Convertible Top Problem, Top Won't Open

On my 2000 C4 Cab the top stopped opening yesterday. The clam shell opens and the latch at the top of the windshield opens and then it stops. You can hear some clicking. When I run my Durametric it shows a fault code, 5 - maximum time exceeded. If I clear this error it re-appears. A little background on this. Yesterday morning I used the RemoteTop on the car to open the top and it opened about 6" then stopped. This had happened a couple of time recently. When I got in the car and used the dash switch the top opened all the way. We went to the farmers market and used the dash switch, with the one touch option using a SmartTop module and it closed fine. When we returned to the car and used the RemoteTop/Key to open the top only the clam shell raised the the windshield latch opened and nothing else. then tried the dash switch with the same result. Top closes all the way with the key or dash switch but does not open. This car has a SmartTop that was installed 10+ years ago. Also a RemoteTop that was installed 6+ years ago, the original style without the separate power feed, which failed about 2 years ago and was repalced with the newer version that has the separate power feed. This worked well until a month or so ago when the top started opening almost all the way and would stop just short of closing the clam shell. I spoke to Mods4cars and they had me reset the timing by starting the opening procedure, pushing the windshield micro switch withing 8 seconds of starting, and pushing it again one the top was down and before the windows raised. This seemed to fix the problem. Also the top was replaced 3 months ago but has worked fine up until now. I tried to recalibrate the the top with the Durametric and nothing would happen, I had tried this in the past. I removed the RemoteTop and the problem still existed. Then I removed the SmartTop module and the problem still existed. But here is something interesting, when the SmartTop module was removed the Durametric recalibration worked !! AT least it started, but stopped at the same point, Clam Shell Open and windshield patch open, then stops. Same error code shows up, max time exceeded. There are no error codes for bad micro switches. I have check the oil level, it was slightly low, and refilled it. No leaks or anything else. Checked micro switches for the clam Shell, top mounted latch assembly, and windshield assembly and all seem to work, although I have not ohmed them. It seems that once the clam shell is opened and the latch opens, there is come clicking but the pump doe not start and the top does not move. Looking for suggestions on what to look for. I know this is a little long but I wanted to give as much information as possible. Thanks

I would check the clamshell potentiometer setting - if it's off the top drive motor won't function ( at least it wouldn't on my 1999 Cab ) .

The shop manual has a detailed procedure for resetting the top latch timing which is mechanical and requires removal of the top latch and a 9 volt battery .I had to do both the clamshell and the top latch to get mine working .I am not sure what the durametric software actually does on calibration ,but the diagnostics were a big help .

I only have 2 suggestions for you to check Doug. Car Battery and the actual fold of the back window. My reason for suggesting the window fold is for the last 5 years I had problems with the top not opening or closing correctly because of the correct fold. Stand outside the car, use the key in the door method up to half way then tuck that first fold with your right arm then complete the opening of the top. leave it like that so the top learns the correct way (if you know what I mean). This year is the first time my top has worked every time (so far). Other than that, I have nothing for you to try. BTW I only had to hold the fold one time on closing it. It remained correctly folded for the winter period and has worked flawlessly since removing the hard top and opening the soft top in spring.

Dcdreschel Well I removed the top latches, checked the micros witches and reset the latch. That did nothing. Then I removed the clamshell drive motor and tried to reset the potentiometer. The manual says to remove the potentiometer from the motor but I could not get it off the motor. I did finally get the potentiometer reset to the 6.2K but now the motor runs, either with a 9v battery or in the car, moving the toothed shaft but not spinning the square shaft of the potentiometer which is what drives the clamshell mechanism. So something is screwed up. I did use a 9v battery to test the pump and it works, but still doesn't run on the car power. Any help would be appreciated.

OK, I made a little progress. I finally got the potentiometer off the clamshell drive, reverse threads on the bolt that holds is on which thread into the shaft driven by the motor. When I had been turning this bolt it had drawn the shaft out of the motor gear (hard to explain exactly how this thing works) which was why the motor was not engaging the drive shaft. So now the potentiometer is set, the motor is back on the drive mechanism, the mechanism is reinstalled and the clam shell goes up and down again. The top latch at the windshield is reset and I check one of the microswitches in it and it works, and I checked the microswitch in the windshield header and it works. Now the bummer. I am back to where I started from. The clamshell raises, the top unlatches at the windshield, but the hydraulics don't start operating. Bummer! TheRe is one difference though. Before the clamshell was opening up all the way before the top latch started, now they are operating simultaneously. There are two more microswitches in the latch mechanism at the windshield, I think I will test them tomorrow. I tested the hydraulic pump with a 9v battery and it seems to work. I am wondering if the control module has failed in someway, or maybe a relay has gone bad. I will also try a calibration with the Durometric and check the fault codes. Again, any helpful suggestions?

Ug...........does the hydraulic pump run at all ? When I had a similar problem the pump would momentarily run but not move anything . I think you still have a timeout issue which the durametric might verify .Are the flaps working ? Also the top position potentiometer might need a quick check -which is really a stretch .I would definitely try the durametric calibration routine past that I am clueless . Dave

The pump does not run at all. I did check it with a 9v battery and that caused it to run a bit. I wanted to check and see if the pump ran at all or had failed. I will run the Durametric again tomorrow, check fault codes and try the calibration. As I said before it as showing a maximum time exceed fault and when I would clear it the next time I tried the top it came back. And with the calibration it opened the clamshell and the latch and the stopped. It dos not seem to show faults such as a bad microswitch. Bummer. I have a buddy with the same car and may try to swap the controller to see if that is the problem, but all this takes time. I read one thread where an owner took it to the dealer and they tried a recalibration, could not get it to work and said it would be hourly for them to go through it and check component by component. But if the tech has experience with tops it might go quicker than my working on it. We are supposed to drive up to Toronto Tuesday afternoon and wanted to be able to put the top down. Not much time between now and then. Last Saturday it was working and the just quit.

OK, I think I have a solution. I had forgotten that I had the Aftersales Training Manuals for the car. Just read through the section on the convertible tops. It give great details and a step by step description of the entire sequence of the top systems. It tells how each microswitch controls each step and how each motor is controlled, how if one step is not completed the next will not complete. A great resource. Based on this I am guessing that one of the side flap microswitches that show the flaps in the bottom position has malfunctioned or come loose. If these microswitches don't show the flaps in the bottom position then the top motor/hydraulics won't operate. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will be the problem. I test each one and if one is not working simulate it being I the right position. If the top motor starts to work I will know that is the problem. Then if a local dealer has one or one can be sent overnight from Atlanta I will have a working top for our trip. I will also be able to help others if they have problems. By the way i have the Service Manuals and these training manuals in PDF format and I am always willing to share them (DropBox) if anyone is interested. Lots of peop,e have the Service Manuals but these After Sales Teaining Manuals are fairly rare outside of dealers and have lots of details not found in the Service Manuals..

thanks Doug, watching this closely since i'm sure it'll happen to me.

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Good luck with your top and I hope you can fix in time for the drive to the Big Smoke. I'm reading your thread in fear of this happening to me down the road. The manuals would be a great resource to have should the unthinkable happen and I'd appreciate a copy if you are willing to share. If nothing else it would be interesting to have a technical breakdown of how all the pieces function. Wish I could add anything of substance technically to your troubles but you'll have to settle on my best wishes for success.

I think you found it .Pin 10 and 8 0n control unit should be grounded for top down .

So I checked the microswitches on the flaps and they were working, at least at the switches and connectors so that was not the issue. I also took off the top position potentiometer and checked its values which seem to be right. So now I have checked all 9 microswitches, checked the potentiometers, reset the the latch, and still the same problem. Clamshell opens, latch opens but the top does not open. I used a multimeter on the leads to the pump motor and there is no voltage going to it. Checked it with the Durameter again and it shows the same timeout fault. If I clear it and try the top the fault registers again. Did the calibration again and it stops at the same place. There is a click when the clamshell is fully open and another a few seconds later. This is the timeout. If the top does not move after a few seconds it times out. Tomorrow I am going to my buddy's house and I am going to swap out his control module for mine, I know his works. If that solves the problem I know the control unit has a fault and can replace it. If that does not solve the problem I am not sure what I will try next. There is a possibility that a ground has gone bad, but those can be a real pain to chase down.

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Have you checked the fuse that feeds power into the pump motor ? Sometimes a fuse may look OK, but it is not.

The control unit powers both the flaps and pump motor .If the flaps move the control unit has power .It sounds like the pump motor driver circuit is not working or a wire to the pump motor is open .

You are correct, I do no see a fuse between the module and the motor.... It appears the ground to the motor comes from its attachment to the chassis (via screws, bolts or nuts), as nothing else appears in the circuit. Given that pin 1 is the one that opens the top, possible reasons: 1.- The module is not receiving all the OK signals to open the top and send the +voltage (seems you did all the homework here?, checked also the signals from the power windows, etc...?) 2.- The motor is shorted inside, grounding the +V voltage (hence reading zero) - unlikely 3.- There is something wrong inside the module (circuitry driving the motor) - likely 4.- Wire coming from the module to the motor is broken - likely

Did you figure out the issue? I have a newer to me 04 and have notices that this a common issue with droptops. I know that earlier p-cars have solder joint issues in control units and opening the boxes then resoldering seemed to correct issues in both the speedometer and convertible top control box.

It is the control module. I swapped on from my buddy's car and the top works. So now to find a used one. They list for $725.

Wow. Great job diagnosing the issue. Also disappointing poor quality.

I was lucky to have a friend with the same car so I could swap the modules and determine that was the problem. The module lists for $725 and the local dealer said it would take 3-4 days to get although I could probably paid extra to have it Fedexed overnight, but it was already after 2 in the Chicago area so it was probably too late to get it shipped today from Porsche. I can usually get a discount at one dealer so maybe about $600 plus shipping. Instead I went on eBay and there were probably 10-15 of the things on sale ranging from $114 to $423. The part number on mine is 996.618.111.03, but that is super ceded to 996.618.111.04. I called some of the sellers directly, the less expensive ones, but one did not answer their phone and one said it was too late to ship it today. LA Porsche Dismantlers had a few when I called them. They said $350 with shipping. When I pointed out that the listing on eBay was $174.99 He said OK that as he price. For overnight shipping they wanted $60, for delivery before 8 AM they wanted $95. I went for it and just got notice from FedEx that it will be here before 8. So I should have a working top for our trip this week!! Thanks to everyone for their help and comments. I am pretty familiar with the tops now so if anyone needs help fell free to ask.

$ 300.00 all in isn't too bad .I can't imagine what the dealer cost to diagnose would have been . Since there appear to be a lot of used control units available doesn't sound like they break that often and is a good case for a used one . Enjoy your trip............ Dave

Dharn, I am glad you found the root cause, hopefully the replacement unit will get you going. If you have time (at some point after your trip)......It would be interesting to open the module and look around inside....to see if there is any obvious signs of component damage.... And thanks for the offer to help, owning a convertible has its challenges.....and if the time comes, I will take you on the offer !

OK,not he new/used controller is in, the top recalibrated and everything works fine. I also reinstalled both the Smart Top and the RemoteTop and they are working fine (remember that the recalibration function does not seem to work with the Smart Top installed). So the used part was not too expensive, and I could have gotten in for less if I had been willing to wait until I got back from our trip, but now we can enjoy the top down. I have had the car for 16 years, and the only other long trip we took was to the east coast in 2003 so we are looking forward to this ride. When I think about the "diagnostic time" I spent it was probably 10+ hours. I hate to even think what this would have been at the dealer at $175+/hr. these days. They might have gotten it done quicker if they had a tech that had worked on tops much, but then they would have wanted to use a new controller at $725+ tax, so I am sure it would have been $2,000+. In the past I was the reference for how to fix a cracked head/intermix, I guess now I can be a reference for how to fix a convertible top��

Invaluable info and thanks for sharing (y)

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Hello, Just reading one of your old posts on trying to get a roof working on a 04 911. Any chance you still have the service manuals you could share with me. Thanks and regards, Luch

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T I am experiencing similar problem with my 2007 C4S Cabrio. I would appreciate if you could share the pdf manuals if possible. Thanks in Advance

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PM me your email address and I will send you a DropBox link with the manuals.

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I too would appreciate the manuals, I am having issues with my 1999 cabriolet top,

Me too

I tried to send a DM to our friend @Dharn55 but his inbox seems to be clogged up. I, too, would love the manuals.

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I might have seen that manual somewhere. Let me check, and I'll send you a PM if I find it.

Count me in on those manuals please. My convertible top is not working.

I have it too, PM me I can email.

Hello Doug I have similar problems with my 2003 cab. Can you send me too these manuals, please

Hi Doug can I get that Cab manuals - please !

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Thanks, Bill

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Cab manuals... Me too please, Thanks BBC

sorry only showing part info still looking

Hey, you mentioned that you could share your aftersales training manuals. I would really appreciate this. I have the service manual but I'm about to dive into my top issues and could use the help!

I am afraid maybe we lost the original poster and here I am with a malfunctioning 997 Cab top. Does anyone have a copy of the manuals?

Yes please. Seems I am still subscribed to this old thread. Manuals in any form would be appreciated. Bill

@Dharn55 still posts from time to time. I will tag him so hopefully he sees your requests.

Many thanks, Bill

I might know where to find a copy of these manuals. Shoot me a PM.

I have the Service Manuals and the After Sales Training Manuals in PDF. Send me your email address and I will send you a Drop box link.

I was at PCA Parade last week and my top stopped working, with the same symptoms as yours. I have the aftersales training manual but my hard copy of the Workshop Manual is missing section 61, which naturally covers the convertible top. If you could send me a copy I would greatly appreciate it. I pm’d you separately. thanks

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hi - I am having similar issue with my roof. Much appreciated if you can share the service manuals. I will also DM you separately. Thank you very much in advance.

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can I get a copy my email is [email removed]

Hi Doug, hope your trip to Toronto went well! I am experiencing similar conv. top problems. Please send me a Dropbox link for the service manual and sales training manual. My email is [email removed] Thanks, Peter.

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Me too please [email removed] my 03 c5 has same issue

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Be sure to check out my convertible top repair series on my channel. I go over the steps and resolve my issues. You Tube

Great video Yogi! I have a similar problem with my conv. Top. What software did you use for your laptop? I am thinking of trying a Foxwell NT 710. Any advice?

It looks like Dharn55 hasn’t seen our post. If anyone received or has the Service Manual and Sales Training manual, please share with Charles and I. Thanks!!

If anyone has a copy of the pdf that Doug mentioned for the convertible top troubleshooting I would appreciate it you would forward it to me. We are having trouble getting though the calibration on my 04 996 TT. Send to the following email, [email removed] .

See if this works for.

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Remember, each stage of the open/close has to finish. So based on that, you should be able to see where it's stopping. Case in point, recently my top started acting up again. Since I had the rams rebuilt, and I personally fixed the top I knew where to look. The issue for me was that the side flaps are old and worn and the gear on one side is failing so it's not reaching max height, thus never triggering the microswitch. Also, the top will NEVER calibrate if it was never reset properly. That doc should tell you how to get to that point. Don't skip a step. Good Luck!

Hi Doug, I have a 997 2009 with roof issues and your training manuals would be awesome. Can you please send the link to [email removed] ? Really appreciate it, Thanks, Andy.

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hey there! Do you happen to have section 9- Microswitch for the flaps? That�s what need to repair. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks!!

Suddenly I'm having a similar issue that @Dharn55 described. The top failed to open 2 or 3 times, but worked after closing and retrying. Now it doesn't open at all. The front unlatches, the clamshell opens, and the flaps fold down, but then it times-out.I'm not hearing any noises after that. My car is a 2000. Does anyone know if I need a (used) controller from that specific year or just one from any MK-I? I think I read that brand new ones need to be coded and I'd like to avoid using a dealer for that.

More probable one of the flap microswitches isn't set .not too hard to check with a meter

also there is oil in the pump

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Not sure where I would even look

Hi there We have a 2005 996 Cabrio with very much the same issues as described on this forum, however someone installed some sort of bypass switch that "shorts" something for a couple of seconds and lets the process be complete. This happens about 5" before the clam latches once the hook opens, and the same while opening it opens and releases the clam moves about 5" and tnen stops so you press the temporary switch (old starter button on the side of the car ) while pressing the dashboard button and it works , you have to release the button right after that part of the process ends otherwise you blow a fuse.. very strange any thoughts anyone? I would really like those manuals if possible! thanks! By the way i have the Service Manuals and these training manuals in PDF format and I am always willing to share them (DropBox) if anyone is interested. Lots of peop,e have the Service Manuals but these After Sales Teaining Manuals are fairly rare outside of dealers and have lots of details not found in the Service Manuals..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dharn55; By the way i have the Service Manuals and these training manuals in PDF format and I am always willing to share them (DropBox) if anyone is interested. Lots of peop,e have the Service Manuals but these After Sales Teaining Manuals are fairly rare outside of dealers and have lots of details not found in the Service Manuals..[/QUOTE] Hi, I know it has been quite a few years since this post. But I just got myself a 997.1 Carrera Convertible and these manuals can be of great help. Can you share them with me please. [email removed]

This seems like a bit of a 'forever thread' that people refer to, so I'll add my experience in case it helps others. 2006 C2S Cab. At the end of a few very wet days the roof goes down.... then won't go up again, with the dreaded "Convertible top not at at limit position" error. I fought it for a couple of hours, then following this thread, realized it was failing after the clamshell was open and the little side flippers had gone up. On a hunch I tried one more time and pulled up on the little flippers after they seemed to have moved into place. Presto. The top worked again. My guess, after the rain, the microswitch jammed a bit. I'll have to see if it's better when things dry out.