WIll you still buy a GT4 if it's a 2l turbo - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Few rumors stating the Cayman GT4 will be the 4 pot turbo, circa £80k views on this ? most OPC now have 10+ waiting lists on these cars with expected rare cars to be like normal , ie. 3/4 per OPC. IF it's a 4 pot turbo are you going to pay your 10k deposit ? I am 2nd on the list and am finding it hard to fall in love with the 4 pot turbo idea. But it might be great.

Not a chance in hell - I wouldn't pay £40k for it.

I dont think it will be a 4 pot turbo, my guess is it will be a flat 6 NA with around 380 bhp. Either way, I am sure its going to be PDK and for that reason Ahm Oot!

Leeds OPC reckon around £70k and probably not getting called GT4.

This is always going to get a negative reaction as people perceive they need 6 pot in their Cayman as that's how it's always been done! I'd need to see a hear the benefits. Main ones being weight, balance, power delivery and induction noise.

Depsite the early indications of a 3.8 450bhp twin turbo, I thought it was pretty much accepted now that it will be a 3.4 flat 6 with arounnd 370-380bhp. Where did the 2l turbo rumours come from?? I would have to think very carefully about my slot should they go down the turbo route.

No way. I've got one 4 pot turbo in the garage already. I want a different experience in my other car.

Rumour has it VW have a few engines left over from the LT van and the car will be badged Cayman 924..????

It won’t be a 2L turbo so the question is pointless. Maybe the GT4 after that will be but for now it isn’t.

EricE said: It won’t be a 2L turbo so the question is pointless. Maybe the GT4 after that will be but for now it isn’t. who not, it could be seen as a way to bring the new engines in early in some thing more exciting, then that filters down and owning a 4 pot turbo is then accepted once the normal models come out. It's not like the GT4/R is coming out any time soon any way prob a my16 car available sept 2015. it could be, this is what we can do, now buy the normal models.

If they saved a worthwhile amount of weight then a 4 cylinder car could be appealing to me. Seems highly unlikely though.

Might as well buy a Golf.

sfboy said: Might as well buy a Golf. not as daft as it sounds, the new mk3 TT in RS form is going to have one of todays best engines imo the 5 pot 2.5L turbo. I love that engine, the power is amazing , the sound from a 5 pot cool and performance a plenty. Audi could get the new TTRS so right.

ellroy said: Leeds OPC reckon around £70k and probably not getting called GT4. Correct. It is going to be the new Cayman R and that is all.

Will we see a new Spyder along soon!

mrdemon said: not as daft as it sounds, the new mk3 TT in RS form is going to have one of todays best engines imo the 5 pot 2.5L turbo. I love that engine, the power is amazing , the sound from a 5 pot cool and performance a plenty. Audi could get the new TTRS so right. Have you seen the new TT? It's a barge. It looks like an A4 that ate far too many pies. I find it hard to take you seriously when you compare a go-faster TT to anything remotely credible as a sports car.

sfboy said: Might as well buy a Golf. Golfs Rule

keep it lit said: sfboy said: Might as well buy a Golf. Mk 1 Golfs Rule EFA

keep it lit said: Golfs Rule in terms of being massively overrated Edited for accuracy. The MK 7 Golf is God in car form to every car journalist and is, bizarrely, also wholly and remarkably average and massively overpriced. A decent Golf is about £28k! Off topic, but it gets up my nose that nobody points out how bad VFM a lot of these cars are. Porsche will start down that road if it puts a turbo 4 pot in a Cayman and tries to tell me its still a proper Porsche.

n17ves said: Depsite the early indications of a 3.8 450bhp twin turbo, I thought it was pretty much accepted now that it will be a 3.4 flat 6 with arounnd 370-380bhp. Where did the 2l turbo rumours come from?? I would have to think very carefully about my slot should they go down the turbo route. Turbos are coming to both the mid-engine cars and 911. It's not if, it's when. Porsche has to spend that development money at some point. If they want to quicken the acceptance of said motors, the best way to do it is in a higher performance car that would seem to be more appealing, to showcase what the engine can offer and to ensure folks are interested in the regular models.

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Goofnik said: n17ves said: Depsite the early indications of a 3.8 450bhp twin turbo, I thought it was pretty much accepted now that it will be a 3.4 flat 6 with arounnd 370-380bhp. Where did the 2l turbo rumours come from?? I would have to think very carefully about my slot should they go down the turbo route. Turbos are coming to both the mid-engine cars and 911. It's not if, it's when. Porsche has to spend that development money at some point. If they want to quicken the acceptance of said motors, the best way to do it is in a higher performance car that would seem to be more appealing, to showcase what the engine can offer and to ensure folks are interested in the regular models. Yes, but my point was that I've not read / heard of anything to suggest that this was even being considered for the GT4 (unless somone can point me to somewhere that says otherwise). All the information that has surfaced recently suggest it will be a 3.4.

mrdemon said: Few rumors stating the Cayman GT4 will be the 4 pot turbo, circa £80k views on this ? most OPC now have 10+ waiting lists on these cars with expected rare cars to be like normal , ie. 3/4 per OPC. IF it's a 4 pot turbo are you going to pay your 10k deposit ? I am 2nd on the list and am finding it hard to fall in love with the 4 pot turbo idea. But it might be great. This is one of the most ridiculous statements you have made on PH. But fair play to you for creating a debate.

keep it lit said: standard That's a PROPER Golf!

Turbo. I would not. Naturally aspirated. Yes. I know most cars will end up with turbos and / or electric motors, but for as long as I can drive naturally aspirated then I will do so.

A BIG FAT NO IF ITS TURBO 4 POT but i am also under the impression its going to be a 3.4 producing 370-380hp with a base price of £70-80k

holy s t - so £85k with a few options !! yes yes I know new v old but that is 997 turbo S money

Engine from the Golf R? With a bit of tuning, could be epic despite knack of heritage. Still, £80k a stretch and makes you appreciate what a bargain the GT3 was.

Not necessarily related to the GT4/CR, but these sound like four-cylinder prototypes testing at the Ring recently: http://youtu.be/b1Yr3DiNOig http://youtu.be/YXAibs8hNEM

It'd have to be a flat 4 surely?? oh wait hang on... water cooled flat 4 turbo into a beetle... where have I seen that before!! Anyway back to the question... Would I still buy it? Probably But lets look at what it'll do for Porsche... Its a turbo, its mid-engined and its PDK. It'll appeal to everyone. The 991Gt3 opened the door to non 911 people because it was PDK... the GT4 will open the door to people that would normally consider a turbo. On another note I spoke to an OPC today that said they weren't even sure its going to be a retail model, it might just be a race car. Yes I know huge pinch of salt...

Crystal Ball time. I think the Turbo engined cayman will be the Cayman 'Turbo' and will have 425Bhp, I can't see it using a 2L engine to produce that amount of power so I will go with a 3.4L engine. The Cayman 'GT4' will have a tuned 3.4L NA engine with 380Bhp. It's not like Porsche to stick the 3.8L engine into the Cayman, they can save weight with a smaller engine.

Some utter tripe speculation on here, lads! The GT4 won't be anything like a Turbo! It will be aimed at a similar market to the GT3. To be honest, I can't see any market for a Cayman Turbo. An AWD Cayman? Nah. Surely not.

You don't need 4WD to put down 425bhp in a Cayman. The RUF 3800S is 2WD only and that runs a 420BHP 3.8L NA engine. I just think the Porsche Marketing Dept. will do everything it can to avoid placing the 3.8L engine into the Cayman.

Carl_Docklands said: You don't need 4WD to put down 425bhp in a Cayman. The RUF 3800S is 2WD only and that runs a 420BHP 3.8L NA engine. I just think the Porsche Marketing Dept. will do everything it can to avoid placing the 3.8L engine into the Cayman. I bet it's a hoot in the wet/snow. But the whole point of a Turbo is that it is effortlessly, all-weather fast and comfortable. You'd have to make the Cayman a big fat AWD mess to bring that kind of thing to the 2-seater. To me, a more powerful Cayman makes so little sense as a mini Turbo (which doesn't even make sense to me as a concept) but so much sense as a mini GT3.

Carl_Docklands said: Crystal Ball time. I think the Turbo engined cayman will be the Cayman 'Turbo' and will have 425Bhp, I can't see it using a 2L engine to produce that amount of power so I will go with a 3.4L engine. If Golf can get 400 hp out of their bread and butter 2L EA888 four cylinder (see Golf R 400) and the 360 hp AMG A45 2L engine can be remapped to do that too then I don’t see a reason why Porsche can’t do 425 hp with a bespoke flat four. It could be a 2.5L for all we know. As for AWD in the Cayman, it is guaranteed to come once the 918 hybrid technology trickles down. Combustion engine driving the rear axle, electric motors with real torque vectoring driving the front axle. There’s no way around it unless Porsche is fine with quick hatchbacks (A45, Golf R, RS3, whatever) leaving their sports car in the dust off the line. (hint: they are not, no matter how well balanced the chassis is in comparison) With that being said the GT4 (or new Cayman R) will have a 370 hp 3.4L NA flat six.

The Porsche accounting machine will make use of whatever engine is the most profitable. Thats the bottom line... we wont get anything sexy.. we'll get whatever is cheapest. If thats a turbo then its a turbo, if that is the case then, the annoying thing with that will be that once this cooking version is out the later lesser models will be lots cheaper and only a 'chip' away from matching it. Actually thinking about it, regardless of what the GT4/R is the next generation of turbo'd Caymans will only be a chip away from 450+BHP Never mind which engine it'll have or not have... lets get the important question out there... Will it come with deviated stitching?

[quote=EricE] If Golf can get 400 hp out of their bread and butter 2L EA888 four cylinder (see Golf R 400) and the 360 hp AMG A45 2L engine can be remapped to do that too then I don’t see a reason why Porsche can’t do 425 hp with a bespoke flat four. It could be a 2.5L for all we know. /quote] Fair points, I think the VW 400hp-alike engine will have too much Turbo lag to make it into a Porsche without an electric hybrid motor giving it assistance. For me, the use of a 2L or 2.5L engine is also ruled out on the basis that it needs to take a hammering on track, I can't see heavily boosted smaller unit delivering the goods.....yet I think its cheaper for Porsche to use one of their off the shelf engines for this generation, it may well make its way into the 982 generation cars. As an aside, I really like the R400 as a concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuztaVjpWug

I thought the 380bhp was the 2.5l The smalller Bhp entry cars will be the 2l The torque will be nice but not in keeping with the car format. As I said rather the TTRS with there 5pot turbo and a few tweeks, I am sure the mk3 will be good. At lease it's light. I have a sports car for driving "the Spyder" Let's hope some are right and it will be the 3.4 but not easy to get 380bhp from that without work. Tuned cars with 200sport cats bigger intakes and remaps with flowed manafolds are at 365bhp. So it has to be a detuned 3.8 . Still think it's going to be the launch of the 2.5l turbo and so does my OPC.

OPCs don't know anything about the cars that they have in stock, let alone Porsche's development plans The 'Ring car didnt sound like a 6-cyl to me, that's for sure, but we already knew that Porsche is developing flat fours so it's not really news and doesn't tell us a lot about the GT4. When the turbo 4 does come, it'll probably be quite good. Journos will love it, obviously, because they are morons, but it will probably sound OK and have little lag relatively progressive power for a small turbo engine. I think paying some geek £500 to mess about with its mapping to get more horses and 'torques' would be idiotic for the same reason that I think the R400 is a bad idea.

NA 3.8 Flat-6... Almost certainly. NA 3.4 Flat-6... Probably. TT 2.5 Flat-4... Maybe. I would, however, like it badged as a GT4 though (as opposed to an 'R', GTS-R etc). Some of the renders have been stunning so I am not willing to say 'no' even if it is a small capacity turbo engine. Do we know when the specs are going to be released? Feels like some of you will have £10k held by the OPC for a long time! Ok, I may end up missing out by not putting my money down now but I am not sure I want my £10k anywhere other than my bank until I know what engine this car will have and what it looks like etc. Then I'll have a test drive (though I assume it'll be brilliant, handling-wise, regardless) and only then will I crack out my cheque book... Do we even know if it will be seriously 'limited' in production numbers? The 'R' wasn't a huge seller at the time, so should we expect this to be?

My opc reckons its the 3.8 l engine ,so basically no one really knows.

I m not sure whether this has been posted before but 3.4l power levels seem to be managed between 981S, GTS and Carrera via the ECU See Post #11 http://www.planet-9.com/981-cayman-boxster-modific...

Interesting question and interesting voting results

Steve Rance said: Interesting question and interesting voting results very, there will a lot of people dropping out if they go turbo it seems

Probably the 3.4 from the current 991 once the gen 2 is launched and boggo Carrera has different engine.

This is all a bit "Angry Frank" for me. "Oi, Porsche. No! Not you as well...." www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqncRvQHWk

mrdemon said: Steve Rance said: Interesting question and interesting voting results very, there will a lot of people dropping out if they go turbo it seems But will that actually matter? If it is to be a strictly limited production then they only need enough buyers to take the allocation, in which case they can pretty much build and sell whatever they like. It isn't as if whatever they go with will detract from the certainty that (a) it will be the fastest Cayman that they have ever offered and (b) it will be excellent to drive by any objective measure (given that the car that it is based on is essentially the class benchmark). Much like the 991 GT3 found a market not extensively comprising owners of the previous cars, the hot Cayman could just as easily find a market as a PDK flat 4 turbo with very few previous Cayman R owners taking them on.

n17ves said: Depsite the early indications of a 3.8 450bhp twin turbo The sweet spot for road cars is ~200bhp/tonne so a 1200kg/280bhp 'R' with a nicely responsive motor and 40mpg will do me just fine. You power monsters can wait for the GT2. SS7

200bhp/ton is pants.

shoestring7 said: n17ves said: Depsite the early indications of a 3.8 450bhp twin turbo The sweet spot for road cars is ~200bhp/tonne so a 1200kg/280bhp 'R' with a nicely responsive motor and 40mpg will do me just fine. You power monsters can wait for the GT2. SS7 Is that a fact? ...maybe if you like waiting an eternity between gear changes! IMHO 300/bhp tonne with a responsive, normally aspirated engine (manual of course) is the sweet spot for a road/occasional track car. 380bhp will do just nicely for the gt4

shoestring7 said: The sweet spot for road cars is ~200bhp/tonne so a 1200kg/280bhp 'R' with a nicely responsive motor and 40mpg will do me just fine. You power monsters can wait for the GT2. SS7 you need to try an Ariel Atom with 320HP and 550kg. now that will bring a trouser movement for you

n17ves said: Is that a fact? ...maybe if you like waiting an eternity between gear changes! IMHO 300/bhp tonne with a responsive, normally aspirated engine (manual of course) is the sweet spot for a road/occasional track car. 380bhp will do just nicely for the gt4 on the plus side our Cayman R's will sky rocket in price if it is a turbo, looks like I will have to keep it a bit longer and put the super car ownership on hold a bit.

mrdemon said: Steve Rance said: Interesting question and interesting voting results very, there will a lot of people dropping out if they go turbo it seems I think you over estimate the views of Pistonhead forums compared to the real world. Lets face it...in the past 5 years, Pistonheads Porsche forum has shrunk considerably. You would be surprised how many people make a judgement on a Porsche purchase and spec that don't rely/care about the opinions of PH forum. How many people who voted would actually be in the market for a GT4? Just trying to give some sense of perspective to a poll like this in the car enthusiasts world

KMF said: shoestring7 said: The sweet spot for road cars is ~200bhp/tonne so a 1200kg/280bhp 'R' with a nicely responsive motor and 40mpg will do me just fine. You power monsters can wait for the GT2. SS7 you need to try an Ariel Atom with 320HP and 550kg. now that will bring a trouser movement for you Will it? I've piloted vehicles with 190bhp and less than 300kgs. But in-between very occasional blasts of full throttle acceleration for a couple of seconds it pretty much defined frustration on the road. SS7

For me: as long as it corners like it's on rails, sounds great and goes faster than the 911's I will be happy. Personally I would like to see turbo and hybrid one day (like the latest F1 cars and the 918). Mind you ... if they do a normally aspirated 3.8 litres flat 6 Cayman I would be queuing at the door tomorrow as I'm just about to pick up my GTS

andymw said: For me: as long as it corners like it's on rails, sounds great and goes faster than the 911's I will be happy. Personally I would like to see turbo and hybrid one day (like the latest F1 cars and the 918). Mind you ... if they do a normally aspirated 3.8 litres flat 6 Cayman I would be queuing at the door tomorrow as I'm just about to pick up my GTS I would say that yours is the common view of the typical new buyer.

mollytherocker said: I would say that yours is the common view of the typical new buyer. I agree. I doubt a turbo 4 pot could sound 'great', though. If it has a sound actuator (or whatever they are called), I'll shed a silent tear.

I think it comes down to the old question 911 owners face, more power with turbo or less power with Na. I don't think 4 pot is a deal breaker if it brings supercar pace with it. With the new golf producing 400hp Porsche cannot release a range topping halo cayman with a turbo running anything less than that figure so, the question is not just a pitch between Na vs turbo engine types, It's also less power vs more. In the turbos favour. I think a 425bhp turbo cayman would sell well.

Carl_Docklands said: I think a 425bhp turbo cayman would sell well. Porsche knows this too, that’s why they try not to build one.

golf producing 400hp is a concept car, you cannot buy it. we can all tune cars, my golf in a frock was 430bhp and you can tune those to 650bhp. the 4 pot will never sound nice though, I don't mind a turbo, but on a 4 pot !!!

Well EVO mag love the GTS, they just end reviewed it in their iPad edition, gave it five stars and said the only thing they would do it remove X73 from it

koorby said: Well EVO mag love the GTS, they just end reviewed it in their iPad edition, gave it five stars and said the only thing they would do it remove X73 from it So they are better off saving £20k buying a year old 981s and have a mild ecu tune to get the extra 15 hp for £500 ! Because apart from the bodywork add ons what else does it gain? IMHO the only Gts worth having over a standard model is a 911 Gts Edited by itsybitsy on Saturday 18th October 11:34

the GTS has a centre radiator even for manual cars.. something even the Cayman R did not. I'm also not sure the Cayman S has it so not quite the same. for track, i agree that LCAs would be needed in front and if possible rear LCAs and toe links.

koorby said: Well EVO mag love the GTS, they just end reviewed it in their iPad edition, gave it five stars and said the only thing they would do it remove X73 from it which is reverse to the press cars and the other reviews all saying x73 made the car. As is the norm, what one wants is not what every one wants.

HokumPokum said: the GTS has a centre radiator even for manual cars.. something even the Cayman R did not. I'm also not sure the Cayman S has it so not quite the same. . If this is true even the centre rad can I believe be retro fitted

sure it can be. But not quite the same thing as coming from the factory.

Will this topic disappear up its own fundament if I post this? "FOUR-CYLINDER CAYMAN AT THE NURBURGRING" With video. http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... Not known of course if this is a GT4 or not....

Hellers said: Will this topic disappear up its own fundament if I post this? "FOUR-CYLINDER CAYMAN AT THE NURBURGRING" With video. http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... Not known of course if this is a GT4 or not.... I saw that and the first thing I thought was that there was no way a GT4 (due next year) will go back to an NA engine if the rest of the range is turbo... but when are the new turbos due to be released? I'm out if the GT4 is turbo, I've decided...

anonymous said: [redacted] not.

Hellers said: Will this topic disappear up its own fundament if I post this? "FOUR-CYLINDER CAYMAN AT THE NURBURGRING" With video. http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... Not known of course if this is a GT4 or not.... just a test car There are vids of 3.6lNA cars also. Flat 6 manual in that 1st Boxster, then the turbo cars testing after. http://youtu.be/YXAibs8hNEM they need to test the new turbo engines, but the GT4 is out sooner than later and the face lift 987.2 cars are a way off yet Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 22 October 17:17

anonymous said: [redacted] who said they do ? There are 3.6L cars tested, I am sure Porsche test loads of cars esp as the 987.2 dfi car was a 3.6L in the base model they drop engines in all sorts of bodies to hide what they are testing. and then I quoted "Flat 6 manual in that 1st Boxster, then the turbo cars testing after. http://youtu.be/YXAibs8hNEM No mention of engine capacity about the vid.

anonymous said: [redacted] I listened to it. I cant unhear the sounds.

The FI engine sounds like it has tons of low down grunt/torque.

ORD said: I listened to it. I cant unhear the sounds. That has ruined my evening. Utterly horrible.

You mentioned my favourite movie. Thats the second one, Supremacy.

anonymous said: [redacted] Crap rant. All true; not enough swearing; too heartfelt. 4/10 My turn: f king 4-pot f ks make me so f king angry that I'm going to f k a duck with a cock-rocket and s t in a turbocharger. The saddest part is that it'll also signal Porsche giving up on doing anything just because it is better, rather than doing whatever they can get away with. A turbo 4-pot in a Porscbe is just so immeasurably naff. If the engine doesn't define a sports car, what does? The suspension has never been that special; these cars aren't very light; the engine placement is 'exotic' but surely can't carry an otherwise mundane package?

anonymous said: [redacted] I love the third too even though it is utterly frantic! Its all down to the director, Paul Greengrass. The 4th false one is of course utter tripe. Oh, and the music, its haunting, utterly fabulous. Composed by John Powell. I listen to them far too much and I am a rocker!

anonymous said: [redacted] Totally agree - Engine noise is much more important to me than a lot of other stuff in cars. Luckily for us Cmoose, Mercedes and Jaguar understand this even if Porsche and BMW don't. Having said that I do like the noise in the new 991, even if it is a little showy. What I find somewhat depressing is that Porsche think that it's OK to lose that wonderful NA flat six howl. The CR sounds truly magnificent at 7200RPM and is one of the main reasons I bought it to replace the GTS - the GTS was a great car and did sound nice but it was simply too quiet.