish to a degree as we're spoilt with the steering and handling. One set of cars I did drive back to back was the 991RS and 981 gt4 as the GT4 came in my work as I had just sold my 911. The differences were night and day on the steering. The 718 even does that writhing sensation around the dead ahead and the only other car I've known that in is a Lotus. The weighting up in corners is an improvement over the 911.1 RS so they have obviously been busy with the steering. The only car with power steering I remember properly loading up in corners was the Evora so these comparisons are high praise. It's always good when a car exceeds expectation it rarely happens!

Took delivery of my new GT4 last year & loaded it with most things - pdk, ceramics, extended leather, 18 way sports seats (buckets not available) LED’s plus a load more. It’s simply ace to drive and now only available on the used market to buy as is no more.

Best colour! Yes I actually had an allocation come up about a year ago almost to the day and that couldn't do the CS or the PCCB at that time so I cancelled it.

I was lucky with my allocation. It was originally scheduled for August/Sept 2022, when there was loads of options not available. Ceramics, buckets, LED, yellow stitching etc all came on and off while the build kept getting pushed back. My spec changed half a dozen times. Literally on the day before it locked the new LED PDLS was the last thing to come back on the list. It was all a bit of a rollercoaster but worth sticking it out to the end. I have to say a huge thank you to all the posters on PH that kept us up to date on options that dropped off and came back on again and made it possible for me to update my spec as I went along.

Another one in the best colour Hold on did they actually make these in any other color?

fridaypassion said: Another one in the best colour Hold on did they actually make these in any other color? I reckon 100% of the last 6 months of production were in this (new for MY23) colour….. lol

Finally managed to get on track for the first time yesterday a peril of buying in December! got to Donington with RMA. Settled into it really quickly the EXC/TC was off on the second session such was my confidence in the handling. Brakes as ever were absolutely solid all day the PCCB is an essential option on these cars imho. I didn't get the chance to get on the Hunter before this trackday so the car is completely stock at the moment. The lack of camber on the front really shows with a bit of understeer on the GP circuit hairpin. This same lack of camber does really make the steering very nice on the road though! So a good day its not the quickest thing in the world but certainly entertaining. I'm thinking of having the OPF bypass pipes I have been told they release a fair bit of power on the 718 does anyone have any feedback on this?

As you were at the RMA day on Friday, you’ll may have received the noise email or seen the note making the rounds on social media that tracks are having to tighten up further and will actually be recalibrating their noise meters to read cars higher in order to pass the council noise quotas …. so if you want to do trackdays in the Uk… don’t touch your exhaust… or if you do, get ready to invest in some trackday silencers as well.. Not to mention the legality issues… That aside, yes removing OPF would unleash a decent chunk of hp and sound… you may well also need a remap to at least extinguish the check engine light… all told you might gain the region of 25-30HP, and torque will be up 20-30NM. The key thing, especially with a remap to add extra fuelling, is that the will be gains right across the rev range. I haven’t touched my car from an exhaust or drivetrain PoV… I’ve focussed on ‘clubsporting ’ the handling and braking and upgrading the driver. Edited by TDT on Saturday 9th March 19:13

Yeah I saw Leyton got issues in his stock GT3 RS. could always get some DB killers for trackdays?

fridaypassion said: Yeah I saw Leyton got issues in his stock GT3 RS. could always get some DB killers for trackdays? 718 tips are removable… so bolt-on options exist or you can look at something stuffed into the pipes.

fridaypassion said: PCCB is an essential option on these cars imho. They really aren't.

Well they are but not necessarily just for braking performance it's the unsprung weight that really releases the steering feel. That's science. If course on track you can lean on them all day without a grumble or fade.

fridaypassion said: Finally managed to get on track for the first time yesterday a peril of buying in December! got to Donington with RMA. Settled into it really quickly the EXC/TC was off on the second session such was my confidence in the handling. Brakes as ever were absolutely solid all day the PCCB is an essential option on these cars imho. I didn't get the chance to get on the Hunter before this trackday so the car is completely stock at the moment. The lack of camber on the front really shows with a bit of understeer on the GP circuit hairpin. This same lack of camber does really make the steering very nice on the road though! So a good day its not the quickest thing in the world but certainly entertaining. I'm thinking of having the OPF bypass pipes I have been told they release a fair bit of power on the 718 does anyone have any feedback on this? I done Donny GP last year in mine, really enjoyed it. I haven't gone all out on modifications on mine, but I have had some camber shims put on the front to allow for some increased camber adjustment, might be placebo affect but I feel like they really helped the handling. I was going to do OPF delete as well, but in the end I decided against it as I couldn't be bothered with the agg it would most likely bring, and would probably break noise restrictions on track as previously mentioned.

QQ, are you guys insured on track with your current provider or a 3rd party insurer or do you not bother (I'm in two minds atm myself)?

cseven said: QQ, are you guys insured on track with your current provider or a 3rd party insurer or do you not bother (I'm in two minds atm myself)? I'm insured via ClassicLine road/track policy. Cheap but an accident on track does affect no claims and has to be declared going forward I believe for all road policies. Stand alone more expensive but crashes have no bearing on your road policy. That's what I've been told anyway.

I dont have insurance no. I take it fairly steady in the more expensive cars and stick to the lower number days. With RM there are about half the number of cars on track normally. It as a fully booked day but not a queue all day. A few red flags (because Donington) but generally quiet out on track.

honda_exige said: Stand alone more expensive but crashes have no bearing on your road policy. I'd check that because if you make a claim arising from an accident it may go on MID which is searched by insurers as part of policy acceptance. That's why non-fault claims go on there and still affect renewals as you have been identified as a 'risk'

fridaypassion said: I dont have insurance no. I take it fairly steady in the more expensive cars and stick to the lower number days. With RM there are about half the number of cars on track normally. It as a fully booked day but not a queue all day. A few red flags (because Donington) but generally quiet out on track. Fair play to you but you boys are the reason I steered clear of a GT4 and ended up with a GTS . Arse ragged out of the car whilst some bloke goes racing on the cheap then back into the OPC network and sold with one careful owner to some unsuspecting Buyer . Don't think I necessarily disapprove , perhaps we should start a Thread on the perils of buying a used GT4

You found your set of these in the frunk, right?! FML.

reddiesel said: fridaypassion said: I dont have insurance no. I take it fairly steady in the more expensive cars and stick to the lower number days. With RM there are about half the number of cars on track normally. It as a fully booked day but not a queue all day. A few red flags (because Donington) but generally quiet out on track. Fair play to you but you boys are the reason I steered clear of a GT4 and ended up with a GTS . Arse ragged out of the car whilst some bloke goes racing on the cheap then back into the OPC network and sold with one careful owner to some unsuspecting Buyer . Don't think I necessarily disapprove , perhaps we should start a Thread on the perils of buying a used GT4 Your GTS might have been one of the Porsche Experience Centre ones But yeah but not buying the car you really wanted because it might have been on track at some point is absolutely wild.

Often the track cars are better looked-after than the non track ones. Maybe a few more stone chips. God forbid!

reddiesel said: Fair play to you but you boys are the reason I steered clear of a GT4 and ended up with a GTS . Arse ragged out of the car whilst some bloke goes racing on the cheap then back into the OPC network and sold with one careful owner to some unsuspecting Buyer . Don't think I necessarily disapprove , perhaps we should start a Thread on the perils of buying a used GT4 There are plenty of people that don't track them each to their own but it's a GT4 they are supposed to be hammered around track. Not all of them will be far from it actually. One with sofas is unlikely to be tracked I would say maybe have a close look at club sport cars with steel brakes that has to be the hardcore track drivers weapon of choice. Edited by fridaypassion on Tuesday 12th March 20:16

reddiesel said: fridaypassion said: I dont have insurance no. I take it fairly steady in the more expensive cars and stick to the lower number days. With RM there are about half the number of cars on track normally. It as a fully booked day but not a queue all day. A few red flags (because Donington) but generally quiet out on track. Fair play to you but you boys are the reason I steered clear of a GT4 and ended up with a GTS . Arse ragged out of the car whilst some bloke goes racing on the cheap then back into the OPC network and sold with one careful owner to some unsuspecting Buyer . Don't think I necessarily disapprove , perhaps we should start a Thread on the perils of buying a used GT4 Didn't you know that porsche built these cars for "Rebels (to) Rebel On" ? I've recently sold my GT4 which had done around 70 track days, used no oil between 3,500 mile oil changes, compression tested to within 1% across all cylinders, and passed a three hour detailed inspection by RPM Technik with flying colours ... total 35,000 miles in my ownership over eight years. Porsche build VERY good cars ....

Spot on @ChrisW. I have done more than a few, but not loads of track days with my 981 GT4 so far. I have only replaced tyres, brake pads and discs so far, with genuine Porsche parts for the brakes. Doesn't use much oil, doesn't get too hot, never had the grease melt and leak out of the wheel bearings or any of the other stuff most road cars end up doing on track. Most of all, I have at least a modicum of mechanical sympathy, and it is clearly a car built for me to drive as hard as I dare without feeling like I am torturing it. They are built for it. @reddiesel, the sad news is that I have a GTS 4.0 as well now, and a couple of people have told me you can do exactly the same with them too. (Although I'm not sure the brakes look built for the same level of resilience on a warm day. ) So you might have ended up with a GTS that's been doing the same job... I certainly wouldn't hesitate to drive it as quickly as I safely can on the track. Many years back, a friend that had raced a lot of cars (and motorcycles) over the years reckoned his GT3 was the first road car he'd ever known that was genuinely built to put up with track days, and then going to work the next day. He made a good point, and it has survived him! Liam