Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts

Hello all. I'd like to get a little feedback if possible into what everyone thinks about several options available to me to hopefully remedy a long running issue with my car's suspension. There is a lot more details in modicifcations section under the Ohlins thread, but to make a long story as short as possible, at about 64,000 miles my 07 Cayman S started behaving extremely poorly from a handling standpoint. I took it to a local Porsche specialist and they initially couldn't find anything but a worn engine mount and slightly perished front control arm bushings, so those two items were replaced, the control arms with GT3 units to enable a little extra camber. That didn't remedy the issues, so a second visit yielded a verdict of completely shot dampers. At that point, I decided to park the car for the winter and wait for Ohlins to release their R&T suspension for the 987, which they had confirmed was on the way in the spring. I previously had Ohlins on a BMW 135i, and they were nearly magical, so I thought it would be worth the wait. As it turned out, the kit I received seems to have been defective from day one. It rides horribly, and it appears the front right damper often sticks nearly completely, resulting in a horrific crashing that makes you wonder if you bent a wheel or mushroomed a shock tower. There have been repeated issues with Ohlins sending incorrect parts, being difficult to get in touch with or slow to respond, and finally when all of the band-aid fix attempts they asked me to do, including lighter springs, etc, didn't work and it became completely clear they were dealing with a defect, they stopped answering emails and phone messages completely. I had to go through the dealer I bought them from from that point on, and he finally got Ohlins to agree to a full replacement set, after over a month of calls and emails etc, and finally not taking no for an answer and staying on hold for 45 minutes to get to speak to someone. Some background info. This car will never see track time, at least not repeatedly. It may make a trip around the Nurburgring or two if the cards fall just right, as I am currently waiting to hear whether I got a job in Germany, but that would be the extent of it's track duties. The primary factors I look for in a suspension are compliance, the ability to keep the tires planted, and predictable handling. I'm not looking to wring the last 10th of a second out of my laps, and I don't want to be 2 inches off the ground. I want a car that can deal with real roads with poise and confidence, and not beat me up. So, the new set of Ohlins is on the way now, but I'm honestly just having a hard time deciding what to do with them. Here are the basic options I am tossing around at the moment, and I would appreciate some feedback. Speaking with my dealer ruled out an intial though, which was JRZ. Apparently they have a rather dismal reliability record for their road products, and horrible customer service if you are not a race team. So here are my options as they stand at the moment. Option 1: Give Ohlins another try. Option 2: Bilstein PSS9s. These come with a recommendation from my dealer, but a small caveat that he said they are not particularly great in very fast sweeping turns. I may soon be moving to Germany, so that could be a deal breaker for autobahn use. Option 3: KW V3s. I have not been able to find much feedback on how these perform on the 987, so any opinions are welcome. Option 4: Something I haven't thought of. I'm open to suggestion on this front So, what do you guys think I should do? What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts How about option 5 - Bilstein Damptronics + TPC DSC standalone version?

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts I would recommend the options just like you list them, with the last one being the x73 package from Porsche. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts What was the poor handling issue you were trying to address initially? Presume you checked tires/pressures at that point. For a street 987S I'd go with the Cayman R retrofit.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts The X73 package, because you know it will work and you could probably get it done in Germany if that option plays out. Good Luck!

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts The initial issue was extremely vague tracking, which progressed into skittish ride and eventually extremely squirrely handling on anything other than a glass smooth surface within a few weeks. It simply didn't want to keep the tires in contact with the road on rough surfaces, and was downright scary int he wet. I initially suspected something with the steering, but that was ruled out by a shop with incentive to replace anything they needed to replace, as the car was still under extended warranty at the time and I gave them a full greenlight They said tie rod ends etc were fine. The tires were initially an issue, but were replaced less than 600 miles ago with only very minor improvement. I've heard conflicting reports on the Cayman R setup. Many people seem to think it's just too stiff. Will have to research that one. Have not heard of it. I actually contacted TPC last week to ask what they would suggest, as they are only about 40 minutes drive from here. They initially asked if the car was PASM, then never responded when I answered that it was not. Never heard of the standalone version of their DSC. When I priced it before, it came out well over 4 grand with wiring harnesses, gyro, etc. What is the standalone version, as that is not listed on their website to my knowledge.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts What was the condition of the struts that were removed? it may be difficult to originally identify the gremlin, but after the parts are removed, a knowledgeable shop should be able to tell you if the OEM struts were shot. I would want to know more before I spent time and money chasing after fixes. They should already know what was failing and what needs to be replaced. Ohlins have a great reputation. If they are sending you a new set, then I would use them. Otherwise KW and JRZ are excellent choices. Most of the people that I know consider Bilstein's to be good, but a step below KW, Ohlin or JRZ. I have JRZ's and am very happy with them. And I know several people with JRZ that are very happy. Maybe get some other opinions before deciding JRZ has a dismal reliability record. Maybe get second opinion from another Porsche specialist shop in MD. TPC seems to know a lot about Cayman mods, and there are other shops as well.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts I've now had 2 authorized JRZ dealers either give me suspiciously lukewarm, or straight up "stay away" advice on JRZ. TPC racing answered a question about the RS1s by saying "we have installed them" with no further information offered and suggested Bilstein PSS9s or Traxxis instead. My dealer said he has turned down thousands of dollars worth of potential business with JRZ due to repeated design failures on their Subaru products and horrific customer support. He said their race stuff is great, but he would stay away from their RS line as roughly 30% of his sales had a major issues that turned out to be design failures within 6 months of sale. As far as the condition of the factory struts, they were shot. Bump stops were almost completely disintegrated, and at least one of the rear shocks could be easily compressed by hand. I didn't bother taking the others apart after confirming what the shop told me. I did the work myself. They went in the trash. The issues with the Ohlins have been really strange. Generally it rides horribly, with a real nasty tendency to "crash" over sharp edged bumps as if the car had completely bottomed out, and a disconcerting feeling of weight shifting around in unnatural ways. On two occasions, I got a loud popping noise from the front right, and the car suddenly started riding worlds better. It stayed that way for about a day each time, then returned to the poor behavior with another loud pop, or several in one case. I'm convinced there is something seriously wrong with the right front damper, possibly others as well as I have repeatedly heard popping sounds from the rear right as well. I have repeatedly ensured that all bolts are properly tight, etc, as the noise made me suspect that something was loose. Nothing is loose that could be causing the sounds, I've probably checked the entire thing 4 or more times at this point.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts You want compliance and predictable handling. I'd suggest just getting a stock setup. Cayman R and X-73 will be to stiff from what you've said. All of the aftermarket setups will be stiffer than stock. Your stock shocks were shot. Get back to baseline with a good alignment. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts KW V3 is a good option for a sporty street ride. KW as a company is great. I’ve been able to get through to knowledgable sales and support staff every time. JRZ for the Cayman is just great, for track. No experience with any street stuff. But from the comments In curious if the OP would enjoy any of these. Why not put on what is in hand. If that still feels crashy, then go back to a stock setup. Also do the homework on the spring stiffness. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts KW version 3

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts I would reinstall the new Ohlins with the proper top hats. You have been bashing Ohlins from day one, they sent you a completely new set, which in my mind are no different than the ones on you car. Thinking back on your post Ohlins are coming, you had your car in the Porsche's CPO program for some unspecified issue with the front end, replaceing the LCA's with GT3 arms, and other stuff. The popping noise is the key. Maybe the top shock bearing and the rubber gasket is the issue. You would know better than anyone as you have replaced the springs already. Tarett makes a top hat that would secure your shock from moving around, the issue here is that they have a monoball, which after time will start to make noise, maybe like the one you heard from the rt front. I have had absolutely no issues with my set of Ohlins, now using Tarett Cup LCA's, using 18 clicks from stiff for my daily use. Track is now at 12 clicks from stiff on some tracks to 8 stiff depending on how much Tarett swaybar is use for the tire grip and bumpiness of the track. I have run this setup in the cold driving rain with RE71R's and wide forged monoblock wheels and plenty of camber -2.6f and-2.5r with very low pressure 26 PSI f&r and turned in great times. No popping, or other noises, just solid performance from the coilovers, using 400 lbs/in f and 458 lbs/in r. Have a good speed shop in your area check all the parts before reassembling so you are not repeating the problem. Even Porsche did not get your car right under their CPO program, so how do you think we sitting in front of our computers can see exactly what the problem is?

I think you need to go reread the Ohlins thread. I was their biggest fan before this experience. They are installed exactly as Ohlins recommends, so I’m not sure what you are talking about when you say “proper top hats”. They were installed with brand new Porsche brand shock mounts, as suggested. The only hardware that was reused was the large washers either side of the shock mounts, which are in perfectly good shape. Reread the top post in this thread for a synopsis of what was originally wrong with the car. It was actually blown dampers from the start. They just caused a wandering behavior that lead to a wild goose chase with the front end. Two different mechanics have now assured me there is nothing wrong with the rest of the front end components. If you are so confident there is nothing wrong with my dampers, then buy them from me as spares for your track day efforts. Just don’t come back and complain to me when they ride like hell and ruin a track day. I can absolutely guarantee you and everyone else that there is something physically wrong with at least one of the dampers. I told Ohlins this from day one as well, But they refused to believe it which is a good portion of where my frustration with them originates, the rest comes from the fact that they repeatedly sent me incorrect parts, costing me days of time off work needlessly, and then stopped responding when it became clear they were dealing with a defect in their product. It was immediately obvious when they were installed that something was drastically wrong with them. The car went from being skittish and not confidence inspiring, to "holy hell this thing rides rough". I am not exaggerating even slightly when I say that the violence with which the suspension sometimes reacts to seemingly normal bumps is downright shocking. Several friends who have been in the car when it happened still talk about it every time they see the car. They refer to it as like a gunshot going off, and that’s not far from the truth. The fact That there is no good way to predict exactly when it will happen also leads to driving the car as if you’re on eggshells. It’s like playing Russian roulette with bumps instead of a gun. The bottom line for me with Ohlins is they need to step up and cover the alignment at minimum for me to continue with them. Their warranty is parts and labor, but so far they have refused to honor that by refusing to accept that there is an issue with my set of dampers. I’ve paid to have car realigned 4 times out of pocket due to their mistake. They need to step up and start honoring their warranty, or I can’t continue putting effort in on my side. The replacement set is a step in that direction, honestly I only asked for one replacement damper for the front right, but when they refused to answer for over a month I lost my patience and demanded my money back. The full set was their penance for trying to ignore me until I went away, and not something I demanded, but rather something my dealer demanded in order to try to make things right.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Brian C in Arizona commented about trading you for his PSS9's, Here is his quote, Originally Posted by Apex1 Ohlins suggest that with their single adjustment knob affects the rebound, and also, the compression damping to a smaller degree. This info is from the owners manual, so if you adjust the front for more compression, you will also get even more rebound. ..... Really? Sounds like it is a simple low speed circuit adjusting needle. I thought from all the hoopla and fanfare about Ohlins that they would have separate rebound and compression adjustments. So they are basically no better/ different than PSS9's as far as adjustability and tuning. I wonder what that extra $600 really gives you then. I offered to swap my like new Bilsteins for another members Ohlins set for a comparison since he was complaining about the harsh ride, too stiff spring rate, not being able to adjust the shock to his liking, etc. I wanted to be able to do a side by side comparison. He could do the same, then we could have posted our thoughts on each and how they compared. Maybe he would like to see your take offs and compare these two products.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts I remember he offered to trade me. At the time it didn't seem like a good deal at all, as I thought it would be easier to get this sorted through Ohlins. I had also been given some incorrect info on the price of the PSS9s and thought their 987 offering was price like the ones for BMWs for example (as it should be rather than a ripoff "P-car" tax) which affected my decision making in that case. In hindsight, I should have done it, but Brian would have gotten screwed in the deal. I'd be happy to sell the old set for a good price to someone who understands what they will be dealing with, which is a rebuilding project. I couldn't tell you what exactly is wrong with them, as I don't have the expertise required to disassemble them and figure it out myself. What I can tell you is that whatever is wrong drastically affects at least the front right damper, and possibly others. The rear left damper also has a wonky adjuster. It doesn't give positive feedback consistently when you turn the adjuster, with detents often absent or extremely vague. Whatever is wrong affects the ride quality so strongly that you can easily tell something is off without exceeding 15 mph. I'm not joking, the car is very noticeably off even at parking lot speeds. It feels very similar to a very stiff suspension on a high riding vehicle like a 4x4, what is often called "head shake". As I approach my garage for example, the minor undulations in the pavement that were barely noticeable before shake the car back and forth strongly enough that it is difficult to hit the homelink button to open the garage door. I should also note that the popping noises mentioned earlier are very rare, and almost always come in conjunction with changes in the suspension's behavior. If you can suggest anything even remotely feasible for how any other issue beside the dampers themselves could cause a noise like that, and such a drastic change in ride quality(it really is night and day), I'd love to hear it. Really, that's not sarcasm, I would love to figure this thing out and be done with it. The problem is that there isn't anything else that could cause this behavior. McPherson Struts just are not that complicated. It's the dampers. There is a pretty decent chance that the new set of Ohlins will correct this issue. It doesn't seem that anyone else but me has had similar issues, and I'm glad it's not a widespread problem. The issue for me is that Ohlins has been quite lacking in the customer service department, and it makes me hesitant to continue on with their product. I'm afraid I will have another issue down the road and get the same sort of treatment. I don't want to deal with this again.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts I love my KW v3s on another car, but don't recommend them for the Cayman. Rebound damping adjustment is on the top of the shock, which on the Cayman is hidden under an interior trim piece. You could fiddle with installing and adjustment port, but then again you're fiddling with interior trim pieces, which is a frustrating practice in the Cayman. I installed PSS9s and find them nicely adjustable for street and track (HPDE coaching) use.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts That is a minor concern. I am mostly a set and forget kind of guy when it comes to suspension though. Get it right, and then leave well enough alone. I do not plan to reinstall the interior pieces until I have the suspension sorted this time, so I could take a few days to get the rebound set properly before I button everything back up. I also plan to go the Velcro route with the panels that cover the rear shock mounts, so that they can be removed in the future without having to tear half of the car apart. That may be the single biggest design flaw I have ever seen in a vehicle I have owned. It would be nice if KW included a knob extender, as I wouldn't personally mind drilling an inconspicuous hole for an adjuster, but I don't see that issue as a major problem for my particular usage.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Feeshta, sorry to hear about your various issues. You've been on a rough journey since you got the car. I know how excited you were about getting the Ohlins and experiencing the "magic" esp. after your good experience on your bimmer. 1. how much time do you want to spend - is this a project or you want to have more drive time? perhaps go with a proven 987 solution like the PSS9 or continue to experiment. I simply do not have the experience, expertise or patience to fine tune such systems. I prefer to spend more time driving my car. downside is I have no control over ride height and other settings 2. how much you will get back from selling off the Ohlins since you've already invested in them - if they're a sunk cost perhaps worth another shot 3. most aftermarket suspension is going to be firmer and harsher than stock including the most basic upgrade - the Bilstein B6 strut. mine took a good 2000kms to settle down from a bouncy castle to something more livable. there were also some noises from the suspension as it was broken in. A few visits to the chiropractor in between too...

A firmer ride would have been okay. I’ve had coil overs on my last three cars, so this wasn’t my first rodeo with upgraded suspension. This also isn’t my daily driver, so I would have been fine with a bit firmer ride in exchange for better handling. I did have high expectations for the Ohlins based on my previous experience with them, as they were head and shoulders better than anything else I had ever experienced. They managed to be firm without being harsh, which is ideal in my book. I do at minimum expect that the suspension be able to deal with slightly rough surfaces though, which the current setup cannot really do at all unless it is on one of it’s rare “good days”. Honestly it is downright dangerous in its normal behavior. Also, some minor settling noises are to be expected with a new suspension, but the noises this car makes are quite different. It’s a very loud “pop” kind of noise, sometimes felt through the steering wheel as well. I’ve never heard similar sounds on any of my other cars after a suspension replacement. Or really ever. As far as how much time I am looking to spend, I’m getting to the end of my patience here. The car has been no fun to drive for Close to 2 years now. I may also be facing a deadline in a few weeks, where I have to ship the car to Germany, as I just interviewed for a job there. I would prefer to have it taken care of in the next few weeks. Concerning reselling the old ones, I would be fair. They are defective, so I would not ask much for them. That said, they should be rebuildable for a few hundred dollars, so someone could end up with a nice system at a reasonable price.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Sure seems like you would prefer stock suspension.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Don't know that I could go back to pure stock, maybe with some lowering springs. It didn't ride very well to begin with honestly. My BMW on Ohlins coilovers was worlds better in ride quality, and handled just as well. That's what I was hoping for when I went with them, but sadly it hasn't been the case.

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Fortune Auto makes a coilover for the 987. I've not found a review of that particular application, but the Subaru community seems to like them. https://fortune-auto.com/

Re: Seeking a little advice on suspension options after major issues with Ohlins R&Ts Depending on your price sensitivity the tractive setup is pretty awesome. I installed it a week ago and it's pretty amazing that I can have this reasonable of a commuting setup ( an hour each way) with springs that are twice as stiff as stock. The adaptability is impressive. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

By way of an update, the main problem with the KWs turned out to be a non-functional adjuster on one of the front shocks. KW fixed it for me for free after I contacted them out of desperation due to not being able to get a resolution with the shop that installed them, who turned out to not be an authorized KW retailer. They also set the car up too low in the rear, which contributed to high speed instability and bump steer issues. Car is much better now that these issues have been corrected.

Did you eve sell the Ohlins ?

Not yet. I have been meaning to dig them out of storage, take some pics and post them for sale but I keep forgetting. Also, I just realized there is a lot of info missing from this thread. There is another thread with a lot more info that I meant to update, but apparently grabbed the wrong one. Ohlins did eventually cave and replace my suspension completely. It was great for about 3 weeks, then I moved to Germany for work and the car was shipped here. Somehow the shipping company managed to damage all 4 dampers in shipping, probably through improper tie down. They also broke the steering rack and the control arms. Nearly $4000 damge in total. I replaced the Ohlins with KW V3s on the insurance payout, mostly because the Ohlins were not readily available locally and I needed my car back. I then had tons of issues with the KWs as well. Finally turned out that one of the adjusters simply was not doing anything, so it was impossible to set them properly. KW replaced this free of charge, and the car has been much better. So, I had a stretch there were 2 of 3 sets of coilovers came with major manufacturing defects. The problem with the Ohlins turned out to be crushed bearings, but there was no further damaage. They have been completely rebuilt with better quality bearings and oil than factory by Emerson from Engauge Engineering. I have paperwork on the rebuild if needed. Emerson is a former engineer for Ohlins who founded his own specialist company right next to the Nurbergring. They only had maybe 500 km on them in total before being rebuilt, so they are practically brand new. I had intended to put them back on the car, but decided to sell the Cayman shortly after I made that decision. $2000 would buy them, with buyer covering shipping costs. I can ship via USPS, as I work for the US Army and have an American address here in Germany. Just takes a few days longer than normal. I can also ship via any other prefered method such as DHL as I notice a Canuckistani flag by your name

Sent you a PM. Thats Correct. From the Great White North. 😀