GT3 vs Noble GT0 - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

What a lovely dilema you have. After a recent track session in a Noble I decided that if I was ever in the fortunate position to have £50K ish to spend I could not think of a better car to spend it on than the Noble. However after a good look at Guys Ultima if it were possible to replicate his car for the budget it would be a huge tempation. The GT3 however has to be in my eyes the only viable Porsche alternative for the budget. ( although older 964RS & 993RS must also be contenders) Its advantage must be its ability to soak up repeated track day punishment and still remain fresh as that is what it was designed to do. Of the 2 hard trackdayed Nobles Ive seen, one had to leave a recent session early with problems and the other was suffering a bit so I guess that is its downside. I would go for the Clubsport GT3 if you can find one, the single mass flywheel is more suited to your use and is quicker revving than the duel mass item, plus the CS comes with the cage already fitted etc. Price wise if you can find a RHD clubsport for £55k in good condition I think it will be the best buy. My only other thought is the promised 2003 release on the new GT3 at £75k 'ish' may bring down the earlier generation GT3's, so it may be worth waiting till next year to see if the prices do drop. >> Edited by iguana on Monday 28th October 11:04

ooo ooo ooo GT3 next year £75k what when where etc any details..... It will bridge the gap between c2 and turbo ??

I think Porsche GB are allocated approx 82 cars. Get your name down quick. New look headlights etc and extra 15bhp on previous version. DAZ

There is a privately advertised Yellow GT3 Club Sport with comfort pack on 911uk.com - it's yellow and he's asking £62k with 21k mls. Might be able to bargain him into your price range.(Jonathan Staffordshire 01283820699) I wasn't aware they did a club sport with comfort pack - i thought it was either or but hey.

Thanks for your response Iguana - pretty much sums up my thinking at the moment. An Ultima was on my shortlist too but the others probably make a more sensible, all-round package. I also considered a Gemballa GTR600 that's for sale at the moment. Like the Ultima, I'm concerned about the reliability of the Gemballa and whether or not my local Porsche dealer would be capable of sorting any running problems. Plus, the big torque in both these cars would be a bit of a handful in damp conditions. Had thought about the new 996 RS but it's a bit away and getting quite pricey. Senator, thanks for the lead but yellow cars are not my cup of tea. Just to make things difficult for myself, I'm specifically looking for a black GT3. I know of one for sale in London but it isn't a UK RHD car. Cheers anyway. >> Edited by AL001 on Monday 28th October 16:25

Page 1, GT3 Owner's Manual : "Your new 911 GT3 was not created by some computer. It was created on the race track. It is pure racing car. Based on the 911. With racing-car technology. It incorprates parts developed for use in motor racing. Tested under the toughest conditions. On the race track. On all the Grand Prix circuits, and on the Nordschleife section of the Nurburgring. Your new 911 GT3 is Porsche through and through. It brooks no compromise on the race circuit. Yet it is suitable for everyday trips to the shops." Page 6 : Motor racing "For reasons of safety, the braking system, steering, running gear, wheels and tyres should be checked after every race." Go get one !

Also - Club sport differences : Single mass flywheel - noisy at idle and easy to stall. Keeps revs higher between changes. Emergency cut-off switches, one in front of gearlever and one under bonnet. Looks cool. No side airbags. No centre console under dash. Rear rollcage, occasionally full cage depending on whether car supplied with front part, as it is illegal to fit. (nasty headache if you forget your seatbelt and launch head at front bar) Also, front cage makes ingress/egress a pain, and the car even stiffer. Driver's six-point Schroth harness, occasionally passsenger side too. Fire extinguisher mounted in passenger footwell. Fire-retardent fabric covered one piece racing seats.

get a GT3. Had mine a year now. Done a couple of track days, 7000 miles flat out abroad, (have a Slovakian girlfriend, so good excuse to visit the parents and give car a good thrashing! plus pop in to Alois and Estonia RUF on the way back!) Done about 15,000 miles so far. Not a single problem. Doesn't cost any more to run than a standard 911 either. Very strong car, totally awsome. Can't ever see myself selling it!!!!!

Much as I love the M12, it is never going to be as bulletproof as the GT3. I have heard rumours of a few engine related niggles with the Noble.

i was toying with getting an lhd one... about 45-50k???

Was up against a Noble last year at Oulton Park on a track day, overall impression was of a stunningly fast car in a straight line that I could comfortably outbrake and outcorner in every bend, resulting in much frustration on my part. Looked pretty though. As for GT3, the major problems have been in the brakes department and it has a reputation for consuming discs. May I suggest that if you want a lap after lap after lap car look no further than the 964RS or the 993RS? OK, the chassis is not as sophisticated as the GT3, but if you can afford £70k on a car, logic may prevent you from thinking that a £30k car can never be as good. However the cheapest way to severely embarrass a GT3 is to put Motec and sticky track tyres onto the 964RS, and if you want more then a reassuringly expensive suspension upgrade will have it driving around the outside of the GT3 around bends (could you ever call an RS a Q car?). I know that there is more to consider than just performance, But all I am saying is that if you are open minded there are more options than just a choice of two new models.

nick644 - Whats you GT3 like to drive?, I have a 996 (2002) targa and would love to have a 996tt but the cost jump is very high. I thought that a GT3 would bridge the gap. (im used to hard rided from Caterhams) What the difference between a GT3 and Turbo for driving and fun etc. It would be for road use and 4-6 track days a year. why go for a 996tt or a GT3 ?? Your insights would be appreciated so i know if I have to sell my other kidney and eye.

GT3 Brakes The front brakes on the GT3 have a limited amount of air cooling therefore inexperienced drivers who brake long and early will put so much heat into the discs that they will complain. Brake performance is unaffected but drivers confidence is. Porsche racing parts divison have an off the shelf solution. This is in the form of improved ducting. Allied to Pagid Blue pads and Castrol response fluid the problem can be resolved. Once the driver gets used to the car and brakes so much later this also helps reuce the heat sink problem. Not many cars outperfom a well driven GT3 on track. Single seaters, open sports cars (like radicals)and seriously modified barely road legal cars provide the only true competition. As an alternative the 964 RS remains extremely good value as a track car but not many would want to drive it on the road on a regular basis. Clubsport - only 28 rhd drive cars in the UK according to Porsche at Reading. This may have been reduced as we hear that 1 or 2 of these may have been written off. For a guide on second hand values look at Porsches used car section on their web site. GJB

GJB, I have heard you comments many times before and on the face of it would agree. This is the standard response that Porsche have put out to keep everyone quitet. BUT I have one customer who got a refund in full from his main dealer because the GT3 brakes were "unfit for their intended purpose"; he has raced cars and won championships and is no dummy behind the wheel, so when the car failed to do more than 5 laps ok Knockhill before the brakes warped and shook the car to pieces, the Dealer Principal had little choice. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but are we all faced with fixing a fault on a £75,000 car just so that you can drive it as it was intended? That's my point. Either way, you cannot consider the Noble an everyday car but I generally agree, given a choice of new only everyday and track use car, the GT3 is the b*****ks and would have my money; but if I HAD £75,000 I would buy a 964RS CS and a 993RS for everyday.

My Noble makes a very good everyday car. GT3's look like great cars but i can't see how they would live with an M12 on a track bearing in mind how easily we dispatched of a couple of standard carrera's around Silverstone ? Are GT3's that much quicker ? >> Edited by stuh on Thursday 31st October 18:32

Hi Superlight Well, I use my GT3 pretty well every day. Apart from the apalling ground clearance, which can be a serious pain at times, multi storey car parks and hotel car park ramps are a particular problem, the car is almost perfect. The ride in general is pretty smooth. I've had the front end soften up a little which gives it better handling on bumpy roads. It can shake a few fillings out of your head when it hits pot holes, but feels very smooth on motorways. The engine is just a peach, extremely smooth right up to 8,000 revs. As long as you can put up with the ground clearance, which you get use to......slowing down to 2mph over speed bumps and watching out for heavy dips in the road, etc, can't recommend it highly enough. Driven several Turbos, (including a 540bhp RUF one). Very quick in a straight line, much more so than a GT3, but feels a bit soggy, no feeling from the steering wheel, very soft brake pedal. I felt the car was driving me, especially when the turbos spool up, clinging on to the steering wheel with my finger tips. Doesn't give you the feeling you want to take it by the scruff of it's neck and drive it at ten tenths, like you want to do with the GT3 everytime you drive it. Still, the turbo is a superb car and I'm sure I would also be very happy with it as a daily proposition, it's just different. Depends what you want really.

nick644 how many miles have you done in it and how expensive relative to a carrera 2 have you found it?

done 15,000 miles Haven't found it any more expensive than a carrera, though the front spoiler lip will need replacing soon due to ground clearance problems, (£80), mind you I have had the front end changed by RUF, with turbo look lights/spoiler so it now has the thin black spoiler lip to scrape rather the painted spoiler of the original car. >> Edited by nick644 on Thursday 31st October 21:43

thankyou for the reply. The dilemma is now whether to go for a Noble at 55k which is effectively what they are now priced at or try and find a cheapish GT3. Tough dilemma anybody with any thoughts keep them coming

I once made the terrible mistake of buying a new TVR Tuscan. I think that the Noble may turn out to have similar quality control problems and will definitely not have been developed and engineered as thoroughly as a Porsche. I know which car i'd prefer to be in if I had a crash.... and there is nothing more annoying than loads of niggling problems, (especially when you've just spent 55K). Still think the Noble looks a bit like a kit car. Mind you, if the Noble where around 25-30K, I might be tempted to take a chance. It sounds like a lot of fun to drive

The noble is spoiled by mondeo rear lights and a max power spoiler - two in fact. Looks ok from the front, but overall it screams kit car. The GT3 is on another planet.

As regards having a crash - does the GT3 have a built in roll cage like the M12 ? As far as i'm aware only one Noble of the 100 produced has had an engine problem and Noble swapped that out at no charge whilst they investigate with Ford power products. Anyone tried getting that from AFN for instance ? All my dealing with my car have been first rate. Even had Lee Noble ring me personally about a query with the front suspension Also i would expect the GT3 running costs must be an order of magnitude higher, knowing what Porsche servicing normally costs. The only concern with the Noble is with residual values. Hopefully the scarcity of the car will help. I agree that the lights aren't great but the new cars have had them restyled. If you don't like the spoiler the new GTC doesn't have it. The GT3 really isn't in the M12 league performance wise (witness 360bhp/tonne versus what 250bhp/tonne in the GT3?) For a more track fun you might want to wait fot the new M12 3T which will have 400bhp, 6 speed sequential box, dry sump and carbon fibre body to reduce wait still further..........should be an interesting drive !

Hopefully they'll remove the sculpted rear spoiler while they're about it. What's wrong with lovely clean lines a la tvr / porsche / 355 / db7. Lumpy angles and boltons just look deeply naff.

As regards having a crash - does the GT3 have a built in roll cage like the M12 ? >Some do have FIA approved cage and airbags, front & side (clubsport front only) As far as i'm aware only one Noble of the 100 produced has had an engine problem and Noble swapped that out at no charge whilst they investigate with Ford power products. Anyone tried getting that from AFN for instance ? >this is also porsche's response to engine failure under warranty Also i would expect the GT3 running costs must be an order of magnitude higher, knowing what Porsche servicing normally costs. >Fixed price servicing for 996 at OPC's = for minor service and about -300 for major (6 & 24K miles) will also pick up car on trailer or supply loan golf GTi. >> Edited by hoganscrogan on Friday 1st November 11:40

I think it's a bit unfair to put it up against a 355 for styling. Not many cars would fare well there ! TVR and Porsche are also much bigger volume. For me the cars looks good but this is secondary to the driving experience for me and in my opinion this is second to none U pays your money.................

I am a real fan of the Noble (must get that ride with Joust sometime!), but for me it falls between two cars... the GT3 and an Ultima. Which is no bad thing really: For production car build, design, refinement and ease of ownership - buy the GT3 For kit car build, but ultimate performance - buy an Ultima For a mix of the two, get a Noble M12 Is that a fair summary of the situation? I'd go for the Ultima, but only because I'd want to throw it together myself. I hope Noble sell loads of M12s because I'd love one if I don't do the Ultima thing (garage required!).

Sounds about right to me. Ultima's look like fun, just need someone to give me a ride one day. I've never seen an Ultima in BedsBucks. Anyone want a screaming passenger

You'd be a screaming passenger with Dom in the RS, no need to find an Ultima!!

Bluesatin is in Bucks and has an Ultima with an alleged 525bhp. I have been out with him in it, and it is quite something assuming traction is possible! >> Edited by domster on Friday 1st November 14:55

Looking for a Black GT3 RHD, I know where one is for sale in the Essex area. I don't know how much he wants for it, but if your serious drop me a line.

Just had a close look at a Noble GTO in my local bodyshop. Compared to a GT3? I know what I'd rather have an accident in!!

Anyone driven both extensively? Thinking of buying one or the other for road and track use and having difficulty deciding. Is there much difference between the Club Sport and Comfort GT3. I'm leaning towards the Club Sport as it will be doing quite a lot of trackdays but they don't seem as commonplace. Does the single mass flywheel of the Club make much difference? What's the going rate for a RHD GT3 privately? Circa £55k? Thanks.