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YOUR RESEARCH40 jahre vs 997.2 base
Leading reported evidence
Check bores and service records
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Read evidence and context
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Suggestion
Regardless of which one you get, check the bores and service records.
Leading evidence: 'Check bores and service records' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check bores and service records' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion · Original poster
First, the car is stunningly beautiful in person, this particular car is sooo clean, its about as mint as you could hope for and it drove like new..no rattles or squeaks and it pulled hard.
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Suggestion
Third, suspension mods (if any) will change the way they feel.
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Suggestion · Original poster
First, the car is stunningly beautiful in person, this particular car is sooo clean, its about as mint as you could hope for and it drove like new..no rattles or squeaks and it pulled hard.
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Looking very closely at these two cars. The 40 ae is super low mileage and is basically mint condition. The 997 also looks to be in excellent condition at 37k miles. It�s a manual but doesn�t have any �goodies� like pasm, chrono or pse. I love the 40ae and my heart says yes but my brain wants the 997. Opinions?
My brain would also say the 997.2, not knowing the price difference and other details about the cars. No IMS bearing and lower bore scoring risk in the 997.2. I personally like the styling of the 997 better than the 996.
Have you had a chance to drive both cars... that should be the final decider... which do you like driving better?
You have bore scoring risk in the 997.2. Same with the 991 and 992. But you do have a better IMSB in the 997.2. But that's an easy fix on the 996 with the Solution or Retro.
Life is too short. Go with what you want. Assuming both are proven to be in fine shape, my choice would be the 40AE. But I like the classic lines, look and handling of the 996 better than the 997. Certainly an added bonus that the 40AE is a limited series.
But preferences are personal not universal.
40 ae is just so classy unique.. it gives me James Bond vibes. Both cars have the same power output but the 996 is like 200lbs lighter. 997 is $6k more. Not so long ago this wouldn't have been a question, the 997 would have been so much more desirable but after driving one and ogling them day and night for the last few months, I have grown to fall in love with the 996 and none more so than the AE. The 997.2 manual was my holy grail car for so long but I never had the chance to snag one until now. It's like when the girl you were in love with in highschool that was out of your league all of a sudden pays attention to you and at the same time you've just found out the nerdy girl is actually really hot and now you want HER!
You may never get out of the drivers seat in the 996 40AE after taking her thru the paces. Incredible car to drive on the street and track. Not to mention, it's aging extremely well with its very classic lines.
Regardless of which one you get, check the bores and service records. Oil changes are key to mitigating bore scoring.
This 40 Jahre isn't from New York is it? There was one I was looking at up there and it looked great but I got to see the history and was shocked. Cant remember what number it was though.
I had a similar dilema 21 years ago when I bought my 40 AE from new and the 997 had just come out. I still own my 40 AE and still love every second behind the wheel of it. Zero regrets!
Another 40AE #1111 owner here and just rolled past 120k miles in mine this weekend. I've driven both cars so can provide some feedback. I think a lot of it might come down to how you want to use the car. Purely from the driving experience, which is what I was after, the 40AE provides a more spirited and raw driving experience. I know the 997.2 owners like to say that the 997.2 was the last "analogue" 911 but the truth is that every generation of 911, even the mid-cycle updates, got a little better through a series of small and big improvements. While that resulted in increased performance of the car, it also resulted in more refinement. To me a 997.2 was an amazing driving car but the refinement took away from the lighter feeling, tossable, peppier 40AE. I like to describe the 40AE as the first GTS that's wrapped up in a limited edition package. My neighbor has been on a hunt for a 997 Turbo for a while but after driving my sorted 40AE, he ended up with one in his driveway a few months later. Yes the 997 Turbo was way faster but the driving experience was what sold him.
Well...I drove the 997.2 today. First, the car is stunningly beautiful in person, this particular car is sooo clean, its about as mint as you could hope for and it drove like new..no rattles or squeaks and it pulled hard. HOWEVER, the steering was super light and vague on center. So much lighter and less feelsome than the 996, it really turned me off as it just felt kind of dead. The other thing was that the clutch throw is so long and heavy, Im not sure I would enjoy this as a daily. I was shocked that I didn't love this car and I think I'm gonna walk..
My question is...is this normal for the 997? It really threw me for a loop, i was expecting the "last analogue" 911 to be better than this.
First, the tires will make a huge difference on steering feel. Even tire pressure matters. Alignment may be another big factor to consider. Third, suspension mods (if any) will change the way they feel. So, you are not comparing apples to apples.
If you are down to these two cars I would lean toward the 997, but the reality is you need to pick the car in the best condition, which means detailed PPIs. Both have their foibles and some of those can be catastrophic to your bank account. However, some of the issues of the 996 seem to be addressed in the 997.2. I recommend looking into the devils and angels of both the 996 and 997. Also, if you haven't already, join your local Porsche Club. Contact your local chapter and ask questions.
Make sure you have reserves in that account for repairs. This stuff gets expensive
996s are better built than 997s and more fun to drive, not sure why people ever buy 997s over 996s except for pure competition situations (or can bolt on those suspension components) "I like circle headlights"
As others have said, the tires/alignment/worn suspension/etc, will make a big difference in steering feel. I've driven many 997.2 and they do not have vague steering feel. Although it is a different (but good) feel than a 996.
Also, there is NO IMSB in a 997.2,, nope NONE.
And the old 996/997.1 cylinders loco-sil thin cylinders are gone. Replaces with an increase in cylinder wall strength/thickness and AluSil cylinders, that much better protect from cylinder bore scoring/D-chunk that the Lokasil cyl in all M96/M97.1 suffered badly from, along with
going way out of round by 100k(some much earlier) miles
that probably vastly increased the probability of bore score...
IMO, the 997.2 engine is a vast improvement over the m96.
And I mean HUGE improvement.
This is coming from an engine builder thats torn down/built scores of different engines over the decades. And seen failure analysis on street cars and race cars of many type engines. This experience leads me to knowing how the m96 engines 27 modes of failure can affect a un-knowing m96 buyer...
To me, there is no choice here, 997.2 all the time every day.... And yet, I own 2 996, that were more or less inherited.
jmho
According to the 996 Rennlist poll, it's between 8-9%. You can check the poll for the daily number. For sure, it's an easy fix by replacing it with a better one.
Keep in the back of your mind that the 997.1 3.6 is the M96 which does have a more robust IMSB, just like any replacement short block you would get from the factory today for the 3.6.
The 997.2 has a redesigned and more powerful engine that
@allcool
provides some info. But time has shown you still have to prevent bore scoring, solve for oil pressure and AOS issues.
At the end of the day, every car choice is a collection personal preference choices.
Thanks.
That is a significant number. I have an 01' with 32k miles that I've owned it for over 20 years. I like the car but obviously I don't drive it much. I also have a 718 droptop so basically the 996 is now my rainy weekend car & my autocross car. I am wondering if I should be worrying about the IMS or just keep enjoying it. Is there something specific causing the failures?
The bearings go and then the debris causes havoc with the inside of your engine.
Easy to prevent with a better bearing. I've had my 996.2 for 22 years and am on my second LN Retro which eventually times out and needs to be replaced. Other want a permanent solution and use the LN Solution.
Imho, it makes quite a bit sense to replace it. Same with your water pump and AOS. No reason to expose your engine to cracked heads from a water pump failure and all the issues associated with AOS failure.
These engines can last a very long time with the right part replacements and procedures.
You keep asserting that the .2 is just as big of a risk for scoring as the 996. It�s just not true. The .2 is definitely less likely to score than the 996.2 or the 997.1. This is clearly the consensus.
I cant argue with you about your statement. It is true, bore scoring has occured in the 997.2. Time will tell if the frequency of occurrance in the 997.2 will match that of the 996. We dont know yet. But to be clear, i never said it does.
Go with your heart. Hopefully you're not looking at either of these as an investment because you'll do much better with other asset classes. Both cars are of an age and scarcity that they should hold value reasonably over time.
I think the 996 has finally reached the age where it's getting the respect it deserves and although the 997 has its merits, I don't think it's such a big step up in performance or interior finish as the internet would have you believe.
I've got a 40 Jahre myself and I would not trade it for a 997.2 if someone offered. I actually think the 997 interior feels quite dated now with all the plastic buttons and non functional screen while the 996 is more neo vintage analogue feeling. The full leather in my 40 Jahre feels really premium, in contrast to the Internet's opinion that the 996 interior feels cheap.
In terms of driving characteristics, I have no experience with the 997, but with the age of these cars, driving feel will have more to do with the maintenance history than anything else (I.e. suspension and control arm wear and tear, engine mounts, trans and LSD wear/maintenance, tire choice). All of that can be fixed and is very individualized to the history of the individual car. The only caveats for the 996 are to get the IMSB done and scope for bore scoring in a PPI.
TL;DR: get the 40 Jahre.
Go drive both!
IMO the 996 will need a more malicious PPI. Tough game while not being local to the car.
AND, If you're debating between 2 chassis, you probably don't know what you really want yet.
I preferred the 996 due to the superior steering feel and feedback along with the lighter weight of the vehicle. Overall a more engaging and analogue experience. The engine sounds better to me and I also love the look and rarity of the 40 AE. I know many do not like the aesthetic of the 996 even in the 40th trim but I just love it, it reminds me of the old Aston bond car..
The price was somewhat of a factor as well but I would have gladly paid up for a better experience. I realize maintenance will likely take more time, effort and money but that�s a risk I�m willing to take.
Coming from a Miata the 996 is more akin to my preferences. I am keeping the Miata btw.
^^ oh hey. I still have my 1990 NA too. Great cars.
I would buy the 997.2 every single day. I love the 996 but for that money I'm not taking that risk with a M96.0. MA1 is superior.
I drove 996T, 996GT3 and 996AE
After driving the AE car I bought it over the other two
I didnt like the front wheel drive of the turbo and the GT3 was to track focus for me
Love the AE car
That is car Nr. 0580 and likely not the one he's looking at. I manage the Registry for the 911 40th cars and, as you see, that detailer did that work years ago.
Congrats! Nr. 0156 from Ryan Friedman I presume? That was a real museum piece. When you get a moment please shoot me an email at
[email removed]
so that I can introduce you to the 40 Jahre 911 Registry and get a few details to update the Registry records. Thanks.
Yes, #156 is mine and I get to pick her up on Tuesday! I�m so excited!! She spent a few days at Southshore performance and needed the usual, rms, ims, aos and clutch/flywheel along with coils and plugs.. It wasn�t cheap but I wanted it all done before I drove her home to DC. I was able to get Ryan Friedman to come down in price to help with the work done. They were very good to deal with and Bill at Southshore is a real gem as well. Bill did a scope and all cylinders are clean as new so I went for it. I�ll pm you asap
I should have added I do have more than one P car haha and of course one of the others is a 997. That said I do like the drive of my 996AE better but the look of the 997. Just me
wow, that�s great news! Of course I have big dreams of wrenching myself but we will see how that goes as I have zero experience with it. Looking forward to learning and I will definitely be in touch!
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