15 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIntermittant long cranking before startup
Reported or suspected cause
non return valve built into the pump
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
interesting, i had this exact same issue on another car and it turned out to be the non return valve built into the pump that had failed (or got blocked open with debris) leading to long cranking.
Leading evidence: 'non return valve built into the pump' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'non return valve built into the pump' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check fuel pressure' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
After the hot and cold stalling issue worsened I fitted a new CPS in July last year.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed the battery on mine last week and took the baseplate out for a proper clean.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
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Suspected cause · Original poster
I was a bit disappointed really as it would have been nice to see the pressure results when the issue was happening.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
non return valve built into the pump
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
interesting, i had this exact same issue on another car and it turned out to be the non return valve built into the pump that had failed (or got blocked open with debris) leading to long cranking.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
15 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
911uk: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Drove home (40 miles) with no further issues even though we had 3 short stops at various shops.
Hi all, occaisional issue with my 99 c2 manual.
When starting sometimes it cranks over for a long time before starting.
Battery and starter are strong it just doesn't fire for 10 + seconds of cranking.
When it does start your get a few small light ignitions (not backfires or spitbacks) and then it will happily burst into life.
It spends most of its resting time nose up on a reasonably sloped drive, I did leave it of the flat roadside one night and it fired up first turn the next day but I cannot say for 100% it is related to the slope or the amount of time it has been stood.
There are no fault codes according to my cheepo reader and it has never failed to start but if I had to sum it up it's like your bleeding the fuel system before it starts.
Thanks for any pointers.
I agree , that's what it sounds like to me.
Only way to prove it is by connecting a fuel pressure gauge though ..
If your into DIY you could always pull the fuel pump and have a look , mesh filter at the base which if it has black particles in it leans towards a faulty fuel pump .
Next item would be a CPS but that is more a hot start issue than a cold one .
Lack of fault codes leads us to what cant the car see .. both of these items fit the bill .
A separate Fuel filter up to something like 2001 / 2002 i think but as far as i'm aware then on the base of the fuel pumps on both models there is a mesh filter ..
I have seen in the past small particles of black plastic in this filter .. it was the pump internals .. pump worked but obviously the pressures were not correct .
Hence these days if i'm looking at a pump i tend to look at the base and this filter .
Thanks all, I'm leaning towards the fuel pump being the culprit but I will check that earth as a matter of process.
Would it cause any other running issues? it seems to run fine to me with but there is a bit of a lumpy tickover. Cleaned the MAF with maybe only a slight improvement.
De-mort, any issues with the pump removal? there is note of a special tool and I see some generic adjustable ones on eBay.
In the past I've always managed to carefully knock them loose with a hammer and suitable drift but would rather go in prepared!
I bought one of these for my pump as I'd heard tales of them being tight to get off but it turned easily by hand so I didn't need it, it only locates by a quarter of a turn so isn't a major pain. Obviously you would need to drain the tank before swapping the pump out.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Baby-Boa-Constrictor-Strap-Wrench-Jar-Lid-Opener-Undo-Open-/231411340712
So I bought myself a tester to test the fuel pump pressure!
Book spec is
Stationary engine 3.8 bar (+/-0.2bar) I have 3.7bar with a jumpered fuel pump.
Idle 3.3bar (+/-0.2bar) I have 3.1bar.
So these seem to be within spec.
I left the guage connected and looked at it 3 days later, all residual pressure had gone and the guage was reading 0.
Turned the ignition on, the pump momentarily buzzed and the guage now read 3.1bar, cranked the engine and it fired first turn. I was a bit disappointed really as it would have been nice to see the pressure results when the issue was happening.
Taking advantage of the bank hol sunshine it was roof down and off we went.
Drove for about an hour and then stopped for an hour. On restarting the fuel pump buzzed with ignition on and started first turn. I then promptly stalled it when setting off.
It struggled but restarted after a few seconds cranking and when I dipped the clutch at the next junction (about 150 yards away) the engine died again.
On restarting it took maybe 4-5 seconds of cranking with a good helping of throttle to coax it into life. Drove home (40 miles) with no further issues even though we had 3 short stops at various shops.
Tried it again today (24 hrs later), no buzz from the pump when the igntion was turned on but started first crank when asked.
Checked again and still no error codes.
Sorry about the long post but with issues like these sometimes the devil is in the detail.
You have a potential issue with your idle control valve , it shouldn't stall when dipping the clutch basically ... they can be removed and cleaned .. for me if original then i might lean towards replacing it dependant on cost .
Clean out the throttle housing whilst there .
That's separate from the long crank to start the car though .
When a stall occurs you tend to get a bit of a dump of fuel .. it will cause a few cranks to clear and fire up .
You haven't yet experienced the long crank to start with the fuel pressure gauge connected .. until you do you need to monitor this ..
If the fault happens and you have fuel pressure then you have ruled this out .. until then we are kinda stuck .
CPS would be the next thing .. that's pretty much a replace it regardless item but it doesn't fit the faults you describe .. keep checking the fuel pressure for now is what i would do .
Thanks demort, I'll get on with this over the coming days/weeks as time allows.
Thankfully none of the issues have prevented me from using the car as I please. I always expected it to be a running project as I suppose any 21 year old car will be.
Just to put a bit of a close on this thread for posterity and for anyone suffering similar symptoms.
After the hot and cold stalling issue worsened I fitted a new CPS in July last year.
Since this time both the hot stalling and the long cranking when cold issue has ceased.
Thanks all for your input and equally thanks to a relatively cheap fix!
Excellent news its fixed .
It just goes to show that a lack of codes is pretty much fuel pump related or CPS .. even if the CPS has not failed in the usual way .. it's still suspect !
interesting, i had this exact same issue on another car and it turned out to be the non return valve built into the pump that had failed (or got blocked open with debris) leading to long cranking. Glad you found the issue!
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