After-market seats = loosing air bags?

Hi, I love Recaro seats. I have the A-8s in my RUF and a Speed S as my office chair. However, I just reread the Cayman brochure and noticed that the thorax-protection air bags are in the 'seat back-rests'. What does that mean? is that part of the seats? Bottom-line: would I loose the thorax-airbags if I go with after-market seats? Thanks. CP

Yes, unless there is an aftermarket seat that incorporates an airbag compatible w/the factory system. I don't know of any.

Hmmm... That changes the equation. May be I need to try the sports seats and see if there is a big difference in them. My wife will never allow me to loose the airbags. CP

I'm not sure it's even legal in the US to 'lose airbags.' I know it isn't legal to take the front airbags out. There are provisions for doing so if you have some serious need to do so (like removing the passenger side airbag in a minivan because you had septuplets and needed the front passenger seat to put a carseat in), but even then you have to list your car in a database of cars with removed airbags. Otherwise, removing them is a violation of federal law. I don't recall if that was specific to front airbags, or *all* airbags. Also, when you buy a new Miata to turn into a Pro Spec Miata (they run the new cars this coming season), someone from the factory meets you at the dealership to seal your motor, gearbox, etc. I believe they also remove the airbag (or disconnect it safely for you) and when you buy the car for that purpose you either don't get a title or it gets registered special such that it can't be registered on the street (due to the airbag being removed and federal regs). --Donnie

this only refers to the side bolster air bag not the steering wheel mounted bag. I did this in my audi and I lost the airbag that comes out of the seat, for window protection, no big deal, 3 years ago no car had that.

Craig, thorax/head protection bags are far more important than the steering wheel/passenger dashboard bags for those wearing seat belts. In every test I've seen, the side bags significantly reduced the chances of a head/neck injury for a belted occupant in a side impact collision.

I guess I have to say that I just don't understand any rationale for dismantling part of an integrated well-engineered safety system for any reason in a car driven on the street, unless it involves preparing the car for use on the track only where you'll also be installing 5 or 6 point restraints, a roll cage, and other track-specific safety items. I'm sure all the airbags were engineered to work together, and not using part of that system would put you at much greater risk for injury. Driving on the street is a very dangerous endeavor in these days of no money for high school driver's education, people reading the paper, shaving, and putting on their makeup while zooming down the road. just my $.02 brad

Brad, I have a 993 RUF BTR and the PO replaced the Porsche seats with Recaro A-8 seats. Best seats I have ever driven in. I also love how the Speed S just cradles me snugly. Now the 993 is a much simpler car with just frontal air-bags. Thus the Recaro replacement did not compromise the integrity of the air-bag system, as no air bags were seat-mounted in the 993. With the newer cars and air-bags coming out from everywhere, it is suddenly an important consideration where as it never was an issue before. CP

CP , I agree, the 993 had a much simpler restraint system, which makes a seat swap like that much easier, and more safe, too. I've driven in Racaros and I think they're really great. But swapping seats in a newer car like the Cayman , I'd worry that the frontal airbags might have been changed a little somehow to work with the side and head bags, and unless you were privy to all the engineering factors and solutions that went into the system, it would be best to not do anyting that would in any way dismantle it, even partially. In fact, changing part of it might be even more dangerous, you never know, unless you have your own engineering facility and can crash test the car in advance... not something most of have available. brad

Please help ! I'm contemplating a set of Recaros to go with a harness bar and 5 point harness for frequent track use, but it's unclear if I would loose just the seat mounted thorax airbags and retain full usage of the front and side curtain airbags, or if all airbags get sacrificed ? It kind of sounds like, from this thread and others, that all airbags are lost, which is a big safety step backwards for regular street driving, if not outright illegal. Can anyone confirm if the front and side curtain airbags can still be utilized without sacrificing their performance if an aftermarket seat is installed ? Can Porsche (easily) program the ECU to eliminate the stock seat thorax airbags and keep everything else functioning properly ?

I copied this from an earlier discussion regarding seats and airbags. I believe you only lose the thorax air bag function As many of you know, when you install aftermarket seats (or even Porsche 's GT3 seats) you'll end up with an air bag error when you start the car. You will also get an AWS (Automatic Weight Sensor) fault (you don't seen any errors but the Passenger Seat Airbag Off light in the center console lights up). Turns out it is a trivial task for your Porsche dealer to set some ECU options to deal with all these faults. All you need to do is ask them to use their diagnostic computer to program the following options: Driver Thorax Airbag : No Passenger Thorax Airbag : No Driver Seatbelt Buckle: No Passenger Seatbelt Buckle: No AWS : No No more error codes

pong, if you want aftermarket, you lose thorax bag, no way around it. dont bother with sport seat, i have both sport seat and non sport seat. the difference is min., if at all. my is sitting around collecting dust.

I noticed a difference when I tried both out, but only for few minutes each. But I'm a skinny guy, and I need all the extra side bolster I can get. I'm trying to find a CS with the sports seats but there are so few on dealer lots.

A Recaro office chair....sweet!

Schematic of Cayman S airbags from Porsche 's website... View attachment 135 Copywrite 2006 Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG It appears only the Thorax airbag would be lost, not to discount its importance. My opinion re. the stock CS seats is that they're terrible. They measure 12" to 14" on the inside bolster. This measurement barely increases up the seat's inside dimension. I can't sit comfortably for more than 10 minutes since my shoulders blades hit the seat bolsters rather than my upper back resting on the seatback. The sport seats fit me better since they open up around the shoulder area. I've called several different Porsche dealerships looking for sport seats to swap or order. Unforetunately, they can't order sport seats, only parts for sport seats. 997, 987, or CS sport seats from dismantlers are difficult to find due to the airbag issue. I will look around some more, but if I can't find them I'm seriously considering selling my CS and buying one with adaptive sport seats, which (I believe) have adjustable side bolsters. Another option would be the Audi RS4 seats. I believe these are Recaro Style Topline seats with airbags. I don't know if the airbag system would work in the CS. They are great seats. i called a Recaro dealer and he told me Recaro doesn't sell seats with airbags. It would be great to find the manufacturer of the CS airbag Sport Seats and order a pair of them. Anyone know if Recaro makes the seat for Porsche, then they install the airbags? Mooty, are you saying you have a set of sport seats sitting around collecting dust? If they're black and in good shape, I'll buy them from you.

Recaro/Lear does indeed make the seats for Porsche . They also provide the seats for the RS4.

I have the adaptive sport seats, which i LOVE and find to be the most comfortable seat I've ever used. The side bolster DO adjust, both on the seat bottom and the seat back. The only drawback i can find is for the true racers they are considered to be too heavy. Since I race for fun and am just as thrilled with a 6th (at Arroyo Seco last weekend!) as a second (even I can't claim winning wouldn't be a kick!) I don't worry too much about the weight. I've got LOTS of other heavy parasites in my car (CD changer, rear wiper....) that the weight of the seat isn't an issue for me. Greg