9ff vs GIAC ecu programs

Does anyone know whey there is such a difference between the 9ff and the GIAC ecu updates? The 9ff update is $3800 (chip + air filter). The GIAC update is $1100 ($1450 with the EVOMS filter). One claims a +20 hp bump and the other a +15 hp bump respectively. $2350 more seems quite a premium for the 9ff name. Am I missing something?

Your not missing anything, your paying for the name.

I dont get it. Why is it so expensive to change a few values in the ECU map?

If you factor out what the air filter companies claim in HP boost, the ECU flash seems like a raw deal.

I guess the question is, are you willing to pay $2K for that extra 5 hp?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that I have enough information about the 9ff chip to believe that I would get +20hp. I know with the giac, there are several different modes. One of those modes is geared to racing fuel. Now the numbers they quote +15hp are on the pump gas, performance mode. I don't know what would be needed with the 9ff chip to get that +20hp. Personally, I don't think 5 extra horsepower are worth the extra $2350 .... but people with Porsches aren't often budget conscience . I like 9ffs stage 2 packages the best, but they are pretty pricey too at 10k. Then at 20k, I sure think about that next step to an Orton 3.8 conversion . Hell, once I go there I could have just bought a GT3 which may not be midengine, but it would be a blast.

Has anyone got a straight answer about the change in emissions with either?

Both make the same amount of power I would assume when you filter out the marketing hype.

Santa Fe, My emissions didn't change with the GIAC tuning, at least not any appreciable amount. You'll get more of a change by removing a cat, etc. than by ECU tuning. Speaking of ECU tuning, GIAC is offering a special on ECU tuning at Croctoberfest!

Ken, thanks for clearing that up!

9ff does a LOT of testing. Their ECU programs reflect access to factory parameters that nobody else in the USA touches. Every program is custom made to each customers car. There is nothing ubiquitous about each program we sell. Some programs involve only advancing timing and adding some fuel. 9ff does a lot more than that - such that the car truly better than stock. 9ff isnt for everybody. Neither is porsche. 9ff's feeling is that its not enough to just make more power, they insist on making more power, but making it FEEL 'OEM' also. It takes more work to do this. Sure a corvette and a cayman cost the same... Edited by - ECB on 09/30/2006 1:14:39 PM

ECU flashes on an NA motor are a waste of time IMHO. The gains just aren't worth the expense. As supplement to other modifications (catback, headers etc) I guess they work ok... Just my 2 cents.

I would tend to agree with this. I've seen many claims for different chips (e.g., UNICHIP, MTH and others) but I wouldn't hold my breath to believe any of the numbers. Thats not to say that something might not be gained but how much is a HP worth and ... more importantly, would you ever feel it in everyday driving?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /> 9ff does a LOT of testing. Their ECU programs reflect access to factory parameters that nobody else in the USA touches. Every program is custom made to each customers car. There is nothing ubiquitous about each program we sell. Some programs involve only advancing timing and adding some fuel. 9ff does a lot more than that - such that the car truly better than stock. 9ff isnt for everybody. Neither is porsche. 9ff's feeling is that its not enough to just make more power, they insist on making more power, but making it FEEL 'OEM' also. It takes more work to do this. Sure a corvette and a cayman cost the same... Edited by - ECB on 09/30/2006 1:14:39 PM <hr id="quote" noshade="noshade" height="1" /> Without dyno tuning I dont see how this is possible. At least to extract the most out of a specific cars potential. Lets face it, on a NA car and with relatively low octane fuel in the US there are only a few things you can adjust to make more power. $3800 for a chip and filter? Those guys should be wearing masks and sporting guns because thats simply robbery. I think $1k + intake is stretching it for the gains made w/o a guarantee to boot. </blockquote> Edited by - kmaness on 10/02/2006 8:58:27 PM

NA tuning is anything but worthless. Sure - you dont have the potential for 'turbo' level gains, but the potential is there. 9ff has several methods to make the stage I +20HP a reality. Of course, if you are the sort of person who wants to believe that a $500 K&N filter can add 23HP...then be my guest - do that. Real power costs money. 9ff makes real power. This industry is crowded with a lot of 'guys in ski masks' who prey on the bottem end. Guys who cant/are unwilling to shell out what it costs for the real deal. Instead they advertise BS products that dont work. Of course, the people who buy this didnt spend too much money, so they dont really care/notice that something doesnt work - unless they affirm their asssertion that modding Porsche's 'doesnt work' - so of course they proudly return their car to stock. There are a couple of things that 9ff does to maximize air coming into the engine. However, the modification is pretty radical - so complex ECU routines must be used to compensate for this. I really cant say more - lest our competitors copy our technology. Your engine is basically an air pump - 9ff maximizes its efficiency. And yes, all manner of blinking lights can be managed with ECU tuning. They have complete command of the ECU. The Human mind has this amazing capacity to believe exactloy what it wants. There is no changing this. Those of you that are buying intakes of *lower* quality than what your car had stock, but simply liberating some noise and not real ponies are happy. To each their own. We cannot help you. However, those who recognize Porsche's achievement - and the cognizance that improving on excellence requires no compromises will continue to demand 9ff.

also comparing prices between anything domestic and European is difficult - as right now the EUR/USD pair is trading at 1.27. meaning that european products are roughly 30% more expensive to Americans!

I hope to have an answer to this soon. My 9ff kit will be the first one to be installed and, to make sure that everything fits and is optimized, 9ff is sending an enginneer from Germany to St. Louis to oversee the first installation. If the parts are not held up in customs, the install should take place on Wednesday October 11 and (hopefully) I should be able to drive over to the Croctoberfest and have it dynoed at Imagine, so we will see what the 9ff Kit-2 is good for. The big uncertainty is getting the parts. Emeka, if I drop my car by Reid Vann on Monday, October 9th, have them pull the ECU, can I get it back by Wednesday for the install? Also let me know when the parts should make it to customs in St. Louis, I may be able to get it through faster if I go there in person.

I have the 9ff kit due soon as well. Really anxious to hear from you about your first impressions. I really want the HP boost but not at the expense of a really noisy, hot rod sounding car. I will have the valance painted arctic silver to matchmy car and would like to know if you are pleased with the look on yours. Edited by - igor on 10/05/2006 6:13:02 PM

Waiting patiently on mine as well. I heard the end of the month, but no guarantee that's going to happen. These power kits went on sale to the public much too early in my oppinion, but not much we can do now but wait. Can't wait to hear how arcticsilver's car turns out. Hopefully the reward is worth the wait.

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" align="center" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" bgcolor="#e7e7ea"> USA 6 Posts </td> <td valign="top" bgcolor="#e7e7ea"> Sent-10/11/2006 06:26:50 AM <hr noshade="noshade" size="1" /> Igor, The engineer from 9ff is arriving today, and I will take my Cayman in to Reid Vann later today (right now its at Parktown Imports - my key is mis-behaving again (press the rear hatch on the key and sometimes it actually opens the rear hatch, sometimes the front trunk and sometimes nothing at all). This has been going on since I got it in late April and the third time in the shop for this problem - for a total of 3 weeks. Porsche replaced the computer and the bus driver, which seemed to fix it, but now the problem is back again! I hate to modify my Cayman with this problem still not resolved. It would negate any chance of Porsche exchanging my car, but I guess I will go ahead anyway. The dealer thinks that they will eventually find and fix the problem and its not a critiocal one. I will post the outcome. Charles </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Croctoberfest dyno runs on Friday at Imagine Auto I just got my 9ff install finished yesterday. Alex at Imagine Auto will dyno a stock Cayman, then add the EVO exhaust and the GIAC code to the ECU, if I'm not mistaken, and dyno it again. He will also dyno my 9ff kit-2. It is advertised at +40 HP but the firmware title on the new ECU code says +50 HP. Both may be overstated, but we will soon find out. Charles

Having a flash should not effect your emissions because the values for the O2 sensors are not changed. Neil

Neil, I concur, when I was on the dyno last week for the AWE exhaust tuning the probe in my exhaust showed a consistent air/fuel mixture ratio and right where it should be.

artic when are you doing the dyno very interested in the results. do you have an exhuast or any other mods.

Charles, What's the latest on your dyno results? Also, how does the car feel after the power kit was installed? Craig