Buying a 996

I am presently running an earlier model 911 but wish to change to a 996 next Spring when I will be looking for an early Tip Cab. In the meantime can anyone suggest a source of useful material on 996' s to help with getting an understanding of them ? In the past I have found compilations of road test reports to be really useful- anyone know of one of these on the 996 ? Also- did 996 Cabs come with fitted hardtops from the beginning of their production or only from later on ? If so, then what year ? One last thing - I know it is considered dumb to want to offer an earlier 911 ( mine' s a 964 Tip Cab ) to a dealer against a later 911 like the 996, but can a p/x like this have any benefits at all ? If nothing else it would cut out a lot advertising and timewasters etc ! Thanks, Steve.

Hi Steve I changed from a Boxster S to an early 996 C2 Coupe recently & spent a lot of time researching. I got most of my info from other Bulletin Boards like this. Some of these are US based but the info is often relevant. http://www.911uk.com/forum/ http://forums.rennlist.com/ http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=48&h=0 http://209.123.252.154/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=996 http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewforum.php?forum=16 I also have a full AutoCar roadtest of a 996 C2 when it first came out - over 6 pages long & can send you a copy if you want via FAX or post. Unfortunately its not the cabrio roadtest but using the web I bet you could easily find a full roadtest of the cabrio when it first came out. Also bet its easy to find a timeline for the car (when things were revised or changed on the car etc) Other than the above I did a lot of research on the web I bought mine from an Independent specialist Cridfords - who I also got my Boxster from & can recommend them - a no frills outfit. These are other places that I cam across when searching for my car. Chapelgate http://www2.uk.porsche.com/chapelgate/ AutoBahn http://www.autobahn.co.uk/ Harbour Prestige cars http://www.harbourcars.com/ MA Carriage http://www.macarriage.co.uk/_mac.htm Lodge Motor Company http://www.lodgemotor.co.uk/ Anthony Cope http://www.acope.co.uk/ Hagley Specialist Cars http://www.hagleycar.com/ Cridfords www.cridfords.co.uk Bramleys http://www.racecar.co.uk/bramley/ Portiacraft www.portiacraft.com Christopher Jackson http://www.christopherjacksonltd.co.uk/christopherjackson.htm Castle Motors http://www.castle-motors.com/castlemotors1.htm Camtune www.camtune.com Porsche.co.uk also have a used car locator - their cars tend to be £3-4k more than specialist prices but come with Porsche warranties, breakdown cover, mint condition etc etc so worth a look too. One last point.....many people consider the Boxster S to be a better buy than a very early 996 Cabriolet. Its worth a look as 2 year old Boxster S prices have now fallen beneath £30k & 996 Cab prices are quite a bit over this. There are plus & minuses for both cars - for me I always wanted a 911 so a Boxster was a stepping stone to that - but they are fantastic cars & drive beautifully. I also have a full AutoCar roadtest of a Boxster S which is several pages long - let me know if you want a copy. Hope this helps a little. Julian.

Steve, glad to see that you are still looking at the 996, as far as I know all 996 cabs came with a hard top as standard. I would have thought that you would get best value from your 964 by selling it through Porsche post, it' s worked for me before ! When it comes to trade-in at OPC' s I have found them to be rather tight to say the least, they don' t appear to offer overallowance on the PX as this is seen as discounting ...which they don' t do!! Infact in two instances I have got a better price for my car from a different OPC to the one that I was buying the car from !!! Why not consider buying privately, providing you have the car fully checked out by an OPC, & check the Vin via Porsche HQ (ensuring it is C16 Uk spec) you can get better value, all be it for more hassle, most OPC' s seem to have £4-5k in the cars, although they are well presented. Julian has provided a great list of Web information, there is also another American site called funcarsonline, that have a good 996 section, including a print out sheet on frequently asked questions (I think Rennlist also have one of these). In honesty it' s the choice of specification that is going to be the main issue for you, aside from C2 or C4. Having driven both, I think the C4 has the slight edge for driving balance (mainly because of the extra weight over the front wheels) & it has improved traction. If it was new I' d save the money & have a C2, but as the values are closer S/H I' d go for C4, which also has PSM as standard. Options...must haves..18 inch wheels, upgraded sound system, wind stop, sports suspension (if you are a press on driver) then it' s down to you..perhaps a few alloy bit' s for the cabin & possibly sports (heated?) seats & cruise control for all these camera' s !!!

Hello Julian, Many thanks for your detailed and helpful reply. Your offer of a faxed roadtest of an early 996 is much appreciated. Can you fax it to me on 0870 1373957 ? Thanks. I got the impression from your reply that early 996' s may come with a few possible problems. Is this so ? I am sure that Boxsters are great, but I am an avowed 911 fan. This is for a whole raft of reasons, not the least of which is that I can get my 6 year old daughter in the back of a 911 quite comfortably ! I shall certainly spend a few interesting hours checking out all the various websites you told me of. Cheers, Steve.

Hello Grant, Thank you too for your valued input- particularly that relating to useful extras---is a windstop also called a deflector ? I think it might be, but it' d be no good for me since I have need to use the rear seat for a passenger. Since you omitted to mention it in your lists of extras, can I take it that traction control is standard on a 996 ? Your comments on dealers, their profit margins etc. etc. was really eye-opening ! Cheers, Steve.

Not really - nothing major anyway. If you go here..... http://forums.rennlist.com/ & half way down the 996 page there is a thread called " Maintenance questions with ' 99 C2" which is a good link From memory the 2 that most spring to mind are Rear Main Seal which affects some cars & front wheel bearings (?) I think which has raised its head on Boxsters too. The MAF is also mentioned here - though I have never heard of this being a common problem on UK cars though. Early 996' s tended to rattle a little - mine doesn' t though - in fact my boxster rattled more ! A search on this board should pull up any " early 996 niggle" type posts...but thats all they are - niggle I will FAX tomorrow as the road test is at home

Oh & rough idle - most early 996' s had a rough idle - mine does but is cured by putting the aircon on ! Seeing as I have it on most of the time I hardly notice it.

Hi Steve, you are welcome, the wind stop/deflector does negate the rear seats, as you mentioned, but is still worth having for solo trips ! Unfortuntely traction control wasn' t standard on the C2, it all depends on which model year you are looking at as to which system you would get, the earlier traction control system was ok, but not that hot in honesty, I used to turn it off most of the time ! The current system is far better & it' s limits are set so high that you can leave it on all the time, it' s called PSM (launched in 01MY I think, & standard on the C4 but extra on the C2) & this is very effective as it allows each wheels/brake to used independently for maximum control of under/oversteer, on the C4 it also uses the 4wheel drive system to apportion traction for further effect ! The first 996 I owned was a 98 car & this had what they called " the sports pack" fitted, that included sports seats, sports suspension & traction control (& 18" wheels I think) as part of the package. If you give the chassis number of the car you are looking at to Porsche HQ' s warranty department they will usually fax you it' s full specification & other details, providing it is a UK car. There are a lot of 996' s in the secondhand market & you can afford to be choosey, you should get very good value at the moment. If you do decide to buy privately, make sure you get the car valued by a Porsche buyer (they all advertise in the Times on Sunday) & then you will know the true value of the car before you part with the folding. Most private sellers seem to try & ask for near dealer prices, but they won' t get it, nearer the trade value is the reality. As I said B4 also make sure it is C16 (Uk spec) spec with FSH & have that OPC check over, let us know how you get on.

Grant this may sound like a stupid question but can I retrofit PSM or some kind of stability management module into my 1999 C2. Wondering if it maybe a case of connector ready but just need switch and module to plug in.

Hello Grant, Thanks for all that useful info. It confirms that I really need as many roadtests/reviews as I can get my mitts onto ! Did any editions of the PCGB monthly mag give any useful articles on 996' s ? Your message begs these questions :- You referred to " C16" . Is this a code for a UK spec. car ? If so, where it is featured - in the VIN no ? Will the Warranty Dept at Porsche HQ let anyone have details of the relevant spec. provided the Chas. No. is given ? Who are these " Porsche Buyers" you referred to in the Sun.Times ? Are they the " Have cash, will travel " fraternity- or are they the inspecting engineers that' ll check the car over for you ? Whoever the buggers are, don' t they advertise in the PCGB mag ? One last question, how many bleeding 996' s have you owned !!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers, Steve.

Hi Vorland, great pair of cars, look good on the drive. As far as I am aware there is no way you can retro fit either traction control or PSM, sorry, what spec did you get ???.

Hi Steve, by the sound of your past careful selection of cars, you will get one hell of great 996. The vin is displayed in the offside window, with the full number including country code & options fitted at factory/new on a paper sticker which is under the bonnet. Porsche HQ have always been very helpful with me & faxed through full details on a selected car, but only if it is UK sourced. Steve because demand outsripped supply on the 996, many independant dealers imported cars direct, some of these came via Cyprus, Switzerland etc into the Uk. Each country can have a slightly different specification, for example Germany does not spec. full leather, top tint, air-con or thatcham1 alarm as standard, where as these are all standard on a UK car. Each new car has a country code & the UK code is C16, so if the car isn' t C16 you will never find out exactly what it has or hasn' t got (for example underseal varies by country), Porsche uk are very cagey about other country specs. Although they are still proper Porkers I still think it' s best to avoid non C16. The buyers I am refering to are O fficial P orsche C entre buyers, they are a gold mine of information & will give a true value on your choice. In answer to your last question I am on Porker number 6, this includes 3 996' s (98, 01 facelift & 02 TT). Unfortunately I am a car nut &, like you,like to research the chosen purchase & enjoy reading reviews etc. Let me know how you get on & if you need any other info Regards Grant P.S. I have never seen any useful reviews on 996' s in PCGB mag. although the 996 register does offer Gary Sorrell from Lancaster Porsche as an expert contact. best review' s Autocar, Evo & a buyers guide in Porsche & 911 world + Evo.

Hi Grant, If I am fortunate to get a good car when I eventually buy my 996, it' ll be more because you have taken the trouble to provide all the info. you have, rather than by dint of any skill on my part ! Good Grief, I had no idea about all the imported 996' s that were brought into this country to meet demand ! Won' t these all be left hookers, though ? What side do they drive on in Cyprus and Switzerland ! I am also curious as to your comments about demand exceeding supply - perhaps this was the case, but unless I am horribly wrong, aren' t 996 prices diving right now ? They certainly appear to be so to me, and I make this comment based on my observation that six months ago you' d need £50 k for the spec. I want, whereas I have seen 2 or 3 996 Cab Tips available for less than £40 k now. Have you ever thought of putting all of your 996 buying knowledge in a letter to the PCGB mag ? It' d certainly help people like me through the minefield ! Counting my old man' s 911' s I reckon to have had 16 pass through my hands ( 9 were mine ). I had thought that I knew ' em just a tad or two- I am not so sure now ! Cheers, Steve

Hi again Steve, thanks for the kind words, I am sure if it was a 964 Porker we were chatting about I would be learning much from you. Just clarifying the import thing, the cars are RHD, you can order a right hand drive direct from the factory for any country (EEC regs.) but also need to specify country build, hence C16 or otherwise. You are right about prices dropping on 996' s, but they are a victim of their own success, waiting times were a year in OPC' s & people weren' t willing to wait + exchange rates were good, hence many import' s. Now the 996 has been out for 6 years (& the new 997 is due end of next year) demand is obviously tailing off & as you say they represent a damn good buy. 9 Porkers eh, I see you have the car bug as well, it' s a slippery slope this car thing, go looking for a Reliant Robin & end up with a Lambo !!!

Grant, Jumpin' jehosaphat ! Every mail from you yields even more nuggets of 996 info ! I can see I'm gonna have to start reading the Club magazine ( Heaven help me, since the mag.is just a tad on the dry, or do I mean boring ?, side ) Was that how you learned about the 997 ? From what you say, I am tempted to postpone my 996 purchase in order to get the latest car for the lowest moolah- all the more so since I do want traction control ( having lost control of my 964 BIGTIME a couple of years ago ! ), plus I think that a C4 is probably more sensible, since I can see me using the new 911 all year round rather than, as I have done for a donkey's age, use it in the Summertime only. I am looking forward to getting the faxed 996 info. that Julian is going to send me, but in the meantime, is it worth buying any of the Porsche/911 mags that now abound ( or do they ? I strolled into my local W.H.Smith yesterday and there was nary one to be seen ! ) Have a Good One ! Steve.

Ayup Steve, being a sad petrolhead, I have subscriptions to Autocar (who unveiled news of the 997 first) & Evo, plus usually end up with Car & others !!! I find PCGB mag. the same as you do & I'm not a big fan of the specialist Porker mags (although I still tend to read them!!) unless you are looking for new goodie's for your pride & joy. I think the best two buyers guides where in Evo & porker & 911 World who should be able to get you a back issue. I notice that your father has also had 5 Porkers, is this 911 thing hereditary ??

Hello Julian can you give me your opinion of the differences you have found between your 996 and Boxster S. Currently I own a S so it would be good to get some feedback from a driver of both all the best Andy

Andrew, at the risk of hogging this thread a bit, I can give you some feedback (prior to Julian answering) as we are lucky enough to also own a Boxter "S" & I have had a pre-& facelift C2. I actually think the Boxter is the best value Porker in their range & despite having a TT I still love driving the S , particularly roof down on a sunny day, here with my thoughts for what they are worth.................. Compared to a standard Carrera 2, the Boxter sounds better & has sweeter handling, also the wind in the hair aspect is hard to beat. The C2 has noticably more grunt (particularly the facelift, which has MUCH better midrange/low rev pick up) & a different & unique feel because of the rear engine, it feels better slower into a corner & faster out of. It has more outright grip, but will also understeer & "float" more than the Boxter. Coming out of an "S" I would STRONGLY recommend the 10mm lower sports suspension, this transforms the feel of the 911 & although it will have a firmer ride than the Boxter, it makes it into a more hard core drivers car. The C4 has extra weight over the nose & that combined with the extra traction make it feel more planted & chuckable !! Summary...If you want a soft top stay with the Boxter, it's hard to beat, particularly on a nice sunny day. If you want a more hardcore drivers car get a 911, but it must have sports suspension (10mm, the 30mm is far too harsh) & a sports exhaust if it is pre-facelift (they improved the exhaust note on facelift cars). Best value of the current 911 range for me is the current C4S, but they are still overpriced second hand at the moment ! Let me know if you need any other info, if I haven't bored you to death by then !!!

Attention of Julian Bolger, Hi Julian, I never did get the copy of the 996 roadtest you offered to fax me. I know it is a pain to have to fax 6 pages, but I'd really appreciate it if you would. My fax number is 0870 1373957. Or is a snailmailed photocopy to me better for you ? If so, then my address is :- "Malladyne House", Carlton Bank, Harpenden,AL5 4SU. Cheers, Steve Lyden-Brown. p.s. Do you know of a website that gives 996 timeline info ? I haven't been able to find one.

Grant just got back from hols - thanks for your useful summary; I may well take you up on your offer for further info regards Andrew

Hi Sam, if you can you get to the 996 FAQ section of the forum there is lots of info in there: 996 Model History and Variants 996 MY2002 Facelift: A Summary etc. Lots of things to think about. I used Peter Morgan to source and check mine for me and he kept me from buying anything I hadn't specified originally (when I started getting a bit impatient). http://www.porscheinspections.com/ The main thing for me was condition, service history and colour. The 2002 facelift version gets a 3.6 litre variocam plus engine rather than the 3.4 as well as the Turbo look front wings and headlights. Bhp increased from 300 to 320. Other slight improvements too. The earlier car is still a good car though. One thing to look out for on all 996 models is an oil leak from the Rear Main Seal (RMS) which occurred more frequently on the earlier models. Most will probably have updated seals by now but it can still occur. Pitting on the inner of the brake disks can happen if it is put away in the garage when still wet. The only thing I can find on the 2003 models is below, I'm sure someone will correct me if there is more: --In the summer of 2003 the C4S cabriolet was introduced. On all 2003 cabriolets, the roof could now be raised and lowered at speeds of up to 50km/h (31mph). The structure of the C4S cabriolet was slightly stiffer than the standard cabriolet, with an increased torsional stiffness of 4.5%, and flexural stiffness by 3%. The Carrera C4S was built well into 2005, prior to the release of the997 version. Porsche Communications Management PCM 2.0 was also introduced in 2003-- Do you want 2wd or 4wd, manual or tiptronic? Just a few ideas but don't be put off, I love mine! Good hunting.

All good advice, something to think about while I am doing some preliminary research. Thanks v much. sam

Hi guys, Ended up buying a 2000 996 with the aero kit. All working well as far as I can see and very happy with it - but have 2 questions for someone with some knowledge on the matter. 1) Fan mounted above the engine on the engine lid - when is this meant to switch on - not sure if mine works as there was a lot of leaves in it.. Also, what does it do? 2) It pulls to the left slightly - what could this mean? Your responses are greatly appreciated, Thanks very much. Sam

Well done, but TTIUWP....

Well done Sam, but Martin is right - we need pictures! From the Technical Articles section: After-running of engine compartment fan If the ignition is switched off and the engine compartment temperature is more than 60 °C, the DME control module remains in readiness for another 20 minutes. During this time, the engine compartment temperature is retrieved every 10 seconds. If the engine compartment temperature is >85 °C, the engine compartment fan is switched on for 20 seconds. If the engine compartment temperature is still >85 °C after this time, the fan remains on for a further 30 seconds. As for the steering pulling, check the tyre pressures and if they are OK get an alignment check done.

2) If it pulls to the left it may be due to the camber of the roads. If it pulls to the left on flat roads, then as has been advised, check your tyre pressures (preferably not using a petrol station gauge) or get your geometry checked out.

Congratulations Sam, hope you enjoy. If you are not sure how to post the requested pictures try the following: Use a free photo hosting site such as http://www.photobucket.com. Open an account and post your pictures there, then copy the url address from the hosted photo (which can be found when you click on the share tab whilst looking at one of your photos) and post it into your message in this forum by clicking on the yellow/black "add image" icon on the toolbar of the message box and pasting the url address in the popup box. Click ok and your picture should appear in your message. Hope that helps.

Thanks for your help guys. I will check if the fan is working next time I go for a burn and have switched the engine off then. Checked tyre pressures, and front left seems low, so I will rectify as soon as I can get to a garage... As for pics, the snow has prevented me getting out in it much, but here is the one I do have: Very happy so far, seemed weird buying an older car with more miles, but spending more money at the same time - think I made the right choice though. One further question - not bowled over with the speakers (standard, non-bose 6-cd) - any easy things I can do, ie slot in a new amp, or is it a big job to upgrade - as I don't wantto be tampering too much with it. Thanks again Sam

Very nice indeed! If it's a C4, you should have a small compressor in the tool kit you could use to pump up the tyres. As for the speakers - do you have door speakers? If so, you probably already have the Sound Package amplifier. Check the option code sticker for "490".

Nice pic - like the wheels. Regarding the sound system, yes the speakers are a weak point. Jon Mitchell's in Christchurch (http://www.jmgarage.com/) has developed a speaker upgrade solution for the 996... or you could do a diy upgrade - do a search on here and/or pistonheads, it has been discussed in quite some detail already.

Nope, not a C4 im afraid - garage pump will have to do. Sorry to seem stupid - but where is the "option code sticker" But as far as I can tell, I have speakers on the dash, lower front doors and in the rear, and what looks to be an amp by the cd changer in the front boot compartment. Will have a search for audio related stuff as suggested. Thanks!

Ignore the option code question - worked that one out for myself.... [8|] haha.

Don't be the C2 is by far the best choice (manual). Congratulations lovely look car.

One more question while I think of it - The only issue with the car, which I knew when I bought it, is the driver side window doesn't work. The garage I bought it from said they would get it fixed for £200 and knocked that off the price - but it is a bit far away from me to go running back... Anyone know a good independent around guildford- surrey that could do the work (is it specialist or quite easy) - I think it is the window motor that has gone they said. Thanks again!

You might try PARR at Crawley ... They look after my 996, and are fastidious in what they do. Image

Try Adspeed in Horsham; been there for years and a lot cheaper than (very expensive) Parr.

exactly the same as mine - think you'll find that is the 'upgraded' sound system (but not bose). I've upgraded the head unit to a becker GP (looks original) and has bluetooth and mp3/wma support. Using same amp - do a search on here for becker and you should find my postings of about 2.5 years ago re the upgrade. Speakers (I read on here) are some grotty nokia paper cone ones - hence upgrading them (as suggested above) should give you best increase in sound per pound spent.