IMS Problem - Advice Needed

Google it lots of info also use search and you'll find stuff on this forum http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%2...20part%205.pdf And depending where you are plenty independants could help

Thanks for the reply - appreciated. I've googled it to death and looked at rebuilds at specialists (PCT isn't too far from me and seem to be reputable).... I've seen some instances on the net where just the IMS can be replaced (http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html amongst other sources), I'm trying to ascertain whether or not my car is genuinely in need of a rebuild, or whether or not it can be repaired. I'm not mechanically minded (I work in IT) and I'm trying to obtain some more unbiased opinion on what to do really before I take the car anywhere else. Thanks for the response anyway

James, Feel for you - to only have the car for 2 months and this happen is bad luck. I'd echo what Dougie said - hartech are the guys to speak to (call them up) they have a reputation for being willing to explain your options. They really know that they are talking about because they have engineered solutions to the problems - and from my (distant) observation they don't do a hard sell! But also might be worth you containing this guy: http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=648812&mpage=1&key=&#648812 he has clearly had to bite a similar bullet.

Welcome James. Shame about the circumstances. As Dougie says, Hartech. IMO they have more experience than any other independent, and offer some cost effective solutions for this type of repair. You have the very large advantage that the engine still runs, but don't let anyone start it again.

I agree with Richard. Don't let anyone start it again and get it flat bedded to hartech. Either way I think that is your best and cheapest option. Hopefully you have AA or RAC breakdown. Good luck mate!

Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it, and I'm sorry to ask for help on my first post ! Yeah it is unlucky, I don't seem to have much luck with cars, my last few cars have suffered engine problems, even after inspections before I bought them and have fleeced me of 1000's. I didn't run the car for more than a few seconds (I got it recovered to Porsche as I had no intention of running the car after it happened), I understand running it at all could damage it up even more, I'll give Hartech a call and have a chat with them tomorrow, hopefully they can offer me a few options and can maybe give me something for how sick I feel about this now I'll let everyone know how I get on.... thanks again James

Sorry to hear your tale of woe. As others have said: call Hartech! If you can't face the cost of a rebuild, Hartech have been known to buy cars such as yours to repair & then retail themselves. Worth asking if that makes more sense.

Hi all, I never like my first post on a forum to be asking for advice, but I could really do with some helpful advice from people in the know or who may have suffered the same problem. I own a 99 3.4 Carrera (996) which is my dream car that I spent a long time saving for. I've owned it for about 2 months and up until now it's been a very pleasant experience. Last Friday I heard a strange noise coming from the engine so I immediately switched it off and managed to roll home (fortunately it happened as I arrived in the road where I live). I sought some advice from someone who knows a bit about Porsches, we turned the engine on briefly (5-10 secs) and he said it sounded like an IMS issue. I thought the best thing would be to get it into a Porsche dealer for a proper diagnosis. It went into Porsche today and they said they ran the car for a very brief period and that it sounds like IMS failure. They said that the car hasn't dumped its oil or suffered any visible damage, but they've said the only real solution is a rebuild and to replace the IMS. Porsche have given me a ballpark figure of around £5k+ but said it would need a stripdown to see the extent of the damage. I'm really unsure as to what to do about this, the car only cost £13k, and sinking £5k+ into a car of this value is a really difficult decision to make. Has anyone else suffered a similar problem, by which I mean where the engine hasn't spat anything out but has had an IMS problem? Porsche have said the engine should have a rebuild... is this really the only solution to this problem? I'm just trying to work out what my options are and what's best to do about it, I've not really slept since finding out it could be an IMS problem. If anyone has any advice they can offer me I would greatly appreciate it... Thankyou for taking the time to read this Best Regards James

I should have mentioned before, but there was a chap on RennTech.org a couple of months ago with exactly the same problem as you. Only 9000 miles on the clock, the engine was running, but making the 'death rattle' noise. He fitted an LN bearing, flushed everything out that he could, and fired it up. It ran great for about 50 miles, and promptly seized solid. If if has got to the stage it has, anything other than a complete strip down is asking for trouble. If you leave it at the OPC, I'm fairly confident they will just want to put an exchange engine in it. Hartech have the facilities and expertise to fix it, and make it stronger than original, at a fraction of that cost. It won't be cheap, but it will give future peace of mind, and make it more attractive to buyers come selling time.

Hi Guys I recently posted my experience of IMS, I had mine changed by Autofarm when I had my clutch changed, it had not started to rattle but was making metal, foound when they changed the oil, so it was caught in time, just, Autofarm are worth speaking to about the rebuild, my expereince of them was excellent. If you are worrying about the IMS, do yourselves a favour and get the LN bearing fitted by AF, it takes the worry away from driving the car.

That is a potential option I guess, though it would pain me greatly, but then again so would dumping such a large amount of money into the car. I've given Hartech a call, at the moment their price to rectify the issue (without going any further with it in terms of bulletproofing other areas) is pretty much the same as the dealer have quoted (after speaking to the dealer again today) which really surprised me. I have to get the car up there too which will cost me a few hundred quid... I'm still at a loss as to what to do about it. My gut feeling and what people have said here makes me want to go to Hartech, but the fact that Porsche dealer has offered me virtually the same deal due to the fact the engine still ran, they say it's salvagable and I won't need a new unit. Arggghhh! What to do! I wish I knew more about cars! Thanks for the other posts too guys, I'm really grateful of everyones time. Thankyou

Get one of those rigid (but slightly sprung) tow bars-approx £30 at Machine Mart-persuade a friend with a suitable vehicle to tow you up to Hartech-they will only charge for what they find necessary whereas at present they have given you a rough estimate-extra cost just fuel & time.

Where are you James? I have a vehicle trailer you can borrow if you can get something to tow it? My gearbox on my racing car needs a rebuild so it's sitting idle at the moment. I'm in East Sussex RB

If the intermediate shaft is damaged, then an OPC would want to change it. IIRC, the original shaft is no longer available, and has to be replaced with a later version but this is not compatible with the original crankshaft, so it would need a new crank as well. And cam chains, etc. The intermediate shaft and crank would cost £3500 alone. You might want to confirm this with the OPC. Bear in mind that an OPC's labour rates are at least double that of Hartech. Book time for stripping and rebuilding an engine is about 20 hours, plus about 7 hours for removal/replacement. That's well over £3000 without any parts. I would be worried that the OPC could be well out of the ball park

Agreed! My bet is once they have you trapped and the engine is stripped the original estimate will change to a replacement engine.

Hi James, Sorry to hear that you are suffering the dreaded IMS issue. You may want to read this thread from a member on here who had the same issue and what he did. I think he got it fixed at Hartech in the end following advice from other members. [link=http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=591699&mpage=1&key=ims]IMS[/link]

@Arbee - Thank you so much for your offer, that's incredibly kind of you. Unfortunately I'm a bit too far away to take you up on your offer, I'm in Redditch. @Everyone else - Yeah I see where you're coming from, thanks for the info regarding the availability of the parts complicating things and contributing further to the price, that's something I'd hadn't even considered. I'm going to give all this some real thought over the weekend and decide what to do. With what the car is probably worth I need to give some real thought on whether or not it's worth it financially doing the repair at all. Thanks once again for everyone's time, you've given me a lot of good advice to base my decision on. All the best James

As Richard said OPC wont be interested in replacing IMS they will put a new engine and there is no IMS upgrade for those. So if something were to go wrong in the future???.

Zentrum Porsche at Notts would be worth a call. Mike is a top guy. Does all my work www.zentrum.co.uk.

Hi James, Really sorry to hear about your IMS issue. The IMS in my 996 C4 3.6 went last November. My OPC wanted to replace the engine at a cost of circa £14k. I ended up sending the car to Hartech who were great and extremely knowledgeable. They stripped the engine down and rebuilt it. The story is here: [link=http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=591699&mpage=1&key=ims]IMS failure[/link]. Good luck and let us know what happens. PS: I still have the C4 with it's rebuilt, IMS worry free, engine - and it's for sale if anyone is interested. The body, paintwork and wheels are perfect as you can see from these photos: [link=https://picasaweb.google.com/112365153629544628000/Porsche99621May2011?authuser=0&feat=directlink]996 C4 3.6[/link]

UPDATE Well as things have changed since my last post, I thought I'd give a bit of an update as to where I am at with the car. On the advice of a few people here, I got the car back from Porsche and got it taken to Autofarm for a proper diagnosis and to hopefully give me some more options. Autofarm said that it's not intermediate shaft failure, so I immediately thought... PHEW. Then they broke the news to me that the liner had cracked on Cylinder6 and coolant has got in. They have told me the only solution they can offer is a fully rebuilt and 'Silsleeved' engine which is going to cost me around £10,000. I nearly fell off my chair... I started to look into the option of a 2nd hand engine, I realised this route was going to cost me around £7500 too (£4500 for a used engine, £1000 fitting, £500 uprated IMS +VAT). All this after owning the car only a few months and never really getting the chance to fully enjoy it, I feel really sick. I'm starting to wonder if the previous owner knew about this, I'd like to think not and I don't like to think bad of people, but the thought is at the back of my mind. The bottom line is, I can't afford (or justify) dumping that kind of money into the car, it's such a huge percentage of the value that it seems like lunacy, I wish I knew enough to do the work myself . People have suggested to me that I do a cost effective repair on one cylinder and get rid of the car, but unfortuantely for me I have a good heart and I wouldn't want to push the car on to someone else only for them to experience what I have, which has been a gut-wrenching nightmare. So, this brings me on to my next question... what do you think the car is worth (approximately) with a broken engine? I assume someone with knowledge of how to rebuild these engines or fit a used engine would probably be able to do the job and bit of profit (or keep the car themselves). Rough specification : -It's a 2000 (I originally thought 1999) 996 Carrera 3.4 in Silver -Black leather interior (with Silver plastic backs) -Around 84k -Full service history -18" Porsche wheels I feel so sick about this, I just don't know what to do Any suggestions (or other routes to look into) would be greatly welcomed.

I feel for you James and really sorry you are in this position. Have you asked the main garages that perform this sort of work (eg Autofarm, Hartech etc) if they will buy the car off you ? I would imagine they will repair it and sell it on with a warranty.

Yes, they said the car was a nice spec and in very good condition, but the most they could offer is £3k. They advised me that if I was to sell the car with a broken engine, that I would be much better off selling it privately.

I would imagine it wouldn't be worth much more than that. I don't know the market these days but assuming it didn't have an engine problem, how much would it be worth, £15k ? If so, take off £10k and that would be roughly how much it is worth

Hi Spy, I'm not sure what it would be worth either in a fully working state, I guess the mileage probably goes against it with it being in the 80's. I'd imagine it would be worth at a guess around £14k, so you're probably right, that figure isn't too far off

They make about £4-£5 if your lucky, Again all because OPC go quoting £10-£12k for new engines Try Volks appart I seem to remember they where doing swap outs a while back.

I'll check them out, thanks

I wish you luck James.

Sorry to hear about this. If it is still a runner I understood you would be looking more at around 5-6k for a rebuilt and improved engine from Hartech. I'm not sure the price you paid for the car, but regardless of the mileage, if your car is a desirable spec (colour combo, extras such as aero kit etc), then a fully rebuilt and improved engine would see the car fetching a much healthier price (I would say around 15-16k), and likely it would sell over and above others. Rather than letting the car go for peanuts, it may well be worth rebuilding it and then selling on for a decent price if you really don't want to keep it. Because of the stigma associated with the 3.4 and 3.6 engines, potential owners would likely much prefer an engine that had already been worked on / rebuilt and improved, so you could charge a premium for this. Just my 2p, but whatever you do, I am sure it will all be sorted, and I wish you luck.

Thanks Steve, I'm in touch with Hartech now about rebuilding the engine. It's still a lot of money, but like you say, it would definitely help the sale of the car in the future. Thanks for the advice

No problem To be honest, bite the bullet and have it done, then you can either cut your losses or hopefully breakeven by selling once done, or once it's done why not just keep it? If you have always wanted one at least you know you will have a good one that will last for the rest of your ownership You could sell it when done, buy another down the line perhaps for more cash and you still wouldn't have the security of the rebuild you had with your current one. It's a shame it happened so soon, and I know it's difficult to swallow, but there will be options available once you've had it sorted. Cheers,

Sorry to hear of your problem. It would be interesting if you could keep us updated on which decision you make. Good luck Phil

While I admire you honesty and integrity over selling your car after fixing just one cracked cylinder (in case another one cracks later) - may I just point out that when we fit security rings into the top of each other cylinder - it not only stabilises the cylinder against future cracking but also offers the chance to get the oval cylinders round again and a better fit on the pistons - as is actually a perfectly acceptable long term repair. Baz

Baz, are you going to help this unfortunate young man? Also, pls open up in London !! Roy

Tell me about it, if only Baz was closer to me than a 3hr drive I would use them for everything....

+1 Hartech need a branch down South!!!!!

Nice idea, but surely the cost of opening a new place down South, with the increased wages of southerners would mean they'd have to charge more per repair. That would be more than the cost of transporting dead cars ooop-North. Plus, until we can clone Baz, he can't be at two places at once, so quality would never be as good.

They just need a trusted affiliate darn sarf who can do a borescope, whip out the engine if necessary, courier it to Baz's boys to fix, then refit it once rebuilt. And I reckon I can clone Baz in my shed. Mwahahahaaaa!

Promax can whip the engine out and send it up to Baz.

Andrew - whats the latest ?