I think I hate my clutch?

I've had my 987.1 Cayman S for a few weeks now. It's got 45,000 miles on it. I love the car, but I think I hate the clutch? It doesn't slip once it's in gear, but getting the car moving from a start is inconsistent and ruining my driving experience. I've tried disabling the clutch delay switch, installing sprint booster , and also just tried getting used to the car. Nope....not getting used to getting the car moving from a stop. Every other shift, downshift, and clutch function is perfect. I just can't stand the way the clutch doesn't seem to grab in first gear. I typically do one of the following from a stop: 1) not enough gas and stall (only happened a few times) 2) too much gas and i'm burning the clutch and the car isn't moving 3) I take off super slow like a snail and all the other cars are ahead of me until I get going I've owned four other Manual transmission cars: BRZ, 2007 335i, model 2002 BMW , 1986 Spider Graduate and they performed more consistently and predictably from a stop. I've read planet 9 threads about this same topic but haven't really read about solutions. Question is: will a new clutch and pressure plate make my clutch feel better when taking off from a stop? I don't want race-launches, I just want to get going at a reasonable and consistent pace. I've been reading good things about keeping the stock flywheel and installing the sachs sports clutch and pressure plate. Has anyone installed these parts (or other non-OEM parts) and seen improvement in how the clutch grabs 1st gear? Here are links to the Sachs "sports" parts I'm considering. Pressure Plate https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/1089/POR_1089_TCLUTC_pg3.htm#item12 Clutch https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/1089/POR_1089_TCLUTC_pg2.htm#item8 Thanks!

This does not sound like normal clutch performance. My 2016 Cayman has the best clutch/transmission combination of any car I have ever driven (including 1973 911 T , 1982 911 SC, 1986 930, 1965 Ferrari 275 GTB, & 1972 Ferrari Dino GT. Take this to a recommended independent service shop and have them evaluate. You may simply need a new clutch or perhaps only an adjustment.

I have a 2008 Cayman S with 80,000 miles. I have owned it less than a year as a weekend toy. I think it may still be the original clutch. It will slip a little from full throttle starts. It may be coming time for a new clutch for me. But, I have owned several other "regular" cars with manual transmissions and this one releases just the way you would expect. No extra feathering required. I think you need a new clutch. If you get a sport or race clutch, you may find that it doesn't drive as smooth and easy as it would with a stock setup. Good luck.

I have a "07 with 92K on original clutch and mine starts off fine, even squealing when I don't want it to. I would have your favorite shop take a quick look...…...

I have an 06 CS with 100 000 km (original) and I find the clutch very nice and easy peezy... I think its time you consider a new clutch...

07 Cayman S here with @65000 miles, and mine is exactly the same as the OP describes. It's been that way since purchase with 54K miles. Clutch engagement from a stop is highly inconsistent. Sometimes it slips for what seems like forever, and other times it slips for a moment, then BANG grabs and stalls the engine. Other times it engages what you might describe as normally, although it is never quite as positive as most cars I have driven. Even the engagement point is inconsistent. It's really quite irritating. Mine also has a really stiff clutch pedal. The only vehicle I have ever driven with a stiffer factory clutch was a 1985 Ford Ranger pickup without hydraulic assist, and most cars require well under half the force this one does, many less than one quarter. My left foot starts to hurt after about a half hour of driving if I'm not on the highway and I find myself putting my foot up high on the pedal to spread out the pressure, as if you just use your toes as I normally would, my feet start to cramp after a little while.

FlyingBear, Maybe on one of your touring rides, go to a secluded area with some runoff and stand on it, like John Force or better Brittney Force. Your clutch plate is caked with old burnt clutch material and needs to be scrubbed off. The dragsters leave a cloud of clutch plate material behind on their 1/8 milne, 330 mph runs. You can do the same as you are willing to pay for a new one, just tune up the old one. I had the same issue when I first got my 07 a few years ago. Then started autocrossing, and that feeling just went away, as we start each run stationary, rev the motor, let the clutch out and stand on it, shift into second a couple of seconds later. Cars behind the starting cars leave a space for thrown rocks from this activity. Really doesn't matter if its a 987.1 S or GT3RS, we all leave the same way, black rubber lines on the asphalt. What this does is remove any baked on material on the clutch face, allowing the clutch plate/disk/flywheel to engage more evenly. I have not had a problem with my clutch since I started autocrossing. Now, want to have no clutch as I am left foot braking to gain faster throttle response out of the corners as your right foot never leaves the throttle pad. Sometimes having both brake and throttle on at the same time when changing from trail braking to throttle on.

Thanks for the suggestions and comments. I had the clutch replaced with the Sach's Sports Clutch and pressure plate. The previous clutch still had a good amount of material left on it. The pedal pressure is lighter and the catch point is closer to the top of the pedal now. It's gonna take some getting used to, but it feels "grippier" from a start. I'm also really glad that I changed the clutch because I had the IMS bearing seal removed and there was no grease left inside the bearing. Being an M97, I'm gonna run the car without the bearing seal so it at least gets fresh oil splashed on it.

What ims bearing seal did you remove? And why? I hope you didn't remove the external seal, as shown in the photo. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Glad you got your clutch sorted. Subbed to this thread on the topic of IMS seal removal vs non-removal. ...with popcorn in hand.

This may be stupid question, but if the seal can be removed, why can't the bearing be repacked with grease and resealed?

Yeah the bearing could be repacked and sealed again. However I think running it with fresh oil is actually safer than trying to put a new seal on the bearing. I worried about two things with repacking. 1) damage to the bearing while trying to install a new seal and 2) the new grease would just wash out again. Check out this article. It's pretty detailed on the topic. http://www.brrperformance.com/blog/?p=1643

IMS should be fine if you add direct oil feed to it: IMS Bearing Direct Oil Feed (DOF)® | Lubricate & Cool your IMS Bearing – TuneRS Motorsports I would like to check in with you in a year to see how you like your clutch. I've considered the sport version of the sachs but never any testimonials vs stock.' The Cayman clutch life averages 60k. Some people more but that is pretty common. I too find the Cayman with its helper spring design vauge and easy to stall compared to other cars, but you get used to it after some time. Subscribed.

Croc'd: If the bearing is DRY, it's not going to last long. Engine oil is infinitely better than no oil. Yes, much has been written and recorded on this subject...and this idea of peeling away the seal is not the surest solution of them all...but it is better than running bearings dry. PCA has a video made with Jake Raby from Flat 6. It shows a spinning bearing in oil. They made a fixture with an actual bearing and other Porsche bits sitting in oil and surrounded it in plexi to illustrate. They set the oil level to the same level that a car would have if the oil was on the full mark. When they spin the shaft with an electric motor, the oil is chased out of the bearing and it runs ALMOST dry...but almost is a long way from completely dry. How much oil does a roller bearing really need? I don't know. It does illustrate the problem with just pulling off the seal. As the bearing spins, it pushes the oil away from the bearing surfaces. Would be better to have a cover with holes in it, I think...but you can't just drill holes in the cover...metal shavings in the bearing would likely not work well...uhhhh.... So...whether this works or not is not really clear. Is there some mitigating part in the actual engine that helps keep the oil in place? I don't know. Jake makes a lot of money on IMS bearings. It's not in his best interest to recommend a free fix. He sells his product(s) pretty hard. I haven't read anything from people who have peeled the seal away and driven their cars 50K miles. Would be interesting to know what happened. I have an '06 with 120K with original bearing and clutch. Everything still works. Is it a ticking time bomb? All engines are. I was hoping for 200K. :cheers:

Flying Bear: Just a note of support for your plight. My '06 has had a tricky clutch since I bought it in '09 with 16K miles. I think the fly-by-wire throttle is as much to blame as anything else. In Sport mode, the revs just take off if you're a little late with engagement. In Normal mode, the torque is so weak, it's easy to kill it. The clutch is too light to do the "rev, then engage as the engine coasts down" method I've used on every clutch I've had since forever. You have to have a bit of foot on the acelerator...at least enough to keep it steady. I think there may be merit to the idea of "cleaning" the clutch surface, heh-heh, but some of the hole-shot methods encouraged by Apex1 sound a little severe and might just cause more burned clutch surface instead of less. Also these cars will axel tramp violently if launched wrongly. You'll be installing new half-shafts. When I bought my car, the only new part on it that I could detect going over it, was a new half-shaft on the passenger's side. The Porsche sticker was still on it. I bought my '06 in '09 with 16K. I was the 3rd owner. It has just turned 120K and runs better than new. Original clutch and original IMS bearing . No leaks, no issues, lots o' mods. I've stopped track days for the most part. I never really flogged this one like I did my '95 M3 . I also had read all the blown engine stories and did some engine protection mods before running the car hard. I installed a deep sump, Oil-Safe kit, GT3 VOS and a power steering cooler, then bought some track wheels and R tires ....following in the footsteps of my E36 M3 . I had planned to really campaign it but I enjoyed driving the car on the street so much more than the E36, that I decided to keep it nice. I did 2 track events per year for 5 years or so, now it's been over a year since i've been out. If it's real hot, I just quit early. I change oil right after every track event.(10 quarts) It seems like too nice of a car for such hard use. I watch the max revs and treat it as if red-line were 6500 or so. I don't lug it around town. Keep revs above 2000 always and make a point to give it the spurs after it's warmed up. I've stalled the car plenty of times, especially when I first bought it. Hadn't stalled any clutched vehicle for 20 years before that. Yes, it requires attention Hold the engine at 1000 or so and smoothly engage, it will give a nice clean start. Problem is, it's almost impossible to "hold" at 1000 because of the fly by wire thing. So...you have to be a little quick about the engagement and not give the motor time to rev faster. One can do it with the tach, but it's much easier with the window open. I have a cat-back. It's not loud, but you can hear the revs better than stock. That helps a little. Interesting to hear about the Sachs sport clutch. I don't think mine is quite annoying enough for me to add one of those. I do find that my original clutch changes bite from time to time. Seems almost impossible some days and other times I just have zero trouble without even thinking about it. My clutch never slips when engaged. If that starts, it's time for replacement. That's the standard I've always used for clutches. If they hold in any gear under hard acceleration, they're good. I check this periodically...have roads nearby that allow a good test. I've put many miles on many manual transmissions. The only clutch replacement I ever needed was on an '00 Aprilia Mille R sport bike. It was weak from the factory and would slip in higher gears with hard acceleration. I bought a Barnett replacement and never had another issue. Still have that bike...still superb. :cheers:

Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds pretty similar to mine. It's funny b/c by the time my new clutch parts arrived, I was actually getting used to the stock clutch. After installing the Sport's clutch, I do like how it grabs faster, but then I had to get used to that all over again! Took me about a week to get used to it and now I love it. I think the biggest issue is just as you described, holding 1000 RPM while the drive by wire throttle changes on you. I installed a sprint- booster some time ago, but haven't found it helps much with getting out of 1st gear. The best thing I found is to just modulate the throttle pedal as the RPM changes. It's more footwork than other MT cars I've driven, but only in first gear. Overall, <3 my car.

you guys are right about the drive by wire. I bought one of those little boxes to make the pedal react faster, but all that did is wind up burning my clutch so sold it. I did notice the SOUL exhaust with extra low end torque really helped clutch engagement and hearing the engine revs, still couldn't live with exhaust on my daily so sold that too .

I get into heavy traffic in the afternoon's where I need to ankle/toe my throttle peddle to keep 5 mph, pop it out of gear and coast. This taught me how to attune my left side of my brain to keep the engine going without stalling and slowly picking up speed with just the slight feel on the throttle. Just a little correction on autocross startup, actually I do not recommend starting at 4000 rpm, just enough to spin the rear wheels enough to get the car going, that depends on the surface, temp, tire pressures, etc. So, I would imaging a black strip of maybe 5 feet, no more. What this looks like is 2000 rpm reduced to 1500 on clutch release as I push on the throttle, like a little dance to spin the wheels just a little to get maxium traction and forward motion. Either way, it cleans the face of the clutch plate and flywheel leaving a slight pile of black dust somewhere below the engine. I have experience wheel hop on some starts, which I try to minimize these starts as some members point out are hard on the half shafts.

How can you make an adjustment? Is it possible?

This is going to sound a bit daft, but I found the problem with mine, and it had nothing to do with the clutch itself. If you are having symptoms like the OP describes, try replacing your air/oil separator. Replacing mine fixed everything but the stiff clutch pedal, and added what feels like 30-40 lbs feet of torque across the rev range, especially at low RPM. I had very minimal clsssic symptoms of a bad AOS . Very slight oil consumption(occasionally had to add a quart between oil changes) and a very light smell of oil on the drivers side of the car after a spirited drive being really the only ones. No smoke from the exhaust or any of that. Best guess is the diaphragm had a slight tear which wasn't enough to cause further symptoms, but was enough to throw off fuel air metering. Whatever the cause, I HIGHLY recommend giving it a try if your car feels finicky getting off the line.

Can confirm. I just replaced my AOS, cleaned all the oil out of the intake, cleaned my MAF sensor and my 2006 CS did exactly what feeshta describes.