Newbie needs completed PPI interpretation advice

The gist: 987.2 3.4 Boxster 65K miles, 5 owners. PDK . I like the color. Good roof and interior. The dilemma: Clean CarFax BUT variable paint meter readings on PPI (hood at 16, front right panel 7, the rest all 4-5 MILS). PPI doesn't note other evidence of body work. No obvious damage on inspection but AC may "have leak." No notable body work on inspection under car. Didn't pull front bumper to look at radiators and unlikely to happen at this stage. Re-negotiate? Seller seems like if there was body work they are unaware. Paint meter pics: Hood: Front Right: Rest are all 4.5-6.0 My gut is leaky AC and paint meter measurements seem related. Thanks for any input gang!

I wonder if the paint meter is getting thrown off on the hood because it is aluminum. I know nothing on how those things work. Maybe there's a different prep or primer that causes it to read differently.

@teddydanielz - Key question. What is the seller asking? That makes all the difference.

If the paint meter readings get your attention next thing to do is spend a generous amount of time looking at all the front-end panel seams, they need to be uniform and straight. Really scrutinize the headlight area because unless a new fender is hung that's a place that is almost impossible to get perfect after a strike. Then take a high intensity light and look at the paint from multiple angles and be looking for tiny scratches from incomplete finish sanding, any overspray or irregularities in the fender wells, and different age and tone from one fender liner to the next . Look at the edges, sometimes after a repair a liner is deemed fine but still has evidence for you to see what's what.

Yeah...@foodbiker, you're right. I went into it assuming CarFax was complete but now it's not. You never know what else there is I won't know about. Still mulling decision. Thanks.

How is it's Karma? Is it telling you to buy it? Doesn't sound like it to me. What Kar-Karma (hey - I should trademark that.. TM 2024) is - is how does your subconscious feel about the car after looking at it, driving it, listening to the former owner, maybe having a PPI done (which I have to admit I only did once on a BMW M3 - and the PPI was great - the car was a dog and I should have listened to the Karma..)? Is it saying "buy me"?? After looking at the car, and taking it somewhere you're comfortable with to test drive it - (not around a parking lot..) - then shut it off, squat down in front of it, think calming thoughts and see what the car tells you. If it's incommunicado - run away. A car you want to buy should tell you subconsciously to buy it . That feeling is triggered by everything you've seen and heard. Unless you have a 500-point checklist I can promise you noticed some things about the car that you can't recall - but they're buried in your subconscious. Your impression of the current (or former) owner is a big tell. Do they seem like a car person? Someone who knows what the car is about and can tell you why it's special? Did they keep OCD-level service records? Do they have a loose-leaf binder of service records? Was it serviced regularly? Does the owner bathe? That doesn't mean you should discount a car owned by someone who gets dirty doing their work, but do they make an attempt to clean up to show you the car? How does the car look? Lots of road chips in the front end (not good - PITA to take care of which indicates someone who tailgates which means the chance of an unreported front-end accident is more likely.) Was the car detailed? I hate it when that's done. Lots of shiny sh!t on the plastic that will turn gray in a week, a quick gloss coat on the paint, and the interior vacuumed to death, and buttons scrubbed. I much prefer a car that's in it's native condition when I'm looking. If it's the right car - the car will be clean, and straight, won't smell, won't have greasy chit all over it and you'll have some idea of the care given by the swirl levels in the paint. Lots of swirls = quick auto carwashes. No swirls = home carwash done the right way (3 buckets is excessive IMHO, but 2 does help..) All this stuff is percolating in the back of your head where you can't quite put a finger on it - but it sends you a conscious message - buy me or run-away! I've been guilty of buying the "run-away" cars a few times - "seemed like too good a deal to be true." Well - it was, and I regretted it (if you check my sig you might notice a link to my list of cars, motorcycles, boats - I buy things. My wife claims too many things.) In other cases - the car sang to me "Take me home.. please.." like a puppy at the shelter. Ready to lick you and cuddle up. Those have been really good cars. Despite the number of cars I've owned there have been several that I kept about forever - for me - like 17 years with one, and 200,000 miles with another. The current Boxster is a keeper - I figure it's my last sports car - I'm getting to that age - but it's a damn fine one and one that licked my hand and said "Take me home.." so I did. Just gave it a 75,000 service today, new plugs/coils, oil (Pensotin 5W/40) - and it's running even smoother than ever. Love this car. It's Kar-Karma was a 10.. Pay attention to how you feel about the car. If something seems "off" - run away - there ARE other cars no matter how good a deal this one is. Don't mistake lust for love. The right car will be a love affair - hopefully long lasted. I actually didn't intend to buy my current car - I was looking for a 987.2 Cayman. This one appeared semi-locally and I figured I'd give it a shot (I'd been very turned off to Boxsters based on a very early 986 I drove decades ago - that was an underpowered rattle-trap and just not impressive..) Anyway - I drove it. I drove it in Staten Island, where they take the potholes that NJ starts and they plant them, and tend to them with care until they're wheel-busting craters. NOT a good place to test drive a Boxster. But - it must have done it's magic on me and begged to come home. In thinking about the test drive that night - I realized it didn't rattle, it had enough power, I liked the PDK, so it became a possibility. Next thing you know I'm reaching out to the owner to arrange for a second test drive in my area of NJ on some roads I know quite well, and one local unofficial track (Bell-Works ring-roads) - and I finished the test with the only question being how much I was going to pay for it. The owner was "right" - car fanatic who had owned many of the same performance cars I'd owned, and knew the car inside and out. The car was spotless without being greasy. It was the right puppy to bring home. I still love and enjoy it just as much now when I get into it as I did the first time 4 years ago, so that makes it a keeper. Anything else rarely lasts much more than 2-3 years with me. Life is too short sort of thing.. Let us know what it's telling you. I sense hesitation on your part - the hood difference could be it was repainted due to paint chips - that's awfully common on these cars, and doesn't really degrade the value. Look in the frunk for any crumpled/straightened sheet metal, or strange welds in the middle of a structural element (boy did that bite me once.. I blame that on buying it sight unseen based on a look-see a friend did for me. Never again.) Good luck - keep us up to date! And let the Karma be your guide.

As foodbiker said, it depends on the price... Are you looking for a "perfect" one or can live with a few dings / scratches / imperfections? Not knowing the details, what I would do: 1. If the price is around 26K or so, I would buy it 2. if above 30K, I would walk away - as Don indicated, Kar-Karma (trademarked...) Not sure bore scoring is an issue for this model but I would be more concerned about mechanical stuff (and I assume PPI came in "clean" for mechanical items)

Someone could have done a respray for rock chips and that would not show on car fax. I contacted the previous owner and he resprayed the front bumper from chips. Go with your gut.

@teddydanielz - Again, what's the guy asking for it? That may help in the decision making -- as that number will likely make everything here moot. @deilenberger 's advice -- I couldn't express such thoughts as well as he could -- even if I tried.

Why I don't like car fox: If you're a dealer with a body shop who's going to know you fixed it? If your buddy owns a shop and you slide him cash, again who's going to know?

@foodbiker @deilenberger @Boristhespyder First of all thanks for adivce. The deal is at $27K before the PPI and paint meter readings came in. I'm buying from afar so have not driven it so I can't really look at it up close without investing in a short flight. I'm going through the existential crisis of figuring out what I want. Don't want a garage queen. I want something to drive. Want a car I can work on and do my own service BUT I'm in no position to do something like an engine tear down. More like "projects 1-10" if you know what I mean. Still mulling it over. Decision coming down soon. Teddy

Thanks for posting the listed price, as that helps. With that info, here's my hot take, Teddy -- and it's totally YMMV. Although it sounds like this is ticking all the boxes you want, you don't seem super excited about it -- which leads to "when in doubt, go without" -- along the lines of what @deilenberger said. That should just shut this down alone. You have to be ridiculously excited about it, IMHO. FWIW, PDK models are more easily sourced than the 6MT, so other ones will indeed come along if this one isn't the right one for you. Trust your gut. If you're really on the fence, I'd walk. If you want this is as a daily driver, I wouldn't be worried about the paint thicknesses so much. Yes, it may have been in an accident or two and repainted. Remember that our 987s won't be ridiculously collectible and concours cars. These are cars that are meant to be driven. What I'd want to know is that all the frame is straight and it's a good paint job. Is it a private seller or coming from a dealer? Absolutely run a CarFax. It's cheap and will at least give you a rough idea if anything major happened. Meanwhile, @Boristhespyder is right - one never knows if an accident was done and hidden. If I was in absolute love with this car, and you're sending that there's room for negotiation, I wouldn't walk away so quickly TBH. Given the AC, I'd offer 23K and settle at 24K. Maybe you could assume you'll throw a max of 3K at the AC, and you're done. You'll find on P9 here a ton about wrenching on your own P-car. Without anything that requires repair, sure -- there's plenty of standard maintenance stuff that will keep you busy over time if you enjoy wrenching. Not everybody does. I personally am of very two different schools of thought, and accordingly enjoy two very different Boxsters. One is arguably a special show car (981 Outlaw 3.8L), that I do fuss over as a garage queen as that's an investment that I enjoy. The other is a 987.2 2.9L daily driver, that has plenty of dings/scratches, potentially has one of the highest mileages out there, and I drive it year-round in New England with an unobtainium hardtop. Both require love and TLC, and I'm cool with that at my point in my life. I've done tasteful mods to both (some people in the P-car community would blanch at the thought). Meanwhile, they're my cars and I'm not so worried anymore about what others think. Just rest easily that if it's not this car, you'll find what's right for you. Let us know how you get on with this, @teddydanielz ! Cheers.

I love that comment, "an unobtainium hardtop"..........as I have one (as you know) As I may go up to MA area more often, I will holler at you if I ever see a hard top 987 during the cold season. @teddydanielz I went through the same exercise last year and as Don said "it just happened" for me - while I was not actively looking at the time (or looking at a S2000 / WRX STI) but a 987 popped up on the internet 1,300 miles away with almost perfect attributes (e.g., one owner, hard top, 19 inch wheels, 74k miles, etc. a FL car / no rust, etc.). Saw the car (on the internet) on Tuesday, got additional pictures on Wed (underside mostly), closed the deal on Thursday (and got a cashiers' check), flew down Sat early AM to FL, and drove back up Sat / Sun.....wanted to do a PPI but a local, reputable Porsche shop was fully booked for like 2 month so no PPI and I took a chance (so far so good). Good luck and hope you have the right karma!!

Find a reason to buy it or find a reason not to. When I was deciding, I was looking at two cars a yellow and black 14 base and an agate grey with agate grey/pebble interior 14 base. It was my birthday at the beach and the guy would not budge on the yellow one. So even though I thought I would never buy from Carmax, I had the gate grey car shipped to my local one for $399. Worst case I eat the money. Saw the car, took is out, checked everything out. She looked great and drove great. It was a done deal. A week later the guy with the yellow one came down in price, but I did not even think about it. When I saw it and drove it I knew it was right for me. I wanted the base for the street to whine that baby out. It really is a gut feeling. I will admit a 981 is less risk than a 987.

Hoster987 - By all means, do hit me up if you're ever heading to Boston. teddydanielz - I personally am all about adventure (hence Food Biker / Road Feast ). I got my bike that I use for the show via Craig's List, knew what it was from the pictures, got a one-way ticket, bought it sight unseen, and rode it all the way back from Pensacola, FL to Boston. The stuff that needed repairs? I dealt with them over time. It was a special bike and "Ellabelle" remains so to this day. It was love at first sight. My current 987.2? I saw it on Facebook Marketplace. I knew what it was and knew it was bit of a project car. Quickly checked it out and snagged it. Has it thrown me a few expensive suprises? Sure, but thankfully nothing catastrophic so far. Each one of these vehicles -- I've quickly fallen in love with. If you're not in love, or really on the fence, walk away . The harder part is letting them go later on. What I advise people is to have the funds set aside, and get ready to quickly grab one if one comes up that's to your liking and has all the specs you want. After 10 years of Boxster enjoyment, when it comes to staying in the 987 world, I'm from the school of thought that specifically the 987.2 2.9L 6MT is one of the best cars to ever come out of Zuffenhausen. In fact, I just took a quick top-down ride here on one of the most perfect spring days here in Boston -- complete with deep blue skies and highway zooming -- and these moments are why I drive. IYKYK! Finally, have you driven a 987 before? If you're serious about it, I say go hop on the short flight to wherever it is, and go enjoy the ride home. But if it's not grabbing you, pause and you'll know when the right one comes along. It's more than the final price, TBH.

Coincidentally, I just bought a Speed Yellow Cayman today. Was most definitely not my first choice of colors (Guards Red/Black, White/Beige, Silver/black were). But I drove the two hours to look at this one. Thinking, "This is likely going to be a waste of time" the whole way there. As soon as the seller pulled in the parking lot, "Holy (expletive)" came out of my mouth, entirely involuntarily. I drove it home. I've always been highly aligned to what deilenberger has trademarked as "Kar-Karma." Today, the Kar-Karma spoke loudly to me. I'd never buy a car that didn't have that.

I countered and the seller is thinking it over. I felt good about disclosing my thinking. My offer was in line with what you all are thinking and as I poured over more pictures with more detail I think I found discrepancy in the front light wear making me feel OK about letting the seller know my concerns. What do you think about the different degree of wear on the front lights? Again, CarFax is clean for accidents. PS: pictures cropped to protect privacy but not otherwise altered from what I received from PPI.

Deer hit? The port side one has been replaced..

Could just be the sun angle makes the scratches more (or less) evident.

“However, paint isn't applied evenly to all surfaces of a vehicle. Those exposed to direct sunlight (trunk, roof, hood) often have thicker layers of paint.” Why You Should Bring a Paint Meter When You Buy Your Next Vehicle It's the little tool you never knew you needed—but owning one could save you big bucks in the long run. www.makeuseof.com

If there are no signs of body work, a previous owner may have had the hood repainted to remove paint chips. What's the paint thickness on the front bumper?

Hi. The PPI technician told me the bumper is not metallic but plastic so the measurements are not possible (well maybe possible but hard to reference). I've heard this in the past. In addition the car has a PPF on front (Clear Bra). From Nathan Merz on PCA video clips he said these have a thickness as well (~6-8 MILS/product dependent) that can be calculated in the paint assessment ( video link : @21:20). So even if the meter went through the PPF AND the hood had a high spec factory layer the measurement would be over. I think it's had work...I think the real issue for me is the Kar-Karma issue summed up above. UPDATE: No counter from seller... Thought about seeing what we could work out but then another car became available for which I had great Kar-karma about! Will keep you all updated and hopefully have nice pics of a new Boxster soon! As always, thanks for the expertise! Teddy

Many of these cars have had their hoods and bumper covers resprayed. If there aren't a billion small chips in the bumper cover and hood on a 30K+ mileage, 10+ y/o 987, these panels have almost certainly been resprayed. My 2011 Cayman base had the hood and front bumper cover resprayed a some point as there weren't a single chip to be found and when looking at the car under hard fluorescent lighting, you can see that the shade a maybe 1/2 shade off. In outdoor lighting you can't tell. The paint work otherwise looks great. My car also had really shoddy paint work done to the entire lower driver's side rocker from an apparent major scrappage at some point. The panel was yellowing. I prepped the panel, bought a can of OEM matched spray paint and 2K Clearcoat, and repainted the panel myself in my garage. Came out perfect. My 987.2 also needed a ton of typical maintenance and preventative maintenance stuff too plus a new clutch and flywheel (which I got the Porsche dealer to reimburse me for). My headlights and taillights all have tiny cracks which can only be seen from certain angles and lighting. However, you'd have to look hard to find them. The hazyness you see on the headlights of the car you were considering could easily be polished out and then a quick shot of clear coat laid over. Simple as that. I only bring this up as you said you didn't want a garage queen and wanted a car to work on yourself. I'm the same exact way. I paid a healthy penny for my Cayman base, but it's loaded including an OEM LSD , 6MT, Sport seats and wheel, HIDs, Sport Chrono and basically every option short of a leather wrapped interior. BUT as you can read above, it was not perfect even though the freaking thing was CPO'd by Porsche of Colorado Springs in October 2022 when I got it. I'm usually one to want my cars perfect, but for my Cayman , I like that it is not perfect. I don't sweat the small imperfections. Everyone that sees and rides in it thinks it's new and perfect, but I could point tons of little things wrong with it. I just love the driving the car and also seeing people's faces when I say I do the work on it. Driving the car is an experience. I got it with the intent to drive it maybe 20-30% of the time. Since I got it in October 2022, I drive it 90% of the time while my much faster 2016 BMW M235 collects dust. If you can find a 987.2 (which is rare given to few that sold) and it is close to the spec you want, I would not hesitate. A majority of the used cars sold have had some paintwork and paintwork done by a good shop will be better than OEM paint. If the hood and cover match well, who cares?

This is a great post. I think my ”newbieness” is what is coming through. As a newbie I asked around and the guys with a Porsche in the garage said “be careful with what you get, you’ll buy something that needs $$$$ of repairs. Get a PPI and be very wary…” You take that in wholly (the internet doesn’t help) and it’s unsettling because you feel like you’re about to take a plunge and it’s either gonna be a backyard pool or an angry ocean. The truth is likely something in between! I’ll keep you guys posted about what happens and my thinking because the process of acquiring a boxster is teaching me a lot of what I “think” I want and what I will end up with. I just want a driver…not a queen. The PPI that started my post was my 2nd and it’s left me asking myself what I wanted out of the PPI? To tell me I have a driver? To tell me no repairs needed for a little while so I get to drive it? Or, to tell me “hey it’s not a queen?“ (which I didn’t want to buy anyway!). I really appreciate the advice of this forum. I’ll have a clearer update by end of week! Thanks again! Teddy