DeMan GT4.5 - The best water-cooled Porsche I've ever driven - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

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I think I see you in my future......

The most interesting thing was the shorter ratios. Not sure a Cayman needs over 500bhp.

TDT said: I think I see you in my future...... A UK owner going that route what a weapon (the 4.5 not the UK owner ;-)

993rsr said: TDT said: I think I see you in my future...... A UK owner going that route what a weapon (the 4.5 not the UK owner ;-) Would be a tiny step closer to the big daddy 98x

I've seen some of Rick's stuff over on Rennlist, he knows his onions for sure! I thought I read over there that he wasn't going to offer the 4.5 to the public though, just the 4.3? It's great to see someone going all-out with Caymans

Twinfan said: I've seen some of Rick's stuff over on Rennlist, he knows his onions for sure! I thought I read over there that he wasn't going to offer the 4.5 to the public though, just the 4.3? It's great to see someone going all-out with Caymans Apparently there are about 30 4.5L in the wild, in a few countries, worldwide.

Any of those in the UK?

Having a casual play with a 991.2 GT3 RS

BubblesNW said: Any of those in the UK? Not yet.....so you might be safe for a while yet.

Still waiting to get mine back. Won’t have 510bhp at the wheels though.

BubblesNW said: Still waiting to get mine back. Won’t have 510bhp at the wheels though. To be fair, number is just number... it’s what it does on the road that really matters. Hoping you get yours back soon... can have some fun then. Interestingly DeMan have made this into a bit of turn-key solution, which is great for customers, stock of all their spec parts on the shelf, so they only need the engine and transmission for about 3 weeks, if they are doing a conversion of original drivetrain. Just need to get your engine and transmission out and over to them... they can work with your local shop for adjusting the tuning for regional fuel grade etc.

come on tyrone, do it now!!!!

Snowy999 said: come on tyrone, do it now!!!! Haha... We need to catch up actually. I’ll ping you over the coming days

BubblesNW said: Still waiting to get mine back. Won’t have 510bhp at the wheels though. Exciting ... I wonder how our tuned 3.8's compare to the reality of the 718 4.0 ? Given that Porsche manipulate the numbers to suit ... On the other hand, the 718 Clubsport does not use the new 4.0l .... I am surprised at how fast the 991.2 PDK GT3 is !

ChrisW. said: BubblesNW said: Still waiting to get mine back. Won’t have 510bhp at the wheels though. Exciting ... I wonder how our tuned 3.8's compare to the reality of the 718 4.0 ? Given that Porsche manipulate the numbers to suit ... On the other hand, the 718 Clubsport does not use the new 4.0l .... I am surprised at how fast the 991.2 PDK GT3 is ! As you allude to... quoted numbers are not the full story. Tweaked 3.8 (intake, headers, tune) and 718 4.0 and not that far apart in reality, from what I’ve seen so far...more about how and where the power is made that is the difference between them. Driver and chassis setup will probably make more of a difference I’d say at this stage.... more data to collect. PDK 991.2 GT3 is different again especially if you have room to use the full rev range. Not sure it would get away from a 4.5L GT4 though. It’s possible the 718 Clubsport will eventually switch to the 4.0, in the end... especially if an RS road car is released... Porsche will want to re-establish the link. There are new revision CS cars running around at circuits in Europe with new aero not see on the CS before.... again maybe linking it back to the upcoming RS. Edited by TDT on Tuesday 4th May 22:53

Interesting ... from Ralph ! I was at Cadwell Park sparring with 718GT4's and from a power perspective I didn't have much of an advantage, if any .... https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1062...

ChrisW. said: Interesting ... from Ralph ! I was at Cadwell Park sparring with 718GT4's and from a power perspective I didn't have much of an advantage, if any .... https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1062... Yep... driver and chassis setup make much more difference between the two, and then the key factor in engine performance is what happens to the torque in the mid range and then after 6800rpm... meaning you keep building power to the redline.... if you have a long enough straight. If you have lots of corners, technical and twisty, you need the chassis and can really leverage that mid range punch. For around the cost to upgrade from my 981 to a 718... I’ve got at least comparable engine performance, but far better chassis... now on KW CS 3-way joining the MR arm package, and more durable braking... MR pads and PFC V3 rotors. That might not make sense to some people... but some people like to modify and sharpen a car into the direction they want it to be. The looks of the 718 GT4 have grown on me a lot, it’s a nice revision, apart from the rear wing and some angles of the rear (always an issue on Caymans) I had a nice play in one on the weekend... it’s a different feeling to my car, no doubt about it... but some things to like also. Edited by TDT on Tuesday 4th May 23:25

Not forgetting that the learning is in the journey ... The PDK 718GT4's will be fast ... RS the ultimate unobtanium ... and still slower than the GT3 for bragging rights. Regarding which, the joys of the 991.2 on the public road are very brief !! It does make me wonder about gearing again ?

ChrisW. said: Not forgetting that the learning is in the journey ... The PDK 718GT4's will be fast ... RS the ultimate unobtanium ... and still slower than the GT3 for bragging rights. Regarding which, the joys of the 991.2 on the public road are very brief !! It does make me wonder about gearing again ? If you want to shift more... then re-gearing will give you that. You’ll get even more interaction... and depending on which solution you go for.. the gear drops should drop you into more of the meat of the power band. For me I’m only going to do the gearing if I would also do a capacity upgrade like the DeMan, because that seems most cost effective to me... as a side note others also do capacity upgrade packages.... 4.2 and 4.5 Ref the RS...of course without knowing what it is... for me... it surely can’t be as good as it could possibly because if the 911... the Cayman Complex.... so where will Porsche position it? And price it? Will be better than a 718 GT4 with Full Manthey-Racing package... hard to think it can be less they do something with the rear suspension layout... away from struts..... And ref the journey... it certainly has been one... stories to share one day... Edited by TDT on Tuesday 4th May 23:40

Thanks for the Club reference credit Chris. You guys should also talk with Jens. He has 4.0L and 4.2L capacity upgrades, no doubt he could also change gearing, fit PDK or even a SADEV sequential. He installed the 3.8L in my PDK Cayman S and in all respects except power level, it was just as it might have emerged from the factory. I agree with the GT3 v GT4 view that the 3 is just at another level, primarily the engine but also the factory is more serious about developing the car. I just changed from a 718 GT4 to a 991.2 GT3 and you have to do it once in your life... Edited by gtsralph on Wednesday 5th May 08:13

gtsralph said: Thanks for the Club reference credit Chris. You guys should also talk with Jens. He has 4.0L and 4.2L capacity upgrades, no doubt he could also change gearing, fit PDK or even a SADEV sequential. He installed the 3.8L in my PDK Cayman S and in all respects except power level, it was just as it might have emerged from the factory. Yep, Jens was who I was referring to as ‘others’. He has 4.5L option as well as his recommended 4.2L. I do think there is a sweet spot probably a bit under the maximum 4.5 for Cayman, as that much torque will be pretty fighty on the rear? With the strut based set up?

Yes yes yes yes yes please. That is awesome. The torque curve is amazing, allied to the close ratio box that will be a fearsome track weapon. At last this looks like a cohesive package that will work well on the mid engined platform. There have been plenty of developments on the platform, including me with a 3.9L Cayman with 400bhp at the wheels and plenty of torque, but nothing that really ticked all the boxes. Assuming that this holds together reliably on track and on the road, properly cooled, no oil surge, no grenade gearboxes then count me in. Take one 718GT4, add the bits (£40 -£50K at a guess) and wave the other GT products bye bye. This or a potentially unobtainable GT3RS or GT4 RS? At least you could use this without worries about it’s value

I'm curious about the manual gearbox. DeMan put an extra 100+ bhp/lb-ft through it and it doesn't gog pop, yet Porche limit it supposedly as it's not warrantied by the manufacturer above 420Nm/309lb-ft. So does the rebuild with shorter gearing increase the limit it can handle? Or are Getrag and/or Porsche overly sandbagging for some reason?

Wow! That looks amazing, I wonder what the logistics would be for someone in the UK though? Sounds like a bit of a nuisance to have to send engine and gearbox to the US. Ideal for a track focussed GT4 but you it be insurable for an even vaguely sensible sum as a road car?

Flying machine said: Wow! That looks amazing, I wonder what the logistics would be for someone in the UK though? Sounds like a bit of a nuisance to have to send engine and gearbox to the US. Ideal for a track focussed GT4 but you it be insurable for an even vaguely sensible sum as a road car? It’s pretty straightforward. Contact DeMan... Done. Find a shop you trust to work with.... they’ll take out the drivetrain, regular work for a half decent shop... but choose carefully. Obviously has to be crated and shipped. Rick says they can do the build in about 3 weeks. They’ll ship back. Your shop will install... and work with DeMan to finalise the tune for your region, fuel grade etc. Obviously there’s shipping cost and probably taxes to pay... I’ll be honest not sure what those are...also I don’t know how long shipping there and back will take.... yet! Alternative is to look closer to home.... there are shops on mainland Europe that can offer similar package.... can just drive the car over. DeMan don’t yet offer the parts only...maybe some day, who knows. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:15

TDT said: It’s pretty straightforward. Contact DeMan... Done. Find a shop you trust to work with.... they’ll take out the drivetrain, regular work for a half decent shop... but choose carefully. Obviously has to be crated and shipped. Rick says they can do the build in about 3 weeks. They’ll ship back. Your shop will install... and work with DeMan to finalise the tune for your region, fuel grade etc. Obviously there’s shipping cost and probably taxes to pay... I’ll be honest not sure what those are...also I don’t know how long shipping there and back will take.... yet! Alternative is to look closer to home.... there are shops on mainland Europe that can offer similar package.... can just drive the car over. DeMan don’t yet offer the parts only...maybe some day, who knows. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:15 I looked at shipping my car or just the 3.4L engine over to John Tecce at BGB for the 3.8L swap but whilst PCA give good core credit on traded in engines, shipping, customs, and timescales convinced me I'd better find another way...

gtsralph said: TDT said: It’s pretty straightforward. Contact DeMan... Done. Find a shop you trust to work with.... they’ll take out the drivetrain, regular work for a half decent shop... but choose carefully. Obviously has to be crated and shipped. Rick says they can do the build in about 3 weeks. They’ll ship back. Your shop will install... and work with DeMan to finalise the tune for your region, fuel grade etc. Obviously there’s shipping cost and probably taxes to pay... I’ll be honest not sure what those are...also I don’t know how long shipping there and back will take.... yet! Alternative is to look closer to home.... there are shops on mainland Europe that can offer similar package.... can just drive the car over. DeMan don’t yet offer the parts only...maybe some day, who knows. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:15 I looked at shipping my car or just the 3.4L engine over to John Tecce at BGB for the 3.8L swap but whilst PCA give good core credit on traded in engines, shipping, customs, and timescales convinced me I'd better find another way... Do you mind sharing ball park numbers?... I have a number getting this done by Jens... both 4.2 and 4.5... you just drive or trailer the whole car over.... He quoted around 6weeks before to do the build, but I’d imagine a fair amount of that time might be getting the dyno slots for live mapping. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:47

Tyrone ... we should talk if we could both do something with Jens ? I'm at Donnington on the 13th and Anglesey on the 15th May ? Jens says that the gearbox is good for 550nM .. or is it Nm ? My daughter is dyslexic and I'm working on my excuses Too many questions. Ralph, thanks for your approval to pasting the Porscheclub link ... it really is a great source of information with less heresay (heresy ?)

ChrisW. said: Tyrone ... we should talk if we could both do something with Jens ? I'm at Donnington on the 13th and Anglesey on the 15th May ? Jens says that the gearbox is good for 550nM .. or is it Nm ? My daughter is dyslexic and I'm working on my excuses Too many questions. Ralph, thanks for your approval to pasting the Porscheclub link ... it really is a great source of information with less heresay (heresy ?) Let’s talk next week at Donny.

Come rain or shine ? It should be a good get-together !!

TDT said: ChrisW. said: Tyrone ... we should talk if we could both do something with Jens ? I'm at Donnington on the 13th and Anglesey on the 15th May ? Jens says that the gearbox is good for 550nM .. or is it Nm ? My daughter is dyslexic and I'm working on my excuses Too many questions. Ralph, thanks for your approval to pasting the Porscheclub link ... it really is a great source of information with less heresay (heresy ?) Let’s talk next week at Donny. Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times.

Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Where is this campsite you riff raff are camping at so i can join you for a curry. If you need me i'm staying at Jurys Inn. Edited by Taffy66 on Wednesday 5th May 16:02

ChrisW. said: Not forgetting that the learning is in the journey ... The PDK 718GT4's will be fast ... RS the ultimate unobtanium ... and still slower than the GT3 for bragging rights. Regarding which, the joys of the 991.2 on the public road are very brief !! It does make me wonder about gearing again ? Hi Chris. I have a 996GT3 with a cup final drive and diff and a 996 RSR gearbox. That combination gives very short gearing, especially from 2nd gear onwards. My observations are predictable. If you are looking for a track biased car, shorter gearing modifications are worthwhile. If the car is road biased, I’d maybe leave it. The novelty will soon wear off.

Taffy66 said: Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Where is this campsite you riff raff are camping at so i can join you for a curry. If you need me i'm staying at Jurys Inn. Edited by Taffy66 on Wednesday 5th May 16:02 Send me a text taff so i can log your number,i will then send the postcode for the riffy campsite,says he staying at the Jury spit and sawdust establishment That deman car looks pretty good,get it done tdt

Steve Rance said: ChrisW. said: Not forgetting that the learning is in the journey ... The PDK 718GT4's will be fast ... RS the ultimate unobtanium ... and still slower than the GT3 for bragging rights. Regarding which, the joys of the 991.2 on the public road are very brief !! It does make me wonder about gearing again ? Hi Chris. I have a 996GT3 with a cup final drive and diff and a 996 RSR gearbox. That combination gives very short gearing, especially from 2nd gear onwards. My observations are predictable. If you are looking for a track biased car, shorter gearing modifications are worthwhile. If the car is road biased, I’d maybe leave it. The novelty will soon wear off. A very talented and handsome driver was a previous custodian (not slippy)

Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Are we even worthy to be at the same event? Assume you will have ‘staff’ to keep the rifraff like me out.

993rsr said: A very talented and handsome driver was a previous custodian (not slippy) This is very true. I like the gearing by the way - and the fact that the car seems to be constantly trying to find different ways to kill you. I especially like that

TDT said: Do you mind sharing ball park numbers?... I have a number getting this done by Jens... both 4.2 and 4.5... you just drive or trailer the whole car over.... He quoted around 6weeks before to do the build, but I’d imagine a fair amount of that time might be getting the dyno slots for live mapping. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:47 The build time will be more about getting the rebore and head machining done + crank, pistons and camshafts - all will be bought for individual projects. He uses MTO up near Osnabruck for ECU tuning and given he’s done these before I’d expect just a couple of days for that. I’m not sure who builds his engines. Do you know what cylinder lining/wall coating is after rebore? If I was doing this I’d have him fit a PDK box. Given the potential customs / carnet issues with trailering, I’d drive over. All sounds very exciting, I had just the one project in me otherwise I’d be tempted to get a 981 and do the engine, gearbox, and some running gear a la Clubsport.

Steve Rance said: Hi Chris. I have a 996GT3 with a cup final drive and diff and a 996 RSR gearbox. That combination gives very short gearing, especially from 2nd gear onwards. My observations are predictable. If you are looking for a track biased car, shorter gearing modifications are worthwhile. If the car is road biased, I’d maybe leave it. The novelty will soon wear off. Thanks Steve, the guidance is appreciated ... it's always a question of how far to go ? I'm in £30k so far (with a big box of original bits including a full set of 9000 mile PCCB's ...) ... Regarding gearing, at the moment my car has a resonance at 75mph in sixth which is much sweeter in fifth ....! Further engine mods are sounding very expensive ...

Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. It's been far too long to waste any time

gtsralph said: TDT said: Do you mind sharing ball park numbers?... I have a number getting this done by Jens... both 4.2 and 4.5... you just drive or trailer the whole car over.... He quoted around 6weeks before to do the build, but I’d imagine a fair amount of that time might be getting the dyno slots for live mapping. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 5th May 12:47 The build time will be more about getting the rebore and head machining done + crank, pistons and camshafts - all will be bought for individual projects. He uses MTO up near Osnabruck for ECU tuning and given he’s done these before I’d expect just a couple of days for that. I’m not sure who builds his engines. Do you know what cylinder lining/wall coating is after rebore? If I was doing this I’d have him fit a PDK box. Given the potential customs / carnet issues with trailering, I’d drive over. All sounds very exciting, I had just the one project in me otherwise I’d be tempted to get a 981 and do the engine, gearbox, and some running gear a la Clubsport. It’s certainty interesting. I did message him today… he has everything needed in stock ready to go apart from pistons.… so would need to order those. Not sure about the cylinder wall coating. If anything it would be winter project… only just got the car finally ready for the season.

The anticipation of cost is making my eyes water ...

993rsr said: Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Are we even worthy to be at the same event? Of course mate,do you fancy camping and curry,or curry and a beer. Assume you will have ‘staff’ to keep the rifraff like me out. we have taffy for that Looking forward to it,i wonder if R will be along.

Yellow491 said: 993rsr said: Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Are we even worthy to be at the same event? Of course mate,do you fancy camping and curry,or curry and a beer. Assume you will have ‘staff’ to keep the rifraff like me out. we have taffy for that Looking forward to it,i wonder if R will be along. Will see if I can head up the eve before, Taff's got a room i'll top 'n' tail with him.

993rsr said: Yellow491 said: 993rsr said: Yellow491 said: Hope you two dont come and bore us with gt4 stuff ,otherwise we wont let you drool over some nice cool cars,looking forward to it,we have a campsite and indian takeaway organised,along with a few beers,be like old times. Are we even worthy to be at the same event? Of course mate,do you fancy camping and curry,or curry and a beer. Assume you will have ‘staff’ to keep the rifraff like me out. we have taffy for that Looking forward to it,i wonder if R will be along. Will see if I can head up the eve before, Taff's got a room i'll top 'n' tail with him. That would be great,i would not top and tail with taf though,he might start dreaming he is in your car again. Maca and mel are up the night before also.

Yellow491 said: That would be great,i would not top and tail with taf though,he might start dreaming he is in your car again. Maca and mel are up the night before also. I'm ok with top and tail as long as all social distancing rules are adhered to. I actually had nightmares for a whole month after my spin in 993rsr's CGT around Silverstone. I also left a nasty stain on the tartan seat but don't tell TDT as he promptly took my place for the next bout of helter skelter laps.

Taffy66 said: Yellow491 said: That would be great,i would not top and tail with taf though,he might start dreaming he is in your car again. Maca and mel are up the night before also. I'm ok with top and tail as long as all social distancing rules are adhered to. I actually had nightmares for a whole month after my spin in 993rsr's CGT around Silverstone. I also left a nasty stain on the tartan seat but don't tell TDT as he promptly took my place for the next bout of helter skelter laps. Haha... I wondered what the funny smell was...

Does anyone in the UK have this engine fitted yet?

Babw said: Does anyone in the UK have this engine fitted yet? Not a 4.5 as far as I’m aware, but I know that at least one 4.2 is in build.

TDT said: Yep, Jens was who I was referring to as ‘others’. He has 4.5L option as well as his recommended 4.2L. I do think there is a sweet spot probably a bit under the maximum 4.5 for Cayman, as that much torque will be pretty fighty on the rear? With the strut based set up? It would be fine, I'm putting a lot more torque down than that in my 987 Boxster without issues.

Escy said: TDT said: Yep, Jens was who I was referring to as ‘others’. He has 4.5L option as well as his recommended 4.2L. I do think there is a sweet spot probably a bit under the maximum 4.5 for Cayman, as that much torque will be pretty fighty on the rear? With the strut based set up? It would be fine, I'm putting a lot more torque down than that in my 987 Boxster without issues. Interesting... What are you running in the 987?

Mine made 540ft/lb at the flywheel at 4500rpm. Roughly converting the DeMan 4.5 into flywheel figures, it's about 430ft/lb, it's certainly impressive. I've got 295 section Yokohama AD08R tyres and a Quaife diff to help put the power down, I'd expect most GT4's with this engine package to have equivalent or better tyres and diff. I was reading the comments on that video, someone who drove the car said "This engine has so much punch you can spin the wheels in 3rd without trying". I doubt that

An Audi 2.7 bi-turbo lump. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

What motor have you got in that? Ah!!.... Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T Edited by TDT on Friday 15th October 17:41

Slippydiff said: An Audi 2.7 bi-turbo lump. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Yep - just found it!

Yeah, a dirt cheap Audi lump. I'm impressed with how composed my 987 is. It puts the power down like it was designed for it. I'm sure a GT4 will take that power hike in it's stride, which seemed to be the opinion in the video.

Is there any development on this in the EU? I’m keen to do it on my 4.0BGTS but haven’t found any shop offering similar (UK and Germany)

stef1808 said: Is there any development on this in the EU? I’m keen to do it on my 4.0BGTS but haven’t found any shop offering similar (UK and Germany) Unfortunately no decent options and I had been looking seriously... - I believe the 4.x 981 build that was in progress in the UK no longer exists.... - Ehresmann in Germany could technically do it (Jens would recommend 4.2x or 4.3 - give similar performance as the DeMan offering) - but proved difficult to get the project off the ground. ...I gave up in the end and bought a 718 GT4 as new project to work on, as on balance - I didn't know if i could stomach throwing more money at the car, getting a custom build like this and then have maybe a 1 year warranty (if that) and then it all goes up in smoke, with limited support in the UK lol. For the 4.0 9A2EVO - a decent exhaust system will unlock a lot of performance... with a light remap - 460hp is achievable. You can then either do CW&P which people seem to like or talk to DeMan about their 2-5 ratio package.... that means sending/exchanging a transmission but overall less risky than full engine. Personally... no engine/drivetrain changes for me apart from maybe LWFW... other than that.. Chassis, Aero, Brakes and seat time. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 14th September 18:08

TDT said: Unfortunately no decent options and I had been looking seriously... - I believe the 4.x 981 build that was in progress in the UK no longer exists.... - Ehresmann in Germany could technically do it (Jens would recommend 4.2x or 4.3 - give similar performance as the DeMan offering) - but proved difficult to get the project off the ground. ...I gave up in the end and bought a 718 GT4 as new project to work on, as on balance - I didn't know if i could stomach throwing more money at the car, getting a custom build like this and then have maybe a 1 year warranty (if that) and then it all goes up in smoke, with limited support in the UK lol. For the 4.0 9A2EVO - a decent exhaust system will unlock a lot of performance... with a light remap - 460hp is acheiveable. You can then either do CW&P which people seem to like or talk to DeMan about their 2-5 ratio package.... that means sending/exchanging a transmission but overall less risky than full engine. Personally... no engine/drivetrain changes for me apart from maybe LWFW... other than that.. Chassis, Aero, Brakes and seat time. Edited by TDT on Wednesday 14th September 17:57 Thanks a lot for that fast reply. I’m still considering sending the drivetrain to USA but reliability is indeed a concern - also had a 800nm sachs clutch before and swore I would never use it again on a road car. Remap and exhaust for 460 bhp sound very interesting though Edited by stef1808 on Wednesday 14th September 18:10

From BGB in the States (for 981) : STAGE III UPGRADES - Stages I & II plus a stroke increase to 4.0L, or a stroke & bore increase to 4.2L. Estimated engine power output of 490 - 560 hp & 320 - 380 lb/ft of torque (depending on displacement & exhaust). INCL. ALL STAGE II UPGRADES Displacement Increase to 4.0L, 4.2L or 4.3L Porsche Stroker Crank Shaft Upgraded Connecting Rods Larger Bore Pistons ADDITIONAL SERVICES AND CONVERSIONS 3.8L ENGINE CONVERSION: Starting at $28,500 INSTALLED (Includes core exchange) *plus tuning – Pricing includes a fresh remanufactured 3.8L engine from Porsche Cars North America and ALL labor to remove the existing engine, convert the new 3.8L power plant to Cayman / Boxster fitment, prepare the new 3.8L engine for installation, install the new engine, road test to ensure drivability, prepare the original engine for core return to Porsche and all required shipping costs. 2009 – 2012 987.2 base 2.9L cars require EFI –> DFI conversion for additional charge of $7500. X51 POWERKIT CONVERSION (REQUIRES 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $19,500 INSTALLED *plus tuning – Includes retrofit of Porsche OEM Carrera GTS X51 Power Kit & labor to install in vehicle. 4.0L STROKER CONVERSION (Requires 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $21,000 INSTALLED * plus tuning – Includes 4.0L stroker crankshaft, BGB designed Mahle pistons, Carrillo connecting rods, new bearings, gaskets/seals and hardware. Assumes 500 miles or less on existing engine – higher mileage engines may require additional engine case half plating. 4.2L BIG BORE CONVERSION (Requires 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $24,500 INSTALLED * plus tuning – Includes OEM Porsche stroker conversion parts, BGB designed Mahle pistons for 4.2L cylinder bores, Carrillo connecting rods, new bearings, gaskets/seals and hardware. CNC PORTED CYLINDER HEADS: $3,995 PLUS LABOR – Our custom CNC porting is a great addition to any of the above engine conversion to help free up as much as 20rwhp. PRICING DOES VARY PER APPLICATION, PLEASE CONTACT US FOR A CUSTOMIZED QUOTE THE NUMBERS ABOVE ASSUME USAGE OF NEW OR REMANUFACRURED OEM PORSCHE PARTS. THESE NUMBERS DO NOT ASSUME ANY ADDITIONAL AFTERMARKET BOLT-ON MODIFICATIONS IN THE FORM OF EXHAUST, INTAKE OR ECU UPGRADES. THESE MODIFICATIONS CAN BE ADDED DURING THE CONVERSION AT NO ADDITIONAL OR DISCOUNTED LABOR COSTS. If you want it built in Europe, it's either Jens or RS Tuning, but the latter will be eye wateringly expensive. PM or email Toby B******** AKA TB993tt on here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=... He'll be able to give you the name of a contact/s at RS Tuning. Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 14th September 18:28

I spoke to John @ BGB also…. Great guy…he’ll go to 4.3L max…. and his build are at least as potent as the 4.5L builds. Again… issue is local support here in the UK. Although…RS Tuning do have a UK agent…Tech9? Edited by TDT on Wednesday 14th September 18:48

Slippydiff said: From BGB in the States (for 981) : STAGE III UPGRADES - Stages I & II plus a stroke increase to 4.0L, or a stroke & bore increase to 4.2L. Estimated engine power output of 490 - 560 hp & 320 - 380 lb/ft of torque (depending on displacement & exhaust). INCL. ALL STAGE II UPGRADES Displacement Increase to 4.0L, 4.2L or 4.3L Porsche Stroker Crank Shaft Upgraded Connecting Rods Larger Bore Pistons ADDITIONAL SERVICES AND CONVERSIONS 3.8L ENGINE CONVERSION: Starting at $28,500 INSTALLED (Includes core exchange) *plus tuning – Pricing includes a fresh remanufactured 3.8L engine from Porsche Cars North America and ALL labor to remove the existing engine, convert the new 3.8L power plant to Cayman / Boxster fitment, prepare the new 3.8L engine for installation, install the new engine, road test to ensure drivability, prepare the original engine for core return to Porsche and all required shipping costs. 2009 – 2012 987.2 base 2.9L cars require EFI –> DFI conversion for additional charge of $7500. X51 POWERKIT CONVERSION (REQUIRES 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $19,500 INSTALLED *plus tuning – Includes retrofit of Porsche OEM Carrera GTS X51 Power Kit & labor to install in vehicle. 4.0L STROKER CONVERSION (Requires 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $21,000 INSTALLED * plus tuning – Includes 4.0L stroker crankshaft, BGB designed Mahle pistons, Carrillo connecting rods, new bearings, gaskets/seals and hardware. Assumes 500 miles or less on existing engine – higher mileage engines may require additional engine case half plating. 4.2L BIG BORE CONVERSION (Requires 3.8L ENGINE): Starting at $24,500 INSTALLED * plus tuning – Includes OEM Porsche stroker conversion parts, BGB designed Mahle pistons for 4.2L cylinder bores, Carrillo connecting rods, new bearings, gaskets/seals and hardware. CNC PORTED CYLINDER HEADS: $3,995 PLUS LABOR – Our custom CNC porting is a great addition to any of the above engine conversion to help free up as much as 20rwhp. PRICING DOES VARY PER APPLICATION, PLEASE CONTACT US FOR A CUSTOMIZED QUOTE THE NUMBERS ABOVE ASSUME USAGE OF NEW OR REMANUFACRURED OEM PORSCHE PARTS. THESE NUMBERS DO NOT ASSUME ANY ADDITIONAL AFTERMARKET BOLT-ON MODIFICATIONS IN THE FORM OF EXHAUST, INTAKE OR ECU UPGRADES. THESE MODIFICATIONS CAN BE ADDED DURING THE CONVERSION AT NO ADDITIONAL OR DISCOUNTED LABOR COSTS. If you want it built in Europe, it's either Jens or RS Tuning, but the latter will be eye wateringly expensive. PM or email Toby B******** AKA TB993tt on here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=... He'll be able to give you the name of a contact/s at RS Tuning. Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 14th September 18:28 Awesome. Cheers http://www.jens-porsche-service.de/jh_web/motoreng... Is this Jens?

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http://www.ehresmann-automotive.com/ https://www.facebook.com/9x1.org BTW his 4.x builds were for 981..9A1, not sure if he has completed this on 9A2EVO Does offer remapping for the new engine however! Edited by TDT on Wednesday 14th September 19:14

993rsr said: TDT said: I think I see you in my future...... A UK owner going that route what a weapon (the 4.5 not the UK owner ;-) Just get a 996.2 GT3 - then you won't pine for all these upgrades

One came up for sale a DeMan 4.5L 560hp Cayman with the 3.8 as a basis. Also much info about the cost of such and the 'little' things... eye watering well, the owner bought many extra's see that list in the pictures, who needs a Cayman GT4 RS with a puny 500hp and automatic and ear bleeding airintakes , when you can upgrade your 3.8 or 4.0 to the 4.5L DeMan and have 560 NA hp... ooooh. This example does not have my more likeable colors or interior, but who cares, 560 NA hp lol the exhaust is very clean, burns fuel well I guess. more info and pictures etc> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2016-porsche-cay...

TDT said: For the 4.0 9A2EVO - a decent exhaust system will unlock a lot of performance... with a light remap - 460hp is achievable. As predicted more options to deliver in this are available in UK now, turning a ‘casual’ 718 GT4 into a very serious weapon with ~465hp and 470NM from just a change to sport headers + oaps with 200cell cats and corresponding tune.

Has anyone ever seen these 560bhp engines lay down a 100-200 or a 1/4 time?

I assume that graph is showing a comparison of two map options ? If the gearbox is rated at 550Nm as Jens Ehressman suggested to me, how close with that engine be ? .... or might it be the crown wheel and pinion that is the limiting factor ? and gearbox oil cooling / de-foaming ?? The latter are solvable issues ...

I'm putting over 700nm through a Cayman S 6 speed so I'd expect it to be fine.

Escy said: Has anyone ever seen these 560bhp engines lay down a 100-200 or a 1/4 time? This is a Deman 4.5, seems to be roughly around low 8.x seconds from timing it myself. Fast, but not as fast as I'd hope given stock 718 GT4s can do 8.5 and lightly modded ones can do 7.5. (100-200kph ie 62mph-124mph) https://youtu.be/m_5F5H4Nlus?si=gGHwqUD4vBtVOW4d

Escy said: I'm putting over 700nm through a Cayman S 6 speed so I'd expect it to be fine. The 981 GT4 transmission has a known issue, hence Jens Ehresmann quoting what he considers to be it’s torque limit.

Is this the welded third gear (splined on very early cars) or something else ?

ChrisW. said: Is this the welded third gear (splined on very early cars) or something else ? Yep, the 3rd gear issue Chris : https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4-spyder/961476-gt4-...

honda_exige said: This is a Deman 4.5, seems to be roughly around low 8.x seconds from timing it myself. Fast, but not as fast as I'd hope given stock 718 GT4s can do 8.5 and lightly modded ones can do 7.5. (100-200kph ie 62mph-124mph) https://youtu.be/m_5F5H4Nlus?si=gGHwqUD4vBtVOW4d Looking on the Dragy app, there is a GT4RS that did 7.45. You'd expect the Deman to be quicker than that. Fastest GT4 I can see on there is 8.07, spec just says headers. At 4.50 in this clip you can see a GT3 leaves it behind in a straight line. My Boxster has done 6.2 100-200, I don't have a current power figure but I'm around the same 560bhp mark. Everything is always bigger and better in America when it comes to power figures but I'm not convinced these Deman engines back it up in the real world.

Escy said: honda_exige said: This is a Deman 4.5, seems to be roughly around low 8.x seconds from timing it myself. Fast, but not as fast as I'd hope given stock 718 GT4s can do 8.5 and lightly modded ones can do 7.5. (100-200kph ie 62mph-124mph) https://youtu.be/m_5F5H4Nlus?si=gGHwqUD4vBtVOW4d Looking on the Dragy app, there is a GT4RS that did 7.45. You'd expect the Deman to be quicker than that. Fastest GT4 I can see on there is 8.07, spec just says headers. At 4.50 in this clip you can see a GT3 leaves it behind in a straight line. My Boxster has done 6.2 100-200, I don't have a current power figure but I'm around the same 560bhp mark. Everything is always bigger and better in America when it comes to power figures but I'm not convinced these Deman engines back it up in the real world. Yeah something isn't adding up. This is a clip of the JCR Manual 718 GT4 doing 7.47 100-200, no tune apparently. https://www.instagram.com/jcr_porsche/p/CNsZsP1Fvy...

honda_exige said: Escy said: Has anyone ever seen these 560bhp engines lay down a 100-200 or a 1/4 time? This is a Deman 4.5, seems to be roughly around low 8.x seconds from timing it myself. Fast, but not as fast as I'd hope given stock 718 GT4s can do 8.5 and lightly modded ones can do 7.5. (100-200kph ie 62mph-124mph) https://youtu.be/m_5F5H4Nlus?si=gGHwqUD4vBtVOW4d Now that the 4RS exists and overs are boiling off, and also that the 9A2EVO can be readily tuned to c460hp and 470nm for not much money… i don’t think that doing a capacity build like this really makes much sense at all the UK imo. This particular build is delivers a high compression motor at the very limit of what might be possible and way beyond what Porsche think is viable… the GT3 R Rennsport tops out at 4.2L on the current gen GT case and Manthey topped out at 4.4 on Mezgers.

Slippydiff said: ChrisW. said: Is this the welded third gear (splined on very early cars) or something else ? Yep, the 3rd gear issue Chris : https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4-spyder/961476-gt4-... Regarding the US experience of third gear failures: Numbers sold by build date per month .... Total failures by build date .... There is now a permanent fix and even modified cars have been repaired FOC with a re-manufactured Gretag gearbox. The failures have not been limited to GT4 models in this time frame ... Porsche have not been specific about the problem or the solution ... but there was certainly a change in the manufacturing process that caused the problem ...

It’s an AISIN gearbox originally designed for Audi with different half shaft layout angles. I believe it was designed for low revving turbo engines not the higher revving Porsche applications. The failures were a manufacturing process problem caused by changing to welded gears from splined to which they later reverted.

Thanks Ralph, I picked up Gretag from the Rennlist post which suggested that GT3 boxes were Aisin and the GT4 box was Gretag ... happy to be corrected. And very pleased to hear that splined was the original specification and the solution !