Purchasing C4S - A few questions!

Morning all, Great forum, seems really aproachable so please bear with me on the following questions! I've looked on the forum all yesterday but can't quite get the answers I'm looking for. If anyone could help answer the following that would be great. I've had mainly japanese cars in the past, 350Z, S2000, etc. I've got a Z4 3.0 at the moment which completey lacks character I'm looking to change to a C4S given how fantastic prices are at the moment. I've looked into exhausts so the consensus seems to be the PSE version. 1. I realise that the C4S has a rear bias to the torque split, but how oversteery are they? I love oversteer and I would hate to buy a car that doggedly understeers. What is the balance like? (I would drive it without PSM on) 2. What options are there for a rear wing? I've seen some cars advertised with the aero kit on. Are there various versions of the aerokit for the C4S? 3. Was there ever an X50 power upgrade kit available for the C4S? 4. Was there ever an option for a LSD for the C4S? One of the things I hate about the Z4 I have at the moment is that it constantly spins the inside wheel on accelerating out of corners - is that a trait that affects the 911? Many thanks for your help Mike

Welcome! Sounds to me like you want a turbo. Both 4wd, same front end but turbo has more power, rear spoiler and sportier look. Turbos are cheap cars too at the moment.

Ditto what Jamie said, if it's really a NA engine you want though then the 4S is an awsome car. 1) My 4 never felt understeery and you always had the increased confidence when giving it some in adverse conditions. I would advise to never take the PSM off unless you're 110% on what you and the car are capable of. Do some big empty carpark tests with it on and off and see just how it can get you out of trouble. 2) There are loads of aero kits available, from Porsche original to companies like Techart. It really depends on your budget. Have a look in the tuning section on this site and check out what some of the companies offer. With the widebody car your immediate options are the turbo wing or GT2. 3)The X51 pack is for all NA engines, it includes increased flow headers and intake manifold amongst other things. It's pretty damn expensive as an add on option but desirable if you can find it on a car, my C4 had it :thumbs: 4)Again it was a factory option, the Anniversary model had it as standard but very few people spec'd from factory with this option. I've only ever seen 1 car with it. Apparently you can get an after market kit but it's ££££'s... Hope that helps...

Hi there and welcome. I have a C4S, bought it about 2 months ago. I have had Imprezas and a string of E46 M3's. The lack of a LSD concerned me originally but I need not of worried - this car just has so much rear grip you will not break traction unless you are driving in a fashion that you should really be locked up for. One test convinced me that this was the case, picked up off this forum in fact: Find sufficient space to do this safely and legally :cop: - stop the car, put it on full lock, dial in about 4K revs and dump the clutch. When you have recovered you will appreciate the point that the car has just made :lol: The C4S is an amazing car, you will not be dissapointed.

Some nefarious hosting :bandit:

The C4 normally sends 5% of the torque to the front wheels. However, if slip is detected (which, I guess , includes oversteer, sorry!), then it sends upto 40% torque to the fronts dependent on severity. As for the X51 power kit, this was/is a factory or dealer fit option on all NA 996. On the 3.6s it added 25BHP. It is a very expensive option at about 8-9k. The BHP uplift ignores some other driveability (especially midrange) and possibly longevity enhancements (particularly for track use) Modified intake system Revised cylinder heads Optimized intake and exhaust ducts Adapted exhaust manifolds Modified valves Larger lift camshaft Dual chamber oil extraction pump Modified oil pan (dry sump) Additional third oil rad Modified catalytic converter Mark 1.1 piston set (3.4 only) Modified fuel maps for DME (including raising limit by 200 rpm) The extra oil pumping, control and cooling may be enough to justify track use.

You can get 996 with LSD, but the requirement is far less because the engine is over the rear wheels, so you seldom hear 911 owners complaining about lack of traction unless they have serious horsepower, and never in a 4WD. LOJO

you'd be suprised - spirited driving easily shows up the lack of LSD... granted only on slower speed twisties. ie, Donington - never noticed it, Curborough it cost me a half a second or so. This is 964 C2 though - never driven a 4. As everyone says, the amount of rear grip is immense.

Many many thanks for all the replies - really helpful. The reason I'm questioning the LSD is that I actually like driving the car on the throttle, and I hate the inside spinning wheel you get in a car not fitted with an LSD. My comment was more about actually wanting the car to be able to be provoked into oversteer than reducing it. I really like 'pointy' cars - with minimal understeer on turn in, even if that results in an oversteery attitude on exit. I really don't like understeer. Having had an R34 GTR which adjust torque front to back that could be made to oversteer but with the added security and balance of the 4wd - I imagined that the C4S would have been similar. Has anyone ever seen a GT2 spoiler on a cabriolet C4s? I'm leaning towards a cabriolet but wondered what the GT2 spoiler looked like on the back of the cabriolet? Obviously the Turbo spoiler looks good, but I wonder if the GT2 spoiler upsets the cabriolets lines a little too much. Stuart your car looks great with the wing on. From the comments so far I'm actually leaning on a C2 rather than the C4S. I really don't want limpet like grip - I prefer a car with minimal electronics and a general oversteer tendency. I am sold on a Porsche 911 though so your comments are helping me reach a decision on which one! Thanks again Mike

Mike, with regard to GT2 style wings, on a cab the normal GT2 wing will not work IIRC as the wing sits too high for the cab mechanism. I've got the 'GT2M' wing from www.misha911.com . It sits lower than the OEM GT2 and the quality is good even though it's GRP, it needed very little prep work from the bodyshop before painting. It's not to everyone's taste especially on a narrow bodied car. Alot of the US C4S guys have it as can be seen from Misha's site. Have a look on www.6speedonline.com in the 996 forum and you'll see wing discussions occur alot ! :thumb:

Thanks Stuart. Hadn't noticed that your wing was slightly different to the porsche GT2 wing. Your actually looks better - prefer it without the flat back that the GT2 wing has. After much deliberating, and despite me loving the looks of the C4S I'm going to go for a C2 with aerokit and X51 power kit. Which will be a challenge to drive which is what I'm looking for. Infact an anniversary is probably the easier way of getting what I'm after - one question why have all the anniv cars I've looked at not had the chrome wheels? Were these replace on UK cars because of corosion problems? So the search begins! Thanks very much to everyone who posted! The info on the X51 powerkit was really useful too

I may be slightly biased (except my need for C4), but there are some advantages to C2 narrow body over C4S First a few points about the GT3 by way of illustration - the GT3 has always been a narrow body, however for the extra front section body stiffness over C2/Boxster the 996 GT3 uses the narrow body C4 body shell. The narrow body handling is either finer balanced or more volatile (depending on your view point) and is not overly grippy as the C4S is. The Turbo makes a case for the wider track (fortuitously the extra wide wings also allow for effective extra cooling/intake vents) due to its requirement to put its power down come what may. Indeed the size and shape of its torque delivery probably define the need for the extra track requirements on their own. The GT3/Cup Aerokit is track designed by Porsche for genuine front / rear down force from front splitter, laminar side air flow and rear down force (adjustable pitch wing). Interestingly, the kit is designed sympathetically to top speed, the smoothing of air flow as well as down force generation almost cancel each other out coefficient of drag wise (less than 0.01 Cd increase in forward drag) In comparison the 4.4 cm width increase to wide body and bluff facelift nose cone increases Cd from 0.30 to 0.32. This causes a drop in top speed of 3 mph and an increase in fuel consumption. The C2 to C4 adds 35 kg (mk 1). C4 to C4S (mk 1 to mk 2) adds another 55 kg. The C4S 3.6 is thus slower than the C2 3.4 (and uses more fuel) Also, don't forget the pre March 2001 mk 1 will not be subject to the large (deferred) CO2 based VED increases. On a purely personal note, I think the aerokitted mk 1 is the prettier model.

Don't think so Agreed the lardy C4S uses more fuel, but with the 320bhp of the 3.6l engine over the 300bhp of the 3.4l top speeds are identical and the C4S is actually faster by a 10th of a second to 60. But quite immaterial as you'll never notice that 10th - you might notice the variocam plus though in the facelift car, also the turbo tyres, wheels and brakes and the 10mm lowered ride height. Both damm fine cars, as are all 911 - agreed a narrow body with a GT3 kit is a pretty car though. For me I like the big hips (of a C4S!) - and that right across rear reflector.

Apologies if these figures are not correct, but AFAIK the 90kg extra and inertia of fat tyres contribute to 0-60 time 0.1 sec slower for C4S The 3 mph top speed drop is comparing 3.6 narrow body and 3.6 wide body (so indicative of Cd effect rather than engine or mk varients) The Cd gain of 0.02 is as measured by Porsche In any case, a 3.4 X51 puts out 320 BHP and is slimmer (both in width and weight) than C4S. I need to take mine to be RR'd really as in the last month I had a new K&N induction kit and SuperChip remap aswell which may have added 20-40 BHP on top of X51. Hopefully, bar outright grip, it should see off a C4S!

With 3.4 + X51 In a straight line perhaps, but the twisty bits are more real world and the C4S does have quite a good reputation there I believe it was 4 seconds a lap faster than the 3.6 carrera round the nurburgring