Making a 912 out of 996

So here is likely a stupid question but let me first explain my motivation. I have a teenage son who is starting to drive but I want him to learn to drive a manual and then track with me. However, I also want a detuned 911 to protect him with a roof (so boxster is not an option). So what I have started to think about is maybe buying a 996 with blown engine and installing a boxster engine in its place. Is this doable and if so what would I need to do? Or more importantly...is this just plain stupid? Thoughts?

You looking to adopt? I'm very well behaved...

Why not get a Cayman?

^^ yes. Cayman with a 2.7 is not fast, handles well. That type of power isn't crazy for a young one. Plus, you'd get to drive a Cayman if you get the itch.

1) It's already been done putting a Box S engine in a 996 chassis. Needs some intake adjusting but it will work. 2) All Box engines are flat 6, and the 912 was a flat 4, so not an equivalence. 3) No matter what you do, any kid can get into trouble with a 40HP car. 4) If you are going to do the swap, your engine will be worth ~$8k. Of course, if you find a roller with a junk engine, it'll be worth f***all. Make sure you find a roller where there has been no intermix. If it's intermixed, all the coolant hoses have to be repl. Yuch. 5) While you are doing this, do the IMS on the Box engine, make it decently bulletproof(if there is such a word with the M96). Appendix: My son learned to drive on a 90 928GT as it was a stick. We had to repl the clutch when he was done learning. Plan for it.

You guys all have me laughing....so here is my response to all of you. 1) No adoption....my kids are already more than I can handle 2) Caymans are pretty much around 996 prices and would always prefer a 911 in that case 3) Good to know that it has been done 4) Yep I have a 912 so I know the cylinder counts :-) ...I was looking at it more as creating an underpowered 911 which the 912 is. 5) I assume your are talking about oil/coolant intermixing. 6) Totally agree on IMS So to give you more of my thinking, I think I can find a car with a blown engine for about 6K and a boxster engine for about 2K...then 2K to install and I have a detuned 996 for 10K...Is that an unreasonable expectation?

Could be cheaper than a base Cayman, resale will be a PITA. But who cares with that low cost of entry?

Are you sure on that none-adoption policy? I will walk the dog daily AND do the occasional dishes... Volkert

I think when all is said and done, you will exceed that 10K figure. Plus all the hassle. There's plenty of decent Caymans (Caymani?) out there for much less than an equivalent 996. Or, get a Boxster, get the hard top for it, and put in a cage. I think these are better options than what you are proposing. Or.... get him a Miata and cage it.

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I totally agree with that - I'm quite sure that's the most cost-sensible options, as it would be easy to put that stuff off of the Boxster and sell all 3 "part" separately for reasonable money.

Hmm...the cage in a boxster is a great suggestion...and also for what it is worth, I did miss out on a miata last week...Again a great suggestion.

And the Boxter's are well balanced in the corners. Or you could build a "Porscharu" if set on the 911.

Boxster with a cage or rollbar extension on the street is not a good idea. Buy the cayman with the 2.7. it makes more sense

Buy a 944s2 or a 944 Turbo. Inexpensive, quick enough and very well balanced. Momentum cars by today's standard and an excellent platform to learn.

I'd go with a Cayman or a 944.

Just get a 996 and disconnect two spark plug wires!

If you want the 911 detuned perhaps...... - have the ECU tuned to take some power out - lower the rev limiter - smaller low performance tires If you want the focus on driving I'd also go for the radio delete.

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I like these plans. Rather than making a hermaphrodite, just go with a 2.7 Box, put in a roll bar and the hardtop. If you find one with the IMSB already swapped, bonus.

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No offense, but this is just plain stupid. You'll sink a ton of money into such a project with no hope of ever recovering it. Why not buy a NA 944 for him? They are cheap and excellent cars as long as they are not suffering from delayed maintenance. You can find a suitable example for a fraction of the cost you are considering and get your money's worth the first track day.

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Why does it have to be a Porsche? Buy him a car that's a lot cheaper, more reliable, and easier to work on. And one where nobody cares if it gets banged up a little, because after all, teenagers abuse stuff. I'm thinking something like a BMW 3-series, Audi A4 or S4, VW GTI, etc. etc. I have 3 friends that all track 10-year-old GTIs and they are as fast as half the 911s out there anyway; it's about car control, reliability, and safety at this point. Any of the cars above can be purchased cheaply and enjoyed on day 1, without having to undergo some complicated process to try to achieve the correct power level. Spend the money on helmets, harnesses, brakes, and tires. They also serve as safe, practical everyday cars with back seats and trunks.

A 996 with a 986 engine is still plenty fast to kill yourself. Buy a stock vehicle (like a Mitsubishi Eclipse, which looks fast but accelerates like a Buick) and spend the extra money on a performance driving school. This will help make your kid realize that there are places where it's appropriate to go fast and (hopefully) make him realize that fast on the streets isn't a great idea. If he spins (or the class you choose has a skid pad), he will also get to understand that once you push the car too hard, you become a passenger, which is also adequate to kill yourself regardless of which engine is in the car. Advice you didn't ask for and probably don't want: If I'd had a car as fast as my Boxster when I was a teenager, I would very likely have killed myself. I was one of the most "responsible" kids around, but I still had several accidents, a couple of which could have been fatal if I'd been in a smaller or faster car. There's no substitute for age and experience; the reason kids get in trouble with cars is a combination of youthful exuberance, a lack of experience, and an inability to see potential consequences before acting. I still suck at these, but I'm better than I was at 16... James Dean's 550 only made about 110HP. True, the 550 didn't have a roof. Or airbags. Or even a 3-point belt. But you get the idea.

Buy him a 318gtb.

...but don't try to claim diminished value if it gets wrecked. (Sorry, M3 - just busting on you a little. )

When my son was approaching driving age he was eyeing my '68 MGB, that I'd had for 23 years. There was no way I was letting him have that as a new driver. Roll bar, hardtop, or not. I considered a used Miata (much better brakes and reliability) but decided on a beater Firebird, which he was happy with. BMW 3 series, Golf GTI, Audi A4, etc are all better choices. Plus, give him something to look forward to and not just give him the holy grail (albeit with a Boxster engine) as his first car.

If I'd had kids, car 1 would have been a Volvo. I wound up driving an 850 when I was young and stupid and it kept me alive a few times.

Your kid is a member of the Lucky Sperm Club to have a dad who is not only buying him a car, but getting him a cool car. However, I respectfully suggest that you find a way to make him pay for it if you want to add Responsibilty 101 to the curriculum. Just sayin' you are not doing him a favor by tossing keys at him so he expects the same treatment from everybody else as he grows up. I grew up in Ft Lauderdale and attended private school (not by choice - the hot chicks were in the public schools) amongst rich kids who had everything handed to them. They kept a few bodyshops and law firms busy. My cars were all paid for 100% by me (purchase, tires, insurance, gas, etc, etc etc) and I maintained them in cherry condition as a result. I also managed to not total them (I can think of 3 guys who trashed new cars within 1 week -and in one case, 1 day - of getting them.

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2nd that. My first car had 78 (yes, it's a 2-digit number) horsepower, front-wheel-drive, and a 4-speed manual. I still slid it around corners, raced my friends, and generally drove like an idiot. I consumed a set of tires in 7000 miles, having never touched a racetrack, autocross, or anything else that should actually use up tires that fast. Several years later when I got an E30 with 170 horsepower I thought it was unbelievably powerful. If I'd started out in a car with 200+ hp it's a virtual certainty I would have lost control of it. It's just a question of what, or who, I would have run into.

Why just buy a Subaru BRZ ( scion & Toyota also sell versions of it) ? Manual , boxer 4 , light , fun coupe http://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy...s-19-episode-3

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One of the kids I went to high school with got an RX-7 Turbo on his 16th birthday. A month or two later, he hit a rise in the road at 100+ MPH in the rain, went airborne, and "landed" with the driver door against a utility pole. His 16-year-old girlfriend was in the passenger seat; she watched him die. Some parents want do cool things for their kids, which is commendable. Assuming that just because a kid is responsible for his age means he's able to reason like an adult and will not wind up in trouble or injured is not.

You know your kid best and if he's suited for this. If he was anything like me, I'd suggest you treat the first car as a throwaway. Good luck. Either way I think you got some lucky kids. BTW, depending on where you live, you want want to consider if you're going to be able to pass emissions with a swap (e.g. CA). EDIT: I think there are things out there that track location and driving behaviors.

I'm sorry but the ideas of buying a beater 30+ year old car is not a good idea, not as safe as newer cars, not as reliable etc. As much as I loved my 83' 944 and 87' 951, I wouldn't be typing if something went bad driving those. Maybe a 88' or newer 944 (air bags) but still riskier than a newer still fun car s4, c32/55, m3, 996, boxster, etc I'd rather get hit in any of those than a 944, 928, MBG, etc. But even the safest cars still can't ensure you won't die, brake bones, etc. It's part of the risk. De-tuning the ECU on a 996 is probably the best option if you really want him in a 996. (something with PSM though), have you thought about v60 r or v70 r, both cheap to maintain, insure, very safe, somewhat fun...hell the v70r is just cool (imo, fast wagon, at the time). I got a s4 cabriolet for my gf recently, it was cheap, safe, great in snow, and the top down actually is a lot of fun.

3-series BMW, Miata, or maybe even a Nissan/Infinity coupe.... If you go beemer, get one pre-2006. They look better than the new ones IMHO and are great driving cars. And make him somehow equitable in the situation. If he doesn't kill that car in a year and proves to be responsible enough to be that generous - then maybe sell it off and look at upgrading to a trackable Porsche.

Buy a Boxster with a hardtop? Seems like more work to try and stuff a smaller engine into a 996....

You can adjust the throttle cable to not give as much power on a 99, or put a restrictor in the intake of any model... Though I'll echo the rest, old cars are not that safe and even a "lowly" 944 turbo (near supercar performance for it's day), is only slow compared to modern performance cars. A 996 (even with 260hp or whatever) is more than enough to get a kid in trouble. Teenagers have not fully developed the ability to project the likely outcomes of their actions into the future. A teenagers brain largely mirrors that of a severely handicapped person in this way. Good luck!

I've posted this before. Here's what my oldest daughter did to the Hyundai Elantra I bought her, and she is a very safe and sane driver. A car went out of control on the freeway in front of her, causing her to swerve and hit the median K-rail, flipping the car and causing it to roll several times. So, I really don't think that de-tuning a 996 is the way to go.

Diagnosis......Affluenza...... Cure.....2008 Honda Civic.....

The FIRST day of having a drivers license for my daughter. Yes, that's a Volvo. The house had more damage than the xc90.

The indie I used to take the Volvo to when something obscure would break had an awesome poster: a monster truck and a line of cars that were completely crushed - except the Volvo, with the logo "Can you spot the Volvo?" Great marketing...

A few guys are putting Subaru motors in air cooled 911s, it would be cool to see it done with a 996.

Thanks guys...I read everyone of your suggestions... And its all good perspective and advice, it has made me think which is why I even threw it out there. Sometimes we get caught up in our own dreams to have our kids by our sides in our work or hobbies. So based on this thinking, I will just keep him in the car he inherited which is a 2000 e320 Wagon...safe like a Volvo and built like a tank. In the meantime, teach him how to drive a manual with one of my cars and let him continue his track experience gocarting.... Cuda911, I hope your daughter was OK.

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Thanks. She got a sore neck and a small cut on her elbow from the glass. The car kept her safe, which is why I bought her another Elantra to replace that one.

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Just count the seconds until such a restrictor is removed Teenagers have a sh**load of time at their hands and are usually very creative! (Not to the Elantra, but I can understand why you bought a second one!)

I'd go with a E46 BMW all day. Safe, rear wheel drive, still great looking in my opinion, low cost, and easy to work on.

Give the kid a goal to aim for. No tickets or accident for two years and then pick your car...Make him earn it!

Regardless of the engine, this is the wrong first car to have. Even with the 2.5L Boxter engine, the car will be fairly fast, everyone will want to race with him, etc.

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Two years is an eternity at that age and I'm not sure that goal is realistic at all. Let him drive and if he get's a ticket it will teach him to slow down. Regardless, your first car should be the biggest POS you've ever owned so get him a $hibox, make sure it's safe to drive and that's it.

^^ Yup. Ideally one that will keep the driver alive and keep whatever they hit alive (i.e. don't give a 16-year-old an H2). An import pickup (a Mazda) was perfect as my sacrificial vehicle. It was cheap, so I didn't go broke once it was wrecked; it had a narrow bench seat, so I wasn't likely to have a bunch of friends in the car, it was big enough to take hits and light enough that I never plowed into anyone or went through any walls. And I was the "responsible" kid in my neighborhood.

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Absolutely. The peer pressure to do something irresponsible is going to be immense. How many times can you hear your friends say "COME ON, FLOOR IT!" before you do? Not to mention the weird social interactions that will result from owning such a car in high school. I mean maybe this is a school where every other kid drives a Ferrari, so a 996 will be a humble, lowly POS everyman's car. But if I'd driven a 15-year-old Porsche to my high school, it might has well have been a Veyron, and the treatment from classmates would have been merciless. I can virtually gaurantee it would have been vandalized at some point. I remember people pulling back from one kid because they had a used Audi A4. Not a particularly special car, but even that was kinda like "oh, excuse me, Your Highness, we'll just be over here with our ****ty hand-me-downs ".

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Another thought: your goal here doesn't require that your son's car be track-worthy. If you want him to be able to experience a fast car on-track, just share whatever car you're driving. You'll likely be in different run groups anyway so sharing is no problem, and then you only have to take one car to the track and maintain one car in track-ready condition. Could be a nice reward for driving a more practical car responsibly every day; getting to drive Dad's track beast on the weekends.