Cayman GT4RS - Oil consumption - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Just interested if other 4RS owners have needed to top up their oil levels. I've done 3400 miles now and the car has flagged up low oil level on three occasions. I put in another 0.5 lt oil yesterday, a total so far of 1.5lt since delivery. I've had a variety of GT cars now and I don't recall the consumption being quite so much.

scrounger73 said: Lots of this on Rennlist from 4RS and GT3 owners. Looks like the GT3 engines drink like Oliver Reed at a beer festival. In honesty the 4.0 is the same. Mine asked for a 0.5l top up after 700 miles, then last time I checked at around 2k miles the level was still near the top

Both the 992 GT3 and the 4RS seem to get through alot of oil! Approx 0.8l per 800-1000 miles or so

In 23 k miles , track days etc , Still have not put any oil in my .2 GT3RS , was good in the running in though .

Shouldnt be burning that much oil so Hope this isn't the first sign of more porsche engine issues

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll keep an eye on it - certainly didn't need to top my 991.2 3RS WP in 15k miles of ownership. I thought the 4RS was the same engine? Perhaps I just have a thirsty one!

A different engine, but in my GT4 which has done 31,000 miles I generally add round 0.5l to maintain a 3/4 level between oil and filter changes at 3500 mile including four or five track day intervals ? It was carefully run-in and is over-maintained, but oil is cheap !

I had an amber oil warning light at 250 miles! Added about 0.4l and that took me to just over half full. Now at 1500 miles and think I’m probably just under half full. Followed run in to the 932 miles recommendation.

Thought I’d give an update to this thread. I’m over 7000miles now and l’ve added nearly 4 litres of oil in that distance. Never had any sign of blue smoke and I ran it in just as carefully as previous GT cars which to be honest haven’t really needed much other than the odd top up, if that. Strange as it’s been used as intended on track and trips abroad just like before. I mentioned it to my PC yesterday just as a precaution. Any others got a thirsty 4RS out there?

I did just under 4000miles in mine. Running in plus 3 track days. It was delivered at half full! Tight arse Porsche. I put 0.4L in to bring it up to the max then it never took another drop of oil. It was about 2 bars below the max level when i sold it. Make of that what you will but there is obviously some variation.

Lots of this on Rennlist from 4RS and GT3 owners. Looks like the GT3 engines drink like Oliver Reed at a beer festival. In honesty the 4.0 in the Cayster is the same. Edited by scrounger73 on Thursday 26th October 16:11

The speculation around these engines is the oil consumption is due to the engine / particulate filters running significantly hotter to help with the emissions. This is why owners are seeing higher oil use even after the run-in period.

SV_WDC said: The speculation around these engines is the oil consumption is due to the engine / particulate filters running significantly hotter to help with the emissions. This is why owners are seeing higher oil use even after the run-in period. The oil evaporates?

I got through around 4-5l in 5.5k miles. It did have a problem with the throttle body, which was replaced at 5k miles, so maybe that was causing excess consumption?!

I've had a couple of 4.0 GT3s that use a bit of oil and always smoke on initial start up and one that didn't using any oil whatsoever between services. As ever running in properly appears to minimise oil consumprion imo. Cue those who claim it makes no difference whatsoever lol. OPs oil consumption does seem rather excessive. Edited by av185 on Sunday 29th October 09:03

SpookRS said: Thought I’d give an update to this thread. I’m over 7000miles now and l’ve added nearly 4 litres of oil in that distance. Never had any sign of blue smoke and I ran it in just as carefully as previous GT cars which to be honest haven’t really needed much other than the odd top up, if that. Strange as it’s been used as intended on track and trips abroad just like before. I mentioned it to my PC yesterday just as a precaution. Any others got a thirsty 4RS out there? Run engines in hard. I'd put money on the excess oil consumption being linked to gentle running in. Particularly in the first few miles.

ChocolateFrog said: Run engines in hard. I'd put money on the excess oil consumption being linked to gentle running in. Particularly in the first few miles. Yep. My race engine builder always used to tell me to just race straight away as normal. Never had any oil consumption problem. It was more effort bringing in a new set of Avon slicks!

What were the tell tell signs for all the gt4 engine failures? Edited by Kerniki on Sunday 29th October 10:05

Wasn't really any 4.0 engine failures on the 718. Oil pumps and con rods which grenade the engines yes but no engine failures per se.

Yep seem to recollect it was a precautionary measure by Porsche to replace several batches of pre May? 2020 4.0 engines.

Believe cars with the suspected issue were given a straight replacement engine from the factory as this was deemed more economical than the man hours involved with dismantling, fixing & reassembling.

I thought there were some bore scoring issues that lead to engine replacements? With oil consumption being one of the main symptoms, my lack of Porsche obviously has me incorrect. I would never consider that kind of oil consumption right or acceptable really, what a pain, something from 20 years ago maybe, I have a few classics that do but a 2023 car?

SV_WDC said: Believe cars with the suspected issue were given a straight replacement engine from the factory as this was deemed more economical than the man hours involved with dismantling, fixing & reassembling. Not in the UK - stripping it down at the OPC and fitting the replacement con rod was exactly what they proposed to do with mine, which was why I politely asked for my deposit back - didn’t feel like a new car after it had been through that, but perhaps just being over sensitive.

SV_WDC said: The speculation around these engines is the oil consumption is due to the engine / particulate filters running significantly hotter to help with the emissions. This is why owners are seeing higher oil use even after the run-in period. My Cayman GTS 4.0 is now to all intents and purposes run in. 1200 miles, varying load from day 1, but full throttle use sparingly over first 500 miles, and maximum revs used built up gradually from 4000. Runs hot on oil temperature (typically 112 - 114 degrees C once fully warmed through), dropping slightly in sports mode. Water temperature actually colder than my 981 GT4. Runs at 90 degrees C all the time. The old 981 GT4 runs with water at 102-103, oil similar or higher, unless the sport button is pressed. With sport button pressed both drop to 90 degrees. Despite the higher oil temperature, the GTS 4.0 has not yet shown the slightest drop in oil level through the running in period. I bought the 981 GT4 used, and it was using a bit of oil when I got it (300-500 ml per 1000 miles maybe). I put it back through my usual running-in routine, and oil consumption is now less than 100 ml per 1000 miles, including occasional track day use. I’m not au fair with piston, ring and cylinder block differences between the GT4 RS and 982 GT4/GTS 4.0. However I’d have to hazard that if GT4 RS’s do habitually use oil, it cannot just be down to internal components’ running temperatures. Probably a bit of a first world problem. A mate was telling me a few weeks ago that he’s on his 5th set of tyres in around 10,000 miles in his GT4 RS. He does a lot of hard miles on track days, but I’m hoping he might have been exaggerating a bit… Liam

LiamH66 said: My Cayman GTS 4.0 is now to all intents and purposes run in. 1200 miles, varying load from day 1, but full throttle use sparingly over first 500 miles, and maximum revs used built up gradually from 4000. Runs hot on oil temperature (typically 112 - 114 degrees C once fully warmed through), dropping slightly in sports mode. Water temperature actually colder than my 981 GT4. Runs at 90 degrees C all the time. The old 981 GT4 runs with water at 102-103, oil similar or higher, unless the sport button is pressed. With sport button pressed both drop to 90 degrees. Despite the higher oil temperature, the GTS 4.0 has not yet shown the slightest drop in oil level through the running in period. I bought the 981 GT4 used, and it was using a bit of oil when I got it (300-500 ml per 1000 miles maybe). I put it back through my usual running-in routine, and oil consumption is now less than 100 ml per 1000 miles, including occasional track day use. I’m not au fair with piston, ring and cylinder block differences between the GT4 RS and 982 GT4/GTS 4.0. However I’d have to hazard that if GT4 RS’s do habitually use oil, it cannot just be down to internal components’ running temperatures. Probably a bit of a first world problem. A mate was telling me a few weeks ago that he’s on his 5th set of tyres in around 10,000 miles in his GT4 RS. He does a lot of hard miles on track days, but I’m hoping he might have been exaggerating a bit… Liam What’s your usual run in routine then ?

bosshog said: What’s your usual run in routine then ? I feel like I’ve done this to death on PH over the last 5/6 years and 3 new Caymans. For road cars, and with a bit of following Porsche manual: First 500 miles: Varying load, avoiding full throttle (but getting engine under good load regularly), 4000 rpm max. 500 - 1000 miles: Increase maximum revs by 500 rpm for every 100 miles completed, gradually increase maximum load, using full throttle regularly from around 800 miles. 1000 - 1800 miles: normal use, but with care not to use too many revs until water is up to temperature, and oil reasonably warm. (This is my nod to the extremely long running in period recommended in the Porsche manual, which seems like overkill to me.) For the whole of this period I also avoid excessive idling (car always driven gently to warm up), and running below 2000 rpm when moving, especially uphill. It’s never ideal as an “on the road” exercise, and in the best of all worlds I’d be running the engines in on an engine dyno, where I’d have some instrumentation to help me understand whether everything’s bedding in as it should. Early in my career I afforded that luxury to a lot of other people’s (mainly race/rally car) engines. It’s a much better way, but cost prohibitive, and didn’t always go to plan. Liam

I think the reason for the asking for the detail, was because you said you took your 981 GT4… which was already used? And essentially re-ran the break in using your method so now it consumes less than 100ml per 1000 miles. What was the mileage on the GT4 when you acquired it?

Not a GT4RS but my 992 GT3 drinks oil Yet I've got a 3yr old 718 GT4 not RS owned from new and I've never had to top the oil up outside of its service

There are many theories on running in, but if run in as badly as possible how much difference might that make to the oil consumption ?? These are standard cars built to modern tolerances ... not race cars built with the aim of maximum power asap and short hour rebuilds ... ?? I once had to "finish" running-in a new build race engine in qualifying ... needless to say it was no hardship to qualify last.

TDT said: I think the reason for the asking for the detail, was because you said you took your 981 GT4… which was already used? And essentially re-ran the break in using your method so now it consumes less than 100ml per 1000 miles. What was the mileage on the GT4 when you acquired it? I’d guessed that, and re-reading my response it comes across a lot shirtier than I intended it to. Wasn’t meant to be. GT4 had 7600 miles on it when I bought it, but probably closer to 10,000 when I decided to spend 1000 miles going through a late running in sequence. I’ll never know if it helped reduce the oil consumption. It may well have been that it was going to sort itself out anyway. The other thing that changed was that when I first got the car, on very light acceleration at motorway speeds in top gear, I could just hear the very light “pinking” of low load detonation. That disappeared completely at the same time as the oil consumption sorted itself out. It now has the dreaded inertia reel seat belt guide rattle they sometimes get behind my right ear. Other than that is a much nicer car at 18,000 miles than it was when I bought it. Liam

ChrisW. said: There are many theories on running in, but if run in as badly as possible how much difference might that make to the oil consumption ?? <snip> You might be surprised. I’ve come across 2 in road cars that seemed nigh on disastrous. One was a mate’s MG Maestro. He rebuilt the engine where we both worked back then, and for whatever reason ran it in as gently as he could on really good synthetic oil. I’ve got a feeling he might have bored and honed it himself too, when his main expertise at the time was in grinding cranks. By the time he’d put 2000 miles on it he went everywhere pursued by huge clouds of blue smoke. I sorted it for him in a couple of hours on the rolling road - had some special techniques and trade secrets for rings that were stubborn about bedding in, and it was fine after that. The other one was a really sad story. TR7 V8 owner turned up with a “legal aid” case against another engine builder, saying that they had made a poor job of an engine rebuild because it was smoking and using so much oil just a few thousand miles after a rebuild. We popped the engine out and stripped it, and the rebuild had been spot on in every way. The only thing wrong with it was that the bores were so badly oil-glazed that the piston rings stood no chance of sealing against them. Our diagnosis was that the engine had far too little load while running in, and the rings had never seen sufficient cylinder pressure to seat onto the bores fully. Turned out to be quite an expensive way of making an unnecessary complaint. I also saw a fair number of catastrophic running in issues with race engines. Glazed bearings, cracked blocks and heads, cam seizures, even had one Rover that managed to seize all 8 gudgeon pins into the pistons. It was no fun to disassemble, but required no new parts to get it back together and running perfectly. Just a few hours hand scraping the bearing surfaces in the pistons. Doubt anyone could make a Porsche road car engine do any of the above, no matter how badly they ran it in. Liam

At 26 k miles , I still have not added any oil to my 991.2RS , Just changed oil at recommended service intervals . So no consumption at all ....

High oil usage in a model of (performance) car has tended to point to longer term issues if it's really a common thing - or that's usually been my impression anyway and I'm not necessarily sure it's backed up with actual numbers. People are kind of the same so whether or not higher oil usage might be from running in, that should broadly be balanced out and if one model is burning (a lot) more oil vs another......it probably isn't the way it was run in that is the difference.

Thanks Liam, Very interesting first hand experience. I had a VW Lupo 1.7 diesel with 80,000 miles on the clock that very briefly kept showing an oil pressure warning light. It went into VW for an oil service with a note to check the warning. My son and future daughter-in-law borrowed the car to return to university and mentioned that the oil warning light kept blinking. I suggested that the car had been checked, was on fresh oil and to keep going at sensible speed. The engine seized and was rebuilt by a VW specialist following which it then used a litre of oil every 1000 miles where previously it had used almost none. Lesson ? I still don't know. My GT4 was run in similar to your method but in the early miles with light throttle below 4000 rpm and occasional forays under heavier throttle to an extra 1000 rpm or so followed by a cooling down period at very low load, and never laboured. I considered it fully run-in at 1500 miles at it did its first Oulton Park trackday at either 1500 or 2000 miles, I can't remember which. A first oil and filter change including gearbox oil was at 2500 miles, first PCCB pads around 5000 miles ... and I'm currently on 34000+ miles and rarely add more than 500ml of oil between oil changes which I do at around 4000 miles ... ish. The car is worked hard but very very rarely abused ... and it's a credit to Porsche that it still runs "better" than new. Of course it's been modified to deal better with trackday loads but even so, it's a road car.

ChrisW. said: Thanks Liam, Very interesting first hand experience. I had a VW Lupo 1.7 diesel with 80,000 miles on the clock that very briefly kept showing an oil pressure warning light. It went into VW for an oil service with a note to check the warning. My son and future daughter-in-law borrowed the car to return to university and mentioned that the oil warning light kept blinking. I suggested that the car had been checked, was on fresh oil and to keep going at sensible speed. The engine seized and was rebuilt by a VW specialist following which it then used a litre of oil every 1000 miles where previously it had used almost none. Lesson ? I still don't know. My GT4 was run in similar to your method but in the early miles with light throttle below 4000 rpm and occasional forays under heavier throttle to an extra 1000 rpm or so followed by a cooling down period at very low load, and never laboured. I considered it fully run-in at 1500 miles at it did its first Oulton Park trackday at either 1500 or 2000 miles, I can't remember which. A first oil and filter change including gearbox oil was at 2500 miles, first PCCB pads around 5000 miles ... and I'm currently on 34000+ miles and rarely add more than 500ml of oil between oil changes which I do at around 4000 miles ... ish. The car is worked hard but very very rarely abused ... and it's a credit to Porsche that it still runs "better" than new. Of course it's been modified to deal better with trackday loads but even so, it's a road car. had my VW 1.7 SDI until i sold it at 175k , never used a drop of oil.. never even topped it up.. amazing car

ChrisW. said: Thanks Liam, Very interesting first hand experience. <snip> The engine seized and was rebuilt by a VW specialist following which it then used a litre of oil every 1000 miles where previously it had used almost none. Lesson ? I still don't know. My GT4 was run in similar to your method <snip> A first oil and filter change including gearbox oil was at 2500 miles, first PCCB pads around 5000 miles ... and I'm currently on 34000+ miles and rarely add more than 500ml of oil between oil changes which I do at around 4000 miles ... ish. The car is worked hard but very very rarely abused ... and it's a credit to Porsche that it still runs "better" than new. Of course it's been modified to deal better with trackday loads but even so, it's a road car. Thanks for saying Chris - I often worry that I bore quite a few people with ancient race and performance car “war stories.” Good to hear your GT4 is behaving well for being worked hard and not abused, at about double the mileage on my one, but… Pads at 5000 miles? I changed “steel” discs and pads on my one at about 14,000 miles, but I’ve kept the old discs and had the lips machined off them. They aren’t even half way to minimum thickness yet, but the pads weren’t “right” (I think never run in… ). I wanted to know what the car felt like with all new discs and pads. I’ll be OK for brake discs for a good few years now! Apologies for the drift off topic all. Liam

My PCCB pads were replaced at half worn after a few track days ... the pads had suffered heat damage and were badly cracked ... I replaced the discs with Surface Transform which run much cooler than PCCB's and I now get three times the number of track days out of each set of pads. Back on topic, I was looking at a GT4RS today with under 900 miles on it at an OPC. I was rather surprised to see new tyres had been fitted to the rear, the original tyres on the front ... this could be seen from the mounting pads for the original balancing weights not having been cleaned off the inside of the rear wheels. Could this be a cause of high oil consumption ?

ChrisW. said: Back on topic, I was looking at a GT4RS today with under 900 miles on it at an OPC. Seems like you're getting tempted Chris?

Good choice of GT4RS across OPCs atm with 16 cars available all WP, 15 CS including 4 with ceramics and 2 with mag wheels. The black CS WP with mags at JZM has sold. Seriously considering going non WP.

av185 said: Good choice of GT4RS across OPCs atm with 16 cars available all WP, 15 CS including 4 with ceramics and 2 with mag wheels. The black CS WP with mags at JZM has sold. Seriously considering going non WP. Nice one - new build slot?

gt4rs.wp said: av185 said: Good choice of GT4RS across OPCs atm with 16 cars available all WP, 15 CS including 4 with ceramics and 2 with mag wheels. The black CS WP with mags at JZM has sold. Seriously considering going non WP. Nice one - new build slot? Penultimate OPC car next year. The more I look at what little you get for the extra c£10k the more I prefer the purer non WP look. Never liked black bonnets titanium coloured exhaust tips and swathes of alcantara especially on dashboards not to mention PORSCHE graphics on the rear window tbh!

TDT said: ChrisW. said: Back on topic, I was looking at a GT4RS today with under 900 miles on it at an OPC. Seems like you're getting tempted Chris? I said I wouldn't pay more than list and there wasn't a glimmer of interest. In any event, I also see no use for the ubiquitous WP ....

av185 said: The black CS WP with mags at JZM has sold. I had been heavily considering that car but loath to pay that much over list really, especially as they will still be in production next year. As it is, I know who has bought it, so will see what happens in the future.

TDT said: av185 said: The black CS WP with mags at JZM has sold. I had been heavily considering that car but loath to pay that much over list really, especially as they will still be in production next year. As it is, I know who has bought it, so will see what happens in the future. Great spec car T. Only current comparable with mags (black) and PCCBs but no leds is the 2 owner Hull OPC March 23 1k mile car at £199900 (current list £159k). Looks expensive at that tbh. Black looks good....considered it myself but unsure on the flat black its a pain to keep looking good and shows marks so easily alot more than metallic black. Be interesting to see how these hold value v the 992 GT3 the limited numbers and last ultimate pure ICE Cayman should help. Overall fun car especially for fast road use v the 992 GT3 I reckon.

Redline had a yellow one at £20k over list ... but WP with mag wheels ...

Yep, that was well priced. No wonder it got snapped up sharpish.

Very interesting GT4 RS to 991.1 GT3 RS video:

They have come off a lot in the UK, and then some have been put back up. Plenty of approved used available. Varying spec… still a lot of money IMO considering they will still be built for 2024. I watched the video, not surprised to see that it didn't last very long with him - and really highlights some of the practical limits of the design choices.

Luke's comment about the personal, aesthetic choice between induction or exhaust was interesting. He says he normally keeps cars longer...

Last place to use a GT4RS would be a long motorway trip.......the back roads should be made compulsory. Interesting JZM have the hammered 22 22plate ex Press 15k mile RY GT4RS CS up at £159k.

Sorry its Ashgood

And interesting to hear that GT4RS prices in Switzerland have fallen a lot "in the last few weeks". Plenty for sale also on Mobil.de ... What next in the UK ??? Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 21st November 13:14

And EVO mag still have the new cost of a GT4RS at £108,370 ....

TDT said: Yep, that was well priced. No wonder it got snapped up sharpish. The yellow Redline car is back with them ...

ChrisW. said: TDT said: Yep, that was well priced. No wonder it got snapped up sharpish. The yellow Redline car is back with them ... Wonder what happened? Maybe they realised… this car belongs to ChrisW?!

My ideal spec would be: PRWGMCN1 £131,275.00 .... as a starting point and I'd like coilovers in the original build (with a factory exchange cost). I'd then think about ST's ... at the cost of the warranty ? This is the problem of the "overs" specs ....

ChrisW. said: My ideal spec would be: PRWGMCN1 £131,275.00 .... as a starting point and I'd like coilovers in the original build (with a factory exchange cost). I'd then think about ST's ... at the cost of the warranty ? This is the problem of the "overs" specs .... Change from your signature Yellow? ST won’t be an issue for warranty. It would just be noted as ‘non-genuine’ and as you’d have retained OEM steel rotors and pads they can be restored easily.

Yellow was the launch colour of the 981 ... my CR was Peridot Green ... blue is my favourite colour (had a wonderful 964RS N/GT in Maritime) ... Porsche just don't make them like this any more ... The car was tuned to 335bhp with 320 ft lbs ... on Wayne Schofields rolling road ! Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 21st December 17:43