Cayman S poor dyno results? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I've got a 2008 Cayman S, I recently fitted the ipd intake pipe, 82mm ipd plenum, gt3 throttle body, bmc air filter, removed intake blanking plate and remapped the car using winol. Still got the dyno and standard exhausts but it only pulled 302bhp and 261 ftlb The dyno used is a 'releastic' dyno and doesn't over emerald like some I've used in the past, am I to believe a exhaust will make a huge jump in power? I've seen people getting 340-350bhp with the same mods (with a exhaust though) My dyno My AFR Another chaps dyno (hope he doesn't mind me using it) Interestingly, my dyno follows the same curve and dips as his car did standard, albeit more pronounced on his car. opinions?

What did it do on the same dyno before you bolted this stuff on? I have done the same sort of thing on a 986 and got some real measured improvements.

I wasn't able to do it before unfortunately. Although obviously that would have been my preferred method. I'd hoped for around 320-330 bhp though tbh, I'd be surprised if the exhaust was that restrictive. I suppose it does have 4x cats though!

Doesn't matter if you've got a cracking set of lungs on you, if you're blowing through a clagged up straw you ain't going to be able to make good use of them! Everything needs to be balanced.

Very peculiar scale on the AFR chart as well.

Yeh I know it all needs to be balanced, and I will be getting an exhaust the removes 2x cats. I'm not new to tuning cars, but just thought I'd see what people thought about the exhaust causing such a high restriction. Why do you think the AFR isn't right? Granted its a little conservative but it's a nice smooth AFR (as you'd expect being a wideband lamda)

I didn't say the AFR wasn't right, but that the scaling on the graph is not very helpful. It's difficult to make out how smooth it actually is. But, that's neither here nor there as it starts in roughly the right place and finishes in roughly the right place.

edc said: I didn't say the AFR wasn't right, but that the scaling on the graph is not very helpful. It's difficult to make out how smooth it actually is. But, that's neither here nor there as it starts in roughly the right place and finishes in roughly the right place. Ahh yes, sorry, I misread you're post.

Again, different car but on my old 986S I did exhaust/manifolds then intake/throttle body then remap and at each stage saw dyno gains. A friend with the same car did the intake/throttle body first and saw no improvement. Both cars on the same dyno with before and after runs.

Ok great, thanks for the info. I'll do the exhaust and see what difference it makes. Looking at a remus exhaust up to now

All that extra air in , no where for it to go That's my graph you quoted and it was real, I had the Remus. You need to delete some cats :-) it will net you another 15bhp. On a gen one just fittin an exhaust back box alone nets you 10 real Bhp.

mrdemon said: All that extra air in , no where for it to go That's my graph you quoted and it was real, I had the Remus. You need to delete some cats :-) it will net you another 15bhp. On a gen one just fittin an exhaust back box alone nets you 10 real Bhp. I'd still be hoping for more than 315bhp with all those mods (plus the exhaust)

well, with out a base line you will never have any clue what you started with on the same dyno both mine were done on the same dyno with out the owner knowing why or what I had done 1 day after the other. exhaust is key on the gen 1 car as it the remap, Softronic is tried and tested with these mods 40x over. ANd with deleting the 2 rear cars the air is just got getting out. some one went to DMS and posted a Cayman tune they netted 5bhp !!!! lol pointless. I also did not go the ipd route and went with 996 GT3 parts, again tried and tested, so why did you buy other stuff ?

Unfortunately I was unable to do a base figure run :-( Obviously, that would have been my preferred way of doing it. I know a exhaust will help, and that's already next on the to do list. What I was asking is that with all my current mods, am I really likely to see a 40bhp with an exhaust at this point. I'm looking to get the remus exhaust up to now. I went the ipd route as I thought this was tried and tested too, are you saying the genuine porsche parts yield a better power gain? (Obviously my gt3 t/b is genuine porsche/Bosch) I got all the parts very cheap too which is also another reason. The remap was also very cheap through a German friend that does lots of sports + prestige cars, there where changes like it's fuel pressure is up 3%. Fuel flow limiter is up. Mixture is slightly leaner and timing is a bit more aggressive, the rev limiter is up from 7210 rpm to 7468 rpm. He also remapped my friends 325d bmw and that's got 255bhp (more than most other similar cars he's put it up against comparatively) so hopefully he knows what he is doing. The map cost me £245, a damned sight cheaper than softronics £755 too, plus he will tweek it for free if needs be. The AFR looks to be spot on though (as you'd expect from wideband) Obviously if I can't get the results with his mapping I'll buy the softronic, but considering no body seems to have dynoed the car with my current set up, we can't account for what the exhaust will produce/free up. Searching for the cheapest place for a remus now! I'm not chasing bhp figures btw, but that's just a pretty big difference from what is hoped! Edited by Stelongy on Thursday 12th June 08:08

Did you mention whether the car is pdk or manual? PDK doesn't always dyno well ime. Not necessarily less power at the wheels or crank, just the interaction?

OldBob said: Did you mention whether the car is pdk or manual? PDK doesn't always dyno well ime. Not necessarily less power at the wheels or crank, just the interaction? It's a manual car, thanks for the reply though :-)

I'm lucky enough to own a Superflow 902 Engine Dyno. The discrepancy shown between the SF and the other Rolling Roads is quite typical of what we see when comparing numbers. The worst case we saw was 181 flywheel horsepower on a well known brand of RR, which showed barely 150 on the engine dyno. The AFR chart looks fine to me, though it has been set on a wide scale to make the line a little flatter. Bear in mind that with SF kit, every parameter is logged at 100hz, so it really shows when something is out. I have every faith that the numbers shown for power in the post above are correct. We calibrate our kit before, during and after each engine has been on the brake. To date, the largest discrepancy has been 0.4 ft/lbs on 300 ft/lbs calibration weight! I guess the best way to judge the engine in question, is to drive it and see how it feels.

aahh, that dyno sheet brings back memories Edited by fioran0 on Friday 13th June 21:58

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fioran0 said: aahh, that dyno sheet brings back memories Edited by fioran0 on Friday 13th June 21:58 Yes and nothing wrong with it, There are people on here in gen 2 cars pushing 365bhp+

fioran0 said: aahh, that dyno sheet brings back memories Edited by fioran0 on Friday 13th June 21:58 Someone got taken for a ride there.

mrdemon said: Yes and nothing wrong with it, There are people on here in gen 2 cars pushing 365bhp+ Nice effort at diversion, though ultimately futile.... The only people who care about dyno numbers are people with dynos and people with numbers that are too small. Sadly its simply the memory of your bright appearance onto the forum and a moment that remains still your finest. A high water mark of D-baggery. Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 14th June 03:06

fioran0 said: Nice effort at diversion, though ultimately futile.... The only people who care about dyno numbers are people with dynos and people with numbers that are too small. Sadly its simply the memory of your bright appearance onto the forum and a moment that remains still your finest. A high water mark of D-baggery. Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 14th June 03:06 You live and think what ever makes you feel good, I back up every thing inc my own brake tests I did the other week. I had vbox results from my last car and now I have vbox brake test from 3 set up in my gen 2 cars, Sadly for you , you have been wrong every time, but as I have said, you live in that thought where you seem to think you are right and even with proof you will say black is white, so I cannot argue a point once the data has been posted. Have a nice weekend in la la land. :-)

Can we try to keep away from the arguing please lads, I didn't intend to start any arguements. I'm not really one to hang my hopes on dyno figures, and tbh usually I'm not really interested in the peak power figure they give. I'm more interested in how smooth the power/torque curve. 40bhp difference just seemed a huge difference, hence my original question. Forget the figure of 40bhp, let me try re-word it. Is a uprated exhaust likely to give a large increase in power on my current set up? Has anybody dynoed my set up with a oem exhaust then replaced it for a uprated one and seen the dyno difference?

The rear cats kill the power, end off, the gen 1 base map also has that Awefull dead spot. Even if you got no Bhp gain, removing the dead spot improves the driving experience by miles. Just doing the rear exhaust section alone gives great gains on the gen 1 cars and smooths the graph out. Must be 50 or 60 people with the mods I did all with back up dyno plots, it is all there in black and white. I set out to prove the USA claims to be bull s t, so did all the mods, went to a dyno where no one knew me or my car, went back modded up did another dyno , Alass I set out to disprove the USA claims and ended up confirming them :-) We now have gen 2 cars with the same mods and proper bespoke maps running 365bhp All possible, but on the gen 2 all 4 cats are in the manafold so.A lot more expensive to buy a manafold and full exhaust system. Fit the rear section ,enjoys the gains, and don,t post as people here will just not believe you .:-) I don't post anything I do to my cars here anymore, not worth it.

Stelongy said: Has anybody dynoed my set up with a oem exhaust then replaced it for a uprated one and seen the dyno difference? Ask Mr Demon what his before and after exhaust figures were? The only difference between your car setup and the one in that second dyno is: Softronic vs Your own map OEM plastic plenum vs IPD plenum Exhaust. FWIW, I at one time had a 4 litre race spec M96 engine. It made almost 400hp. Running cat-less and with custom made silencers made little change to the peak power figures. Running a custom made intake box (with much larger filter area fitted straight onto the bigger TB) did change output by about 8hp from memory. I sadly didn't have time to investigate the source of this change. I would have measured pressure differential either side of the filters to understand if anything was changing from one to the other. Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 14th June 12:24

mrdemon said: You live and think what ever makes you feel good, I back up every thing inc my own brake tests I did the other week. I had vbox results from my last car and now I have vbox brake test from 3 set up in my gen 2 cars, Sadly for you , you have been wrong every time, but as I have said, you live in that thought where you seem to think you are right and even with proof you will say black is white, so I cannot argue a point once the data has been posted. Have a nice weekend in la la land. :-) Still not one drop of remorse huh Nigel. Not for all that happened then, not for the waves still crashing even now. Incredible. Its amazing how strong my fantasies can be at times. I even imagined getting emails in my inbox. Heres a play I am working on at the moment. I figured I should channel my imagination into something useful. Act1. The main players are introduced for the first time. 1: Hey, thats amazing what you have done with your car. How did you solve the cable throttle onto an e-gas car problem? 2. It was easy! 1.Really? its almost the largest problem going at the moment. What you have done is quite simply huge. Can you not share? 2. Im not telling you how I did it! 1.Ok. If its proprietary or you just don't know thats ok. If a shop did the work can you tell me who it was, I would like to ask them about it if you don't mind. 2. Look. F&^k Off Act2. An image is posted. Its a regular street throttle body. 1. Ah, its just a GT3 throttle body. Thats a shame but it makes sense. 2. No, its a Cup throttle body 1. Here is a picture of an actual Cup throttle body, from my Cup engine. See how different it is. It is cable operated and has no plenum. The Cups don't use a plenum. 2. I am ignoring you, but still telling everyone interested that they need Cup TBs. There are many interested since my dyno number is so big. (this part done as a sort of mime montage to music) 1. Here are details on the Cup throttle body. These things are expensive (£2000 +). Have a look on your price list for the mods incase you have been over charged. A street throttle body is around £200. If you need help or more info in getting money back if you have been overcharged let me know. Hopefully its just a miscommunication. 2. I know how much I have been charged and my invoices are always fine. Its all none of your business. F^&k Off. Act3. The travelling circus takes to the world in a non stop tour that will continue longer than mousetrap has played in London. 2. Roll up, roll up. Marvel at my amazing HP figures. Yours for only a Cup TB. Its the crucial part of the puzzle. Those motorsport boys know their stuff. 1. Hey, you shouldn't be telling people to buy a Cup TB when you know thats not what you have and also that it will not fit. Its expensive and cannot be returned when ordered. You are going to cost people lots of money! Just tell them what you are actually using. It doesn't diminish your efforts in any way. 2. F&^k Off. Act 4. This is act is played out by several silent players running around. I envisage it being structured like a piece of modern dance. Minimal Lighting. Just the sound of feet on floor. The players spend many many months, even years, running defence on this situation. Emailing people in any thread where the PT Barnum-esque Character 2 suggests that they should get a Cup throttle body in order to prevent them making an expensive mistake. A £2000+ mistake. The circus seems so plausible, after all its been tried, tested and results posted. Act 5. As everyone is leaving, they think its finally over.... 1. Its back, its back. The dyno is back!!!! Lights out. This play is a completely fictional. Any resemblance to characters, living or dead, or to events is purely coincidental. Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 14th June 12:26

Over on another planet, a somewhat confusing thread where the conclusion seems to be small peak HP gain but higher torque lower down with plenum and throttle body upgrade + headers. http://www.planet-9.com/981-cayman-boxster-modific... Pages 5 & 6 might be more relevant.

He is on some thing lol I was told it was a cup throttle body, I posed a pic and asked a question it was a standard 996gt3 throttle body. we got though that one years ago, does not change the Bhp figures. Or the many tried and tested results with the same combo. So bar that slight mistake thinking it was a cup TB when if fact is was just a 996gt3 TB what's your issue ? Every thing else still stands.

fioran0 said: The only difference between your car setup and the one in that second dyno is: Softronic vs Your own map OEM plastic plenum vs IPD plenum Exhaust. [/footnote] where is my oem plastic plemum . ? the gen 1 cars are def restricted with air flow which limits the bhp the gen 2 cars have a larger intake. nothing more to say on the matter. those are the facts based on 50+ dyno results . the word CUP has been removed if any one else finds my old sheet :-) great little car my gen 1 back in the day. Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 14th June 16:59

Similar route to mods but you get the idea Â

Did you ever get the exhaust fitted and see results as the thread turned into a slagging match just for anyone interested here are my results softronic ,gt3 throttle body , porsche genuine plenum upgrade all done as a package in one hit . Maybe an exhaust is a must with this set up or you can't get that much power with these mods , or the dyno is wrong Edited by powerhungry on Thursday 23 October 00:33

That's a valid point and I think one of the issues with these caymans is they are so good all round that once you get used to them they do feel a little flat and held back and I thought that these cheap simple mods would release a lot of power but was wrong to believe that as NA cars generally don't gain anything . Midrange is better and that's where these cars are really flat so it's fine . On the road great to drive just wanted more power as the thought of being left for dust by a modern hot hatch like a megane is a little embarrassing . The cayman makes me happy and that's the main thing just a 350 hp cayman would make me happier

powerhungry said: That's a valid point and I think one of the issues with these caymans is they are so good all round that once you get used to them they do feel a little flat and held back and I thought that these cheap simple mods would release a lot of power but was wrong to believe that as NA cars generally don't gain anything . Midrange is better and that's where these cars are really flat so it's fine . On the road great to drive just wanted more power as the thought of being left for dust by a modern hot hatch like a megane is a little embarrassing . The cayman makes me happy and that's the main thing just a 350 hp cayman would make me happier You were not wrong, you did not change out the most important thing !!! change the exhaust ffs, don't post dyno's of 1/2 the mods when the mods NEED the rear cats removed. If you want more power did you get your name down on the GT4 ? the rumor mill is ni on 375BHp on all the forums and leaks.

I will do the exhaust and see what happens I hope that makes a difference either way it's not the end of the world . I guess the answer I was looking for was that the exhaust could make a fair bit of difference . Not heard of the gt4 but sounds pretty exciting will have a look .