Porsche 944 .. opinions please Guys? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Why a 944? Do you really want a Porsche or just a quick sports car?

My old man said they were great value for money .. I already have the griff .. just want another fast run about for the week.

Ever thought about a Lotus? Talk about value for money! Not wishing to sound like arfur Daley! but my Elite is for sale. Its as quick, if not quicker than a 944, will accomadate 4 people and their luggage (including Fishing gear) handles better and looks nicer than a 944, is rarer but still has a wealth of spares available. Has recently had a complete overhaul including reconditioned Engine/ gearbox/differential, is in vgc and can be yours for £2500.

944's are excellent cars, well built(unlike the elite) with very well balanced handling. Would recommend an S2 as this has a respectable amount of power, unlike all the others execpt the turbo. I ran a 944S2 for 4 years with no major mechanical dramas, I hated to see it go which is more than can be said for many of the cars i have owned. Now v.cheap of course.

It depends how much you want to spend really. For £2500 you could get a 944, but it may not be in the best condition and is likely to have quite high mileage. In terms of performance/handling and practicality, I think it would be similar to the Lotus. I'm guessing the Porsche might be more reliable (ok i'm biased) and the parts are probably more widely available. At these prices it really depends on which you think looks better - I know which I prefer

Cheers lads! I was thinking about the £3500 mark .. poss a small amount higher. Not thought about the lotus .. I am not to sure about their reliability in comparison >> Edited by cleg on Sunday 13th October 22:39

I was talking about the standard 2.5 944 Lux (163BHP, 0-60 7.4 secs, 137mph). For an S2 (211BHP, 0-60 6 secs, 150mph) you'll be looking to pay about £6000+ for a car in good condition and average mileage.

The 944 is really in 2 categories. The s2 is basically 10 years newer than the previous model ( I have driven both and currently run an S2). The oldercar is a bit cheaper to run, whereasthe S2 is more akin to the 968 which is a better car altogether. All sorts of crap is talked about porsches but basically they will all do everyday motoring and provide turnkey reliability. I am not sure this is the case with other perhaps more makes. When looking for a porsche you have to really look, there is loads of money to spend on ones that have been mistreated and some of the dealers leave their excrement on the steering wheel (clocking and forgeing history). If in doubt, don't buy it and whatever you buy, throw it at the main agent and expect to spend a grand putting right the mess the specialists have made. The 944 has loads of space (My mate his 2 kids and all their christmas shite plus my overnight, no problem.) The seats fold and it is a very practical car. If you do loads of miles then expect to lose a lot in residuals, but bear in mind the fun you will have, also will the lotus still handle when you have added 50k on the clock?

This Lotus will, its been rebuilt stem to stern. IMO a far better bet than a Porsche. For perfomance it seems neck and neck with the sandard 2.5 Lux as stated earlier, the 907 produces 160bhp @ 6200rmp and achives 0-60 in 7.8 secs, with a similar top speed. Its true that the Elite has its problems and reliability is known to be one of them, but all the German reliability in the world cannot make up for the 944 being an UGLY car, whereas the Elite is a design Classic, a masterpeice of aerodynamic achivement and in a head turning competition would run rings around this opposition! (Thatshouldhavestrirredthemup )

OK Ill buy it £50.00 and well worth it I am sure?

£50 just for the pleasure of offering to buy! Fantastic, now you do realise that I could only offer you about two thirds of the 944's actual value as a trade in don't you, so if you give me the price of the Lotus plus the £50 holding fee, and I give you the trade in value of the Porsche, that means you owe me £2525 Deal!

If you are willing to spend 5k then you could probably get an integrale. It won't be the best one but it will be much better than a Porsche or an Elite (sorry Porsche and Elite chaps) and performance/handling wise it will eat both of them alive, twice. Mine is a particularly nice integrale but I love all of them, they handle and go so well for the money it is untrue. And they are beautiful

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder - but I don't know how you can call the 944 ugly, the Lotus isn't much of a looker! Porsche 944 S2 - What a cool car Lotus Elite >> Edited by AJLintern on Sunday 13th October 23:53

Just don't leave it outside in therain or it'll disolve faster than Alka Seltzer!

But still go faster than pretty much any Lotus, does my baby look rusty? I think not. Look on my profile chaps, That is a real car

I do hope you all realise that I'm only having a bit of fun. I wouldn't wish to cause any offense to anyone. Both the 944 & the Lancia are splendid cars and are worthy of much praise, as is the Lotus too of course, good luck in finding what you want Clegg, I'm off to bed now, good night to you all. Simon.

You missed out the decimal point £ 25.25

Well, You were almost right, the Lancia is a splendid car

Hehe - Its good fun to have a bit of inter marque rivalry! Anyway, I still have a diecast model of an Elite somewhere - can't remember when I last saw a full sized one, so they must be pretty exclusive Hang on - I've just looked in an old box and found it! not in mint condition though. Now I come to think about it, there was also a trailer with a light aircraft on it. Gone all nostalgic now

ive got a corgi model of the lotus in yellow had it since i was a 5 my dad bought it for me for be good it sits on top of my speaker next to my 007 lotus >> Edited by dennisthemenace on Monday 14th October 00:19

Nice bit of banter going on here I had a quick look on the local yorkshire autotrader there are a few 3.0 and 2.7's with 100+k on the clock full FPSH for around the 3900 - 4000 mark for a D-E reg. I will have to get out and have a look at the interior space etc as soon as I get chance.

I owned a 924 for a year, a 944 2.5 for a year and a 944 2.7 for 3 years. Reliable beyond anything I've owned previously and since. Bomb proof mechanicals. Find youself a GOOD specialist - check out Porsche and 911 world magazine for that. The 2.7 is the best choice of the pre s2 cars imo. Cheap to run and just enough torque to get the back sliding nicely through long corners and roundabouts and balanced so well that you won't make a pigs ear of it!

I have run my 944S for nearly 3 years now. Can fit 2 people, 2 mountain bikes and camping stuff in it so I don't think you'll have problems with space. Goes reasonably quickly, comfy for long distances and does 30 mpg at 85 on the motorway. It also doesn't look like a cut n shut with an esprit and a volvo.

Cheers lads! sounds like they are quite spacious

My wife had a 944 F plate (and an auto), she bought it through Michael Ticehurst in Henley many years ago with 90K on the clock for 7K, ran it for two years, cost buttons to run, serviced independently, never broke down, traded it in for Griff500 in 1997 (with 110K on the clock) for £7.5K, can't say fairer than that. Even though it was an Auto it still went quite well and hadled beautifully, very forgiving. I really rated it. davidy

I run a 944S. Over 1000 miles short of when it was due to be replaced, the camblet went. Very expensive. But then, it would be on any car. Other then that, I love it. Its quick enough (190 bhp), reasonable on the petrol, good to drive, and when we went to Le Mans it took all our luggage plus other stuff. Its done 134,000 miles, and uses 1 litre of Oil every 3,000 miles. I would buy another...

[quote Its done 134,000 miles, and uses 1 litre of Oil every 3,000 miles. Did you have a full head overhaul done when the cambelt went? Mine has done 144k miles but uses a lot more oil than that.

A colleague if mine had a 944 turbo for some eight years. Went round Goodwood in it as a passenger while it was being driven by a retired racing driver - awesome machine, and space in the back too. I understand that the running costs weren't samll, though. Hang on - am I recommending a Porsche????

Here is my contribution. I have owned my 944 S2 for 18 months and I have racked up 30.000kms (check my profile). It hasn't needed anything serious yet else than a geometry check (!) - the front tyres were worn out on the inside. IMO if you're looking for an everyday car, you should go for the stock 2.5l; If not mechanically as refined as an S2 or Turbo they are more simple and certainly won't recquire as much attention - except for the timing belts, which IMO should be the prevailing detail to make sure of when buying a CLEAN car. I would not recommend a Turbo, since I have seen enough frightening stories about them: headgasket, electrics and many other things which are more likely to go wrong than on any NA 944. They are also a very different and a rather demanding drive compared to the NA 944. Both the early 220bhp model (1986->1988) and the 250bhp model (1989->1991, Turbo S 1988) suffer from very unpleasant turbo lag (around 2 secs! ), although the 220 has response lower in the rev-range around 3000 rpm and the 250 at around 4000 rpm. But when the Turbo is not breathing, they feel absolutely gutless. Good side though is that you can reach a decent 26-28 mpg if you are careful enough not to let the turbo work and drive below 3000-4000 rpm. And just for the pleasure of posting this superb picture once more: >> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 15th October 07:22

Nice pic thom who took it plod just before they pulled you over

If it had been the plod, it's not that finger that I would have raised (other fine pics of this meeting there: http://thomawakfree.free.fr/meeting/porsche/2002_03_17_croix/2002_croixmars.html ) >> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 15th October 07:15

nice one Thom I shall keep those points in mind.

I think the turbo lag can be reduced considerably by (so i've read) fitting a boost enhancer. This doesn't increase the boost so there is no performance advantage - it just comes in at lower revs. I'm no expert on this though but I think turbos can be improved quite a bit, and tuned to give lots more power Another thing you could do is to join the Titanic 944 register - I found it very useful when I was looking for my car. www.titanic.co.uk/944/

Lotus Elite >> Edited by AJLintern on Sunday 13th October 23:53 God damn that is one ugly sonbitch

Hehe - I notice from your profile, and I quote: On order: Morgan Aero 8 As I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder

As they say uup north "Theres nowt as queer as folk"

I have run a 944 turbo for exactly 5 years, bought it from Autofarm in Oct 1997. Early 220 bhp model (1987). Early 1998 it went to AmD for wastegate refurbish, and replaced/remapped Eproms. The Eproms were to get rid of turbo lag, increase BHP and torque. The result, 265 BHP 313 lb ft torque (rolling road/dyno proved). Since then, the car has been looked after by Bob Watson. I have done 32 track days in it, the last was at Spa 8th Oct 2002 (last week). I have a Boost Enhancer fitted. The BE tricks the wastegate into operating in advance of its normal state. The BE holds the boost pressure generated by the turbo, so instead of the turbo sheding boost when you change gear, the BE tricks the wastegate into operation, and is therefore faster through the gears. The BE works better on 220 models, the 250 has an inherent bigger lag (bigger turbo). More and more owners are now replacing the wastegate with a dual port version, remapping Eproms. This produces 300BHP, no lag, as the dual port wastegate is so much more efficient. The other item that is really needed is an accurate manual boost guage/adjuster. The car can take 1.0 bar boost without head gasket mods. The standard boost is 0.9 bar. Before Spa, my car had an extensive overhaul by Bob Watson. 12,000 mile service, cam belts (last set had done 21,000 miles). Porsche say 60,000 miles per set. But, the belts deteriorate with age, as well as miles. New belts need adjusting/checking after 100/200 miles, they have an initial stretch, then, all should be OK for the mileage. But most owners go for a max of 2 yrs on a set of belts. RE Comments made before, snapped belts are expensive, Porsche belts can be obtained from 8:00 GBP and 24:00 GBP. Take your choice. My car also had head off, skimmed, new exhaust valves, intercooler out and cleaned, new discs, Pagid Blues all round, stiffer anti roll bars (track use), etc. etc. After the work, it wouldn't reach max boost, the boost protection cut in. So, it went onto Bob's rolling Road/Dyno. The Boost Enhancer needed fine adjustment after the overhaul (engine was now more efficient). The engine is supposed to reach max power at 5800 revs. At 4800 revs, 0.9 bar boost my 220 engine now runs at 255 BHP 303 lb ft torque, all usable. Both Bob and I tried it on the road, both agreed that it pulled well into the red band in all gears, I won't mention speed. At Spa I did 250 miles on 1 day, (there were 2 days available, both open pit lane). The fuel consumption over the 250 miles was 13mpg. Much better than I used to get on track days. Crusing from Bruge to Spa, cruise control set at 80 MPH, returned a staggering 36 mpg. Space, I remove the spare wheel, and carry four track wheels, in addition to tools and 5 days clothes for two of us. Need additional convincing ?????

Cheers for all that info Pete. I take it all those mods came with a fairly hefty cost? P.S .. do any of you have pics of what the interiors look like? >> Edited by CleG on Tuesday 15th October 11:16

There are a couple of pics on here near the bottom of page. http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/swing/194/

If you take a look at the Titanic porsche website and look at the gallery pages, there are quite a few interior shots. www.titanic.co.uk/944/

Cheers again lads!

I`ve had 3 X 944`s now and recently my son brought his first one, I don`t think you can buy a better economic and reliable sports car. We brought 1989 944 coupe with the newer stlye oval dash for £4600 with full history in also concourse condition. If this is your first Porsche, try the 944 Lux, standard 8 valve technology and easy to maintain and use as an everyday motor. The later twin cam units can be more expensive to maintain, particularly when on a limited budget. Don`t be in a hurry, we looked at several cars all around London, but in the end found a local car from within Autotrader. There is a great club to support owners. Good luck with your hunting.

What's the problem with the twin cam engine? The only thing I'm aware of is the cam chain tensioner that needs to be checked for wear. I thought it would be more economical to buy a cheaper 2.5 lux, but I was persuaded that an S2 would be more reliable as its the most developed of the cars. Oh and its a bit quicker too

Had my 951 for 4 years, never broken anything yet, will gladly eat your Lotus for lunch on the track and on the catwalk. www.user.dccnet.com/lmason/turbotwist/turbotwist.html Thanks Lance 86 951 K27 compressor Bilstein/Eibach coil overs 968 M030 sway bars

Andy, Since 2.5 are mechanically more *rudimentary* than S2, there are many more things which are less likely to go out of tune... I particularly think about the electric area. What's more, there is still a bit of problem with the 16V head, like on the S. Many S heads cracked, and the fault *was* corrected when they introduced the S2, but I personnally know of some S2 with cracked heads. It seems that they need careful warm-ups. I may be a maniac with my car, but I do no less than 12 miles before letting the revs above 3000rpm, to get sure it is slowly warmed up with absolutely no thermal shocks...

My car never seems to get up to the first line on the temp gauge. The only exception to this is when I've been driving on a motorway for a bit and then slow down or stop in traffic. I assumed its because the cooling system was designed to cope with driving on an Autobahn at 140 all day

Did you have a full head overhaul done when the cambelt went? Mine has done 144k miles but uses a lot more oil than that. Yes...well sort of. When the head was off (8 valves damaged) I cleaned and polished the pistons and valves (about 1 hour each...8 hours in total. Mind numbing!) The camshafts were OK, but I replaced the chain, chain tensioner, cambelt, cambelt tensioner, head gasket and all the other gaskets. I did most of the work myself, apart from removing/fitting the valves. The bill was still too expensive...

Cleg, Buy the best S2 you can afford, go for a test drive and you'll be sold on one! very easy to maintain, make sure you get your cam belt changed as soon as you buy and the rest you can do yourself, oil change, brakes etc. etc. Good solid cars! if you go left hand drive you get more for your money, just make sure you get some history and if you get bad vibes from the guy your buying off, go have a look at another! And power slide yourself into winter!

I am looking at replacing my old day to day cavalier with something else. One of the options I am considering is a 944, can you shed any light on the reliability and general running costs of the cheeky little things? Are there any specifics to watch out for? I do from time to time take my PC away .. so 21" monitor needs to go in, plus the odd weekend away fishing, so space may be an issue?