The IMS discussion thread (Read this first!)

Use the search feature before you ask a question, There is a ton of information to be found! If you do not find what you are looking for, by all means post your question! SEARCH -https://rennlist.com/forums/search.php This thread is for the discussion of IMS related questions and issues, new threads on this topic may be merged here. Enjoy!

RMS and IMS what is it? Lets start with the easier one RMS RMS= Rear Main Seal. This is a seal that seals the crank. It is known to leak oil. It is located on the rear of the engine (but towards the front of the car, the front of our engines face the rear of the car. So when you open the rear hatch, you are looking at the front of the engine). To get to the seal you must drop the tranny, flywheel, clutch (if not a TIP) to expose the seal. Most times the seal is $20 bucks but takes anywhere from 5-10 hours to replace pending the technicians skills. Why does it leak? We have two issues that I know of. First and easiest is the original seals were not that great. They were too hard and would actually wear a low spot in the crank allowing oil to pass between the seal and crank. The new seal has quite a bit of changes and has a much softer, almost cloth-like material where it contacts the crank. You can see the difference. Possible issue #2 is the crank actually being off center. Yes… I know.. WHAT? Yep… Some how some engines wore in and the crank is actually off center. This will cause a leak and if you just put in a new seal it too will leak. Let alone the pre-mature engine failure you may get from the additional wear from vibration. Porsche basically replaced any engines with this issue if they were under warranty. This issue can be fixed by an after market company. To test of the off center crank isn’t hard, it just requires a dial caliper and the know how to use it. I do not know the exact tolerance of wobble. Special Tools to replace RMS. No special tool are really needed that cannot be home made from common parts found a Lowes. If you do a search on the forum you will find some home made tools to complete the job. Next is the biggie. IMS… stands for Inter Mediate Shaft. This is a shaft that is located below the crank. It is gear driven off the crank, the IMS then in turn drives the chains that drive the cams that open and close the valves. The part that fails is not the shaft but a bearing on the rear end of the shaft. In the simplest terms the valve train then jumps time and the pistons collide with the valves, many times breaking the piston, then breaking the cylinder/block. Basically when this happen the engine is pretty much done. What are the warnings signs? You ready for this.. VERY FEW and they are not obvious. I have been told that when it goes, it goes fast. A common explanation is “it sounded like marbles rolling around in a tin coffee can right before it quit” This noise is the shaft bouncing around after the bearing has failed. You have seconds to shut the engine down and hopefully save it. Another clue to pending failure is an oil leak. But the bad thing is the leak is at the exact same location as a RMS leak because the IMS is located right below the RMS… But many times there is a difference. An IMS leak GENERALLY will spew black, burnt oil while an RMS leak will spew caramel color oil. So what can be done? The RMS is easy. Install the new seal. The IMS is a crapshoot… Many have chosen to install a ceramic bearing; this bearing can be installed with out tearing down the engine. It requires a special bearing puller. I did mine myself on my garage floor. I think it took me 10-12 hours. What is Porsche doing? Nothing…they are following the law and if you car is still under warranty, you get a new engine.. No hassle, no crying. They fix it. If you are out of warranty… Don’t bother. They will not do much to help you. You can threaten to sue. You can sue… you can cry, you can beg… You will get nowhere. NO WHERE.. Trust me on this one… Don’t even frustraight yourself. But if you are under warranty. They will not give you any hassle at all… The new engines are upgraded. I am not sure what the upgrade is… But they are different.

Whoever ends up making this part (if it's not me) can pay me royalties of the 10's of parts to be sold. IMS Bearing failures appear to me to be due to engine oil compromising the sealed bearing and forcing the thicker viscosity lube out (somewhere). The IMS bearing 'rides' in a tube, which for some reason the other end is near the RMS. The RMS leaks, fills the tube with oil, pushes out the lube, nukes the bearing. Oil doesn't need to be in that tube, actually it's better (saves your *** really) if there isn't oil in the tube to get to the bearing. Why hasn't anyone made a simple friggin 'oil plug'! Piece of rubber with a whol through it, a bolt, a nut 2 washers and a foot long extension to tighten the bolt/nut., Snug enough to block or mostly limit the amount of oil getting into the tube. Every IMS bearing story I have read so far has oil in the tube. Stop the oil and the bearing might just last the entire engine life (which oddly can be limited by this bearing failing so it's all still true ) If I get a 996 or have to do a IMS replacement on any pcar, this is on my list of todo's. Does this already exist?

what kind of oil are you using? ....IBTL...

thermal expansion of the trapped air causes air to escape, when the parts cool there is low pressure in the tube, the low pressure is equalized by air and oil being sucked into the tube each cycle there is more oil and less air the oil in the tube is contaminated and can, over time become toxic enough to erode, etch the ***** on the bearing - the softend ***** wear faster, and become rough. the rough ***** catch on the ball cage and begine to distort the holes that hold the ***** in place - the holes become large enough for the ***** to bounce around and bend the cage, the cage slips, the ***** change location and the bearing comes apart - the bolt cannot support the rotational out of balance and shears off - the chains jump and - whip around, vale timing stops and the pistons collide - failed parts cause case damage and oil is dumped out of the damaged area... I am theorizing of course - but I have detailed photos of bearing in various stages of degradation and under magnification I would place money on chemical etching being the initial cause of surface breakdown yes - a 1 mm hole drilled in the tube may prevent all of this yes - replacing the bearing is a good idea yes - they can fail - and failure is a biatch yes - many last a LONG time why would running them "like you stole it" help? my theory is that it is a means of getting the car over the normal operating temp and thus pushing some of the old contaminated oil out of the tube...and sucking in some new oil - at some point if temps never exceed a "normal" the oil in the tube never comes out and could be in there for 5-10 years no matter how often you change oil. You have to get the motor hotter and cause the old oil to then exit thought hydraulic pressure and re-create the vacuum that cause the oil to be sucked in there in the first place...this will also allow "fresh" oil to be sucked passed (through) the bearing and give it a tiny bit of lube internally again these are thoughts I have - and my personal research was supportive of this crack induced dream I hated that this thread was made with the statement above and never allowed to be argued, I am glad it is open for discussion - I will not be discussing it much, I prefer to just replace the damn thing and get over it, live with it and run the "risk" - or sell the car I sold mine - but not because of this....it was time for me...... I miss it sometimes, but I would NOT trade my current ride for a 996 unless it had 3 letters after the 996 --- something like GT(x) have fun with this, hope to see some of you around at PCA or other events in the great northwest Ed

My thought being if the factory put in a sealed bearing, and all but the $1500+ LN retrofit also use sealed bearings why allow oil in the first place. The drilling of the hole is actually a great idea. (Me theorizing as well) If one could drill the hole say 3 inches past the IMSB, this would allow about 2 of inches of 'workspace' to put in a plug. Any and all oil that found it's way into the tube would fall out the bottom, keeping it clean and away from the bearing. It would also alleviate the tube pressure equalization that causes the oil to be sucked in (in theory). I' figure the factory sealed bearing probably had a service life of over 100K at specific loads, if it remained in it's sealed little form. That said my Roomba also has sealed bearings that should "last 5 years" that lasted all of 6 months.

Drive it like you stole it..... someone said. Well, I had a chance to speak with one of Porsche's most respected authorities & race mechanics regarding the 996 RMS & IMS issues. He stated the main issue for these failures are because people are not driving the cars "hard" enough. Usually the driver is too low in the rpms (below 3.5K rpm) when they step on the gas which creates huge stress & pressure. He states driving this car in the city in 5 gear is the a serious issue. In all the years the 996 motors were raced he recalls it had the least number issues or failures... he states it was a very strong motor ever. Keep the rpms higher in the city. When on the hwy 5th & 6th is ok because the speed is constant and little demand but don't slam the gas in 5th or 6th to pass, play in the 4.5K to 6K range. Ps. you won't need PSE now either! Hope this helps.

Has anyone done the new ims solution with the oil fitting and no ball bearings???

Hi all im new on here and ive had my 996 c2 coupe for about 10 months now, It has now developed a heavy rattle a very heavy rattle from the engine the only way I can explain what it sounds like is if someone put a brick inside a moving cement mixer....bang rattle crack etc...... Anyway ims is the suspected cause but my question is, Is it possible for me to get away with just a ims bearing replacement or is it a strip down of the engine regardless ??? The car wasn't driven since the noise started only very short distance to get her home. I just cant find a answer anywhere online for my question. I understand all cases are different but has anyone had a heavy noise and got away with only bearing replacement?? P.S great site!!!!!!

oops never mind wrong forum

996 owners beware, if you do not already know Autoweek recently had an editorial that ripped the 996 and Boxster. The cars have had some issues no doubt, but are still fantastic.Mine has given me very little trouble, I can drive to the track use it hard all weekend and drive home in comfort with the a/c on and have no worries. This article is going to hurt the cars resale and reputation.

My fellow Porsche lovers for those of you that have IMS issues with your 996 see link http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/

I doubt it will affect 996 resale. It is 10 year old news now and the 996 already took the hit. In fact their prices have bumped up a bit in the past year.

Since the Class Action was against PCNA, does anyone have any idea why there are ROW cars amongst the list of affected VIN numbers?

Maybe it's time to do a updated list of the several Different approaches to remedying this problem Which have been presented since this discussion began. The most recent attempt is called "DOF"

The DOF, or Direct Oil Injection, does appear to have many benefits that may lead to much longer bearing life. It shoots a small stream of engine oil directly onto the ball bearings, providing much more lubrication, cooling and cleansing. If I had to change my IMS bearing today, I would probably install the DOF too. I have been studying the bearing from a slightly different angle. My objective is too reduce the occurrence of catastrophic bearing failure, which leads to catastrophic engine failure. I can certainly live with bearings that wear out, they will give you plenty of warning as they do wear. Humming, buzzing, vibrating, all clear signs to their worn condition. It is when the bearing completely comes apart that will cause catastrophic engine failure. What holds the bearing together is the ball cage, also known as the retainer or separator. It is the cage that keeps the ***** in place and keeps the inner race of the bearing centered inside the outer race. When the cage comes apart, the inner race is free to dislocate, smash into the outer race, and let the timing chains slip on their sprockets, leading to catastrophic engine failure. If you are not familiar with ball bearing construction, you can look at it as a shoe. If your shoes keep falling off, do you blame the shoe? Do you call it "shoe failure"? Or do you look at the shoe laces. If a ball bearing cage could be built that will not come apart, even after bearing wear has occurred, catastrophic engine failures will not occur. A new bearing will just need to be installed. Here is some info I found on the Internet regarding this subject ( http://www.volks-apart.com/page.php?...te+Shaft++Upgr ) "The engineer�s initial thoughts were that the ball-separator failure led to bearing collapse, but after analysis of said IMS bearings, it would appear that bearing wear/fatigue spalls lead to separator wear and outer race failure. Separator failure and bearing collapse causes catastrophic failure of the mounting bolt(s) and IMS/timing chain components." It appears that this information concludes that it is the cage failure, or separator, that ultimately cause catastrophic engine failure.

I'm caving to my anxieties and having an IMS bearing replacement wrought upon my newly-acquired '04 base Carrera. What is a reasonable expense for the work I cotemplate?

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Prices going up? 996's are the cheapest I have ever seen them now. After my buddies ownership experience you couldn't pay me to own one of these cars. These cars were doomed from the moment the engineers designed them. Of course this is all my opinion. Lately, Porsche's engine longevity has been nothing short of laughable. Cayenne's have scored cylinder issues (non turbo v8), then you have IMS / RMS isuess in a variety of 996, 997, and Boxsters. Doesn't really inspire confidence in the brand.. It's a shame to because these cars are wonderful to drive!

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Do I have to have pemium membership to list a car for sale? If not, where on the site do I go. Sorry I cant find this out? Rreichek

I'm trying to list a car for sale, but don't know where to go to list it. Do I need premium membership first?

Yes, you need a member to post for sale items. Danny

Hi All, I've just purchased a low mi Carrara C4 cab w 29K mi. This car has not been "enthusiast" owned. It's my first porsche in twenty years having had two 928 5 speeds that I used daily. I'm concerned about the ins issue and would like to find someone in the SF Bay area that is well versed in replacing the bearing with LN type. If you have some shop to recommend I'd like to talk to them. Thanks for all replies.

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Very smart move on your par to get the LN bearing. I would call LN and see if they have anybody they can recommend! Good luck!

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Good idea, I also would like to find the right tech for all maintinence work. Anyone with a SF Bay area favorite? I'll need the 30K mile work and will add a new clutch when the bearing is done. I'll certainly call LN tomorrow for their input. Thanks

Hello everyone, I was a proud owner of a 911 40th anniversary limited edition Porsche until last month when couple things went wrong until a complete break down. This car has done only 64,000 km and was mostly used as a weekend car. It has full service history and had no issues in the past until last couple of weeks when it left me dead 3 times on the road in one month. First I had a dead battery which was replaced, then 2 weeks later the alternator died, again it was replaced. And finally 2 weeks after that, the car just stopped in the middle of the road with no warning signs. I took it to my Porsche dealer and they came back to me after one week saying the engine has failed and in best case scenario, the Intermediate shaft with some other parts has to be replaced. In worst case, I will need a new engine. I let them open the engine and it took them 10 days to state that the Intermediate shaft failed and the ball bearings caused more damage to the engine. The expense to fix it is huge (about 75% of a new rebuilt engine). My question is to you - why has there been an engine failure after only 64,000 km if all the maintenance has been done regularly? Porsche engines are built to last! I was hoping for this one to make at least 150,000 without major issues. Thanks for the help. Petar

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My understanding is that approximately 8-9% of 996 engines are affected by the IMS problem. There have been a few improvements made with respect to aftermarket bearings that greatly reduce that percentage. However, I myself am only researching before I buy. If I go the 996 route I think the first thing I'll do is have the RMS inspected and the IMS replaced with an aftermarket unit. Sorry to hear about your car bud.

Just wanted to say that woke up today and my IMS was fine.

does anyone know of a class action suit covering earlier 996s regarding IMS, I have a 99 with as yet no problems

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I have a 1999 with 132,000 miles. Original clutch, rms, and IMS. I am going to drive it until the wheels fall of. The whole catastrophic engine failure is a crap shoot. I think you either get an affected car or you don't. I might consider an IMS replacement when my clutch needs replacement, but for now the car runs great and gets driven hard. I look forward to continuing to drive it everyday.

My two cents: don't consider the IMS when you do the clutch - ALWAYS do the IMS bearing when you do the clutch. In 2014 in the US, approx. 235,000 people (mostly women) will be diagnosed with breast cancer, and about the same number of men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer. If you KNOW that you have a family history of one of these diseases, or you have markers indicating that the disease is developing, do you ignore it anyway, pretend there's no chance you'll have an issue, and wait until there are debilitating physical symptoms before you finally go into the doctor and expect a miraculous cure? NO, of course not. The same's true for the IMS bearing. You KNOW there's a chance - up to 10% - that your car might die if left untreated, and the IMSB retrofit "vaccine" can dramatically reduce your car's risk of dying from this issue. The IMSB discussion doesn't need to involve hysteria, fear, etc...the issue is understood and preventative treatments are available, so just avail yourself of one when it makes sense to do so and enjoy the feeling that you may have just saved a life.

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<Opinion> Since that precedent of excluding cars that had been in service for more than 10 years was set in the existing settlement, I think it's unlikely to see any additional suit addressing the older cars (primarily because the attorneys will figure that the money has been made off of this topic and will move on to greener pastures). </Opinion>

What percent of 2000 MY cars had the double row IMS bearing? I understand no one knows exactly, but is there a general feeling that half or 2/3 or whatever of the 2000 cars still had the double row?

So this winter I am going to drop my tranny and check/replace my clutch. It pisses me off to say this but whilst doing it I will do the IMS, I don’t for one second think it needs it, but when I come to sell the car anyone with an ounce of intelligence will do an internet search and read the hype. So I don’t want to pay LN for all their marketing hype and fork out $600 for the kit, I like the look of the Pelican kit, but wondered if anyone has purchased their own ceramic bearing to put in the pelican kit?

scrap my question, I just watched Pedro's youtube showing a brand new ceramic vs a ceramic with 45k on, no way I am fitting one of those to my engine. I'll go with the full Pelican kit

I just want to post in the four year old thread which no one reads even though the title says to read it first.

I just had my IMSB replaced with a LN engineering bearing. I had it done along with the clutch, flywheel, aos, water pump, thermostat, fluids, etc... Eurotech Motorsports in Natick, Ma did the work, great experience, no issues at all. I've been taking my cars to Farley (head mechanic and owner) for years now, great guy, very honest and reasonable. I recommend Eurotech to anyone who needs any work done on their Porsche (Farley is a former 996 owner). Eurotech Motorsports 15A Cochituate Natick, Massachusetts 01760 Phone [phone removed] Email [email removed]

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What did that run cost wise? I am in the market for a 996 and want to budget for this when looking

The total in parts was about 3000, and the labor was less then 2000; I did do more than what was required, but I had built in 5k into my budget when I was looking for my car, so I maxed that..., but I am now very confident when I drive my car that I will not have any major issues in the near future. Good luck with your search.

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Thank you!

Hello everyone, first post here... I've always been an air cooled 911 owner but have now recently purchased an '02 C4S that was once a CPO. This 996 has 38k miles and in the service history, it shows a RMS replacement back at about 11k miles done by Porsche. I called the dealer to inquire if they serviced the IMS but they could not verify. How can I look further into this? I have called Porsche and they are unable to help. I've driven this 996 @ relatively high RPM's prior to inspection and after. Runs solid...should I be concerned? Thank you in advances to all responses!

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I would just drive the car and enjoy it for now. You can install a magnetic drain plug to catch any metals floating in oil, cheap mod. A lot of members will tell you that if IMS bearing is concerning you then replace at time of new clutch for peace of mind. Good luck with your new 4S! And thanks for using this thread to post your question.

Is there a range of model years that the service of, or similar to, the IMSB is easier to do? I think I read some mention of a range of years where the engine had to be opened up to retrofit or replace the IMSB. Other threads seem to imply you just drop the transmission. Am I confusing some other component with the IMSB? Maybe it was early 997's? And I put this question here primarily because I don't want to **** people off who are sick of the IMSB topics but the real crux of my curiosity is to identify which engines are more or less friendly to important service...be it IMSB or other components that require service. Thanks!

Thanks for using this thread for IMSB. Only 997s need engine opened up to address the IMSB (except some earlier 997.1). All 996 IMSB can be addressed with just the transmission drop and not opening up the engine.

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I have a '00 C2 as well. Mine is an early build: Last 4 numbers of VIN are ...0220 and it was assembled in Aug 99. So I should be 99% sure I have a dual row. My take on this is if your car was assembled closer to May 01, there is a slight chance it could feature a single row bearing but again much more likely it will have a dual-row. Porsche's configuration control appears to be in the realm of a crapshoot when it comes to IMS bearings in 99Sixes. My 2 CDN cents!

Mine ends in 3075. How do you know when it was built? Mine had the double row bearing.

JD: I believe if you look under your driver's door jamb, you will see a date of assembly.

I would also check your engine serial. Mine is an early 99 (built in 98, amber tail lights an indicator) but it had a replacement engine at some point in its history , and I had no record of that. I am guessing 2001 or later. Swapped out my IMSB and found it was a single row! If there is an AT in the serial it is a reman engine. I went from a high mileage 99 dual row attitude to a low mileage single row.

With any 2000 model vehicle its a total toss up as to if the engine will have a single, or dual row IMSB. The numbers have proven to be worthless, as they are constantly inaccurate. Porsche kept poor records on this aspect of the engines. A visual inspection is the ONLY way to know which bearing is fitted.

Came across this article. Seems to have captured the main IMS options pretty well. They missed the relatively recent FVD ceramic sealed bearing option though. http://www.thepopularmechanic.com/Po...MSOptions.html

^That is a very short and sweet article with good info. Seems like oil-fed would be the way to go, especially the cylindrical bearing option. That's the one thing no one seems to have an answer to is which solution is best, or if they all have worked as intended with no problems.

Has anybody used this before... IMS Guardian http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...UPG996_pg1.htm

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I developed the Guardian. It gives a symptom to an otherwise symptomless failure. It doesn't keep wear from occurring or doesn't address the issue, it only tells that you have an issue pending. That's a big help, and saves the rest of the engine from collateral damage. If you have the funds to retrofit, then do that. If not, employ the IMSG.

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If somebody were buying a 996 that appeared problem free except no indication of an IMS retroit, would you recommend the guardian until the next clutch service? Does a magnetic drain plug interfere with the guardian?

Has the failure percentage been changed at any way in the 3.6L when compared to the 3.4L?

After all the reading I've done regarding this IMS issue - there is one question I haven't seen an answer to: Why do 90% of the bearings hold up and 10% go bad? I've read the "garage queen" theory and the "track car" theory. I've also seen the "lubrication" theory. Is there a definitive answer out there or just a bunch of theories? . . . Now if I could just figure out if mine is one of the 90% ones or one of the 10% ones . . . before.

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But thats not all.... I haven't even started discussing the impacts of issues that exist between the distances of IMS housing bores in relationship to crankshaft centerlines. This is a huge deal, and has been overlooked by everyone else. I have develooed a tool to measure this when doing retrofit procedures. if these distances are too great, or not great enough, the load that the IMSB sees from the chain, tensioner is greater.

WOW! Now, THERE'S an insight, IMHO. I figure that there's got to be something different about the vehicles beyond usage, etc. How does this variance happen? (It kind of reminds me of way back in my Corvette days, when some of the 327 engines' cylinders suffered from "core shift" from the sand moving during the casting process of the block.) How much variance has been found? Is there any kind of pattern to it in terms of model year or manufacture date? Very interesting stuff.

Until every M96 has croaked, we won't know the ACTUAL percentage of failure due to IMS bearing. The true number will be higher than the figures stated as part of the IMSB settlement. If the 10% number was accurate at the time when it was published, and it is true that (a) people are still experiencing this failure and (b) the number of 996's is constant (i.e. they're not making more of them), the 10% number is no longer reflective of reality. My point is NOT that we're all gonna have IMS bearing failure . If I thought that was true, I would get rid of my 996. My only point is that the actual percentage of IMSB failures is unknown, and probably unknowable. Trying to identify an exact percentage is a fool's errand, and tossing numbers around and claiming they're exact percentages is deceptive.

Well I am at a point of decision. I have an '02 Carrera I bought two years ago with 100,000 miles (had just turned 100). When I bought it I was very concerned about RMS/IMS, etc., and either required documentation that they had either been replaced, or I was going to have it reflected in the price. I searched for 6 months to find the right car, and THOUGHT at the time that the IMS had been replaced at the local dealer, along with the clutch and RMS, just before I bought the car. I'm convinced the PO thought so too, because although not an expert he was aware of the matter. Now, two years and 44,000 miles later, I have accidentally discovered that the IMS was NOT replaced. I do not think the PO lied to me - I think he honestly didn't understand. (Service report stated the dealer replaced the Pilot bearing.) Not being sure, I went to the dealership's service dept to find out. Not only were they able to confirm that they hadn't replaced it, they told me they had NEVER replaced an IMSB! I was shocked, but in hindsight I guess they wouldn't want to use aftermarket parts, or admit there is a problem, so that may be why. Nonetheless, what do I do now? I'm tempted to do the LNE retrofit, but then I see stories of THOSE failing. Now I'm wondering, if I've made it to 144,000, do I mess with it at all? I check my filter every oil change, and change it every 5,000 miles or so. I don't have a magnetic plug, or the Guardian. At the very least I guess I should get one or the other. My local indy charges $1,800 to do the IMS, so it's not as onerous as some people have cited here. Still, that's money I'd rather spend elsewhere! I LOVE this car and don't plan on selling it. It's been my DD for two years now, and getting into something else just isn't going to cut it. High miles don't bother me. I just fix stuff and keep on driving. Overall this has been a stellar car to own, and my costs have been relatively minimal. I'm tempted to just keep driving it. Suggestions???

PM me the name of that dealership, I bet they have done a retrofit before. Only three dealers in all of North America haven't done at least one IMSR job the last I had checked. The last place I'd take a car for an IMSR is a dealer, they seldom pre- qualify and they charge more. That said, an engine with 144K must be pre- qualified for an IMSR very closely to ensure that the owner will get a good return on the investment if the retrofit.

PM sent! Thanks!

Ok, so now it has come to light what has been in the back of my head. My new to me '01 996 had an RMS leak in the maintenance history that was fixed by the dealer at 20k miles in 2006. When I purchased the car a few months ago it seemed that a small leak was a known gremlin and that by itself isn't that concerning... but the logic of the RMS/Flywheel seal alignment issue being a parallel issue to the IMS alignment makes some sense as to why some cars might be snakebit. My question is this... How many owners with IMSB failure ALSO had issues with RMS (Flywheel) leaking? I am no machinist but I would imagine that production is done with certain tolerances that will need recalibration as production ensues. Maybe the acceptable tolerances were too wide and the engines fabricated outside of the ideal might have been doomed to fail?

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In order to properly measure these data points with your tool accurately, do you have to have the engine opened up? I would call your input above as akin to a paradigm shift in thinking, in the ongoing IMSB failure saga.

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I have one tool set that is used during an ins retrofit with the engine assembled. I have another that's used during engine measurement of an engine that's fully disassembled.

Thank you, Jake! I would assume then that the internal measurement would be more accurate than the external measurement by a few thousands (or mms) and as such used to confirm the latter.

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Not really.. It just allows two more checks to be done. Honestly, these two dimensions are less critical. The most important measurements are capable of being measured externally.

I was checking out a low mileage 2001 996. I asked about IMS replacement and dealer said that his mechanic inspected the clutch with a camera and there's no sign of leaking RMS, therefore the IMS is good. My BS meter pegged out, but wanted to check with more knowledgeable folks here--my understanding was there's no way to see the clutch or the IMS without dropping the transmission. Comments? Thanks!

ANYONE IN PHILA AREA HAVE IMS, IM OUT, AND SO IS SSF AND WORLD PAC........... WHAT IS GOING ON???? PRICE UP SUPPLY DOWN

An admittedly ignorant question, so I apologize in advance: I bought an '03 C4S early this year, with just under 50,000 miles. Thanks to a friend/neighbor, who built a rather nice home on the money he's made over 20 years rebuilding Porsche mechanicals, I had at least a reasonably complete set of questions for the dealer. Turns out, the engine was removed and repaired at Beverly Hills Porsche at 17,000 miles. The questions: 1.Can I presume that the repair was for a failed IMS bearing? If so, I'm safe from that standpoint. 2.Any likelihood that an authorized Porsche dealership would retain the information---that is, how many IMS failures they'd identified and repaired, if only to report back to the Mother Ship in Germany? I know: Near impossible to provide an actual answer. I may just call Beverly Hills Porsche in California to answer #2.

No you can't presume. Could have just been a leaking RMS replaced with the new and improved seal and no connection to the IMS. And if it was the IMS and Jake's "out of spec" findings are correct just plugging in a new bearing doesn't fix the alignment issue that may be part of the cause for the early failure. Manufacturing variations and installation variations. Do they add up or cancel each other out? There are engines with known multiple failures. Will the dealership give you that info? Generally they don't like to but you might get a wink and a nod depending on how well you are known to spend money there.

i have read just about everything on the boards here and have also talked with Jake about my car - but i wanted to get a few other opinions on this thread (no offense to you jake, im just checking my boxes) i recently bought a 2004 C4S cab with 12k miles on it...it wasnt driven much (obviously), but they were diligent with their upkeep. I am debating between doing nothing, doing LN retrofit, or shipping my car to Jake and having the IMS solution put in... was hoping for any advice from y'all

With no history - meaning low miles - I would change it. But I was bit in the butt by the IMS so I am biased. Depends what your plans are with the car. If you plan to occ drive the car I would get the new IMS retrofit (single to double bearing thing). If it is going to be your daily driver and you plan on doing a lot of miles I would do the solution. I did a double row with a 70K mile service interval and I will have to do it again in a few years. The LN website has a list of certified installers if GA is not close to you.

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No problem, just keep doing your homework. You always have to consider the basis of "opinions" and the fact that the person who has them on these forums may know less about the topic than you do. Thats the problem so many times. if people had as much life experience as they have opinions, we'd all be better off.

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Another victim of failure ('03; at around 38K miles). Put in the Solution; I don't know whether you intent to keep it indefinitely (my plan), or are thinking in terms of re-sale. I don't think it matters. Put it in and then forget about it.

Hi All, This is my very first post (but I'm a long-time forum frequenter/contributor on many other technical/motorcycle forums). Just purchased an '03 996 C4S with 19,729 miles and it's on a delivery vehicle as I write this. Being the tech-geek I am, I have been devouring EVERYTHING 996 I can get my virtual hands on, including the RMS/IMS issues surrounding the M96/97 engines. After reading this entire thread, I figured I'd share this very interesting video... Porsche IMS Bearing Story featuring the Direct Oil Feed (DO) - YouTube This one actually shows a DOF install without actually replacing the bearing (obviously, the bearing is in nominal condition), but just removing the seal to allow direct oil injection... IMS Bearing Direct Oil Feed (DOF) Installation Video by TuneRS Motorsports - YouTube I apologize if these vids have been posted elsewhere on this forum, but I thought this would be an excellent place for them as new members like me search for all the info they can get on the IMS issue and its options for dealing with it long term.

Any ball bearing has a "designed service life" which is affected by contamination of the bearing, overloading of the bearing, or exceeding the rpm design of the bearing. I have replaced a 2006 3.4 IMSB that failed at 145,000 miles. It did not bend valves nor suffer any collateral damage (save financial and loss of use) because it had just come off a lift in prep for the track (brakes being serviced) and made one helluva racket! It had apparently been dying for some time and that was just the LUCKY timing of the total fail. The inner stub flange for the 2006 (at least) has only a 1 mm clearance of the inside of the IMS. This stub supported the IMS for the 6 miles limp home. Shoulda flat topped it, I know. On a bb somewhere is a pic of the inner race which had spalling on 180 degrees of it. This was the pressure side. Ball bearings are like basketballs rolling in a bowling gutter under pressure. The pressured areas are flexing a minute amount and at some point, they can't rebound to the original shape. When the little pieces start flaking off, the failure is accelerated by rolling thru the trash. Now they die.

RE:the RMS. It's a rubber piece. I put a clutch in a 928S4 and the rear seal was dry as a chip. Two weeks later I was having it aligned for d.e. and it was leaking like a sieve! Lesson, change it anytime you're in there. Of course me being the clutch mechanic and they are so easy on the 928, it was just a minor incovenience, but if I'd been paying someone, it would have been big bucks for a $40 part change.

Guys, it seems like i'd seen on here somewhere before that IF you're going to have one of these issues, that they Usually happen Before the 60k mile mark compared to After! Is there any truth to this, Thanks & Happy Motoring!

You can think of failure causes as falling into several areas: manufacturing tolerances, simple part failure, caused by failure of another part, wear, poor oil change habits and installation variables. The well used higher mileage car has several of those causes ruled out. So are the odds of failure by increased wear due to the number of revolutions more than the causes ruled out? Who knows.

I proactively had IMS bearing replaced at 60k miles. My IMS bearing settlement claim for my 2001 996 was rejected because it was manufactured before 05.04.2001. The following is a quote from the email from the plaintiff attorney's email explaining why my claim was rejected: "Based on the information provided to us by Porsche in discovery, the failure rate of vehicles with your version of the IMS, from 2001 to 2005, was in the range of 4 to 10%. Porsche began using that particular version of the IMS that was subject to the higher failure rate as part of its production runs exclusively as of May 4, 2001. This same IMS model was used through February 21, 2005. The failure rate of the IMS in Porsche vehicles pre-dating May 2001 and post-dating February 2005 was documented at less than 1%. The higher failure rate between May 4, 2001 and February 21, 2005 is the reason why some vehicles are included and others are not. "

I dropped my 02 996 C2 off at Flat6 over the weekend to Proactively have the IMS Procedure done. My 996 has 76K with a regular service history. Also replacing the Water Pump and Air to Oil Separator. I want to enjoy the car and not have to worry about when the bearing will let go. Picking her up on Friday.

Hello to All, About 2 weeks ago I purchased a 1999 996 C4 with 58k miles on it, but always dealer maintained. I immediately sent it to my local tech for an LN IMS upgrade, new brakes, and new tires. Yesterday the tech called and said they were having trouble getting the IMS bearing out. It seemed to be stuck. They also said there was no sign of bearing failure. They soaked it with WD-40 and will try again today to remove the bearing. I asked them to now pull the oil pan and open the oil filter. Question: 1) Has anyone ever experienced an IMS bearing that was exceptionally difficult to take out or worse yet actually frozen to the shaft?

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Your engine utilizes a dual row IMS Bearing with an internal wire lock. This lock must be broken to remove the ins bearing. This does take a lot of effort, but if they are using my extraction tools, or my Fautless Tool, the job is possible. It sounds like this shop lacks experience with a dual row extraction. That's not good.

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Wow! Thanks for the quick reply, and I am excited to have one of the nation's finest authorities on Porsche engines answer my question. Thanks again. I did ask if he knew about the 1999 having the internal wire lock, he claimed he knows and has done them before. In your experience have you ever had or heard of an IMS bearing that wouldn't come out with the proper tools? I totally agree with your sentiment though; he did come highly recommended from a fellow that uses him to maintain his spec boxster, and he supposedly does a lot of Porsche work, but he is most definitely not exclusive to Porsches, and now I'm nervous. I think I'll take a trip to the shop and look at what he's using as an extraction tool. Is that obnoxious?

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Some are tougher than others, but I've always removed every one. In fact, a super tough dual row bearing extraction is what lead to my extraction tool development. I have broken center studs during extraction efforts, and if that happens the tech will have to use the broken stud accessory in the tool kit. The trick here is to place a load on the extraction tool and walk away from it. Every 5 minutes or so crank the tool down harder and walk away again. Keep doing this and you might hear the tool, and bearing break free, and shoot across the shop. Been there. The key is letting the heavy load be placed on the bearing for a period of time, rather than just being Goliath and wrenching it out. He now HAS to remove the bearing, because the bearing has seen dented races and ***** from trying to be extracted.

2002 C4 cab, 72,000 miles, IMS bearing went, scarred cylinder walls, case okay [ now bored to 4.0 liters], everything else was good. IMS bearing gave way with no warning; nothing in the oil or filter, checked it religiously. Single row. 8% of cars?! To me, it happened 100%! Not giving up on the car, I plan on keeping it. The engine is at Vision Motorsports for the full meal deal rebuild. dwdunn

Had my '02 C2 with 55k miles IMSB done (LNE, single row, with serial number sticker) last week, along with the clutch, pressure plate and bearing, and RMS, at Lufteknic in Richmond. IMSB was perfect, seals intact, and full of grease. Smooth as butter. On top of that, RMS had already been done and was bone dry, but it was a red & blue aftermarket, so I had the latest Porsche one installed, AND the clutch disc had been replaced as well! It had an '05 DOM on it. So, in essence, all the work was unnecessary! But amazingly, the engine shifts, feels and sounds significantly better! Of course you get a fresh oil change with that, which may account for a lot of it, and they use Liqui Moly Hi Tech 5W-40, which I've never used. $3300 out the door, but documented peace of mind, now..

I'm in the care of a year 2000 Carrera with just over 125K miles on it. RMS replaced with new clutch but not IMSB. The engine is running very very free and shows no signs of anything. It's fantastic. The door manf date of 04/2000 puts the engine design in the pre-May 2001 to Feb 2005 period (where the incidence of failure was 4-10% and PAG covered the IMSB problem) with the % failure of <1%. Question: Obviously it's best to get the IMSB replaced but has anyone here actually had a year 2000 IMSB breakdown? Tx in advance...

Just did my first oil change after IMSB replacement. My filter is littered with metal. I know someone else had this happen but couldn't find the thread. Should I do another change in a short period? Flatbed it to GA...? I found the previous thread and the metal is ferrous. Thanks in advance! TC ETA: Sending my oil out for analysis first thing tomorrow.

Ok guys, I just got my first 911, its an 03 C2 6sp with 90k miles I read all I could find on the IMS issue and still don't have a conclusive answer, maybe there isn't one. From what I have read I would have to conclude that at 90k miles, if it was going to fail it would probably already have. We'll never know the real effected population because many good bearings have been replaced as a precaution, and even those replacements aren't a permanent solution. Please advise, thanks

According to the Eisen IMS class action lawsuit, data reveal that the rate of IMS failure in MY98-99 dual row bearing is 1%. In the article about the 996 “Exploding myths” in Total 911 we can read: “First, it’s important to point out that it is the early 3.4-litre engines, made from 1998 to 2000, that are most susceptible to major failure. (…)”. There seems to be misinformation on the IMS topic.

Total 911 is just plain wrong. It couldn't be more wrong. Did the writer post an email address? If so, I'll square him away.

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If a "cousins" fight emerges from my post, I surely deserve to be banned!

Getting your 2003 C4S back on the road after being garaged for 1.5 years. Thought I blew the engine but when I trailered it 120 miles to Newport Beach, I found the best P-car mech I've ever met. Singh Kaku (European Car Specialists) replaced the Air-Oil separator and put in a new coolant tank (I was blowing white smoke when I garaged it). Since it had been sitting, the RMS was leaking. Singh convinced me to do the IMS upgrade. It looked expensive since he recommended the LN Engineering ceramic one $800. Since he saved me a boat load of money on the engine (I had saved for a new one, this one had 187K miles on it), I made the decision to do everything I could. New motor & transmission mounts, new clutch, RMS and upgraded bearing, several cosmetic things and I picked it up last week. Happiness is having a P-car that drives like it is brand new, tight as ever, quick as ever. Happiness is also knowing that the IMS bearing will last - Mine had 187K on it but you could tell it was a little loose. Happiness is having a P-car mech that you can absolutely trust, will do an expert quality job and be reasonable about it. Color me Happy. - Fast Frank 2003 C4S

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Awesome story!!! Good to hear!!

So about two weeks ago I bought a 2001 C4 with 32,XXX miles and the DREADED SINGLE ROW IMSB OF DEATH! Drove it for a couple of days, went on vacation, checked the tire pressure and took that bitch out to my first autocross and pushed it as hard as I could. Dropped it off Monday for a FULL service and decided to go with the LNE retrofit dual row bearing upgrade while I was at it. The original bearing looks brand new. Feels brand new. My mechanic told me that out of all the IMSB he has replaced he has found a grand total of ZERO that were bad. Dual row, single row, MT, Tip, garage queen, race car...none of the original bearings were bad. Still, it feels good knowing I have that LNE in there and wont have to worry about it again as long as I own the vehicle. FWIW

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Yeah, after 167K mine was serviceable, a little loose, but I sleep so well knowing that I have the L&N retrofit. - Fast Frank

Hi, first time post here. I thought I post here since it has some IMS related question. I am in the prospect of buying a 996 c2 convertible, have 2 options: 1. 1999 with 62k miles for $20k 2. 2000 with 130k miles for $15k both are 1 owner car with good condition, service regularly, have service records but neither has the IMS bearing replaced. Questions: 1. Are the price fair (it is per KBB), or should I negotiate for less for the IMS replacement 2. Which one should I get if I want to make it as my daily driver 60 miles commute round trip. I am planning to keep it as long as I can. Obviously I will also do PPI prior committing just to be on the safe side. Thanks!

Personally Id spend more to get one with lower milage. Go ahead and do IMSB replacement for peace of mind and the. Drive the wheels off it.

Just lost my 98 Boxster to a bad head gasket and I'm looking to replace it with a 996. I'm most interested in the MKII engines and a 2002-2004 is in my price range. Conventional wisdom dictates I buy as new a model has possible. However, I've been told that in mid-2003 there was a change made that makes the late-2003 and all 2004s more difficult to work on than the 2002s and early 2003s. Any truth to this? How much should I expect to spend on an IMS retrofit for a 2002-2004 996?

I drive a 2001 996 with 75000 miles on it and have had no issues with IMS.

my 98 996 c2 tip with 60,000 is running fine, and i regularly take it to 6500rpm, i read all the magazines and tend to find that Total 911 always seems to mention the IMS as if was very high chance of failure and not like the smaller % found in the poll. If you look at the later designed Audi A5 v8, its timing chain has a similar "catastrophic" problem and the BMW 1,3 and 5 Series diesel timing chain snap, is also a catastrophic problem...... I'm going to enjoy the car till something happens, good luck guys.

My 2pennyworth. The failure of the IMS may be more to do with poor tolerance and variance due to lack of quality control at production of the parts. The failures in some cases may be caused initially by very small movement of the bearing housing when under pressure leading to increased stress and wear on the bearings themselves. This then eventually causes the increase in freeplay that then goes on to destroy first the seal from the centre (leak of grease) then allows further accelerated deteriortion of the bearing and the bearing race proper. It is not likely to be simply failure of the seals as bearings can survive with very small amounts of lubrication. The seals were supposed to be designed to withstand the higher running temps of the engine. There are reports of low mileage IMS failures and if the seal theory were true then they were pretty crap to go so soon and why would 92% be fine and 8% not be - there must be other factors involved. That may be why there are differing mileages for IMS bearing collapse. It is because they are starting at different degrees of tolerance, some will be fine some a mircon out of some much worse etc. That is also why Porsche were at first wipping away defective engines and replacing them because they did not know what was going on at first. What 'premium' company would admit to poor quality components? That could also explain why they remained silent for so long. They did not know what the longer term outcome would look like in numbers of failures. It would not have taken long for someone to extrapolate likely failure rates and the then ever decreasing numbers of failures as time went on. That theory would also explain why not all IMS bearings have failed. Those that were within acceptable tolerance in regards to quality and 'fit' have stood the test of endurance as they were expected to. We have all read the stories of bearings being 'upgraded' only to be told it was 'like new and seals intact'. That may also explain why the instances of failure are tailing off, if you beleive the latest polls. The cars have been out of production for 10 years now but still, using a theoretical bell shaped graph it would show a peak of failure 'those that were always going to fail' and then reduce as those that were ok remain and others are replaced as precautions. To cut the boring rantings of a madmans theory short. There are a number of factors at play. Quality of the parts. Maybe how you drive the car as low revs high gear combinations would increase the stress on the relevant parts of the engine, and if they were not up to par in the first place, increase the wear/damage. On the upside. IF any of this crazy theorisation were true then the higher numbers of failures that have been seen in the past (some reports as high as 8%) will not be repeated in the future. Their are no guarrantees in life, other than death and taxes, but those cars that remain are less likely to fail because they were ok in the first place. A caveat to that would be very late models that have very very low mileages whose less than perfect IMS has not had enough run time yet to fail. A double caveat is that Porsche may at some point between 2001 and 2005 realised the issue, one would hope they have some smart engineers working for them, and changed production or supplier. That may explain the other theory that there were higher instances of failure in 2001 and 2002 cars - again all theory. If I had the inclination it would be interesting to excel spreadsheet the model, production year and mileage for each IMS failure to see if there were really any peaks. I do not work for Porsche but if I did I would be sneaking into the secrets room and pulling the file marked 'Intermediate Shaft Failure - The Truth!!'. Will I get mine done - yes probably when the clutch needs replacing but not before. I have never needed to be a 100% person to be able to sleep at night. The replacement would need to be a 'fit and forget' I would not be fitting one of the LN - now to be swapped again at 40K units. keep it well serviced, drive it and enjoy it - that why you bought it. Regards GW

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The other determining factor of IMSB failure lies in the alignment, and distances of the IMS assembly, to the crankshaft. This is the most often overlooked variable, and can be perfect, or way out of whack. This is why some engines lose multiple IMS Bearings, as no bearing can run in an environment where it is not running straight, or has too much side loading from the drive chain.

I've been saying for years that the low failure rate and wide range of mileages at the time of failure is a clear indicator that there are multiple variables at play. If it were down to a specific design flaw the failure rate would be much higher and the mileage range much narrower.

First off, thanks in advance - this forum's information has been incredibly helpful as I learned about 996s before pulling the trigger at the car this week. I'm new to P-cars (just graduated from Mustangs) and have an older S6 daily driver. Is there any way to tell by the leak or color if this is an RMS (or worse, IMS) about to go? Car 2003 996 w/ 27K miles, purchased this week. I will be doing the LNE retrofit but was hoping to drive her for the next couple months (2k miles max) until I save up the money for the retrofit. Any way to tell how safe I am waiting a couple months???

Thanks for using this thread. You need to remove the transmission to see whether it's RMS or IMS or both. No way to tell from just your pics. Note IMS leak could be a precurser of IMSB failure. If You plan to address it anyway, I think it makes more sense not to drive it till you can inspect the bearing. Why take the risks.

I do not wish to scare anyone as I purchased a 997.1 2005 m97 Carrera S and have some constructive criticism. I changed the motor oil every 4k miles of the 20k ownership I had with the car. first issue I had was a leaking rms - this happened twice within 20k miles. I though I was safe and sound when I creeped into 55k miles with respect to the IMS, then all of a sudden backing out of my garage I feel a thud. shut down the engine look around the back and see a pool of oil. sell these m96 m97 cars and buy either a 911 with a DFI or Metzger motor. I know that they are a lot more expensive. I would either recommend you buy an aftermarket warranty to cover such events.

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I am amazed by the number of "experts" that do not know how to spell Mezger . Recommending that EVERYONE sells their M96-powered 911 and spend a great deal more money to purchase a car with a different engine isn't constructive criticism - it's unrealistic advice. It seems like you were aware of the IMSB issue but chose to not retrofit your (likely) single-row car. It sucks that your car turned out to be one of "those" cars - but there were steps you could have taken to prevent it that are less costly than acquiring a 991 or a Mezger car. Regardless of the fact that I don't like the advice, I do feel for anyone whose engine dies unexpectedly - that sucks, and I'm sorry to hear it. Based on your signature, you were able to heed your own advice and get a Turbo - which is awesome. It must be a blast...

That engine is filthy for 27,000 miles. In fact, its filthy for any mileage. Dropping the engine ASAP is the best thing you can do, so sounds like you got it covered. I wouldn't wait if I were you.

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But if everyone takes your advice, the people that buy the m96, m97's will read this and immediately sell their new m96 m97's and the people that buy those will immediately sell their m96 m97's....

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I bought an '05 with approximately 20K. Two years later at around 32K when the CPO expired I had the LN IMSB installed along with a clutch (the pedal was very hard to push, the previous owner probably didn't know how to drive a stick properly), and at the same time bought a 6 year bumper-to-bumper aftermarket warranty. Now 4 1/2 years later at 62K the IMS is still holding up, and the aftermarket warranty has almost paid for itself in various "minor" repairs (shifter cables, water pump, oil pressure sending unit, coil packs, rear strut mount, motor mounts and a few others I'm forgetting at the moment). I still have 1 1/2 years or 12K miles left on the warranty. For half (or less) than what it would cost me to sell up to a 997.2 or 997.1 GT3 or TT I could put a remanufactured engine in my car. The chance of me needing to spend $25K on a new engine is definitely less than the chance a newer car will depreciate at least $25K...because the latter is a certainty. Changing out the IMSB has given me the freedom to worry about bore scoring

If you want confidence just shop the Internet or autotrader for 996's, refine the search for High mileage. Contact the sellers and you will learn the owners Just put 120,000 miles on the car and don't know what a RMS is. Lots of high mileage original cars out there

Just picked up an 02 C2 with approx 100k Miles, has the replacement LN bearing and I'm pretty confident I wont have any issues.

Hi all Newby here, considering my first 996 purchase. I found an '02 996 in the Dallas area that I like a lot. It's a 36K car in very nice shape. The description in the advertisement clearly states LN IMS Bearing. An e-mail with one of the sales people confirms this was done. When i asked for a copy of the shop order the work was done on, I was sent the attached: 1) VIN on the shop order matches VIN in the ad and on the included Carfax. 2) I see comment '..........requests replace intermediate shaft seal' and the first 2 parts noted as a sealing ring and housing. 3) Is this the IMS bearing? 4) If so, any ideas on how this could have been done at $0 on a car clearly out of warranty. 5) Should I expect to see something clearly referencing an L&N Eng IMS bearing? Thanks in advance Anyone fell free to PM me with guidance/assistance on this.

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That invoice only shows the car had its RMS and IMS flange seal done but not the bearing (IMSB) itself. I would also expect LN bearing listed on the invoice if that was the case. Note not all dealers are willing to perform aftermarket IMSB retrofit. The "0" charges maybe because the costs were covered by an aftermarket warranty. The invoice said internal pay so maybe some insider paid.

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Ahsai - should I expect to see this specific work listed on the CarFax? There is an entry in the time frame, but it does not mention the seal work.

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Doesn't the LN bearing come with the flange? I have my original flange but was not charged for a separate one when mine was done. As said in another thread, if there is no proof then it wasn't done as far as your concerned. Boggles my mind why they would go that far and not do the bearing though. Maybe it's a replacement engine and has a captured bearing?

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Unlikely. Carfax is good to confirm issues with the car but not good to prove the car has no issues beyond doubts because negative entries could be missing (e.g., accidents, bodywork, etc.). Yes, the LN IMSB retrofit kit comes with a custom flange. That's another indication it's unlikely the LN kit was used because the part list contains the stock IMSB flange and its seal (parts 13 and 39 here )

They're now admitting that the bearing probably wasn't replaced. I'm wondering if any of this work was done. As Gnat mentions above, why would you go this far and not change the bearing? I'm questioning the invoice itself - all of this work and parts at $0 on a 12 year old out of warranty car with no signatures at the bottom. Just doesn't look right to me.

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Is it a tiptronic?

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Yes

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Ok, I think that explained the coolant and pentosin on the invoice. Whether the work was performed or not I guess it's the same meaning most likely the car still has the stock bearing.

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Sorry for what might not be a smart question, but here goes. How does the car, being a tiptronic, explain the use of coolant and pentosin? All the 996s have coolant, and the pentosin is what, brake fluid or power steering fluid???

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Removal of the tiptronic transmission requires removal of a coolant line. Pentosin is the ATF for topping off the tiptronic.

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I was wondering that too...

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Oh, thanks. I thought the engine/transaxle would be removed as a unit from the car to do the IMSB. Then the coolant system would be opened up on standard gear box cars or tiptronics. I didn't know you would remove the transaxle from the car and leave the engine in there. Interesting, thanks. Hollywood, I'm glad I wasn't the only one wondering. Good luck with your 996.

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Yea, removing just the transmission is sufficient for '99 to '01 models. '02 and newer require removal of the engine and tip as one piece.

Is it possible to only drop the Tiptronic and leave the engine in place? I've been quoted an additional 10 hours to replace an IMS on a Tiptronic equipped car over a standard 6-speed. I think this was because Tiptronic cars have to remove the engine and transmission as a whole. True?

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Ok, I was only half right. 02 and newer do require removal of the engine and tip as one piece. 01 and older requires only renoval of the trans itself. See RFM and PTEC posts here http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/34021-engine-removal-for-2003-tip-to-do-ims/

When I had them quote the job for me, they said the tip takes about an hour longer than a manual.

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I'm guessing "Customer" in this case is actually the dealership. If the car came in on a trade, and it had a leak, that would be the reason to replace the rear main and IMS seals at no charge. I believe the blank area at top left would be where the customer info would be printed if there was any.

Jake:- How many 996 engines (if any) containing the original double row IMS bearing have you known to have failed catastrophically. The years 98 to part of year 2000????? I have no idea how many 996 engines were produced during these years. I am not interested in how many owners have changed bearings as a PM procedure. Just the double row originals that have failed catastrophically. TIA.

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I don't have the exact numbers handy right now. I will say that the dual row bearings are usually caught before they grenade completely, since the dual row unit is strong enough to hold together twice as long as a single row. They stay at stage 3 failure for a decent time, while the single row jumps stage 3 pretty much and just falls apart. The issue with a dual row is IF it starts to fail it takes too long to fail. This is a big deal, because it sheds twice as much wear debris as a single row, and that wipes out the cylinders, crank, oil pump, scavenge pumps, and even the cam journal surfaces of the heads. We see probably two dozen dual row failures a year here, but the numbers have dropped over the years, due to more engines being retrofitted each year. Last year dual row, and single row bearing sales were almost even, which is why distributors decided to add the dual row IMS Solution to their offerings.

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That answered my question. Thanks Jake. All told 175,262 996 models were produced of which less than 58,281 had the double race IMS bearing. Rough estimate being a third of all produced. Guestimates of catastrophic failures being between 5% and 10%. The guestimate includes both single and double race ims bearing's from year 1997 including 2004. The double race should be significantly less then between 5% and 10% failure. I feel fortunate to have a 1999 996 model with the original double race bearing. I will continue cutting apart the oil filter every 5000 miles for as long as I own the car.

I am thinking of having one of your qualified shops install the IMS Solution on my C4S. Can you offer some Rennlisters a holiday discount :thumbs:. I had previously installed the IMS retrofit on my old C2.

I too am a new 996 owner. I am interested in the DOF modification and anyone's take on it compared to the ceramic bearing replacement.

Anyone use the LN Engineering IMS Solution that does not use a roller bearing and is oil fed?

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The IMS Solution is not an LN product, its offered by IMS Solution LLC and distributed by LN. My name is on the Patent as Inventor. If you'd like to contact those who have the IMS Solution, you may find a few here, but most lurk and don't post. I have dozens of contacts of owners that you can reach out to that have had the unit installed here at flat 6. I won't share their info, but I can contact them, to see if they'll contact you with their story. All my engines receive the IMS Solution, after all, thats the reason I invented, developed, and brought the unit to market in the first place. Please don't confuse technologies; the IMS Solution may be oil fed, but the oil is delivered into the IMS Flange, where it is the delivered directly to the internal clearances of the plain bearing in a controlled fashion. This is not to be confused with the delivery of oil that is uncontrollably sprayed onto the face of a dynamic ball or roller bearing component.

Thank you for the clarification. Are Porsche dealers certified installers for this part? I'm in Ohio and it looks like Kraftwwerks is the only Ohio installer I see. Thanks

10% of cars affected according to the essential 996 guide. 2% according to the senior most technician at RUF Autocentre here in Dallas. What are the numbers like here? I'll be reading the thread in the meanwhile.

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Depends on the bearing (dual or single) you are talking about and who you talk to (and in some cases how they feel on that day). I've seen claims as low as 1% and as high as 20%. There is no actual hard data and about the closest you can get is the class action info which if I remember correctly tagged the single row bearing at about 5%.

The active oiling setup SOUNDS logical but you must ask yourself if this is a solution looking for a problem like we say in the gun building business.....given the percentages as well.

I feel that you are right on the issue of DOF. I think that I am going to go with the LN Bearing solution. I wish that the new double-row bearing IMS Solution was available, but not until later this year, I am told. Thanks to all who replied to this post!

Got answer I was looking for. Thanks

Jake any idea where i can get your bearing installed in HK? I have asked you 5months ago and nobody knows about it here

Has anyone heard of a failure of the LN Engineering bearing or any of the other "solutions"? Also, when you see a car advertised stating, "Engine replaced by Porsche due to failure", what IMS bearing would that engine have?

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That depends on the year it was replaced. I believe anything after 2005 will have the captured bearing. Prior to that it would most likely have been a single row. As far as your other question. Engines have failed with after market bearings in them (I am not aware of any Solution motors failing though). The problem, however, is that while claims have been made that it was the bearing that was at fault (specifically targeting LN) it has never been proven. Questions about the state of the motor at the time of the swap (e.g. putting the bearing into a motor that is already failing) or if it was one of the other types of failures that these motors can experience and the bearing was collateral damage go unanswered. They just pull the transmission, see that the bearing is trashed, and blame the bearing.

Hello Everyone , Just had the LN Engineering update for my 1999 Porsche 996 911 C2 done at a great independent shop in Narragansett , RI. I would highly recommend them as the technician who performed mine is a Porsche enthusiast and owner ( Old School 1984 911). I recently purchased the car with 35k on the clock. He went through the entire car front to back and did IMS B double row , RMS , OEM clutch kit , flywheel , slave cylinder , updated 997 ignition coils , sparkplugs , new PS2 tires and alignment , and a little touch up work to the battery tray/firewall area for corrosion. Car feels amazing , felt amazing before but to a new level now. anyone in the RI , CT , MA ,and Metro area should give these guys a try. Reasonable pricing , use only OEM supplier parts , and are flexible with any request or questions you have. So bearing was at stage 1 failure , seals intact , grease washed out and engine oil inside , bearing was in perfect shape but who knows for how long with that rancid oil in there. I don't know why the Porsche just didn't leave off the oil or grease seals for the bearing, it would probably lived to 100k plus if they did. Anyway , great shop highly recommend.

Any specific recommendations as to the best shop to install an aftermarket bearing in South Orange County, CA? My usual go-to guy doesn't really believe in changing it out until there are signs in the oil/filter that something is starting to fail.

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That would be too late if you plan to keep the car afterwards. The IMSB retrofit is supposed to be a preventive maintenance before anything goes bad.

I understand that Ahsai. It is why I'm asking. Thanks.

If you have not, I highly recommend you read this http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/ and everything else on that website. This will give you very good background info on IMS.

Just read it. It is the best info all in one place that I have seen yet. Thanks.

LeNoah, Check with TruSpeed over by the airport in Costa Mesa. That's who I'd take mine to. They gave me a quote w/ clutch and flywheel (if needed) of $4K.

Nevermind. Just checked and they closed their service division last year and are only focused on racing...

Just curious, is there a way to install a single row IMS in a dual row engine or vice versa, or are the bearings sufficiently poke yoked that they will not install correctly?

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I believe there is a kit for that, however, why in the world would you want to replace a very durable long lasting dual row bearing with a single row? The dual row is the bearing to have. The single row bearing is the weakest link. There is a really small percentage of dual rows that have failed, and one could probably chalk it up to either lack of use or poor maintenance (oil changes).

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Mostly concerned with a shop putting in a single because thats what is in stock or because they ordered the wrong part.

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For the older design with the dual row bearing (MY 99-01?), only a dual row bearing will fit. The LN kit for those engines is a dual row. For the newer design with a single row (MY 02-05), there are single row replacements, like the older LN kit. There is also an LN Pro kit that replaces it with a dual row bearing that fits where the single row normally would. That is what I recommend getting if you have those model years. I think for 2001, it could have either bearing and it is important for the shop to get the correct one, but I don't think the wrong one will physically fit.

Surgery prep. They dropped the engine for separate reason, gave a good look though 3.6L from an 03 C2 the new bearing got greedy and added the IPD plenum, sway bars, spark plugs, half a dozen new seals, AOS unit, etc. Excited to get it back in proper condition with maybe a little better performance.

Atypical IMSB question. The urge to disassemble my bearing is really getting to me. Is it possible to remove the cages, take it apart, and then put it all back together again?

Not without damaging the seals How to disassemble a ball bearing - full LENGTH - YouTube

Hi All, Had my M96, 2002 C4S destroy itself, so rebuilding as we speak, Now not sure which IMS bearing to use, either the Porsche version from '06 onward or use the LN product? My local Porsche dealer is doing the rebuild (although we have done a LN upsize to 3.8!) So default is to use the Porsche option, but understand they too have a minor failure rate oh what to do.... Thanks for any thoughts

Just do the IMS Solution plain bearing and be done with IMSB for good. A few hundred bucks more is nothing compared to the rest of the rebuild.

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+1 on the IMS Solution...but if you decide to not go that route but with a replacement bearing, your dealer should warrant both the install and the Porsche part, not necessarily so if they install a non-Porsche bearing.

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Thanks for that. The seals are long gone so it's the cages I'm worried about and also being able to reassemble it

Picked up mine today post-IMS solution install. Got the warranty card & unfortunately couldn't keep the old one due to the warranty submission requirement. Eh well Thanks Jake/LN for making it available & doing the trainings, it's a great service to the community! John @ European Autowerks in Colorado was fantastic, great guy & sharp as a tack on the 996. Likely saved me from breaking a crankshaft (nixed lightweight flywheel idea).

Having it replaced as preventive maintenance. My 996 is an '03 C4 Cab with 38k on it. I've picked the LN single pro - unit which has two rows. I'll feel great about it and then, most likely, if I still have the car, have it done again, at about 80k miles.

Any updates on this ims after install? Says it's a permanent fix. http://www.ebay.com/itm/162035014539?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Yesterday we prepared to remove the IMS on the car in order to replace with an IMS update kit. What I think is strange is that my car is a 99 yet seams to have a flange for a single row IMS and not a dual row that supposedly come on all 1999 cars. Here's a picture. Today we will be removing the actual bearing. Is this a single or dual row?

That flange looks like the one that came out of my 2000 C4 tip cab, this week, and it is dual row. My car has 137k on the clock and I decided to have her serviced for the last of the 3 PM issues. I had the AOS done at 100k and the waterpump done at 125k. My Indy installed the LN upgrade. Some other WYAIT items like a RMS, chain tensioner and what not. Bill at EPE did the work and as usual I am delighted with the quality of service and fairness of fees.

The shadows in the pic are playing hell with my perception of it. Sometimes I look at it and the depth looks exactly like my dual row and other times it looks too deep.

Turns out my completly stock 1999 Carrera built in late 1998 has a single row IMS Bearing. I dont know how since supposedly all cars built from 1997 to 1999 had dual row but thats what we pulled out today.

Since i assumed i had a dual row bearing i bought a dual row update kit that is not the correct kit. THe supplier is sending me the single row update kit. Heres a picture comparing the single row we pulled out of the car with the dual row update kit bearing I received. Left is the update kit bearing and right is the single row we pulled out.

Looks like the engine has been replaced. What does the engine case # say M96/x?

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I'm going to look tomorrow. It didn't have n engine replacement in any of the records or the carfax. Where is the reference number located?

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Driver side right above the sump plate. Post #3 here https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ml#post7627272 Should say 96/xx. We just need to know the two digits xx.

Eagle eye Ahsai!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't get anything by this guy!

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I'm suprised no one bothered to point this out yet but it's quite obvious from the photos

Not to change the conversation, but does any know the size of internal snap ring used in the IMS kits? While installing an IMS kit the internal retaining ring broke. I've never broke a retaining ring with this compressor before, but I guess I compressed it a little too far. Hoping someone from LN or Pelican could chime in. I'm assuming its probably metric and possibly SAE?

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Anyone willing to shed some light? I didn't think this need a new thread, but this probably isn't seen by many people. I have already called LN, Pelican, and Vertex. No one has been able to either direct me where to purchase the snap ring or sell me one. Someones buying these things somewhere...

Where did you buy your bearing kit?

The kit was through mb motorsports, they are out of there shop for this week and next. I was suppose to be reinstalling this motor this weekend.

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In that case, I don't think LN and Pelican will be able to help. May have to wait for mbm.

See it's the same retaining ring regardless of who makes the kit. The groove in the shaft will only fit one size and thickness of ring. Any retaining ring from any kit that utilizes this groove will work. Even a factory ring will work.

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Yes, I understand that...but still does change what I said in my last post.

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Well I was just being hopeful that they would be able to help with a little bit of information on something that is not proprietary in anyway. Or sell me one. I had one of my old ims shafts mic'd by a machinist at my work and the retaining ring is not standard by any imperical or metric standards I could find.

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There is a sad thread around here where someone mixed and matched IMSB parts and it didn't end well for the poor guy that ended up buying the car. Might very well be the same ring, but waiting until you can talk to Martin is the only sensible answer here.

I did speak with them. They told me I can wait 2 weeks for them to ship it or source it on my own.

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But they didn't give you the info to source your own? My point is that this is something that is silly to risk. I get wanting to be back on the road ASAP, but it's one of those things that you are better off safe than sorry in my book.

Correct. I was assuming it was a readily available part with the right information. Maybe it's not. I guess I'll have to wait.

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Looks like my engine case says M96/01 Here's a picture. From what I can tell it could either be a replacement or not according to the engine number. Hard to see but it says M96 / 01

Very interesting! Back to the future... The IMS sprocket on the older 996's should look like this, double bicycle chain like. I think we need Jake here. Btw, whats all the black slimy stuff?

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Yes it's strange. My sprocket doesn't look like that. It's a single chain style sprocket. Good thing is that we're moving forward with the rebuild. All that black slimy stuff was the nasty gunk that was inside my engine when we opened it up. It's all clean now.

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It's more than the IMS. It also needs a matching crank! Wonder what the story behind. Someone swapped in a newer style crank and ims? You need to find where they hid the flux capacitor

The M96.01 can have either the duplex style chain, or the internal tooth type chain. The change between these occurred part way through the M96.01 manufacturing. Yes, you will need the correct crank, and IMS. The internal tooth type IMS assemblies are the hardest to find. Most were equipped with single row bearings, and have since died. As far as the IMS snap rings, they are not all the same. The units that are offered with LN kits are manufactured specifically for those kits. Always source your support pieces from the provider of the kit, you never want to mix and match.

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Oh I see. Learned something new. I always thought the internal tooth type IMS wasn't introduced till later.

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I'm a little confused. Does this mean my crank is the wrong type? When we initially pulled the engine it looked like it had never been opened or separated from the transmission. Apparently the crank I have works since everything seams to be moving forward smoothly with the rebuild kit I bought and the heads redone. I had the heads redone by a Formula 1 engine builder. Still puzzles me how my car has this engine. The car looks in excellent shape and well taken care off. Who knows what the previous owners did. The service records I have never mention the IMS being done or any engine rebuild.

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No, I think you are fine. The point was the crank of the internal chain type is different than the crank of the duplex chain type. Your engine ran before so obviously your crank is correct for your ims.

I am hoping for some advice; frequent reader of these but first question. when i bought my 2002 996 c4 cab 3+ years ago with 44k miles(now 68kmiles), my research indicated that the 3.6l engine had lower failure than the earlier 3.4, this doesnt seem to be the case. fortunately the car is still going strong. i have replaced a number of parts(exhaust, brakes, top mounts, etc) but the RMS has gone and about to get it replaced, and the clutch. I asked for a quote from my indy that has done the recent work, and i noticed the ims upgrade bearing was missing, it just had a new IMS cover + installed. So i phoned and asked if there was a mistake and the answer was we dont do the IMS mod. we leave it alone. So i pushed a bit more, and they said they just dont do it and they suggest keeping it original. So question is, do i need a new Indy that will do it, or is the IMS replacement just not done to most cars?

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Unfortunately you are delving into personal opinion here and it will come down to doing what you feel will give you the most peace. The small single row bearing found in the original 3.6l motors indeed has a higher failure rate than the older dual row that was found in the early 3.4l motors, but it's still not a certainty by any stretch. There are a couple of 200k+ mile cars running around this forum on their original single row bearing. Unfortunately the IMSB also gets the blame for failures when it was just a victim (people just see metal in the oil or pull the transmission and find a trashed bearing and blame it as the source without looking further). If it were me and I had a single row (I thought I did, but turned out to be a dual), then I would have had it done with the clutch. You're in there, so you might as well is my view. Now that your's has been buttoned back up, it becomes trickier as you have to pay for the same labor all over again (removing the transmission). If you are worried about it though, get it done to take it off your mind. The extra labor is worth the lack of stress. I would say, however, that if you get it done, find another shop. Your guy seems adverse to doing it which suggests that has doesn't have much experience (maybe with the m96 at all?). As I understand it the job isn't difficult, but it is easy to screw up and make a royal mess. He also isn't likely to go through the process of LNE's pre-qual and that process has more to do with what happens to your motor than the bearing change itself. At this point I don't know if I would stress over the bearing or not in your shoes, but I'd definitely start looking for a new Indy that is more familiar with the M96.

Thanks GNAT, not actually done the work yet, was just asking for a quote. so i will look for a new indy that will do the IMS change. appreciate the advise.

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I'd lean towards getting the IMS bearing replaced as PM. Labor for RMS and clutch should be the same as for RMS, clutch and IMSB.

I am guessing that your Indy hasn't ever replaced one and does not want to buy the proper tools to do it with. LN website offers 8 or 10 certified installers all over the country. One should be near you.

Found out my 03 C2 is actually on its 3rd IMS bearing with the original engine sans rebuild. What do I win?

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The Lottery. Go play it. NOW!

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That's a generous offer buuuuut I'm content with my current level of taxation If the lotto prize was, say.... six nickies I might take you up on that

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A 2-week vacation? Oh, wait, you already won that prize.

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haha, touche funny thing is my IMSS did require 2 weekends in Central CO. Upon returning to SLC I noticed a shop 4 miles from my house was added as a certified shop. Kinda funny. I love Colorado though, we drove the 996 through the CO national monument, visited a distillery, vineyards, etc. Not to mention monstering through the desert with a singing m96 behind us!

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Can't believe that there are no certified installers in the NY, NJ or Ct. area with all the Porsches around here.

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We had one Certified Installer in NJ. They failed to exercise the proper judgment on one occasion, and retrofitted an engine that had a failing original bearing. The same day that LN received their bearing registration, with the failing bearing included, I pulled their Certification status. Pure stupidity was executed on that one. There's no margin of error for these installers. One goof, and they are done. Its tough to attain the Certification, and even tougher to retain it. These shops can't just Retrofit every car that comes in their doors, like other shops continue to do. The right installer hasn't come our way yet from that region.

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Jake, Curious...What was done for the customer after this was discovered?

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I believe the shop got the car back at their location and carried out some oil flushes. Other than that, I have no idea. Any issue would ha e been between the shop and the owner, and no warranty claims were ever made, so it must have worked out ok. That was over 3 years ago.

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I believe there's a certified installer in Allentown, PA.

IMG_5990.jpg

^ that was funny until a month ago....

Hartech IMS thread I read this http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257 pretty interesting, has anyone done this with any level of success in the US ?

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I read a few posts there but it's not clear to me what "this" you're referring to. DOF?

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If you are referring to removal of the outer IMS Bearing seal on the original bearing, then yes, this isn't new and originated here in the USA. In the old days, before I developed the IMS Retrofit procedure the factory and everyone else said the IMS Bearing was non- removable. It was said to be impossible. One of the very early things we started doing to extend the lives of original bearings during this initial period was to remove the seal, as mentioned in the thread you referenced. It's all we could do with the engine assembled, at the time. It's also the reason why the LN Engineering Retrofit bearings have no seal, and never have. Now, this does help; but, the major issue with doing only this today is all the years of wear that the Bearing has seen before pulling the seal. Also, since the major issue effecting these bearings is load. Increasing lubrication may help keep the bearing cooler, but load isn't addressed. The reason why M97 bearings have proven not to fail is because they are 26% larger in diameter and can carry more load. Please don't confuse The IMS Solution with a "DOF" system. Look up US Patent 9,416,697 and see who holds the Patent to remote oil delivery (by any means) to the IMS region. FYI

what is the difference in load between the early Classic Single Row and OEM ? I had the CSR installed just over 2 years ago, and it is an open seal design, my OEM sits (like others) as a paperweight, completely void of grease Spin on oil filter adapter and the recommended NAPA filter I changed the oil 1,700 miles after the retrofit ( done@ 27,000) and that filter was perfectly clean (still stored) and changed the filter again at 31,600 when I installed the filter adapter, again perfectly clean and the UOA with oil change was excellent

This is one for Charles Navarro. He'll be here shortly.

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The Classic Single Row uses a ceramic hybrid 6204 bearing. Load capacity is a function of the bearing size, number of *****, diameter of the *****, etc., but if you compare any 6204 to another, load capacity is the same. The sintered silicon nitride ***** used in all IMS Retrofit kits have reduced mass, reduced friction, and reduced wear compared to conventional 52100-steel ball bearings. Race material between a conventional steel ball bearing and the ceramic hybrid is the same - both utilize 52100 bearing steel. The Single Row Pro, by adding a second row of *****, doubles the load capacity. Until Jake figured out a method to retain and tool to install a dual row bearing into a single row shaft, a classic single row IMS Retrofit OR IMS Solution were the only options available. The reason why the factory dual row bearing has such a lower reported rate of failure is because it has double the load capacity of the later single row bearing used. By using an open bearing, the IMS bearing is exposed to an oil bath. Remember, the M96/M97 engine is wet sump, not dry sump! Using a quality oil, having a low temperature thermostat, and adding extra cooling via larger radiators or external oil cooler to the engine, or adding extra oil capacity are all things that can directly affect bearing and engine life.

Thanks Charles, Jake just curious if there were any long term results from M96's with the just the seal pulled They have quite a different attitude across the pond I'm quite happy with the CSR and spin on adaptor

As someone about to take delivery of an '02 C4S, I want to thank you all for taking the time to provide the content in this thread. I don't want to spend 50%+ of the car I'm buying on rebuilding a motor, so it appears I'll be having the IMS Solution installed. Jake, you seem to have one installer in/around Toronto - Liam Kelly & Keltech Performance. I've never heard of his shop. He's definitely not one of the 3-5 go-to shops in the Canadian section of this forum. Have you sold him many of these kits?

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The IMS Retrofit isn't about how many you've done. Practice often doesn't make perfect in regard to this practice. If every Installer was as careful as they were on their very first Retrofit, things would be much better. It's a fact that the more jobs that a shop does, the faster they try to do the work. This is because of the screwed up way that technicians are paid, more than anything. The IMSR ends up being treated like a brake job, and that is bad news. I invited Liam to the program because he was very attentive in classes that he attended here, and his way of doing things are a lot like mine. The popularity of a shop doesn'timpress me, and also doesn't mean that they do good work. In fact I've had attendees in classes from big name shops, and they were completely lost. By the same token I've had attendees that were from their own one man shop, that no one has ever heard of, and they kick ***. These are the guys that deserve to be invited to shine through our program in most cases. They don't rush, they follow procedure. That said, I have no idea how many kits that Liam has bought, since all Installers buy their products from a distributor, and I don't sell anyone, anything.

Speaking with an Indy, he said he didn't recommend the Solution in anything other than a race car. Said the Solution requires higher revs to keep the bearing properly lubricated.

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Sounds like an expert. Not. Find a new Indy. What he doesn't know is the development of the IMS Solution included a test engine that ran over 400 hours at idle speed. At times I would use an in line valve, with pressure gauge fitted to shut the oil partially off to the IMS solution. I have ran the unit with as little as 2PSI oil pressure, and after a 50 hour study the unit had no more visual, or measurable wear than it did previously. During these tests ambient temps were in the 90s and the engine ran day and night without being shut off, sitting in a test car in the middle of our field, just in case it was to catch fire during the night. Coolant temps were over 240 the entire times, oil temps were 280 degrees plus, and the car would consume 20 gallons of fuel to run for 24 hours, non stop. We didn't even shut it down to refuel it! After the test the car rolled back onto the dyno, and was punished even more Hear this: If the Indy was correct the main and Rod bearings in your engine would fail unless the engine was used as a "race engine". Why? This is simple, they are 3-5X bigger than the IMS Solution journal diameter, and have an even greater necessity for oil volume and pressure than the Solution. This is further proven by the fact that the IMS solution receives its oil directly from the spin on filter adaptor, putting it FIRST in line for oil in the entire primary oil system. That's first before any other dynamic component inside the entire engine. This is part of the novel art that allows the IMS Solution to be Double Patented. This is THE highest oil pressure found in the entire engine, as it is closest to the oil pump, and offers "just filtered oil" in the highest quantities possible. This Indy could not be more incorrect. It's clear that he didn't want to do any extra work to fit the IMS Solution over a standard Retrofit and that he was more concerned with the clock than outfitting the engine in the best manner possible. Please PM me the name and number of the shop, and the tech that told you this. He deserves to hear a few sweet things whispered in his ear. I hate misinformation and people that spew it, when they are clearly, and completely, lost. I'm send him a video of an IMS Solution equipped engine running with NO oil line attached, both at idle and at 6,000 RPM. The video is from under the car, and oil is leaking out of the IMS Solution feed port, so no way it's fake! People...........

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Thanks! 👍

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I won't give you their name but can only tell you that they were recommended by the local Porsche dealer to perform an IMS upgrade. Apparently they do a lot of race prep.

I went through this same discussion, mostly with myself, I decided the BEST option is the IMS Solution but the cost was just too much for me from an approved installer. So I went with the LNE ceramic bearing replacement. Not as permanent for sure but should las the life of the car based on my expectations for how long I will keep it. I totally respect Jake, his invention and his knowledge of these cars and engines. If my car was 10 years newer I would have an IMS Solution in place.

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Pretty sound logic . You enjoying your Carrera? I've come to channel any anxiety about the engine into simply reading build threads and trying to learn more about the idiosyncrasies of the engines so when the time comes I can make an informed decision. Maybe even attend a rebuild class and buy a spare motor to learn on. For me the joy of it is encompassing not just the driving experience and refurbishing my own car but learning about the mechanical stuff that used to intimidate me. It's a cool piece of machinery!

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I'm loving the Carrera. I made the right choice, invested (I think wisely) in a few things like all new fluids, new tires, the IMS bearing replaced, a new audio system with modern conveniences like Nav and Apple CarPlay, probably $12000 in all plus the car so maybe $35000 invested and have a car that is everything I imagined for most of my life reading about Porsche 911's in magazines and never believing I would own one some day.

Great to hear, we're on similar journeys it seems. I really like Z cars and Vettes, but the 996 is just a little more enjoyable for all around driving. I did a lot more fun driving this summer in the 996 than last year in the 350z (9,000 miles vs. 3,500). That audio unit sounds like a nice addition, cheers.

We really love the Vette but much like many new cars, it's almost too antiseptic. I grew up in the 60's and 70's where our involvement in driving was important. It's all I can do to try and stop my kids from texting when they are driving!! But some conveniences are good, like bluetooth for the phone so I went with a Pioneer head unit and some new door speakers. Didn't do a sub because there's really no good place to put one in these cars and the sound is good enough for top down driving. Myh brother has a 350Z and absolutely love it. So good choice there.

[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations;13793120]Sounds like an expert. Not. Find a new Indy. What he doesn't know is the development of the IMS Solution included a test engine that ran over 400 hours at idle speed. At times I would use an in line valve, with pressure gauge fitted to shut the oil partially off to the IMS solution. I have ran the unit with as little as 2PSI oil pressure, and after a 50 hour study the unit had no more visual, or measurable wear than it did previously. During these tests ambient temps were in the 90s and the engine ran day and night without being shut off, sitting in a test car in the middle of our field, just in case it was to catch fire during the night. Coolant temps were over 240 the entire times, oil temps were 280 degrees plus, and the car would consume 20 gallons of fuel to run for 24 hours, non stop. We didn't even shut it down to refuel it! After the test the car rolled back onto the dyno, and was punished even more Hear this: If the Indy was correct the main and Rod bearings in your engine would fail unless the engine was used as a "race engine". Why? This is simple, they are 3-5X bigger than the IMS Solution journal diameter, and have an even greater necessity for oil volume and pressure than the Solution. This is further proven by the fact that the IMS solution receives its oil directly from the spin on filter adaptor, putting it FIRST in line for oil in the entire primary oil system. That's first before any other dynamic component inside the entire engine. This is part of the novel art that allows the IMS Solution to be Double Patented. This is THE highest oil pressure found in the entire engine, as it is closest to the oil pump, and offers "just filtered oil" in the highest quantities possible. This Indy could not be more incorrect. It's clear that he didn't want to do any extra work to fit the IMS Solution over a standard Retrofit and that he was more concerned with the clock than outfitting the engine in the best manner possible. Please PM me the name and number of the shop, and the tech that told you this. He deserves to hear a few sweet things whispered in his ear. I hate misinformation and people that spew it, when they are clearly, and completely, lost. I'm send him a video of an IMS Solution equipped engine running with NO oil line attached, both at idle and at 6,000 RPM. The video is from under the car, and oil is leaking out of the IMS Solution feed port, so no way it's fake! People...........[/QUOTe Jack - You say that you are a local certified installer for anybody on the east coast. How would you get a car from New York to your shop in Georgia and what would be the cost?

The same way that we land cars from much further away. This week we are performing an IMS Solution on two cars, and one is from Canada. We ship over 100 Porsches per year to and from our facilities, and we are shipping brokers, so we can do this work as a free service to the customer. This is no big deal, Jud, my General Manager spends most of his time shipping Porsches. Shipping costs averages 75 cents per mile, so just Google the distance from wherever you are, to 30528 which is our zip code. At times Jud can negotiate with our shippers to 55-65 cents per mile, but thats dependent upon season, weather, fuel costs, and etc. We shipped five cars last week, two this week, and have three ready go next week. Its a blessing when someone local works with us, but it seldom, seldom occurs.

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I wish Hawaii had a certified installer...

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To date we've not had any class attendees from Hawaii that could be invited to the program. Thats the first step.

Interesting conversation in a couple of other threads on earl Mk.1 996 cars with double bearing. If it has run sofar the conversation goes, don't touch it and leave it be. With all I have read sofar my conclusion has been, also for a double bearing, that it makes sense if you change the clutch to also change the bearing. Since the car I purchased did not have the bearing replaced during the clutch change 30k miles ago I decided (since I have EVERY intend to keep the car for many years to come) to replace now the IMS to a ceramic LN double bearing, replace clutch, RMS and AOS. Car has ran 90k miles sofar. Next on planning would be waterpump, vario-cam wear pads and 4th/5th timing chains (no intelligence there from my side, just following the cue from Jack Raby (thank you Sir!!)). Anyway, back to IMS double row bearing....what is nowadays the latest recommendation? Volkert

Curious about new bearing installation...either ball bearing or the Solution flat style...does putting these things in the freezer for however amount of time really aid in installation? Lastly, how much tapping is really required to seat the bearing. Does this require some super amount of force or merely tapping into place. Asking as a new person interested in the repair process. Thanks! Chris

Freezing really helps and it goes in rather easily with a dead blow hammer per the instructions.

Thanks for the response Jim...

Ever wondered what a IMS failure sounds like? Watch this ... You Tube

I am looking on a 996. The dealer who serviced the car says that they never recommend IMS bearing because they are a Porsche dealer, and that would only be something that aftermarket does, so that is why this car never received that fix. The car has 105k miles, and the clutch has already been done about 2 years ago. Should I worry about the IMS and change it as preventative?

I would when the clutch is due again. Frequent oil changes in the mean time coupled with starting an oil analysis, filter and drain plug mags. Others might recommend just driving it like you stole it.

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The choice to replace the bearing is all your own. I will add that we support dozens of Porsche dealerships worldwide that install IMS Retrofit and IMS Solution products, however, there are many dealerships that will not acknowledge there is a problem and even if they do, they won't carry out the procedure. That said, some of the first early adopters were in fact Porsche dealerships because they had intimate knowledge of the severity of this problem.

Just did my 2001 986s with 40k miles using LN Single Row Pro. Bearing was fine but full of engine oil. Did RMS also (leaking badly). Followed the LN instructions which are good but I learned a few things along the way that are a bit unclear or not in the docs. If anyone needs to rent the LN Faultless/IMS Pro tools and Factory RMS installer tool - I now have those. PM me.

Cbracerx: Thanks for the pics. Gosh those LNE tools are works of art. Please let LN Engineering know of the additional tips on installation. They would be interested to know (and so would we!).

Cbracerx; Which bearing replacement did you get/use?

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Hmmmm... never mind 🙄 That's what I get for skipping to the end...

Why are so many sellers of 996.2's adamant that their car is unaffected or insistent that the LN bearing will also fail? This is extremely disconcerting now that I am seriously searching for a 996.2...

If you take our poll results you see that 90% of current owners have not had issues with IMS. If you read the material available consensus is that late 996.1 and the 996.2 cars with a small single row IMS bearing seem to have more issues then earlier cars. The LN story? I think an internet hoax. volkert

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Internet scare tactics to get your $ nothing more. This is so overblown it is ridiculous. Sure some fail no doubt, how many fail because of guys screwing with them? IMO leave it be.

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I bought a 996.2 last year & put a Solution in. My engine may grenade this afternoon, but it sure as hell won't be the IMS that causes it. Buy car eliminate IMS risk Move on with life Simple is better. But if you must know the details.. 996.2s have awful bearings - the single row OEM bearing is *the* worst bearing Porsche ever made for an IMS. This is empirical fact and verifiable in the class action suit against Porsche. Many single row bearings have failed and many will fail in the future. Many 996.2 owners subscribe to half-assed theories like "it would have failed by now" "LN bearings fail too!" etc. It's demonstrably false that any degree of 'age' or use in mileage materially reduces or eliminates bearing failure risk. But some people like to use awful logic to guide their major life decisions. This is likely why the divorce rate is so high - people are generally idiots.

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Moreover, people generally do not have deep knowledge of reliability or survival analysis... for the same reason, the divorce rate is so high ;-) However, hearing that sellers claim "LN bearings fail too" or "would have failed by now" as plain silly logic, affirms that I am not, at least, certifiably crazy. I come from 10 years of S54 ownership, and knew the motor's ups and downs very intimately, now that I am without my E46, its time to look for new toys...hence the 996.2 I suppose the best strategy is to offer cash, and walk if the owner does not want to budge on the topic of a still-stock IMS bearing. The hunt continues!

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It is refreshing to hear this logic. I feel less crazy in my search for a 996.2....

car has 112K miles now, bought in January with 108,700. IMS seal and RMS were both replaced by the original owner and even had the tranny rebuilt around 78K miles. NO IMS replacement. I planned to wait until I needed a clutch, but my ex brother in law's 01 boxster just died last week from the IMS with 100k miles on it. My timeline has been moved up. Quote from a shop in Phoenix who has done many IMS replacements for all the work mentioned in the title was $3300. Seems about right doesn't it?

Yes, give or take a few. Stop driving it and Get it done ASAP!

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The mechanic I spoke to said he was actually more concerned that I might have my original water pump still then he was about the IMS.

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That price is great, but I can almost assure you that does not include a new flywheel if you need one. Figure $700 more. If it does, good on you. Also little things like oil cooler O rings, hoses, engine mounts, for example, things you do while in there, can slowly drive up the cost. On my '99 C2 cab. I had the IMS, AOS, RMS, clutch w/flywheel, and OC o-rings done for $4,000.00 ($4,300 out the door, tax and misc. etc.) Because I needed a new fly wheel I skipped the water pump and plan on doing it myself. Had I opted for water pump also, bill would have been $5,000.00 plus tax & misc.

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You are correct my friend. No flywheel in that price and I'm not sure even on taxes at this point. We did talk about the flywheel and he said more like $1200 for it, but he sounded confident I wouldn't need it given the cars history. Yikes if I do.. Here's to hoping it isn't needed. Did the motor mounts awhile back...a job I was comfortable tackling myself. Cheers

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you up guys are scaring me. I just got mine 1 month now. I have 96k miles. I planned to do oil analysis and see if it's needed, waiting for a clutch change, but now, I am thinking I might try to have it done. Does anyone habe have a good parts list?

Naked and Afraid while driving a 996 might be a new T-Shirt.

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LOL! Nice

On the IMS poll 996 failures now stand at 10.03% and seems to be dropping while on the 997 forum it is now at 6.39% and I have the impression it is going up. That number is quite high considering (I guess) about half of 997's have a DFI engine.... I guess 997 owners need a shirt too..

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That poll is incredibly scientific...not to mention statistically accurate. The better poll would be of all 996/997 owners who have ever heard of an IMSB....

I know. But they are both un-scientific....

Just spoke to Scott up at Mcilvain motors who is buttoning up my IMS replacement right now. Said the bearing looks great at 112,700 miles. I will sleep better knowing that and having the LN bearing in the car now. Will post pics when I get them from him. Could pick it up tomorrow, but do to travel plans I'll get it Monday.

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Do you know which 977 year is the safest from IMS failure?

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The early 997 Carrera (2005) has basicly the same IMS design as the later Mk.1 & all Mk.2 996 models (as of 2000) with a small IMS bearing. Those have the highest failure rate (8-10%?). The good thing this has been addressed by various maintenance or retrofit solutions which will leave you with a pretty much bulletproof solution(at least for the IMS failure). The 997 S models and later Carreras (2006) have a bigger IMS bearing (similar load factor as the dualrow IMS bearings in earliest (1997-2000) 996 cars), however they can still fail (<1%?). There is no maintenance solution available, except removing the bearing seal to allow engine oil to lubricate the bearing. The 997 Mk.2 (MY2009, available since August 2008) has the new DFI engine which does not have an IMS anymore. Any 996/997 GT model or Turbo has a different engine with a different IMS bearing design which has no IMS related issues.

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Will Mcilvain Motors send the original bearing back to LNE and register the new one?

Hi - I recently had an oil change done on my 2000 Carrera. 54K miles. Here's some particulate that came out from the oil filter. Have not run a magnet over the particulate yet. Is this an IMS or an RMS issue starting to rear its head? regards,

These particles look like they are hard plastic? From what I've read it could be from the chain tensioner? Not sure if you should be alarm by this.

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I was given the bearing today when I picked up the car. Sticker on the door now. I was not planning to send it in. I posted some pics in a new thread

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I think you need to send it in for any warranty on the new bearing.

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Ah, that makes sense. I already pried the seal off, but that should be ok.

Hi, I recently performed an oil change on my 2000 Carrera, 54K miles. Here's some of the particulate from the oil filter. Have not run a magnet over these to see if this is metal. Am i looking at IMS / RMS issues?

RMS (Read Main Seal) is a seal, so I don't see how residue of this would end up in your oil. You would notice leaking oil from the engine. The bits look like flakes so could be from the plastic chain tensioner (which is normal); or a sealant for some cover or maybe some other bit grinded by an oil pump. No way to tell from a picture. There are a lot of mechanics going on in the engine, there is much more then IMS that can go wrong. Take it to a good mechanic next time and maybe run an oil analysis (after 3-4k).

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Water pump adds $1000? I'd have thought it would be around $200 for the pump and not a great deal of labor (given that engine is already out).

I am doing my IMS and I am going with the LN ceramic bearing. I am now trying to source my other parts. Where do you guys buy your RMS from? What is the part number? Where do you guys buy your clutch kit from? What is the part number? Is there any other clutch part that needs to be changed not included in the clutch kit?

Get the new upgraded RMS here - #5 http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=102-00 Get #17, 18, 19 - new dual mass flywheel, bolts and bushing Get all of the clutch parts here http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=301-00 I stick with OE parts because I'm just that way.

1999 Carrera here, 45K miles. No issues but I just had the IMS bearing replaced with the LN and also had the RMS done and water pump and AOS. Mechanic says the old IMS looked fine. I will see for myself when I pick it up Monday.

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Any clutch work done while in there?

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I'm sorry, I should have said it is a tip. Original bearing was in excellent shape.

So just to clarify - the current going rate is about $4,000-5000 depending on what you include in the service? I am looking at a 2000 C4 cab with 61K miles which had a new refurbished Porsche engine swapped in 12K miles ago and thinking to do the service IF I decide to purchase the car. I had 6 other Porsche before, and as always I have been suggested not the buy a 996 (same happened for my 1990 C2 which i owned for 14 years...)

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I think you really need to investigate a bit more. If the engine was refurbished, what was done to it? Maybe it has the larger single bearing (997 style) and you don�t have to mess with it. Of course if you do �everything� you go to these numbers. Just the IMSB would set you back around 2k I guess.

I put in a LN Engineering IMS bearing retrofit in my 2002 996 along with the RMS. The IMS failed after about 2000 miles. LN Engineering would not even throw me a bone such as replacing the $900 part-they told me it was only warranted for 3 months and they told me to pound sand. I also got a similar response from the shop in Northern Virginia that suggested the IMS replacement. I wish I had just left well enough alone.

Vicomel, I’m sorry to hear of your problem. I also had a local Porsche Indy do my RMS with an LN replacement. COmpletely on my request, the car was running fine but with all the talk of potential problems I decided to go for it. I have put 6000 miles on since and the engine runs sweeter than ever. That said, I wonder if the issue was the shop and the installation rather than the bearing itself. Of course it could be the bearing but what do you know of the shop? For example, the shop I used services only Porsches and they also race them on weekends. The owner talks on behalf of the local PCA chapter so his and his crew’s knowledge of these cars is enormous. Hopefully the shop would take a little responsibility and at the least take it apart and see what failed. Then a determination can be made as to the problem and what to do moving forward. Good Luck.

the shop was highly reputable similar to the shop you use. I had the engine rebuilt and then sold the 996 and got a 997 911T with the Metzger engine so life is good.

I like the way you roll! Must be a blast to drive. Enjoy that TT!!

Thanks guys!

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I review all claims filed with LN Engineering after the information has been collected from the customer. Can you provide your last 6 of the vin and when you contacted us (PM is fine), along with your name and email address. It would also be helpful if I knew what shop did the work and any other pertinent information you could provide. I would like to look into this further for you. The Classic Single Row carries a 30 day warranty, but the Single Row Pro and Classic Dual carry a longer 2 yr warranty. There is no product with a 90 day warranty and even if the IMS is not under warranty, we always offer to help out either with a discount on products or services and at the bare minimum, we will replace the IMS shaft and bearing if the customer is having the engine rebuilt, again, as goodwill and not because of any stated warranty. You would not have been told to "pound sand." That is not what we do. I will state the obvious that if the job was not registered or properly qualified, there is no warranty. That is clearly stated on all documentation and with the registration card provided. Ultimately if the shop did not properly qualify or register the install and they gave you a written warranty, it's on them to stand behind that warranty.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

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I doubt he'll even respond to Charles' questions since he doesn't own the 996 any longer. Not sure why he chose to comment other than he felt a need to troll. Maybe he'll realize his TT has a Mezger engine

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Can you please explain this reply in more layman's terms? I'm currently considering a 996 and wondering what years are better to look for. I'm confused about which IMS design has the highest incident of failure. While I'm at it, I don't understand why some 1999's have yellow fried eggs (and tail lights) and some have clear lenses. I'm a blank sheet of "car shopping" paper. Draw on me! TIA, Adam

Well, I was finally persuaded to spill the beans about my feelings on the IMS topic. PCA spent several days at my Training facility this week to shoot a series of videos about IMS bearings, and issues. These will be 15-20 minutes in duration, and expect 5-6 of them to be released a few weeks apart. This series NEVER mentions a brand of a product at all, no company names are mentioned, and no marketing.. It’s all about : -What the IMS is, and where it is in the engine -The role it plays in the engine -How to mitigate the chances of IMS Bearing failure without performing a retrofif -Which engine’s are most susceptible to failure and why -Typical collateral damages that occur to the remainder of the engine after the IMSB fails -Various technologies that will address IMSB failure -IMS Retrofit tools, and the Retrofit procedure in summary I’ll probably regret doing this, like I always regret opening my mouth. Heres a couple of sneak peeks:

Very nice, Jake! I recognize the engine rebuild school. Let us know when the videos will be available. Look forward to watching them.

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The first of 5 (maybe 6) segments should be live in a couple of weeks on the PCA youtube channel. Watch your "E- Brake" newsletter from PCA for the releases.

One of the important things in life is to have knowledge. One of the most important things to do in life is to share knowledge. Thanks Jake!

Thank you Jake Raby! I will not regret you opening up and I sure hope you won't

I'll have to say, it's a beautiful location to have a (huge) workshop. Not in the middle of a dodgy-looking industrial area. So jealous.

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I can�t work in an area that�s congested. Here�s the training compound where we shot the videos, and where I hold my classes.

I hope to be there in the near future...

well despite all the "scary" posts you guys were not able to scare me off...looks like (after a good thorough PPI) I am about to become a happy 996 owner.

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You're a brave soul. Make sure to start a thread with pictures!

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Bravo!! Was my scariest decision a year ago but after the first year, I cannot imagine not driving her as much as weather (snow) permits. Yup, I drive her in the rain. I�ve been assured that she won�t melt.

Mine has been great as well, I just figured doing the IMSB into the price when I bought it. Debatable that it was necessary since its a 99 double bearing but I feel better anyway..

So how detailed would the Porsche dealer have documented an IMS retrofit back in 2007 in a Carfax report while the 2004 996 was still under warranty? The Carfax reports, "transmission removed and replaced" and then, "front crankshaft oil seal replaced." If the transmission was removed, wouldn't that imply that the "rear" oil seal was replaced? Any implication for the IMS in this reporting?

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Well it is my 7th Porsche (including a 2004 GT3) and teh PPI showed great compression and leak down. Picked her up this am from teh shop and drives like a champ. Nice track/AX upgrades and hardtop (it is a C4 Cab).

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This is great... The confusion comes from the fact that the seal on the "front" of the engine is called the "rear main seal" (the transmission is connected to the "front" of the engine i.e. the side of the engine closest to the front of the car). Semantics...the beauty of owning a rear engine car. I would refrain from "implying" anything regarding the IMSB - if it doesn't specifically say it was changed - it wasn't. You should also have the serial # sticker somewhere on the car if it was changed.

Has anybody used the 9Products IMS eternal fix?

Is the Ims lubrificated by the engine oil or by a difrent lubrificant?

You can install it with or without a direct feed Oiler.

With direct oil feed from the oil filter, what pathway does the oil take after it feeds the bearing?

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You are confused. You are falling prey to the marketing of a copycat that wants his product to appear to do the same thing as the IMS Solution. The pressurized oil feed from the Spin On Filter Adaptor is part of the IMS Solution Patent. We also have a second Patent that covers oil being fed from ANY port on the engine, to the IMS region. That being said, the oil delivered by the "DOF" is an uncontrolled "spray" of oil that is sprayed against the dynamic components of a stock or any other ball bearing used to support the IMS assembly.This oil is aereated, then delivered back to the sump in an uncontrolled fashion. The IMS Solution's oil is delivered in a controlled manner, and is never sprayed against a component. The IMS Solution flange internally routes the oil to the radial and longitudinal surfaces of the IMS, to control loads in BOTH directions. This oil is never aerated, and once it is used it is delivered back to the oil sump in the same manner that the waste oil from the main bearings is delivered. This means that aeration isn't an issue, and that the IMS Solution dictates the flow of oil that it needs based upon RPM, and load. Uncontrolled oil is never an issue, and to ensure that is the case, a plug is permanently inserted into the IMS shaft inner diameter. There's only one IMS Solution, and nothing else works the same way.... Contrary to what the copycats may try to market into what you read.

So, the oil comes down the hose/tube from the oil filter, squirts under pump pressure on both rows of bearings in those early 996 cars with dual-row, then runs down the crack (where the snap ring will fall if you're not careful when dis-assembling) to the sump, where it's sucked up and recycled by the pump? And, you corked the intermediate shaft tube so oil wouldn't collect there behind the bearing? I'm not confused, I'm just asking.

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If you think the IMS Solution has �two rows of bearings�, you are certainly confused...

Just watched the PCNA Spotlight video on the IMS with Jake. I never personally met Jake but seeing him talk live changes my perspective of him completely. It’s why Facebook and Twitter are so dangerous, you never see how the person is talking and can “read between the lines”. I now have a much better understanding of the IMS and am looking forward to seeing future videos explaining the differences in upgrades and solutions.

Yeah... This has totally botched my reputation. Now people think I'm a nice guy! It took me years to get the ******* reputation. Seriously.... I write very directly. I don't sugar coat things, or toss in a bunch of adjectives. I say what I think, and keep it to the point. Glad you enjoyed the vide. That said, doing that video required extreme discipline. The content is 100% memorized, and burned into my brain, but delivery in a non- biased way was extremely difficult. I am not a team player, and I generally only care about what I have developed. Tossing that aside was not easy. Typically I don;t care about method of delivery, and what people think about that, I am only focused on burning the points into their heads. Thats why my classroom is such a unique, and powerful place!

You did that very effectively and I commend you for staying on point. Once you move on to actual replacements then I feel it would be AOK to see the old Jake saying it as you see it. You are a real asset to this site and to 911 owners in general. Sometimes we all need a little tough love. I did not go with your product the first time but I am on a clock and a year before they say I’m due I will be in touch for a permanent solution on this item. By then we’ll see what else to do but I am enjoying my car as my DD in summer and using her as a cruiser rather than the track. Thanks again.

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The whole series has been recorded already. I stayed the same way throughout. My personal opinion was NEVER stated, only facts that could be supported in some way. I knew better than to say what I feel, with the bias that it carries. I said less about the things I've developed than anything else. I never even claimed the IMS Solution as my own. PCA also did not tell me what to say, and they laid down no rules. What I said was what I had to say, knowing what I know about modern humans, and bull****.

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Come on, no one trolls these sites 😉. Yes I feel what you�re saying. I have a rule at my office that we speak on the phone whenever possible and not text because so many read what�s not there.

I am purchasing a 15 year old 2002 Boxster S with 14,000 miles. Thoughts about the IMS and replacing it? Thanks

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The thought is how quickly can you schedule the work? 🤔 Cheap insurance. Sounds like a nice car. Post pics. Just for my own edification, mind if I ask how much?

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My 02 911 had 113,000 when I had my IMS replaced. Very good service history and zero track days...owned by and older women who took great care of it. The bearing was in good visual shape, seals, bearing surface etc. There was no more grease inside, only oil however. On the other hand my brother in law had a 01, or 03 boxster whose IMS blew at 99,000 miles so you just never know. Not sure of its history...Worth having it replaced if you plan to keep the car.

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I would recommend you replace the bearing. In deciding if it is a good idea to replace the bearing or not, you have to perform a cost benefit analysis. For me, my 911 engine is SUPER expensive, on the order of $20k. On a base model Boxster, you can pick up a engine for $4-5k, so I probably would be okay taking the gamble on a base model Boxster. On a Boxster S, the engine is probably a little more. The problem you are going to run into is that you probably will never find another Boxster S engine with 14k Miles, and if you do happen to get lucky, I imagine the price would be astronomical. I am sure you paid a hefty premium to buy this car with such low miles. As such, I think the best move would be to replace the bearing, on the cost of about $2600-3000 and have the peace of mind for 70k Miles. I am replacing my bearing in my 911 with 96k Miles. My car is in the shop now, and my mechanic should get to it this week. This should give me peace of mind for another 70k Miles. If I do keep the car more than 70k Miles additional miles, reaching 166k Miles, I do not plan to replace the bearing a second time. I will keep 5k mile oil changes and towards the higher end of the mileage interval, start doing more oil analysis. i have performed advanced cost analysis with part numbers and locations of where to get Parts for the cheapest purchase with good Parts. I will do a write up after my mechanic is finished with my car.

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Do you plan to replace your bearing? Last sentence says you plan to replace it, and that you do not plan to replace it?

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sorry, edited my post for clarity. I am replacing it now, but I will not replace it a second time in the future.

IMS Solution and never worry again...

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No worries at all, I was just confused. Which is not hard to do. LOL I thought about the same scenario for my car down the road when I need a new clutch...Will I change the bearing again or not? I guess we shall see if I own it that long. Cheers brother.

I have been debating for the last year on a new 911. For the price difference in a 997.2 (no IMS issue), I cannot see anything that I want above what my 2003 Carrara cab has. I truly love this car and still frequently sit in my garage, gazing at it. 5 years and 75,000 miles. I decided it could be my last car, so I wanted to get as many potential problems fixed. I just took it in for first big service that I could not do myself with IMS single row retrofit dual row pro, new clutch (10% left), flywheel, AOS, coolant tank, water pump, thermostat, and tires. $6800 but way less than any 997.2 would have cost had I sold my 996 as a down payment. Only $750 for the IMS which is good for 75k miles. I can do that twice for cost of the Solution. The next IMS will likely be needed exactly when the clutch needs to be done again. Driving off from the Indy, I had my usual huge smile. Just a bit more smile this time, as the clutch was feathery light. The car is still fantastic to drive.

I am close to buying a 996.1, and have been reading as much as I can on the RMS and IMS issues, since these appear to the the only major, recurring issues that might cost serious money after the purchase. One thing which is not so clear to me is the failure rate after the IMS bearing has been replaced. One vehicle I am looking at had an IMS failure, and had the engine swapped out by Porsche. If I am reading this thread correctly, then there is a good chance that the replacement engine has a single-row bearing, and is just as likely to fail as any other MY2000+ single-row engine. Is this the case, or do the replacement engines have less chance of failing? Are the any licensed installers of the IMS Solutions plain bearing in Germany, or how do German owners handle this problem out of warranty?

Quotes source post: 14787019

Depends on when (what year) the engine was replaced. Go to the PCA website and watch the videos by Jake Raby for more information.

Quotes source post: 14787019

Check with Custom Concepts. They have shops throughout the EU that he supplies Solutions to. Alexander will be able to help you out: http://lnengineering.eu/

Thanks, I will ask the guy what year the engine was swapped, and in case relevant, find the shop which can replace it. Was any survey done on repeated IMS failure rates?

Quotes source post: 14787278

Having done a lot of this research/education recently, what I will say is that you cannot be sure of what you have inside the engine without opening it and looking. Do not think that the date of service will determine anything. It's also mentioned in the aforementioned videos now up on YouTube/PCA. The reason is, many older parts were installed under warranty, and of course newer parts were put in as they were introduced. As for failures after a swap was done, that depends on which IMS was installed. Most are just service items with a lifespan. So for example, I have an early dual row IMS recently replaced. It's good for 6 years/60,000 miles as I recall. I figure in 6 years, I'll just replace it and put in a new clutch at the time. $3k service every 6 years is not a big deal. Read the info out there and get much more knowledge that I have ;-)

As a data point, I recently purchased a 2001 cab with 57800 miles. The clutch needed to be replaced, so I also had a L&N IMSB installed and the RMS replaced. $3700 in the Atlanta area. Upon inspection, the single row IMSB looked great, but now my peace of mind is in a better place. Cheers.

Which bearing did you go for, the ceramic bearing (IMS Retrofit) or the plain bearing (IMS Solution)? I presume you have direct oil feed now?

Hello Carsten, I had the ceramic bearing installed. My Indy recommended it and uses this bearing in the racing Porsches they build and maintain. Pat

New to the forum. Looking to purchase a 996. I learned to drive in a 914, This recommendation sounds like my Dad telling me to keep the rpm's above 3k to help keep the engine cool. Could it be that this engine is the first since the air cooled versions?

Quotes source post: 14880772

I too have always believed those owners who came from aircooled Porsches drive their cars differently and keep the rpms up, which is good for the IMS bearing.

Hi Guys, I am in the process of vetting an '04 996 and when pulling a CarFax report on the vehicle, the below entry appears: This entry occurred in 2009 when the car had roughly 30K miles on the clock. As it sits now, the car has about 60K miles and has no other worrisome items on the CarFax. The above entry seems to indicate that there was extensive work done on the engine, a thought that was echoed by the current owner's mechanic when he performed a PPI in 2014. The mechanic noted that the engine looked as if it was a factory replacement. From your experience, does the above blurb point to an IMS failure earlier in the vehicles life? Thanks for your time!

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Hard to tell from that info. An IMS bearing failure would have been a more catastrophic event. Engine serial number would indicate if it were a factory replacement. Ask the mechanic of rat engine number.

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These cars love and need to be driven in a more spirited fashion. Does it no good to sit as a garage queen. I have a '99 996 (original owner, 64k Mi) that I'm probably going to part with, as I just ordered a 2018 cab. PM me if interested.

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While I totally agree with what you're saying, I still think it's a good idea to replace the IMSB on all 996. The few thousands spent to replace is definitely worth engine blowing up and peace of mind.

Hi all, I've been seriously thinking about picking up a 996 for a while. Just wanted to clarify, are the lower mileage 996s more prone to failure than the high mileage examples? There are two local 996s that are sub 40K miles, but nothing on their Carfax says that the IMS/RMS have been replaced. Also, I looked through this thread and I read something that the IMS fix is good for ~75K miles. Is there not a permanent solution to the IMS?

Quotes source post: 14978228

Low mileage cars can indeed be problematic, both for IMS and cylinder issues. A proper PPI is a good idea and will cost you a bit, but in the long run can save you thousands if not tens of thousands. If you want to check out the vin number on the imsretrofit.com website, you can see if the bearing was changed and registered. There might be a serial number tag on the car if it has an LN kit fitted as well. The IMS Retrofit has a recommended service interval of 75k or 6 years, however the IMS Solution is a permanent fix that backdates the engine to a plain, pressure fed bearing like an aircooled 911 engine.

Quotes source post: 14978228

I am a high mileage guy. I would be weary about spending too much to get a low mileage 996. If you are spending a good bit, I would rather get a 997, or maybe a more desirable version like the C4S. 40k miles means the price is going to be high. 75k miles is a lot of miles if you have more than one vehicle. I drive my 996 almost daily, yet, I am putting on about 1k miles per month. My Accord get my 'worthless/boring' trips, like driving 700 miles every 2 weeks to get my daughter. This car is addicting, but I already plan on putting on my 70k miles, then by that time I should be in a good enough financial position to get a Turbo. Considering the price of the 'permanent' fix, remember that there are a lot of other things that can go wrong.. You can get in an accident, someone else can hit you, a tree can fall on your car, and now your permanent fix is useless. I am pretty sure the bearing can last well over 70k miles, especially since I am going to be doing 5k mile oil changes.

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I read the 2 documents you attached and thank you for that, it's a wealth of useful information. My problem is I don't have the skills to do the extra testing that is outside of the usual PPI. What should you do in my situation?

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I would recommend finding a shop to carry out the in depth inspection prior to committing to purchase a car unless you have a cooling off period where you can return the car and get your money back if you find anything that you don't like.

Quotes source post: 14979824

Charles, I called around my area in search of the most reputable Porsche indy and one quoted me roughly $1000 to do their regular PPI plus checking oil for debris, leak down/compression test and bore scope. Does this sound reasonable to you? I think it's rather high just to do a thorough PPI as you recommended. I really appreciate your feedback and thank you in advance.

Quotes source post: 14980904

That is a very fair deal for the amount of work to be done. I've seen shops charge upwards of $2k for this kind of detailed PPI, but that depends on your area and prevailing labor rate.

Just replaced the IMS bearing in my 120k mi 2002 Targa with the LN Single Row Pro. The replacement of the bearing is straightforward, using the LN Pro Tools kit and the Faultless Tools kit. Extraction was super easy. Installation of the LN SRP bearing with the wire lock takes a little more effort and is a little pucker-inducing, but it drove home straight and true. While the tools are not inexpensive, they are very well made and the pricing is reasonable once you get a close look at how well they're manufactured. I read the installation manual 10+ times in the weeks leading up to the install. Every step must be methodically followed -- there are reasons which become apparent as you work through it. Every word printed is there for a reason, and it's clear that you can screw yourself up good if you're a hamfist. I would like to think most folks willing to take on the task have the appropriate skills. The bearing that came out was still smooth and tight. The oil seals were intact and there was no debris in the IMS shaft. There was however some skanky oil trapped in the shaft, and I suspect as has been documented that this stale oil contributes to the failure of the IMS. This is a car that has been regularly driven and modestly maintained -- 5K oil change intervals with decent fluids, however it doesn't appear to have been enthusiast maintained. Easy to imagine on a sparsely used car that the IMS could sit and soak in stale oil 1/4" deep and develop faults with the seals. I have not yet pulled the grease seals on the old bearing for a visual inspection, however I'll gladly do so and post pictures if anyone is interested.

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Agreed, I think it�s a well thought out system. Definitely pull the seals and inspect, my seals looked fine on a 40k mile engine but the bearing was filled with motor oil, not grease.

Quotes source post: 14983891

Yep, full of janky old oil. Bearing was probably near the end of it's service life, but not shedding material. Camshaft deviations steady @ 3.74 degrees and nothing in the sump. Follow the LN prequalification procedure to a T, and the car qualified.

I agree on the IMS replacement for the affected 996 engines. I don�t know if I�m allowed to say everything I�m about to on this forum, and I am not affiliated with any Porsche parts or service companies, but here goes. If you are working on your valuable 996 yourself, beware the parts slingers who do not specialize in Porsche parts but still pop up when you google IMS Solution. My 2002 996 Cab was purchased 2 yrs ago with 35,500 miles. Due to me learning about the IMS with ball brgs, I never felt comfortable driving the car much. For me the topic is the foreign object debris from this brg in a wet sump. Due to this I decided upon vehicle purchase to replace the original single row IMS with the IMS Solution from LN Engineering. The picture in my head of a ball brg in this expensive, complex engine wasn�t acceptable to me. A very long time ago I used to work on pre-mix 2 stroke engines that used similar caged brgs, but the oiling was done via the fuel charge traveling over the main and rod brgs, pistons, etc and depositing a very low, but sufficient, oil film on them. When these brgs failed, it was detectable by noise or finally a siezed engine where the damage was localized, and foreign object debris to other brgs, pistons, etc was low risk. In the 996 engine, any wear particles get pumped through the engine to wreak havoc wherever they go. So it�s a no brainer for me to avoid risk by IMS brg replacement. In order to avoid this foreign object debris, it�s ability to overcome runout and other tolerance stack issues and never need to be replaced, the IMS Solution is the only way to go for me. So at 39,600 miles I finally changed the IMS to IMSS, RMS, AOS, coolant reservoir, engine bay coolant hoses, clutch, oil pressure sending unit, etc. All of this was preventative on this 16 yr old vehicle, and all parts replaced were in good condition. So an old guy with previous auto mechanic experience, a mechanical engineering degree and over 30 years of manufacturing leadership experience in complex mechanical systems, and a participant in the Jake Raby 99X engine rebuild class, should have no problem with this job, right? Besides this being a rather large job which I can�t imagine doing without a lift and all appropriate tools, it was all ok even though it stretched my abilities at times. Except for one thing. I got � smart� and saved some money and bought my IMSS from an internet parts slinger, whom shall remain nameless here. The original price was good but I wasn�t convinced yet. They got me when they cold called me asking how they could help me purchase the parts I left in the cart and offered me a special discount on top. A weak moment for sure. This trip to the dark side led me to just share my experience with anyone contemplating doing this job themselves. With a lot of effort this work can be done and will be personally rewarding, but UNLESS YOU WANT TO RISK: 1. Receiving the right part in the wrong box 2. find that you got a USED AND DISASSEMBLED PART that has damages on it that are covered up by assy lube 3. receiving no warranty paperwork nor stickers 4. finding that when you place a legitimate claim for full monetary refund you won�t get your money back 5. after sending documented evidence of the damages, etc you find you will have a new hobby of �persistently� following up on this topic for up to 2 hours per day to get replacement parts within 2 weeks instead of the 4+ weeks it normally would take � I recommend you stick to ordering straight from the experts at LN Engineering. I would happily pay the price difference I thought I �saved� to have had my vehicle 2 weeks earlier and avoid the stress. The guys at LN know exactly what they are talking about and even helped identify the damaged parts in this case. This great support was in contrast to the parts slingers that told me on a daily basis they were in contact with the manufacturer, whom they in fact never contacted, to resolve the issue. In the end my 2 cents worth is, if you want to do this work yourself, the best choice is the IMS Solution with parts directly from LN using their no cost IMS and RMS tool offer ( which I didn�t know about at the time). This is especially true for the weakest engines with the single row bearing. The tools to go with the single row pro make it hard to justify vs just installing the IMS Solution and not having to ever worry about it again. I just hope this helps someone avoid this mistake in the future. Larry Lautenschlager [/QUOTE]

"If you are working on your valuable 996 yourself, beware the parts slingers who do not specialize in Porsche parts but still pop up when you google IMS Solution." Larry, While I appreciate your somewhat verbose diatribe, without mentioning the specific name of the said "parts slinger", it's virtually useless! Yes LN Engineering is a well run and responsive business, but you said that in 4 lines in your last paragraph...a little self editing goes a long way...

Thank you for your insightful, punctilious critique of my post. It will help me in the future. The purchase was from CARiD.

^^Touche'^^

I bought mine on ebay. True story. ;-)

I�m looking for some insight. I recently purchased a 2002 996 that had the engine replaced in 2013 with a 2005 3.6 factory rebuilt engine. I�ve been told that the rebuild after 2006 have a significantly more reliable IMS bearing. Additionally I was told it is much more difficult to replace these later rebuilds. Any help is greatly appreciated

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Correct, but the only way to no for sure if its serviceable or not is to see it.

Quotes source post: 15124824

If it does have the non-serviceable bearing, don't lose too much sleep. http://imsretrofit.com/my06-08/ Have the grease seal removed and flange re-sealed. You'll be good to go. If it is the single row that can be changed, change it right away while you are there.

Hi There; I am considering buying this 2003 C4S with 81K miles on it and the owner is not sure if the IMS has been done on it or not, although I see below note from its Carfax report and am wondering if this gives a clue as whether the IMS has been done while they were in there replacing the Clutch or not ? what do you guys think? He is the second owner and he has had it since 2006; seems to have done all the regular maintenance on it and take care of the car pretty well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 09/24/2008 31,493 miles Beverly Hills Porsche Beverly Hills, CA 3105572472 - Driveshaft seal replaced - Clutch assembly replaced - Sunroof replaced/repaired - Transmission removed and reinstalled - Front crankshaft oil seal replaced

Just saying. If it does not say IMS bearing replaced, then I would assume the IMS bearing was not replaced.

Ceramic certainty.

I had my IMS done to my 2003 C4 cab with only 10k miles on it. Had the SOLUTION done and wanted to keep the old one for an expensive paperweight but I guess they send them to LN engineering for eval! BTW it was perfect no problems but Rab always says its the low mileage ones you have to worry the most about! Upstate imports in Baldwinsville NY did the work. Jeff Thomas great guy to work with! Very knowledgeable. He spent a lot of time with me going over the car for the PPI! Spent 6k for IMS water pump and various other items to get the car where I did not have to worry about it. Found 2 mouse nests in it ! GARAGE queens.

I am looking to get a replacement for my C2 964 in favor of a C4S 996 or 997. There is a lot of opinion on the 996s and early 997(2005-2006) regarding IMS issues. What I am curious about is how many fail after doing the IMS upgrades? There a guy in our local club that did the upgrade and still had a failure? Any insight anyone could share would be appreciated. Lots of great values out there for 996 C4Ss!

I dwcided if you dont really need 4/all wheel drive, you should not get it, and I do not need it in SoCal. so I am going to wait for a regular 911 with at least 90k on it already.

Quotes source post: 15302015

I suggest you spend some time and read the ims threads at the top of the page. I can tell you what seems to be the consensus is WHO and WHERE the ims was done. ALSO which one was done. SO FAR there are no known failures of the ims solution by CERTIFIED installers. http://theimssolution.com/certified-installers/

Thanks for the feedback! I will continue to research before buying.

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Indeed!

Quotes source post: 15302015

There is another thread going on (IMS poll) where someone posted having put in an IMS Retrofit after pulling a failed bearing. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ke-a-poll.html Indirectly, this answers your question as to if it is possible for an engine to suffer an IMS failure after the bearing has been changed. The answer is yes. If an engine isn't properly qualified or the new part replaces a failed or failing one, the new bearing can certainly fail, regardless of what type of bearing is used. We have yet to see any IMS Retrofit fail when properly pre-qualified including zero failures of any of our dual row ceramic hybrid bearings or the IMS Solution. The exception is with the IMS Solution. I'm not condoning retrofitting engines that have already been compromised, but the IMS Solution has no moving parts sees filtered oil. Positive oiling makes sure debris won't get in there. We've also seen engines that have suffered non-ims related failures and the IMS Solution could be reused, where any ball or roller bearing should not be re-used.

Looking at either a 996 or 986. Many don't yet have the IMS bearing replaced. As a DIYer with a garage (and a lift in the plans), is there a difference in level-of-difficulty in replacing the IMS bearing on a Boxster vs a 911? (And while I'm asking... which car is 'better' as a DIYer in general?). Thanks.

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With a lift, it's certainly doable for the DIY owner. A transmission jack would also be useful, but otherwise check out the instructions for the IMS Solution to get an overview of the process: http://imssolution.com/documentation-and-downloads/ The Bentley Publishers video also has a great overview of the process: http://imsretrofit.com/ims-retrofit-procedure-overview/ We have free tool rental including RMS tool when you order an IMS Solution. Discounted tool rental is also now offered through LN when purchasing a Retrofit kit.

What is the consensus on how many miles per year will circulate the oil sufficiently for it not to ‘spoil’? I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on a car that just had the bearing replaced. Because I’m splitting my time between North and South, I won’t be putting tons of miles on any one car. Thanks. TC

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It's not a consensus, it's LN Engineering gospel:

Adam—That’s really not what I was asking. The bearing tends to fail with greater frequency on cars that don’t get driven very often. I was wondering what constituted low useage that would give the oil trapped in the bearing a chance to corrode the material and cause failure. IOW, if I drive 5000 mi a year, am I at significantly greater risk of a failure than if I drive 15,000 mi per year? TC

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based on the info various experts put out, the answer is this: as long as you drive it at least 20 minutes, and thoroughly warm it up each time you drive it, then you're not at higher risk of failure doing 5k a year vs 15k. (Assuming you change the oil every 6 months as well.) It's the very short drives once a week where the oil doesn't have a chance to burn off the moisture, or the garage queen that's started once a week, idled for 10 minutes then shut down, it's those cars that are at high risk. I never take my cars out if they aren't going to be driven for a while. (That's what my daily driver is for.) I also have a new Shelby GT350 and some of those are having mysterious engine failures, so I treat that the same way.

Thanks, Adam! Good luck with the Shelby—What a beast! TC

Quotes source post: 15465189

Yea, it's a crazy car. Loving it so far. Is that your Capri in the signature? I LOVE those! My father had one as a kid. They make good platforms for small block V8 swaps ;-)

IMS bearing kit For Sale I have a 2003 Targa with 74,000 miles, decided to drop engine and do bearing and seal swap before any issues. Pulled it apart and found out that bearing was different. Upon Inspection found out I had a new engine fitted in 2010 under warrantee at 49,000 miles by Porsche. Its the newer engine so IMS is not an issue. I had talked to the dealer before and asked why they did not tell me, there explanation was they only keep records for 2 yrs, go figure?. NEW KIT FOR SALE So I have a LN kit and a new oem seal , I paid $547 for all as I had a coupon, the LN kits are now $650 plus seal $48 ( $698) value I will seal all for $490 to member. I have photos and receipt, brand new, along with registration card for kit, I can send photos. John

Quotes source post: 15465271

I had an identical Capri when I was in HS. The thing must have been built in the old Tiger factory in Germany. The sheet metal had to be an inch thick�it accelerated like it was. Fond memories though. TC

Just to be clear, can you add the Solution without replacing the IMS? My car had the bearing replaced early this year and the previous owner put about 1,000 mi on it in the past year. TC

Quotes source post: 15481376

The solution IS the replacement for the bearing. Read up on it at LN engineering and/or Jake Raby site. http://flat6innovations.com/ ​​​​​​ https://lnengineering.com/education/...ilure-101.html

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Got it. I thought you could add the pressurized feed to an existing IMSB. TC

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Thats a different type of oil feed, not to be confused with the IMS Solution.

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So there is a stand alone oil feed you can install and leave the existing original IMS bearing intact?

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Yes, there is a copy cat out there. Though a bit different than the " LN IMS Solution"

Quotes source post: 15482358

Yes. Saw an install vid the other day. Not touching it. I�ll do the solution if my car qualifies at 100k mi.... TC

Quotes source post: 15482529

Do you happen to have the link to this video? This is big news to me and I like to get more info on it. TIA.

Quotes source post: 15482541

A simple Google search will get you there.

BRAND NEW IMS KIT FOR SALE I have a 2003 Targa with 74,000 miles, decided to drop engine and do bearing and seal swap before any issues. Pulled it apart and found out that bearing was different. Upon Inspection found out I had a new engine fitted in 2010 under warrantee at 49,000 miles by Porsche. Its the newer engine so IMS is not an issue. I had talked to the dealer before and asked why they did not tell me, there explanation was they only keep records for 2 yrs, go figure?. NEW KIT FOR SALE So I have a LN kit and a new oem seal , I paid $547 for all as I had a coupon, the LN kits are now $650 plus seal $48 ( $698) value I will seal all for $490 to member. I have photos and receipt, brand new, along with registration card for kit, I can send photos. John

My money says many people who buy a Porsche rarely check their oil level. I'd bet when it starts making a noise is when they add oil. Porsche tested these engines for millions of miles but they checked the oil when they added fuel. These "fixes" are probably necessary for anybody too busy to comply with factory users manuals. If this 29000 mile car is "good" when acquired, just check the oil regularly and inspect it when another service makes it convenient. Clutch, etc.

Vincent, I’ll look for the link. It was in one of the threads in this section. TC

I have been reading a lot about the IMS and watched the videos online. One of the contributing factors is low RPM load on the engine. In all the statistics was there ever a breakdown between Tip cars and Manual cars? I was wondering if the Tip does a better job of keeping the load off of the bearing.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Less Tip cars were made, so we see less failures. In all actuality, it boils down to how it's driven. In the city, a Tip will gravitate to top gear, with the engine running at lower rpms on average than a manual car. At higher speeds, the final drive on a Tip has the engine rpm being higher than a similar manual car. It's all in how it's driven.

Charles, this is one subject I've been wondering about and would appreciate any additional explanation. Is there a way to understand the mechanism which is happening with higher RPMs? I know this is common advice, that higher RPMs help prevent the IMSB from failing. But what is really happening in this circumstance? Is there more oil splashed on the bearing? Does the oil stay fresher at higher RPMs? Do higher RPMs relate somehow to the oil contaminants? Or in the circumstance of the IMSB seals failing, and the "lifetime" grease coming out, do higher RPMs help to drive that old grease out so oil can get at the bearing? Is there some relationship between higher RPMs and the way the ***** in the bearing behave? Sorry for all the poor guesses, it is only to illustrate the further insight I'd be interested to understand. Thank you!

Quotes source post: 15663246

It has to do with hydrodynamic lubrication. At higher surface speeds, less oil is required to properly lubricate the bearing. Think about it this way - there is a fixed load on the bearing. At higher speeds, the ball spends less time at a given point as the ball is rolling (or sliding) faster. This is obviously an oversimplification, but it gets the point across. Porsche realized this and went to the 6305 bearing to increase the surface speed, which as a byproduct, also restored the load capacity the original dual row bearing had.

So spinning the bearing faster reduces the amount of load on a given surface at a given time. I find it funny that the 70s GM Super T10 transmission I rebuilt had a roller bearing that survived for over 100K miles without issue but Porsche was having an 8% failure rate at half that mileage. Granted, the T10 doesn't have a side load on it and that may be part of the issue. Also, the roller bearing in the T10 wasn't sealed and relied on splashing from the gear oil in the transmission.

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Yup. As I've said many times, if Porsche had just keep the dual row bearing and left the seals off, I don't believe we'd all be having this discussion now.

Quotes source post: 15663268

I've wondered about this over and over again this after watching Jake in the PCA video. I thought maybe it had to do with centrifugal forces. But you're saying the load is fixed, and at higher speeds the lubrication needs are reduced reduced because of hydrodynamic lubrication. Based on this link , it appears that at higher speeds, the ball bearings basically hydroplane. Interesting!

New term for 2019 - hydroplane your IMSB! Love it....

Quotes source post: 15663325

It definitely would�ve given the equipment a fighting chance. I still don�t get why a cylindrical roller bearing wasn�t employed or even a timken style with an angle for thrust loads too. I�m not sure they can handle the rpm, but materials might make that possible. It�s a lot to ask of a simple ball roller bearing no matter how you view this issue.

Thank you Charles. One thing we should be able to conclude: periodically reving the Tip to higher RPMs won't help much as a preventative measure..

took my newly acquired 2003 c4s (22k miles) into dealer for IMS replacement. maybe it would never fail, but for the cost vs peace of mind i'll take peace of mind.

Hi guys , regards from Croatia. I have an early 2005 997.1 C2 tip with 108k kilometers ( 67k miles) on it. This is a M96/05 engine and the engine number (69501175) says it has the single row ims bearing . The car is great , all services done in Porsche service but their oil change intervals were naturally at 20k kilometers (12000miles) , Mobil1new life 0w40. So I am a bit worry about the imsb failure. I have done only 4k kilometers in two years but I have changed the oil recently. The engine/ gearbox is dry , no unusual noises , no debris in the oil filter. I have learned all about the imsb issue , all about retrofits , LN , Pedros DOF , EPS , etc. The problem is Croatia is a small country, low number of 996/997 Porsches and not a one imsb failure at all ! So my Porsche mechanic says they are not trained and he will not do any retrofit with some parts out of the oem porsche parts. This is a tiptronic gearbox so there wont be any clutch changing in the future.It is not a low mileage car so I am giving up on any ims solutions by now. Anyhow , by reading and learning about imsb failure , we all presume it happens at about 8% of the cars with single row bearing , low mileage cars , garage queens , short driving with not properly heated oil , low revs , long oil change intervals ....etc. All of these facts have made me thinking about what could be in common of every all the above mentioned suspections ? The only thing I can find is the oil level in the sump. I can not find any post about it on any Porsche forum . Let me share my thoughts with you: The ims bearing was a sealed ball bearing with grease in it when was new. After some time and mileage the engine oil enter the bearing through the seals and wash the grease out. That is a fact because all the owners who has as precaution measure changed the bearings say there was no grease inside but there was engine oil. And most of the bearings were good. Therefore , the bearing was lubricated with the oil , no problems. The oil level in the sump comes at about 1 or 2 centimeters from the lowest part of this bearing when the engine is not running so the bearing is partialy in the oil when the car is in the garage. When we start the engine , the bearing picks up the oil and spins lubricated . Whats the oil level in the sump when the engine idle and what is on higher revs , I dont know because the oil must get to every part of the engine. This is technically a dry sump engine so there is no oil splashing around by the crankshaft so I dont know how much oil the bearing gets at this point. But I believe when we stop at the lights and the engine idle , the bearing is again partialy in the oil. I am talking about the fresh and clean oil changed regularly. Also there is some amount of oil in the shaft, good or bad depends on some other facts. But the bearing is lubricated. Now, we are talking about the garage queens , low mileage cars with the old engine oil inside. Do these owners check the oil level when they seat in their cars ? I dont think so. Even if they check it , they assume all is ok as long as the oil level is not at the minimum on the scale on the display. And the difference from the minimum and maximum oil level could be more then 1 liter ( quart ) ! What is going on with the bearing now when the oil level is too low ? Does it seat dry for months , and doesnt get initial oil splash?? How much oil does it get when the engine idle or revs? I dont now but I think this is the issue with these 8% or 1% on the other two kinds of berings . Apart from that , I think low revs and cold oil doesnt go through the bearings seals to refresh the old oil stucked in the shaft as well. What do you think about it ? pardon my english....

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It's a common misconception that the M96/M97 engine is a dry sump engine. It is indeed a wet sump engine and there is a lot of oil being thrown about the inside the engine by the chains as they pass through the engine oil. The original seals on the bearing are designed only for intermittent use at 250F, which over time, become hard and brittle, failing to keep the grease in the bearing. Based off many years of observations, most IMS bearings will have their grease washed out and the shaft itself will fill up with oil, even with the seals still present. This oil, along with the partial submersion, will provide some oil to the original bearing. If the primary cause for bearing failure was solely lubrication, we would expect the original dual row and later MY06-08 bearings to fail at equal rates to the least durable single row. Once a bearing has been fitted without a grease seal (open bearing), there is ample oil mist from oil laden air along with the partial submersion to ensure proper lubrication for your choice of ball or roller bearing. With regards to your mechanic only using OEM Porsche parts, currently the only option is a teardown and installation of the current MY06-08 complete IMS shaft. The "Retrofit" bearing kit released by Porsche with a sealed, single row ceramic hybrid bearing was available for ordering only for a very short period in 2017 and soon became unavailable for ordering.

Charles , the M96 3.6 engine is technically a dry sump engine but with the oil tank in the engine. It has a scavenge pump , oil splash protection plates and crankshaft counterweights dont swim in the oil when the engine is not running. But this is not so important. My question is what happens with imsb when it seats for a longer period dry , over the oil level with the owners who let their cars with oil level at minimum ? We agree the original grease has been washed out after some mileage.

I had the Solution installed in October in my new to me 2003. I was at 45000 miles. Bearing seemed fine. No real idea how to tell. I removed the seal. There was no sign of any grease or lube. It didn’t even look like there was ever grease in there.

I suppose there was oil inside the bearing , wasn' it ?

IMS Solution going in next week. Installer is offering an option to keep original paper Porsche filter. Shop is not a fan of the metal spin on filter offered in the LN kit. Anyone know of this mod? You run a oil line to plug off thread on driver side of motor top under water/coolant tank.

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I suggest you bring this up with the inventor...There's a reason Jake does what he does, he's not the short cut type.

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Find another shop. This one is so lost that they don’t even realize that the IMS Solution REQUIRES oil volume supplied by the proprietary (and Patented) spin on oil filter assembly that is made specifically for the IMS Solution. What have they developed for these engines, and what have they done? Who are they, as I'd flag every single install that they've done as being suspect, and attach that flag to every VIN registered. There’s no other option to use the factory oil filter assembly, and modifications to do so will result in an epic failure. If the installer wants to rob oil from the bank 1 camshaft cover, as you suggest, then he will be doing so at the sacrifice of the bank 1 valve train. The reason why we took the time to create, and patent the oil supply location with the IMS Solution, is because I found out the importance of having "just filtered oil" as well as attaining oil volume and pressure immediately upon start top. As developed, the IMS Solution is the very first component in the engine to receive oil volume, and pressure within the engine. Oil goes from the oil pump directly to the filter, then to the IMS Solution, BEFORE stopping anywhere else. This means that start up wear is non- existent, as designed. Every single other location that we used to attain oil viumne and pressure tot he IMS Solution resulted in a negative being experienced. At the location where we attain the oil volume, and pressure, we see a consistent 12 PSI higher oil pressure than anywhere else, with catalogers taking pressure readings at 8 different places on the engine, simultaneously. With hot oil, over 220 degrees, the pressure differential could be as much as 16 PSI deviation, which I have logged, simultaneously. "Robbing" oil from the cam cover for the IMS Solution works exactly opposite from this. It takes away volume and pressure used to actuate the variable valve timing, and variable lift for those fitted with various-cam "Plus". It also rubs critical operating oil pressure and volume for the hydraulic lifters. This modification alone can easily create camshaft phasing issues with hot oil, and result in a camshaft diagnostic fault code for "bank 1 inlet camshaft out of range- retarded". Yes, been there, done that, and blown that up. I know what you can expect, because I have experienced it. There are no "pros" to running the system as he has mentioned, only negatives... You also forego the benefits of having "just filtered oil", to attain oil from the END of the oil system, rather than the "beginning" of the system, as I have designed it. This means that you are getting dirty oil to the IMS Solution, AND the IMS Solution ends up being the LAST item lubricated within the engine, instead of the first. Now, tell me how any of that makes any sense. My 7 year old daughter can teach this installer more about the IMS Solution, than he already knows- no exaggeration. If this installer wants to take these kinds of risks, all because he doesn't like the design of something, then he'd better be willing to warranty the product himself, because his modification will damn sure kill the product warranty. I designed the IMS Solution in a certain way, and took a decade of my life to prove it. I wasted two years trying the things that your installer wants to do. Looks like it's time to shoot another video to teach people how to think. Damn it. This is why I take the time to train, and certify IMS Solution installers. Use one.

Thanks Shop offered as an option only - been shopping around - lots of opinions out there As for IMMS Cert guys we only have one in CALI to choose from I will stick with the IMMS kit spin on filter for this prevented maintenance work I appreciate the feedback guys

Well, after 6 years of living with the dreaded IMS failure risk, I have finally succumb to the pressure. As a risk taking entrepreneur (Rodeo Clown & investor) risk is my game. So owning a 996 fits with my life style. My 2004 996AE, with many nice GT3 mods is going under the knife. IMSS going in today. Oil filter inspection good, Cam dev., within spec, vacuum test for AOS good, etc... pre inspection complete yesterday. At 33k miles, annual oil changes, BlackStone reports, preventive water pump, low T of course, coil packs, sparkies (while mufflers were out getting FIstered - age not miles) my beautiful X51, PSS10, GT3 ride height, Euro seats and wheels will get the 5k plus IMMS treatment. She is worth it. Like a day at the spa for my ride. Hard to spend the money on a non performance mod but as someone wise once said owning a 996 is like owning an aircraft. You must do the preventive maintenance stuff to keep her flying. I have picked out a very special place for my new, very expensive paper weight. Shop said they will engrave it for me. STUPID is what they suggested. I pick it up this afternoon.The paperweight not the car.

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Good move. You can sleep better at night with one big risk mitigated. And should you need to sell, no worries with the market about protection.

Spring Day Drive Saw car yesterday on lift with trans out. AOS replaced, rear main seal, IMSS prepped. Saw the IMSS in person for the first time. Work of art. Expensive, like art. This is how Porsche should have built our cars from the start. First thing this morning IMSB will be removed and IMSS going in. Hope to drive her home tonight. Clutch at 33k is good, so at 1,500 miles or so averaged over last six years I am going to save the money. If and when needed I will drop trans and DIY clutch. If clutch goes its obvisious and isnt a catastrophic event. I did, even though AOS tested in spec agree to R&R it. Sounded complicated and I saved a ton of labor while trans out.

Is there a difference in the difficulty of removing a dual vs single row bearing from the early cars such as 2000 C4 cab for example? I been told that i have one which is harder to remove, needs more work etc...

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The dual row bearing has an internal wire lock that requires more force than the single row, which has an external snap ring that you remove prior to extraction.

thanks. I was told that the engine i have is not an M96, intact an M97. I can tell you - at least based on this am checking in MY garage - it is an M96. Are there different types of M96 where you need to do more work/much harder to replace the IMS? My car has a replacement Porsche factory (rebuilt) engine from 2005. The shop (paperwork provided by the PO) who did the engine swap, states a 3.4 engine with 996 codes... At this point I am totally confused after 20 years of Porsche ownership and trust the shop who serviced many of my cars ...

Having an M97 in a 996 would be really unusual unless someone did the engine swap on purpose. The M97 is the usual engine in a 997 or 987.

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Sounds like you have an m96 factory replacement with the same LARGE (non serviceable) imsb used in the M97. Post a picture of you engines serial number. It will have an AT in it like mine...

here it is

it does have the AT in it just like yours...should i just let it be? The engine has about 16K miles on it.

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As Bill mentioned, this will probably have the late 06-08 non-serviceable bearing. Basically, any replacement engine manufactured in model year 2006 or later would receive the updated bearing, even if it wasn't original to the engine. That's not a total loss, you should still have the bearing's grease seal removed to extend the life of the bearing: http://imsretrofit.com/my06-08/

thanks Charles!

A dealer just quoted me $2800 to do the IMSS as part of a 996 purchase (specifically the LN). Reasonable? If RMS is done at the same time, what kind of premium should that be?

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If it's the LN Solution (oil fed) then yes jump on it!

I'll have to verify it's the oil fed.

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That's what the IMSS is (aka The IMS Solution)

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I didn't realize there was a difference.

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https://lnengineering.com/products/i...7-engines.html

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I see, extra $1000 for oil fed. Although if there are no failures reported with either option with >30,000 installed (!!!) why would you spend the extra grand?

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The IMS Solution is a do once and forget about it. The others need to be done again over time/mileage.

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What's the suggested replacement interval for the bearing replacement? I didn't see anything on the LN site.

Trolling; IMSB failure fatigue?

Are you asking me if i'm trolling because i asked an IMSB question in the IMSB thread?

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I see than LN recommends 75k replacement interval.

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And or 5 years, which ever comes first if I recall.

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6 years. It was in the graphic and I didn't notice. Strangely I couldn't find it in the text on the site. http://lnengineering.com/media/queld...S-Brochure.jpg

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Replace it every 5000 miles with the oil change to be on the safe side

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If you worried about the oil remaining in the IMSB, get this one. https://www.europeanpartssolution.co...d-modification

I'd like to know how the oil in the shaft affects it's balance. Also, if you have a seal (997 type) on the inner side of the bearing how much oil gets in it?

First time post so please excuse any breach of etiquette. I am considering an '03 C4S that had supposedly had a failure in 2008 and received a replacement engine at the dealer at approx 30k mi. It now has approx 60k. My question is if Porsche had done any updates themselves to the IMS by this time or am I still faced with upgrading this for peace of mind? Thanks in advance

QUOTE=sledguy73;16059272]First time post so please excuse any breach of etiquette. I am considering an '03 C4S that had supposedly had a failure in 2008 and received a replacement engine at the dealer at approx 30k mi. It now has approx 60k. My question is if Porsche had done any updates themselves to the IMS by this time or am I still faced with upgrading this for peace of mind? Thanks in advance[/QUOTE] Yes and No...You most likely have the larger 997 style bearing that is not serviceable unless you split the case. Lower failure rate. Get in there to verify and remove the seal if it is the larger bearing.

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Lower failure rate, but you still have chance to see your balance is going out of your bank. So, you better upgrade the IMS for your peace of mind.

Got my car back from the indy for a clutch, AOS and IMS bearing install. It looks like they didn't lock the cams, but locked the crankshaft to TDC and pulled the bank 1 and IMS chain tensioners. Now the car has a slightly rough idle with a vibration coming from the engine every 5-10 sec. Car drives fine despite the idle and no CEL. Should I be worried? Would this IMSB install procedure cause these symptoms? Hoping its just a minor vacuum leak from AOS hoses.

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Have the cam deviations checked..

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Any update?

where did you have the work completed in southern California area..looking to do the same on my 2004 C2

Hello All, recently purchased a 15k mile 996 with original IMS. I plan to get the IMS swapped ASAP. any suggestions on which one to go with? I've been doing research, but still very new. I'm actually picking up the car this weekend and plan to drive it about 400 miles home. I hope I'm not making a huge mistake doing this! Also, does anyone know a recommended mechanic to work on 996's in the St. Louis, MO area? thanks!

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I spent a good two weeks reading all I could find on the subject. I suggest you google the topic and get busy before asking about IMSB, the topic has been beating to death and all the information you need is out there, you just need to search! Best of luck with your new 996, they are great cars when maintained properly... Focus on the Rennvision (YouTube) video series by Jake Raby and Flat6 Innovations aka FSI

Unfortunately 99.75% of that is all hearsay, or comes from people with zero direct experience. When someone tells me "I am going to research my options" I just laugh.. They consider Google research, not knowing that most of what they read is being written by people who know less than they do! No information is better than misinformation, and crap posted by "forumites" that have zero direct experience. This "research" is killing these cars, and engines.

Thanks again for the info. I've been doing research for a while now, but after a bit it feels like my brain is melting haha. I think i know what to do, but i need to find a good mechanic in my area. St. Louis

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Yup, and once I was thoroughly confused with conflicting information I came here and found you (someone I was familiar with from my early aircooled VW days) and got re-edjumacated… Thank you for all your help it's truly appreciated!

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I did a lot of research too. Mine was a 45000 mile car. I ended up having the Solution installed. Why? Whatever IMS replacement you do, labour costs are about the same. The difference is the part price. The Solution is expensive. $1000 more? $1500 more? I suggest that if you keep the car forever, you never have to change it so you save money. If you sell the car, I think you can expect to get back the cost differential of the Solution versus any other IMS bearing option including some of the LN options. My bearing appeared perfect when removed. Every penny was worth it when I was on a backroad, wife caught me at 180 km/h. 5 minutes later, a firetruck pulled over to let me by. Expensive? yes. WORTH EVERY PENNY.

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appreciate the info! Im kind of leaning towards the solution . Its roughly around $1000 more for the shops around me. Seems like it may be worth spending a little more money

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I HIGHLY recommend you get a certified installer if possible! Get the car precertified. Mine was done several hundred miles away. The installer took his time showing and explaining everything to me. Did the water pump and a few other small things. I do all the other work myself for the past 1.5 years and 17000 miles! Daily driver ​​​​​​ http://theimssolution.com/certified-installers/

Hello all, I am planning to replace my bearing soon, the car is 2000 c2, the previous owner replaced the original engine due to the bearing failure, he said the current engine was pulled out of a 99 c2. anyway I am going to remove the transmission in the next couple days to identify the flange type, but I was wondering can the engine model year be verified from the serial number? this is a crucial part in my opinion when picking parts related to the engine (correct me if i am wrong) instead of ordering 2000 parts in case of any variations. Regards.

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Greetings all, I'm planning to replace my IMSB and RMS and would appreciate the loan of tools for the job. Specifically the tool to remove the IMSB and the cam locks. Tool to set the RMS would be nice as well but beggars cant be choosers. I have an 02 C2 Cab which IIRC is a 3 chain. I live in the Balt/Washington D.C. area. I will pick up. I appreciate any assistance. PM me if you can help. Thanks, PJ

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If you buy the IMS products from LN Engineering directly, they offer tool rental.

I'm considering a 996 and cannot find any info. in this thread regarding the track record of the European Parts Solution oiled IMS bearing. https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/ims-bearing-upgrade-kit Thanks for any help you can lend!

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Google it.

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The obvious answer you gave is fruitless and is why I posted in this thread.

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Just buy the LN Engineering IMS Solution and be done with it. It is the best, and if you''re going in there to do that, that is the solution. I would venture a guess that no one will way in on the EPS DOF IMS replacement. You can do it if you want to...your car your engine. But the Solution is the Solution.

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The vehicle I'm considering already has the EPS oiled unit in place and is why I'm looking to find out if it's worthy. Or should I consider the car to be in the same predicament as OE.

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And this was the only link on the subject?

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This link wasn't on the first few pages of the google search I did after posting here as a long time member. The only hit that came up for the EPS is that it's an available option, no duh. It seems the forum consensus is LMS or you're in the same boat as OE. Got it! Thanks

Tractionless: The EPS is oversize (as all of the IMS bearings are, original or aftermarket), it's not a parts issue. The EPS, as with other aftermarket, are NOT sealed so you need to change oil frequently and using original spec(this is important as it blocks particle sizes which are damaging for the bearing) air/oil filters. Common to keep all bearings(and the engine in total) running for a long time is to keep the engine temp low(on average, coolant well below boiling): clean the radiators out frequently. Cooling can be improved: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-radiator.html

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Thanks for the technical response Nick! I don't mind the open bearing as maintenance hasn't been in issue with me. I'll perform 3k mile oil changes if necessary. When members say IMS Solution or nothing it immediately throws a flag in my mind of others being structurally inadequate.

This may have been asked and I missed it, so my apologies if it was answered already. What is the typical price range for IMS replacement with LNE bearing with the oil feed line?

You need to call your garage as labor is a large part of the job and you need to find an experienced garage. Price for the parts you find online. There was a case recently discussed here where the shop messed up the installation due to lack of experience, basically messing up a fully functioning engine. (This is my opinion and I used to work with bearings)To answer a question you haven't asked: There is no need for an oil feed, a stronger or different bearing... just a replacement. You don't need a different bearing but it's maybe good mentally if the IMSB scares you. Best way of doing it is to pop the cover for an inspection first, both of the current bearing and the engine in general. If it's in good condition(no excessive play and turns butter smooth) I would leave it in place but most people would probably replace it anyway. And also, see my advice in the post above.

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Nick, Thank you for the response. I reached out to a local shop that specializes in both Porsche and performance/race cars to get an idea on costs. I know it can definitely vary, and want a shop with experience with this. I am taking my S6 there for service after a couple local Indy shops didn't really know the car that well. I would think of changing the bearing mainly for peace of mind. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to accurately check the bearing, you have to tear the car apart anyway and separate the transmission. At that point, wouldn't the labor be close to just changing it? I'm sorry if I'm off on this, I'm just learning about the platform now.

Yes, you are correct that the extra labor of replacing it is minimal once you have it apart enough to check it. These bearings go bad from time to time but if they are good they are designed to last in excess of a million miles. If your bearing is good, you know it's good.....if you replace it with something else you're not sure about the new bearing(or it's installation). As they say "If it's not broken, don't fix it"....or google 'bathtub curve' to understand statistically how to think about it.

Posted this in another thread but will share here for cost visibility; 11/99 build date, service performed 08/2017 with 26,800 miles. Indy ran by Jeff Brubaker of Kraftwerks in north central OH, found on LN's site as a certified solution installer; Replaced stock dual row with LN retrofit (pending passing pre-qualification checks), replace RMS, AOS, clutch, flywheel, fluids, LN magnetic drain plug, scan service/activate PCM, and install LN spin-on filter adapter. Total with tax; $3,373.90 Majority of the other components are accessible when replacing the IMS so there wasn't much change in labor, just additional cost for the parts.

I purchased a 1999 996 Cab from my Dad. He was second owner. He had an issue with a porous engine block and used his extended warranty to replace the engine. The replacement engine was installed at 46199 miles in 2009 with a " 3.4L - 01 Carrera MAN" engine ($13196.50). What are the odds that this new engine had an upgraded IMS? The car now has 78900 miles. SO only 32k miles on this engine. Should I worry about it? I drive the car pretty hard. Any opinions are appreciated.

The consensus is that replacement engines built after ‘05 have the large single row IMS bearing. The only way to know for sure is to open it up to look at the flange. If it is the large bearing, the recommendation is to remove the grease seal that you can access by removing the flange...

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Drive it often and keep those revs up. Change your oil every 6 months or 3000 -4000 miles. When it's time to do your clutch verify what bearing you have and pull the grease seal if it's the latest big bearing. If not retro-fit with the LN Solution.

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You should start following our series on IMS bearing failure. The original owner of this 29,000 mile 996 thought in the same manner. Now he's the one that "took a bath". Come join us at 1pm ET. Here is the link. You Tube

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If you read everything I wrote you can see I answered the question what to do if you inspect the bearing and it's in perfect condition: replace or leave? In that case you don't try to fix something which is not broken. I guess in your case the owner never did the inspection (as I recommend to do) at all...

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I did read what you said As we say, "if it isn't broken, it will be." A bearing inspection is fairly worthless. When you look at the bearing you are seeing a visual snapshot of how the bearing looks today. You are spending almost as much time to access the bearing for the visual inspection, as it takes to perform some form of IMS Retrofit. The difference is you look at it, think it's good, then expect it to "last a million miles" just because it was "good" today. It doesn't work like that. Nothing mechanical ever has, or ever will. The only guarantee with anything mechanical is: -It will wear out -If it doesn't fail first. This is another example of fact over fear.

But, but... the bath tub curve....

The lack of "common sense" relating to IMSB's amazes me!

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"A bearing inspection is fairly worthless" - said by NO ONE except you. Ok mr.expert, If you ever worked (or studied) how to achieve highest possible reliability you would understand this. I mean, why not go ahead and replace everything in your way because it 'looks' good right now but of corse it will fail....every bolt on the car. Please, read up and study the subject. Aviation literature is a good place to find this information. If you just want fast information, search for "southwest flight 1380" and read about the accident and how they handled the case. Inspection before replacement, always(this goes for 'things' which fail before they time out). Don't just go bluntly replacing this stuff. And there is more than one example on this forum of aftermarket IMS bearings which have failed and killed the engine. Pulling a perfectly fine bearing and then have the replacement fail and kill the engine. And there is also examples of IMS bearing installations going **** because of inexperienced installers. IMS replacement/retrofit fails also, usually way before the original solution.

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I'm sorry, but a bearing inspection is indeed worthless. There is no way you can inspect the ***** and races and quantify the wear in any meaningful manner. Pulling the bearing would also render the bearing useless. If you are paying someone to pull the transmission and go that deep, why not replace it? If you don't want to treat the IMS bearing as a wear item, just put an IMS Solution in it and be done with it. Just matters how you value your time and what your labor costs are. Jake worked on aircraft in the military (and still volunteers his time to work on them), so yes, he knows some about aircraft.

Ok. Here we go: If the bearing could be inspected in 5 minutes, and didn't require all the same labor to inspect, as it does to replace (except the extraction/ insertion steps) then it would be a different story. The fact is that the biggest costs with the IMSR procedure are found in the labor to remove, and replace the gearbox, the clutch, the flywheel, and to make sure the engine is properly positioned to allow for safe removal of the IMS Bearing flange. All of these steps are THE SAME whether you are inspecting a bearing, or replacing it. You called me the Expert, but I'll correct you. Experts have stopped learning, so I'm no expert. Every day is a school day. That said, there has to be a place where you stop replacing components, but that isn't something that pertains to the most problematic component for an entire family of engines. As a US Marine I crewed and maintained CH46 Helicopters. I worked Flightline, and my job was the drive systems of the aircraft, this included turbine engines, gearboxes, rotor heads, and based- you name it. It's funny that you mention aviation, because its pretty clear that all you've done is read about it. If you were trained the way I was, and had my experiences, you'd have a completely different mindset, and understanding of aviation maintenance. With aviation, if it is "High time" it is replaced whether it is good, or bad. If the application/ environment is more demanding, the service life can be cut in half from an hourly perspective. Components are serialized, and they are removed and either rebuilt, or thrown away at certain hour milestones. This does not matter whether these components are good, or bad- they are "high time" and therefore must be removed, and replaced, or removed and discarded. As an example a gearbox that has perfect mag plug checks, and has never tossed a chip light is still removed at a defined interval, and sent to overhaul. With your mindset someone should just look at it, and make sure "its ok", then when the aircraft falls out of the sky, you learn why components have service lives measured in hours. Have you ever had a scenario where one of your friends ate breakfast with you, but you didn't see him for dinner because he fell out of the sky? I have, and it sucks, especially when you had worked on that aircraft a few days before. Today I am a Crewchief for an organization that keeps Vietnam era helicopters flying, so we can keep a legacy from being forgotten. We throw typical civilians in 50 year old aircraft and take them for what is typically the ride of their lives. I use my mind set, and experiences to keep these people alive, so there's no need to explain to me what you've learned in your freaking "aviation literature" regarding safety, and component replacement In regard to components used in aviation applications. My 8 year old daughter goes flying with us, and she has learned this discipline as we work together on projects with Hueys, and Cobra's. Yep, and behind each one of those you will see the "holes in the Swiss cheese" align, as they do in the old aviation training photograph I have posted below. In all of these someone either did not pre- qualify the engine properly, did not follow the protocol verbatim, or they were using the components as a "repair part" after a failure had already begun/ occurred, rather than using them as they were designed. Or, they were just an idiot with a wrench, that had no place carrying out the work, or even trying. They probably spent a lot of time "reading about how to do it", which is a fairly common trait with people that fail with these procedures. Because something else in the engine led to debris contaminated oil, or etc... Or because they screwed up the install. One time an installer left the bearing retention snap ring out. He reassembled the engine, and the bearing failed.. He said he did everything right.. When he sends me a video of the engine running, making a horrible noise, I noticed the bearing retention snap ring laying on his work bench. He left it out of the engine, and then argued with me later that the snap ring didn't come from the IMS in this engine! No, you cannot make this stuff up.. Of course, just like what would happen if people sitting around reading about aviation maintenance actually decided to go work on an aircraft. That said, what leads to more IMSR issues is over- experienced installers that try to cut corners so they can make more money. They have done it enough times that they can deviate from my protocol and get it done faster, but less completely, and with less safety. This is why I have trained,Certified Installers that are tasked with pre- qualifying engines, and ensuring that the protocol is carried out as I developed it. They have check lists, and must use a level of completeness that is normally only fund in Aviation maintenance to document their work, and findings. Here's another fact over fear bit of information: Since the IMS Solution Certified Installer program was created, in 2011 there's never been a single reported case of an IMSR bearing, or IMS Solution failing that was installed by a trained, Certified Installer. Argue with that~ If you want to cut corners, and not look at the most failure prone component in these engines, that is fine- it is your car. Just don't let those holes in the swiss cheese get you. Here's a few images for you. Yes, that's me...

Oooh, please tell me how you 'know' that? I grew up in an aviation family and owned several aircraft myself on which I've done maintenance myself. I think it's funny how you badly lack engineering skills and then try to re-engineer stuff. It's also funny how you seemingly have been involved with aviation maintenance and then ignore your experience when it coms to cars. On the picture you can see my 'mode of transportation' for many years at work(this is from a ship off shore from NOLA). I was fortunate to not be onboard this flight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHC_He...ice_Flight_241 And back to the bearing discussion. If you stop thinking about the IMSB as some black magic that hold the M96 spirit in place, and instead understand it's just a ball bearing. Things get much easier, because ball bearings have been around for more than 200 years and are well understood. You can inspect it in place: Smooth turning, no excessive play and seals in good condition. This inspection will tell you if the bearing is GOOD or BAD. There is no need to inspect the ***** or races if it passes the inspection. If the bearing is bad and you want to know why , YES, then you need to pull it and destroy it. Before I worked in the off shore I worked at SKF... I've been curiously investigating the IMSB failures this spring and have come to one conclusion. Because of the extremely short life span(just a few %....compared to the design life) some bearings see, the only plausible failure is either that the bearings was faulty at the time of installation OR that false brinneling occurred during the transportation of the car from the factory to the customer. To reach the USA the cars go on BOAT which is really good at creating false brinneling. Either way non of these failures needs a modification to the bearing, just an inspection and maybe replacement of the SAME TYPE if it is faulty. Debris in oil, wrong lubrication, acid oil, running hot etc is not good but will not kill the bearing nearly that fast.

Jake were you in service when they used walnut shells to clean parts during maintenance and had oil ports clogged with the shells and lost a few birds? Thanks for your service and keeping our history alive.

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Not to discount your experience, but we have worked with numerous bearing suppliers, manufacturers, and engineers over the years during the development of our products. Step back and ask why the dual row bearing from the factory had a 1% failure rate versus 8% for the single row under warranty. The simplest explanation is that single row bearing failures are due to insufficient load capacity. Many like to ignore this simple fact. During development of the IMS Solution, we discovered that due to how the IMS is loaded, all the load concentrates in one spot and that's where we had wear in our earlier prototypes. This would suggest that likely one ball carries most of the load at any given time and the other ***** are free wheeling. This explains why we would see flat spotted ***** and wear to the inner race in the same area on bearings time and time again. Outer race rotation, average bearing speed, excessive oil temperatures, loss of permanent lubrication, load capacity, and many other factors contribute to these failures. There are many variables to consider and why bearing failures don't always occur at any one given point in service life. If the factory had continued to use the original dual row bearing and omitted the grease seals, I truly believe they would not have had failures and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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I am not an auto engineer but have worked on classic vehicles and newer vehicles and I found it odd that they decided to go with a sealed bearing that is partially submerged in oil. Ball bearings have been used in transmissions for years and have held up fine. They aren't sealed and rely on the transmission oil to keep them lubricated. I really suspect you are correct on this assertion.

Quotes source post: 16825774

Yep, and aboard ship 'low power engines" were cleaned with doses of Coca Cola from the mess decks!

Feel free to ask me technical questions, always. 1. Insufficient load capacity This is not the case and can be explained logically and theoretically. IF it was this you would see a more consistent failure rate but the failures are sporadic and scattered. Some cars go 29k miles (and break) and (more interesting) plenty cars go 300k miles or more with not a hint of issue with the bearing, this does not logically make sense. Further, dimensioning bearings is dead simple, it is highly unlikely that they would mess it up. And the final nail in the coffin, you can reverse engineer it (which I have) and see that load capacity is not an issue....hence my statement "in excess of a million miles". 2. 1-8% failure rate When I bought my first 996 in 2015 I asked two Porsche mechanics about the IMS issue(in Sweden). Both knew about it but they had never actually seen one fail. They did do IMS replacement on customer request but it always came out nice. I have been looking for the source of this 1%-8% but can not find it. I'm inclined to think this refers to cars sold in the USA, not globally. Then you have my explanation for that failure rate above(false brinnelling). 3. One ball carries load ​​​​​​​A bearing takes just a single vector load. This is true for all and every bearing installation. The vector is stationary in the IMS bearings and as such you find wear at the same spot every time, nothing strange. How the bearing internally distributes the load is dictated by the internal design of the bearing. This is where the different bearing mfg R&D to make the perfect bearing. Nothing that a customer/user of the bearing needs to think about. SKF have Explorer or E2 series, for example, which have different design and different focus on load bearing or low friction. 4.Grease seal I would not remove it, there is nothing to indicate this would help the situation. It is rather the opposite, proven to work with the seal in place. And, I guess most people don't want to be guinea pigs for that experiment? My theory for the seal is that the engine oil is generally not clean enough for an open bearing. Gearbox oil is cleaner and a different story. This is partly based on the fact that the bearing sits in an oil bath lubrication BUT have seals. I think they intended an open bearing but went with sealed since open didn't work. On a side note, sealed bearings is easier to handle in production since they are, well, sealed. Less issue of bearing damage in the factory.

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Can you provide to the forum what your credentials, or direct IMS Bearing experiences may be? How did you gain the knowledge that is driving your aforementioned recommendations? Basically, who are you, what have you done, and how has it been proven? Thank you.

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Actually, your number is way off... It's like more than 500 years. One of my favorite seminars was on Leonardo Da Vinci. It's amazing the things this man dreamed up on paper and physical models. http://www.leonardodavincisinvention...-ball-bearing/ And so are you advising that all Porsche M96 owners just simply drop the transmission, remove the clutch kit, and flywheel and do a simple inspection routinely? What inspection intervals do you recommend?

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I'm no mechanical engineer, but over the years most of the respectable shops have testified that the factory bearings in this application lose their packed grease over time from the seals shrinking and oil washing out the grease. What do you think about that? It's really hard to take your opinion over many shops/companies like Hartech, Callas Rennsport, Flat 6 Innovations, LN Engineering, etc over you. Change my mind.

It really is hard to teach someone that already knows it all.

Who I am or what I have done is irrelevant, you don't need to trust me. What I write can be double checked rather easily. As soon as you start caring who I am you stop thinking by yourself and discussions like this ends up in "who said what" instead of what's being said. Bearing life time etc can now days be calculated easily online: skfbearingselect.com (deep grove ball bearing 6204, Radial load 400N, temps up to 100-120c, rpm between 300-3500...play around with the lubrication, loads, rpm and seals) I've asked Charles in a previous thread about the input from his bearing life time calculation. Do you care to share that? Bearing failures? I like this guide, start from the top and go thru one by one and judge if it is applicable: https://www.schaeffler.com/remotemed...ures_us_en.pdf There is one case which is not mentioned in the PDF and that is if the lubrication is too thin for the RPM. This results in a bearing with lots of play in it. Combine these tools with some mechanical experience, pictures(or real) of broken IMS bearings and you will quickly be able to rule out what it can be or not. I'm I correct? I'm human and humans makes errors...it would be nice if someone could, on a technical level, challenge/check my theory. Good question. As said, you don't need to trust me, use the SKF tool above and try what happens if you run the bearing using 110c 5w40(the viscosity's you find in your oil datasheet). With my oil the life time goes down compared to grease but it's still "in excess of a million miles". Running on oil or grease is not the reason they die so quickly. The problem when oil gets in is that it brings debris/contamination, that is a bit harder to estimate using some life time tools.( There are ISO standards for it but I'm not sure how well they replicate dirty engine oil.) Like, what happens if a pieces of tensioner plastic get stuck between the *****? And, how contaminated is the oil really? I don't want to test either of those two so I want my seals to stay in place. If you go thru the guide above(and use the SKF tool) you will, like me, understand that there is no lubrication or overheating issues to be concerned about. What I read here on the forum Porsche recommends zero inspections but I'm a bit more conservative and say you probably would like to do it once. Especially if your car is far away from Germany and/or not that well taken care of. Make sure the bearing in place is pristine and you don't have to care about it again. Change oil frequently, make sure the cooling works well and use OEM air/oil filters and your good.

No. It doesn't work the way. If someone lacks any direct experience with these engines, and their IMS Bearings, their statements lack basis, and can't be considered recommendations. It seems like another classic case of "parrotism" where you are reading things in one place, twisting them around in your brain housing group, then stating hem here as fact. The readers here then believe that the things you are stating are your actual views, based on your direct experience. You have no direct experience, and therefore it is impossible to challenge mine. Thank you.

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How many m96 engines have your torn down and built back up?

Quotes source post: 16826942

Do you even own a 996? Just wondering if you have any cards in the game?

Quotes source post: 16828374

This is a reoccurring question so i might just answer that. An engine builder/assemblers task is to put an engine together, tear down and build up. Much like you learn in the army to take apart your gun and put it together you need practice working with it to become good. An engineers task is to construct and design the engine, the more you do it the better you become. To do this you don't need to see the engine(but it might help some times), you just need to understand how an engine should be built. Think about it. The team which design the M96(or plenty of other engines) only got to see it some years after they started their design work. You can't tear apart and build something that does not exist. Builders and engineers both work on the same stuff but in different ways. Circling back to the IMS bearing. Since I own a 996 (my second) and I have the general layout of the chain drives etc etc I can easily analyse it. Engineering work. No need to build or tear apart, it is not relevant for this work. Actually I'm doing it to avoid tearing it down or having problems with it...or throwing my money away on useless stuff. I think it's not just me who is interested in that.

Quotes source post: 16828866

Yes I do, it's my second: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-new-life.html

Quotes source post: 16828893

Ok - so you are what we call; "book smart". Theories, tables, equations, and charts. This bearing , has a fairly well defined set of parameters and loads - as EXPECTED over its life cycle. Guess what? All the understanding in the world of how an engine should be built does not equate to getting it right on the drawing board. What you, and the Porsche engineers seemed to, have missed is that there are several other factors in-play that were not properly accounted for. There are more axial and radial forces exerted on the IMSB than the designers figured on. There are many other factors, as well. You have mentioned them yourself (oil contamination and high heat). You can consult all the SKF calculations you want. The real world is a whole different place. Your engineering work doesn't mean **** until you actually live it. I don't think you have ever lived in the real world.

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How do you know this, please explain. Can you quantify it and explain where these forces come from? And I hope you are aware that in the engineering process there is also real life testing, an important part. What engineering basically does is help you minimise unforeseen issues during the testing part, rapidly accelerating time to develop stuff. Then ONLY thing I wanted to know was: Is the bearing strong(load vs life) enough or not. Answer is: yes, it is. Knowing this makes a lot of difference. I don't need a stronger bearing, just needs to be protected. And seeing that some cars go very long indicates that it's basically boils down to taking care of your car. Unless you had a faulty bearing for whatever reason from the beginning hence you might want to inspect it. If you value real life on road testing, i highly doubt anyone comes close to hours/miles that Porsche did during the development.

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With all due respect, the problem is, you don't know the full history of the car unless you're the original owner...You can't inspect the bearing unless you can see and touch it right? So why not replace it and start fresh once you're in there? It makes no sense to do all that's needed to access the IMSB and not replace it! The big expense is getting to the bearing, not the cost of the replacement IMSB. Who decided that 15,000 mile oil changes was a good idea, an engineer?

My daughter is looking at 2 996 Cabriolets in the Sarasota/Tampa area. I have a 2001 996 with the aerokit. When I bought my 996 about 10 years ago I looked at the IMS numbers and determined that it was on the good list plus it's a 3.4. I have now lost the link to the IMS S/N list. I'm not complaining but it used to be easy to find in here. Can anybody point me in the right direction of the 996 IMS S/N list? Also any feedback on the Porsche Dealer in Tampa?

Quotes source post: 16830409

Yes, your starting to understand the problematics here. You need to touch and see the bearing to inspect it.(on a side note: there is instrument that can detect bearing failure via vibration frequency but non have been tested/tuned on the M96 engine to my knowledge). Many people have been in the same situation(for any kind of mechanical thing): why not replace it when it's just in front of you? The two issues with this: Can you properly install it? and is the new part free from manufacturing issues?The old part have been in operation and possibly proven to be good. The odds: Is the old bearing going to be more reliable than a new bearing and it's installation. Looking at the M96(with the small 6204 bearing): The 6204 are mass produced and the risk of receiving a faulty bearing is minimal. The risk is that you may contaminate or/and not install correctly. For high reliability the faulty part/contaminate/incorrect installation is a higher risk than to keep the old part if it shows no signs of wear or damage...tho the difference here might be marginal. Regarding the 15,000mile oil change. Yeah, I tend to agree with you on that one but if you read the manual they say shorter intervals for sever driving conditions. 15,000mil is the maximum...which plenty of owners have regarded as the de facto change interval. Porrsha: There is no IMS S/N list for the original bearings which is reliable. The general consensus is that cars built 98/99 have the dual row bearing which have had less issues than the later(00 some time and later) single row. The IMS bearings is just one part of the car and let it not decide which car to get. Later cars have many improvements on the engine and other wise. Which ever 996 you get, it's a good idea to have the bearing inspected (if not already done) and replace it(with the same type) if it show any sign of damage or wear. Edit: maybe you where thinking about this one https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...-mar-12-a.html

Quotes source post: 16832193

01 had the most IMSB failures if I recall correctly.

I recently replaced it immediate shaft bearing and used set screws as a back up for the cam lock such. I noticed, while bumping in the new bearing in place that the set screws had to be continuously tightened to maintain the position. Does anyone know if this means the intermediate shaft has been pushed backwards? Logic dictates that it has. But my question is, will it return to its original position under normal operating conditions?

Quotes source post: 16832614

How do you read the ranges? For example: WP0AA299 74S620062 - WP0AA299 34S623041 7 is after 3, yet the first in the range. WP0AA299 X2S620005 - WP0AA299 22S624193 So... X comes before 2 here? WP0AA299 35S620061 - WP0AA299 25S620245 3 is after 2, but first in the range Luckily, my VIN looks like it is in a clear range: WP0AA29961S.... in the range of WP0AA299 03S620063- WP0AA299 93S624175 (right?)

Quotes source posts: 16828893, 16828374

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Hi, I am new to the forum, and I am in the search of a 987.1 Cayman 2006-2008. I read a lot about the IMS issue but I would like some feedback on the following statement found online. " Porsche models are prone to IMS failure and would benefit from an IMS upgrade....987 Cayman & Boxster models up to engine number 61504715 " Is this true? if it is, what did Porsche do differently on M97 engines after engine number 61504715? Is it only for the BASE model or also for the S? Thank you!

Quotes source post: 16934927

The Porsche 987 model year 2006 and beyond will have the 6305 large single row bearing. It has proven itself to be the most robust, durable of all three designs. I wouldn't worry about it.

I have recently decided to purchase a 996 and therefore have Been researching the IMS and bore scoring issues ( my head is swimming). Based on the recommendations that higher revs operation would lessen the chance of bore scoring my question is how does a manual vs auto transmission play into this?

Quotes source post: 16939269

The transmission is NOT apart of the bore scoring equation. You should watch the entire 10-part series on YouTube... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...iZKhfNjeTXaRkn

Quotes source post: 16939269

Go back and review, you've mixed a couple of things up...

Is the Pelican Parts IMSB replacement method using set screws without locking timing a reliable one? I can't find much on it at all.

Quotes source post: 17108483

^^^ NO

I used it in a pinch and it worked for me. I was concerned though that as I snugged down the set screws the IS was pressed back a bit. I can tell you that the Porsche tool is available for rent. I went through Glenn at Specialty Auto Tool Rental.

I'm gathering the final parts for my winter maintenance. Purchased the Pelican IMSB and realized it doesn't come with a flange - just a seal. Do I need to replace my ims flange with an updated version or will the new seal fit in the original flange? I have no idea if mine has been updated at this point.

The Pelican kit comes with both the early and late seal; if you want to update the flange to have one with the newer triple lip seal, you'd have to buy a new one from Porsche or find a used one with the updated seal design.

Well, my plan was to replace my IMSB with the Pelican bearing with the intention of replacing it on an interval - 2-3 years possibly (about 5-8k km a year.) I just discovered that I have a dual row in my 01 and it feels even more firm rolling than the Pelican IMSB that I was planning to install. Would you guys put an old bearing back in or just go ahead with replacing? I went with the Pelican kit because I can't justify the prices of the other kits (yes I will certainly regret it if I ever have an IMSB failure.) I have a shop and tools to do this job on an interval so I figured the Pelican kit was best for me. I have a leaking RMS anyway so I had to get in there. It has the updated RMS and 3 row flange seal, I can only assume the previous owner decided to keep the dual row and just replace seals and clutch. Is it even an IMSB job without a pic?

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First of all, once the IMS bearing is extracted from the shaft, never reinstall it. The structure of the bearing is compromised. If you just discovered it's a dual row bearing and you haven't extracted it, then the choice is yours regarding "rolling the dice" or not. Personally, even though the bearing is the more robust dual row, it has still been in service for more than 20 years. It is time to replace it. If you don't want to worry about it again, then install the LN Engineering IMS Solution and be done with it.

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Good enough point, I keep forgetting that with this car

Quotes source post: 17253859

I�m still pretty new to Porsches but have been a mechanic and in the car hobby my entire life. Okay my first memories of helping dad on race cars starts at age five. The car hobby changed with the internet. A lot of the car websites were bought up by a big IT company to make money on ads. Another investment company bought up a bunch of marquee independent parts shops including Turner, ECS, and Pelican. The owners cashed out, a lot of the employees left or were cut, and the knowledge and experience these companies had is gone or greatly diminished, For that reason, you need to be really careful what you buy and from where. About 6 months ago, I bought name brand Porsche 944 engine mounts with a lifetime guarantee from a reputable vendor. They were absolute junk. I ended up having to pay a huge price for genuine a Porsche ones. I hated it, but it was the right thing to do. Would I use the Pelican bearing kit? Not likely. The problem is that you are now stuck between a rock and a hard place. You pulled your bearing out to find out it�s in good shape. That�s great. Now you have to make the potentially $20,000 decision what to put in it�s place. Good luck.

Quotes source post: 17253859

You are a fool runnng an idiots errand. You have pulled your dual row IMSB. You cannot re-install it because now it is damaged. Take my advise - pony up for the LN Solution NOW and be done with this problem. Do you not see a bit of a dollar differential between "yeah, I'll just pull everything apart every 2-3 years and replace" rather one time cost, one time installation, one time done. Oh, and how many other things can go wrong dropping the transmission and engine for IMSB replacement every 2 years. I think this is a stupid idea and a bad choice. Oh, and have you read any of the other posts in this thread? Okay...done...rant over. It is all just my humble opinion anyway. And also, you own a Porsche. Own up to the cost of doing it right, correctly and perfect this first time. I am so looking forward to paying the cost of an upcoming CT scan and cancer biopsy. It's the price one has to pay to keep living. It is the price you pay to keep your car living....get it?

As others have said, I'd really steer clear of the Pelican option. It's not the ideal solution and just think of the time it will take you to do this job every 2-3 years. Time is money. It does look like LN did take the prices up quite a bit on their retrofit as it is $900 now. The shop that did my replacement charged me $680 for the part. If cost is really an issue I'd suggest the EPS IMS as an option at about $580. That's what came out of my car and after about 55k miles it looked to be in perfect shape with zero play of any kind. It's a Porsche and ownership really won't be cheap but if you have the time, space and tools to do it yourself you're saving a decent chunk on labor. Get the good parts.

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I quickly ruled out the Pelican bearing as being little better than Porsches OEM. Maybe it is, maybe not, but not worth the cost/benefit. Plus One on the EPS bearing, it was an easy self install for my dual-row replacement last month at 54k miles with new clutch, etc. They claimed to never have had a failure so I did all the google research I could and couldn't find a single one. I noticed the LN prices just keep going up. I even saw a post from about 5 years ago that someone paid $800* for the "solution" that is now priced at $1,900!. So all the development costs were recovered long ago, the sum cost of the parts are likely less than a couple hundred bucks and yet the price has more than doubled, not even counting the expensive "pre-qualification", tools, etc so I had to pass on it. EPS prices went up something like 30% during this time too, but still relatively reasonable (imho). * Edited - I can't find the post of someone purchasing the "Solution" for just $800. I could be wrong, they could be wrong, or it could have been an ebay purchase.

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Just for clarification, the IMS Solution has never been $800. When first released it debuted at $1725. People often refer to the retrofit as the solution in error, hence your confusion.

05 996 C4s MT - 75k miles - NOT removing the heads - no maintenance records when purchased at 59k miles four years ago. Wish Porsche would download maintenance records according to VIN. Tried when I purchased the car. Getting ready to do the IMS bearing and have the 996 LN Eng. Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit kit I purchased from Pelican last fall. Where can I rent or borrow the correct tools required to perform the IMS and RMS including the cam lock tools? I don't want another huge investment for the tools (no plans on doing this again). I'm located in Maryland. Dropping the engine and trans to do the IMS, RMS, clutch/PP/bearing/flywheel,/bolts updated clutch fork and UAOS. While in there want to replace the plugs, coils, injectors, oil pressure relief valve/spring O-ring, chain adjusters, chain guides/paddle, cam lugs, oil pressure switch, heat exchanger, upstream O2 sensors, water pump/bolts/thermostat/hoses with plastic ends/T's, pully belt tensioners, MM, guibo, and associated hoses, O-rings, gaskets, bolts, washers. Parts count and $ is not insignificant to do this work. Great car I plan to have for awhile. Appreciate the forums thoughts and advice! Cheers, Glenn

I got the tools at [email removed] One thing to note if you haven�t already, Porsche uses �stretch� bolts that are single use only. Do your research.

Quotes source post: 17293724

The retro-fit will need to be done again, why not install the LN Solution?

Quotes source post: 17295246

Concur. I was already budgeting in a Solution when I was looking for mine. That budget quickly...expanded.

I'm still trying to get a feel for the current condition of the motor. Be that I didn't find much in the pan when I dropped it recently or in the filter, I'm encouraged. I don't know how much use the photos were from sump. That was far more difficult than anticipated. I hope to see the results of the oil analysis next week. Mine being a 03 tip and likely having to drop the motor to do the ims, may as well as go all the way to the solution. Need more info first. AOS, RMS too at the same time, plus a bunch hoses etc, maybe sensors too.

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LN Solution, do it once and never worry about it again.

I understand that Porsche upgraded the IMS design mid year 2005 in the Boxsters. I have a 2005 Boxster S and am trying to confirm that I have the new style bearing. Can I do this check using my VIN somehow? Other tagging on the car that can help me? Thanks!!

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I would make the assumption that the bearing is replaceable. Regardless, you should have whatever shop you do the work at the bare minimum remove the grease seal off the original bearing if you end up having the larger, non-serviceable bearing: https://lnengineering.com/products/t...s-bearing.html

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This might be equally unpopular to the single row Pelican bearing option, but I like it, and have done it twice. You can relatively easily find a 5204 2RS bearing (3204 is also the same as 5204) for about $50, which is a double row bearing. The difference between that and what you pulled out is the extra width where the spring groove sits (you will not find one with the machined groove, but it is possible to find one with the same width without the machined groove). The Pelican kit will work with a 5204 2RS, with a slight modification to the inner race spacer.

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Thanks for the info. I decided to just go with the IMS Solution afterall. While a pretty easy job, I don't want to be doing it again lol

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This is really the way it should be, and to go further, I think there is a "generic" cylindrical option as well for about the same price. I went with one of the branded cylindrical bearings only because when I sell the car I think it would be difficult to explain to any degree of a buyer's satisfaction that the bearing is good to go even if it has no name. I could not and still have not found anyone claiming a failure of any of the cylindrical bearings. I will add that the "Solution" is heavily discounted on ebay for over 30% off by the very manufacturer but under a different store name (type4store). They claim it is an "open box" or a "return" but I know someone who got a new sealed kit and got a deal on the tool rental from LN with no expensive prequalification, etc. Or, are they really selling "returns" that might be of a lessor quality. There are other ebay vendors selling at a discount too. Regardless, I wouldn't feel great about ever paying full price for "The Solution". Kinda sucks that vendors do this, but they do.

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Any kits sold on eBay in our Type4Store account are units that for one reason or another that have been flagged as having a small cosmetic imperfection or blemish but are otherwise 100% functional and have no damage or issue with them that would affect their performance (as stated in the auctions). This could be as simple as an imperfection on the anodizing on the spin on oil filter adapter. As far as the pricing, we try to price match as best we can the other eBay sellers that are reselling our kits to give people the option of saving a few dollars on a kit if they are ok with a blem and still be able to buy them from the source. However, we do not offer free tool rental with kits sold through eBay - that is reserved for customers purchasing through LN's retail site. We started doing this only after several people called with bad experiences with other eBay sellers selling damaged or previously sold (and even fitted) parts.

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Hello, Just became the new owner of a 996.1! Excited and loving every corner so far! I've read just about everything on the 996 good and bad and have come to a good opinion that this 911 is the sweet spot. I know just about all the history of this vehicle, but this last line you spoke of with the replacement engine being different, can you elaborate at all on this? It's been quite sometime now since you stated this and was wonder if more is known? My 996.1 had an warranty OEM engine replacement from Porsche, so I am curious as what could be different about it. Happy to be here and excited to possible see any of you at meets!

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Depends on when the replacement was built. After 05 I think, the bigger 997 bearing. The only way to know for sure is to see it.

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My 02 had a replacement engine in 2013 by Porsche with only 17k mikes on it. I bought it last year from second owner with 43k. For piece of mind I had the IMS checked, RMS replaced and clutch checked. My replacement engine was an 05 with captured Ims but all current Porsche upgrades. My Indy said no reported failures on my bearing and drive it! I will monitor oil and replace it more often.

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What do you mean by "captured IMS"?

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Late 05 engines to end of series had a different case from Porsche. To replace an IMS in these later engines the case has to be split. Who knows why they did this.

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They knew they had a problem and changing the case casting wouldn't have been feasible, but redesigning the IMS was easily done. The larger 6305 non-serviceable bearing increased load capacity to match the original dual row bearing but had the added benefit of increasing surface speed for the ***** during operation. The increased surface speed reduces the lubrication requirements and also extends the life of the bearing.

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I'm still don't know what you mean by "captured IMS", but I think I follow you now. Porsche updated the intermediate shaft with the mk2 996 3.6L VarioCam engine. Along with that came the dreaded 6204 small single-row bearing which was the most failure-prone and was phased out in '05. Then, starting with the 2006 model 997, Porsche introduced another updated shaft with the most robust bearing - the 6305 large single row. From what we know, Porsche recognized the 6204 couldn't handle the load within this application and replaced it with the 6305 bearing. Therefore, I'm assuming you mean the 6305 bearing because it can not be extracted like the original dual row nor the 6204 single row. Correct?

Pretty simple. Captured/enclosed in the case. aka not removable. Well unless you want to drill the case

Hi all, I recently purchased a 1999 996. The original engine was replaced in 2008 with a new engine from Porsche due to catastrophic failure in the original engine. The new engine has about 60k miles on it and it has a "Machining date" (at least that's what Google translate says it is) of September 18, 2007. Which IMSB do you think this engine has? It seems that it was manufactured after the new engines started getting the updated bearings, but it also has the throttle cable instead of drive-by-wire so I'm not sure what to think. If it helps, the SN is M96.01AT66X67216 Thanks Brent

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With a build date in 2007 I would be fairly confident it has the larger, non-serviceable bearing. Best practice is to remove the grease seal off the existing bearing to allow the engine oil to better lubricate it as outlined here: https://lnengineering.com/products/t...s-bearing.html

Anyone know the cost...? I'm looking at a 2005 911 Carrera (Tip) with less than 35,000 miles. Doesn't appear to have IMS updated. What's the approx cost, in total, to get it updated with the "solution"? It has a build date of 4-4-2004 - so I'm assuming it using the old stuff from 996 models.

Hi all, I just picked up my first 996. It's a 1999 with a 1998 build date, so it should have the dual row bearing. It currently has 116k miles. I'm the fourth owner, and it was serviced by a Porsche dealership for the first 15 years of it's life. At 77k miles, the clutch was replaced by the dealership, but no IMS. I know this is really my call, but given that it's a 1999, dual row, seems well driven and well taken care of, I'm having a hard time deciding. Any thoughts?

I'd recommend waiting 20k miles, then do the clutch and IMS bearing at the same time

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That's kind of what I was thinking. Clutch feels really good right now though, so not sure it will need replacing in 20k.

Quotes source post: 17423147

That's kind of what I was thinking. Clutch feels really good right now though, so not sure it will need replacing in 20k.

That could certainly be the situation, but you'll also probably have a better idea of how the car is performing and you can decide from there. I've pulled two 20 year old double row bearings out (with lower mileage) and they were both fine, but I was doing the clutches anyways.

I�m brand new to the 996. Although I�ve been wrenching on and driving 928�s for 10 years. Just shook on a deal to buy a 2000 996 Tip / Cab with very low miles from the son of the original owner. Pretty much a one owner car and in EXCELLENT condition. Drives, accelerates, handles & stops like a new car. My concern is the IMSB has not been replaced & the ill-informed owner has not changed the oil in 8 years. It has 7K miles on the Mobil 1 full synthetic so I�m HOPEFUL he didn�t screw up the IMSB thinking synthetic oil doesn�t have a shelf life. Ugh!!!! Of course, I�m sending the oil off to Blackstone for analysis prior to sealing the deal. Already reached out to the only LD solution certified tech in Ohio to replace the IMSB. Approximately $3500 on the automatic� Ouch! Otherwise the car is immaculate and the IMSB replacement was factored into the price. Anything else I should look for while under the car on a lift? Under the bonnet? Interior? Hidden problems? Etc? Thanks in advance!! Joel

8 years!!! I suggest you start a thread and see what the experts think. 7,000 in 8 years on the same oil can't be good. As for the "while in there" stuff....UAOS (new product invented by @Porschetech3 , RMS, and water pump come to mind. Really think this car needs its own thread. Good Luck.

Has anyone in the Cincinnati area had the IMS Solution installed?

Certified Installers – IMS Solution (theimssolution.com)

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Thanks but the only certified installer in Indiana, Ohio and Kentucky seems to be out of business.

Maybe reach out to LN Engineering? They might be able to help since they sell it.

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Is Jeff at Kraftwerks in Marengo, OH no longer doing business out of his shop? He's a certified installer and that's where I had a retrofit done back in 2017.

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Jeff is one of the higher volume IMS Solution Certified Installers. He does an excellent job, and has never had an infraction. He was one of the original installers, and has been doing the work since the IMS Solution was released. I invited him to the IMS Solution Certified Installer program before the product was even released to the public. He is still doing this work, and he is still listed on the IMS Solution website as a Certified Installer.

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My bad, I was going by the link on the website and it appeared to no longer be in service. I'll call him and make an appointment! Thanks for your help.

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Did a quick Google search and his website looks like it's timing out, maybe that's why OP thought there's no one near. I agree, he did an excellent job and was very communicative on the status of the work being performed. The only reason I'd care to still be stuck in OH is so I could have him do some additional work, great guy all around and highly recommend to anyone when I get the chance.

17y as a tech, seen two IMSB failures. You Tube

FWIW as a data point: My last 1999 996 C2 had a factory remanufactured engine (Serial Number M96/01AT66X67023) had the larger 6305 IMSB where I removed the outer seal when I did a clutch job. My current 1999 996 C4 also has a factory remanufactured engine (Serial Number M96/04AT66Y65546) must have come with the 5204 bearing since the previous owner provided a service record from an indy shop that stated the IMS was replaced with a "106-08.4" bearing, which is the LNE number for the dual-row retrofit. I did look up the Vin number of the car on the LNE site, and it came up with no record of this replacement. Would that be because the shop was not a certified installer?

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If there is no record on the LN database, that means the installation was not registered with us. Has nothing to do whether the shop was certified or not. Here is more info about the database and registration process: https://lnengineering.com/ims-lookup.html

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does anyone know if lms fails will my engine still run and knock cos mine is doing just that. ls it the lms ? h hmm lm confused. 🤔

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l.bought a 996 with 55 k onit it the previous owner assured me theblms had been done there was a receipt in the glove box plus labels ie stickers stating it had a ln engineering retro fit bearing replaced in 2015 . l ..l.manged to get the car gor $12500. 1 year later after. driving it on a regular basis l.hear a screaching sound and shortly after a knocking sound l was gutted . my car is sat at a repair shop. awaiting diagnosis . but lm fearing the worst. yes u guessed it lms issues. ? so lf l were you get it done as it looks like lm in for a hefty bill . for a rebuild. 10k or more . maybe 15k.for a rebuilt motor so pls get it done you don't want it to go it's catastrophic when lt goes it completely trashes your engine. enjoy ur porsche while u can.

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^^^ OMG! What does this ^^^ even mean? There are many things that can cause a screeching sound (any of the pulleys, idler, water-pump, ac compressor, alternator etc...). There are also several other modes of catastrophic engine failure that aren�t related to the IMS(B). If you�re really looking for help and not just venting, you have to give a little more specific info.

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, so please correct me if this isn't. I had seen an old YouTube video from several years ago showing that the bags of the Pelican Parts IMSB Kit were mislabeled in terms of Single Row versus Double Row parts. It was a matter of having the wrong letter "S" or "D" on the outside of the bag. I bought the kit last week and installed the IMSB today. The bags were properly labeled for the most part, but the V-groove spacers were switched. The large one, which is supposed to be for the Single Row version, was in the bag of Double Row parts, and vice versa. Seems that labeling issues have continued throughout the years. This is not a huge issue for most, but I'm sure someone out there will have a very frustrating day second guessing themselves when they get to the point of the center nut bottoming out without touching the spacer, and that's assuming they noticed! I hope this helps someone, and of course, I hope Pelican goes through their inventory to correct the problem and ensure accurate labeling

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@Charles Navarro I am going to hop on the website later but I bought my car a little over a year ago. I have all the LN paperwork, barcode, etc on file as well as the work order from the shop that did the work in 2018. It does not show up on the registry though. Is there a way to get this submitted so it can be loaded in there? Thanks!

Submitted the data online and still have the original bearing and card with the sticker on it. Just want to make sure before I mail that in, that it is worth it.

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If you send the bearing and card in, it will get processed and put into the database, but being that it was installed back in 2018, there is no warranty and submitting the registration at this point would just document that the work was done if you did plan on selling the car.

Got it. That is all good. I think it is still important to show that it is in the car. Thanks!

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I had the IMSB Solution installed by a local certified Porsche shop a few months ago. I thought that the registration process, as well as shipping the old bearing back, would be part of the process for a certified shop. After not seeing my info show up on the database I just scanned my work order in and registered it myself, albeit longer than the 30 days allowance per your website. I assume that the shop actually sent the bearing back, being a certified shop, but the process can be clarified that the shop sends the bearing in but it is the owners responsibility to put all the information into the website.

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When we do an LN IMS update, we always send the bearing back and register on the website. SOP. We are not a certified shop but still follow all the same protocols.

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That's what I was expecting my certified shop to do: send in the bearing and register my IMSS and vehicle. But after 4 months of checking the LN website to see if my VIN or IMSS# came up I just decided to do the website registration myself to at least get my data in there. Don't know if the potential slowdown is due to my shop or LN reviewing the submitting for publication.

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It must be different for different shops. I had mine done at a certified shop and they just handed me the paperwork and my old bearing with the box and told me I needed to send it in and register it. It sounds like you kinda got left hanging.

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The registration process is two step. The online portion must be done first then then the bearing with the registration card must be mailed to LN. When we get the bearing in, then we review the submissions and make the registration entry public. However after 4 months, we should have received the bearing and processed the registration, so I'd go back to the installer for more info.

I picked up a 2003 996 a month ago with 53K miles. Records show the RMS and IMS were changed at 48K miles back in 2013. The invoice simply states the IMS was replaced with "an updated unit" which cost $650. Any idea what IMS bearing this might be and what should I be looking to do in the future? I am currently addressing some small issues such as bad cats and a malfunctioning oil level sensor otherwise the car runs like a top. Awaiting on oil analysis results.

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The only IMS bearing replacement being used regularly at that time would have been the IMS Retrofit, which by virtue of being a 2003, it would have had a classic single row IMS retrofit fitted. You should plan on having that bearing replaced as it is far beyond its recommended service interval. LN does offer a mail in rebate if you are replacing an IMS Retrofit bearing as part of recommended maintenance. Details are on https://imsrebates.com/

Well oil analysis results show all measurements below what is average for this engine class. In fact they called it a well maintained engine. Now I can proceed with fixing the few things wrong as well as refreshing the suspension. I will, sometime in the future, replace the current IMSB when I need clutch work.

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Which reminds me... I need to send in my IMSB and register on line. In the meantime, I'd advise caution when relying SOLELY upon an Oil Analysis to determine if your IMSB needs to be replaced. Prior to purchase, I sent in my oil for analysis and it came back with a clean bill of health (much like yours) which was almost too good. My car is a early 2000 with the stock dual bearing so I figured "We're GOOD!" Fortunately, I already scheduled the IMSB Solution and UAOS work done so I sent her in anyway. Upon inspection, the bearing wasn't BAD, but it wasn't GOOD either as it had quite a bit of play in it... My Indy said it was a good thing I brought it in. Oil analysis are nice, but the results should be considered "with a grain of salt" as far as IMSBs are concerned. Just my experience and $0.02 worth of advice.

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Spot on. Used oil analysis cannot be used as a reliable way to determine IMS bearing health due to particle size. Blackstone picks ups up particles up to 5 microns and SPEEDiagnostix gets you up to 10 micron, but IMS debris is much longer. Plus you won't see any visible debris until the grease seal has failed on the original bearing. Your best best is still to inspect the filter, drop the oil pan, and use a magnetic drain plug as your first indicator of ims bearing health.

This is from my 2003 C4S, 41,xxx miles. No metal in the oil filter, or in the pan. Sorry about the blurriness. The IMS was pulled earlier this week. It appeared that the seal was leaking a bit around the fitting, but never was enough to leave drips under the car. The IMS itself looks good from a cursory inspection.The seals seem intact and it turns very freely.

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Have you removed the seals to see if there still is grease? When I did my 03 at 31K mi. There was no grease, so the bearing was infiltrated with motor oil. After I washed-out the oil with solvent, the bearing felt a little rough, but no metal shedding. I was definitely at stage 1 of bearing failure.

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Could you please describe how I remove the seals? I was under the assumption that I needed to send it to LN so can "certify" it.

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Take a small flat blade screwdriver and pry off both seals, then wash bearing with solvent or brake cleaner.

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Ok. Thanks.

Here are some improved shots of my recently removed IMS bearing. To the extent I can perform a non-invasive examination, it appears to be in very good condition. I understand I am required to send the old bearing to LN for their examination, and not disassemble it beforehand. This one appears to have plenty of life left. However, we have installed the LN entry level replacement, not the "solution". So hopefully this will ensure many thousands of worry free miles, at least on that part...

Did you replace the IMSB yourself, or did a shop do it. Reason I ask, is it's my understanding that there will be no warranty if you do it, so why bother sending them the bearing? I'm not bashing LN for this, in fact I'm doing this early next month, and purchased the LN kit as well, even with the understanding of the warranty thing. If I'm wrong on this (that would be awesome) I'd like to know. Copied from the LN website: IMPORTANT: Your registration must be submitted within 30 days of installation . To activate your free warranty, you must comply with all pre-qualification and registration requirements and read and agree with IMS Retrofit / IMS Solution Limited Warranty Terms and Conditions. Registrations that are incomplete and / or submitted outside timeframes established in Limited Warranty Terms & Conditions will not be accepted. Limited Warranty on IMS upgrade kits cannot be activated with DIY installations. Shop documentation and pre-qualification procedure are required as outlined in our Terms & Conditions . Greg

When I replaced my ISMB with the the LN solution, the factory bearing felt fine until I removed the two seals, then removed the motor oil from the bearing by soaking it in solvent. The bearing sounded noisy and had slight play in the center stud. I had 31K miles when changed.

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I had the local Porsche dealer do the install, along with a long list of other preventative maintenance items. I spoke with LN yesterday to obtain the wheres and whens on the submit. We had no problem with the pre install inspections.

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I didn't disassemble the bearing as I understand LN doesn't want me to do that. The question I have is will LN inform me of their findings after they look it over.

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No, we do not report back findings or send confirmation that the bearing was received. The bearings are disassembled, photographed, and the data is put into our database which our current backlog is taking 60-90 days. The database can be searched at http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/

I bought my car 2 weeks ago, 40 Jahre. Has fairly extensive service history and receipts, PO took it to the dealer to have the clutch replaced 12k miles ago at the 60K miles service ...they told him "they inspected the IMS and it looked fine, nothing in the oil, and borescope confirmed everything was as it should be." Went to the Indy yesterday to talk about it and installing some coilovers, he told me "if that dealer didn't put it in the service report receipt, they didn't do it...regardless of what the service advisor says. Dealerships are all about paper trail, and if it's not documented, it didn't get inspected." Looked at the receipt...nope, no mention of IMS inspection or replacement, but did mention borescope and oil analysis. What a waste of labor to put in a new clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing without doing the IMS. And the ambiguity of it not having it in writing that they checked it also kind of sketches me out. So rather than buy coilovers and get them installed, I made the appointment for an IMS Solution and bought that yesterday....it gets installed on Valentines day....how fitting I decided on the Solution compared to the bearing because I plan on keeping the car for awhile, but also, I feel like the sample size for an IMS retrofit is too small comparative to failures (sorry, materials engineer in me)....we're talking about millions of cars compared to thousands of bearings and even less catastrophic failures....and it's still a bearing. I replace $500 ISO ceramic bearings on bicycles almost daily; they still fail, it's a bearing. I have a bit more peace of mind with no moving parts there and it being oil fed. Besides, if you do the service interval or replace at the end of of the warranty for the bearing, it's the same cost as the Solution. While it may have a 75K service interval, it only has a warranty of 24k...that seems a bit weird to me...I'll go with the unlimited miles option. And yeah, I've read everything ad nauseum...even at the high end of 8%, failure is HIGHLY unlikely...but 92%...eh, that's a lower percentage than I'm comfortable with when we're talking spending $3k or spending $20k on an increasingly harder to find motor (compared to years past).

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I'm planning a nickies case with LN. Will I get registered if the solution is installed onto a bare block with Nickies pistons and rods and other parts from LN?

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Usually we don't register the bearings since we mostly deal with shops sending us a block and we don't have the vin or any other details, but if you can provide those to us we can certainly register your IMS bearing at time of purchase.

IMSB won this year. I�m at 80,000 miles and the car never felt better but�. I�m sick of worrying about it. RMS DOES leak a bit, but has for ten years. Clutch feels good as new. Oil checked out fine, removing the pan and poking around yielded a clean bill of health. No ticking. No smoke. No soot. No CEL. No nothin�. Running temp dead solid steady. Taking the oil filler cap off while running suggests the AOS is fine. Anyway, New RMS, IMS and clutch here we come. St Andrew�s will have to be seen on TV this year. My busy Indy has the work scheduled for the same day the British Open starts. How�s that for salt in the wound?

Oil leaked out due to IMS retrofit oil line Has anyone heard of this issue? I searched and could find no evidence of it. But apparently it happened to my 996 resulting in hemorrhage of oil due to a failure of the line/hose that delivers oil to the retrofit IMS bearing on 2000 996. To fix requires back out transmission and fix/replace the failed oil line. I was told the original install of the IMS retrofit ran the oil line too close to engine manifold. Thankfully a major issue was resolved before serious damage. Oil line was too close to hot manifold. Repair summary.

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As I recall, the oil fed line can come in contact with the tie rod, if not properly adjusted with the car on the ground, otherwise the line will rub on the tie rod. When I installed the solution, I had to adjust the position of the oil line. I don�t think the oil line is near the exhaust manifold.

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First of all, the IMS bearing is your car not the LN IMS Retrofit because that product does NOT use an oil fed supply. The LN Engineering IMS Solution does; however, the oil feed line is short and doesn't come anywhere close to the exhaust system. (see picture) Maybe your IMS product was the TUNERS DOF? The direct oil feed line on the TunerRS IMS is very long because it's pulling oil from the heads.

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Huh? A tie rod is a part of the wheel's steering assembly. Maybe you mean the sway bar?

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lol, sorry I meant sway bar.

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You do not have an IMS Retrofit (does not have an oil feed) or IMS Solution. The oil line for the IMS Solution does not go anywhere near the exhaust or any other heat source. As another poster mentioned, if running an aftermarket sway bar we have seen issues that could cause the oil line to rub on the sway bar; we do have a bulletin on this on the website and it is included with the instructions for installation of the IMS Solution. We also changed the hose to incorporate a chafe guard as an extra precaution early on. What is critical is that the line does not rub when the car is on the ground and the wheels/suspension are carrying the full weight of the car. The interference issue does not show itself when the car is in the air and suspension is unloaded.

hey there I just bought a '99 C4 and I put the last 6 digits of my VIN on the LN Engineering website and it came up Production DateJun 2016 Car Year1999 Full Vehicle Identification Number624582 Installation DateAugust 27, 2016 Installed at mileage:86740 Installer / ShopEuropean Motorsport is this your car???? funny mine is also dark blue but the receipts I got does not make sense with the LN info above help!

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Also with the L&N IMS Solution we wouldn't need to remove the transmission to replace the line, from the tech report, good thing you did and all the bolts were properly torqued.

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It is common for the last six digits of the vin to be duplicated, even within a specific model year. It likely is not your vehicle if the information does not match. If there is ever any question, you can always submit a support ticket and we can often provide additional information as long as the person who registered the install supplied all the required information to us.

I had my 996 refurbished in 2017 and I cant remember if the IMS bearing was replaced. I have an invoice from SST Performance in PA that has since closed so I cant call them to ask. The invoice shows 3 bearings were replaced when I had the transmission rebuilt but shows no part numbers. Based on the other things changed and their prices, would it be correct in assuming that one of these bearings is the IMS?

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My assumption would be no. That looks like a very transmission-specific set of parts. Not even a clutch or pressure plate listed.

This is some seriously good information from one of our forum experts, thus it belongs in our 996 forum "official" IMSB thread. And I really wish forum members would quit posting in that other thread. It is old news and the OP should have posted in here. The claims made by some about load ratings for their roller bearings are disingenuous. Regardless of brand, a particular size or type of ball or roller bearing will have a set rating for that bearing and can be verified by looking at any given manufacturer's catalog. Claims of 5, 10, or 12 times the strength is simply just not true. The factory single row 6204 bearing a dynamic load capacity of 2900# with thrust max load rating of 1450#. The dual row 4204/5204 has a dynamic load capacity of 4000# w/ thrust of 2000#. The later non-serviceable 6305 bearing has a dynamic load capacity of 4,600# w/ thrust of 2300#. The NJ or NU204 cylindrical bearing used in most roller bearing kits has a dynamic load capacity of 3750# with thrust max load rating of 375#. It is worth noting that although the cylindrical bearing has 29% higher load capacity, in thrust it has only 26% of the capacity of the deep groove single row 6204 bearing. __________________ Charles Navarro President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service http://www.LNengineering.com Home of Nickies Cylinders, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution

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Knowingly or not, this is missleading and non-sens information. I'm an engineer and worked at at one of the worlds largest bearing mfg. I've reversed engineered the IMSB loads and ALL BEARINGS USED are overkill for the application in regard to load - life.....not surprisingly. 6204 or roller or dual row, all of them have load bearing which is MUCH higher than needed. These bearings fail for other reasons.

...like the intermediate shaft runout. /X3

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Knowingly or not, this is misleading and nonsense information.

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Well, I guess you'r an engineering then and have more than words/opinion to back that up? I'm all ears.

How do you know who the engineer in the room is? They tell you. They're the vegans of the technical world 😬

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Actually, I find this information very interesting. The point being made here is that clearly all the load cases for the IMS bearings were not understood in the original design of the motor. Hence the early failures. Some have said the use of a permanently lubricated sealed bearing was a poor choice in the original design. What I took away from Nick's post is that a debate over rating numbers for bearings may be obscuring the load case that causes the failures, or the design feature apart from the rating which may be leading to the failures. Personally, I would like to see a debate on what could in fact be the condition, or the design feature that leads to so many failures.

Not so true. The original dual row IMSB had a very low failure rate ( <1%), but they can fail. Probably more due to the original Porsche recommendation of 15,000 mile oil changes. 20 some years later, and with mounds of data/experience, now we know that that was a very bad idea. 3-5K mile oil changes makes failure of a dual row IMSB almost non-existent. It was Porsche's changeover to the weaker (and cheaper) single row IMSB (6204) that led to the class action lawsuit for engine failures and replacement engines. The newer and larger 6305 (corrected - Thanks Charles!) IMSB is very robust and does not fail with proper maintenance (oil changes).

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So as a single row 966.2 driver, I had the IMS replaced back in January with the LN "replacement" I think it's called. The IMS that came out with 43,xxx miles on it looked fine sitting on the bench but did not turn freely. So I don't quite understand how the condition of the lubricating oil in the engine could affect the bearing internals unless the permanent seal failed and allowed infiltration into the race. It was my understanding, and maybe this is incorrect, that the bearing was sealed.

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Slight correction. The later non-serviceable bearing is the 6305; the most failure prone IMS bearing used by Porsche was the 6204.

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Although I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere in this thread (which I don't blame you for not reading through the thousands of posts). what happens is the grease seal is only rated for 250F intermittently and it gets hard. The inner lip fails, allowing the engine oil to wash out the grease. What's left of the seal then impedes the free exchange of fresh oil in and out of the IMS bearing. What ends up happening is when the engine is turned off, the oil from the sump ends up filling up the IMS bearing tube. It's that oil that feeds the bearing mostly during operation. So keeping your oil clean and using a quality oil makes a difference, especially using an oil with a higher HTHS vis and something with plenty of ZDDP and moly FMs to reduce wear.

Couldn't agree more Charles. And oil technology has changed in the last 20 some years, and why Porsche recommended oils has changed with time as well. Long live the IMSB! Hoorah...

Two things stood out clearly when I reverse engineered this: The bearing is over kill in it size and the lubrication plays a minor roll in it's life span(grease or engine oil doesn't matter much). The failures that we know and fear happens in less than 10% of the bearings design life, this is crucial information. Such early failures points to just one thing: Damage to the bearing races. This can happen either at the bearing factory (bad quality control), thru false brinelling (stationary bearing subjected to vibration) or ingestion of debris during operation(causing dents). Some high milage oils contain seal swellers, that could affect the seals and thus letting debris inside.

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Best post I've read on here in a while. Bravo.

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Are you familiar with the term ***** envy? You might want to study it, with all it's ramifications

Hi guys, quick question - is there a way to visually inspect if the IMS retrofit has been carried out on a tiptronic car? Not looking forward to removing both the engine and the gearbox, ordering the kit just to find it was carried out fairly recently. I guess if the oil feed was added, that is fairly obvious, but other than that are there any tell-tale signs? I am asking because I acquired a salvage car and am yet to see it in person. Thanks!

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This is a long shot but LN usually ask that a removed IMS bearing be sent to them and the new one registered on their web page. I did this with my upgrade in January. I believe the search key is the VIN number. https://lnengineering.com/ims-lookup.html

Thanks, that was a really good idea! No records found based on VIN number though.

So I have a 2001 Carrera 4, build date of December 2000. I just purchased the car a month ago with 69k. Put a 1000 miles on it, then got the IMS done. Few things: It cost me $3600 including the AOS and a flex disk. The car had the clutch done at 57k, and the IMS flange changed, but I�m not 100% sure on the bearing itself, however this was 12 years ago. The bearing that came out had zero play, however, a tiny bit of oil was starting to seep past the seal, so I think that�s what people refer to as stage 1 failure? In summary, I�m glad it�s done for peace of mind, but I think I would have been ok for quite a bit longer. Also, getting it done isn�t bad, and for those looking to buy, I wouldn�t automatically rule out cars just because the bearing is original

I dropped off the car today at Black Forest, a well known Porsche Indy for decades here in San Diego. There were maybe 35 Porsches in the corral, the majority 911s, and no other brands at all. Asked them what they are seeing in IMSB failures these days. They said they regularly replace them, because by now everyone knows it is standard maintenance. But they saw maybe only 2 this past year, where the bearing was ready to let go when they pulled the old one out. They also said that often they are seeing an oil leak as a warning sign that it might be getting weak. If anyone else has updates, we're interested to hear the state of this problem out there.

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Great shop and also great observation on their part about there being a much better knowledge surrounding this issue. The biggest issue we see are cars that are years past recommended service intervals for the replacement bearing in their engine and the fact that many shops did not clearly communicate that the IMS bearing is a maintenance item (with exception of the IMS Solution). The other issue we see on our end is that there are now shops changing IMS bearings that are not Porsche experts or that even have general knowledge about Porsche engines, say something along the lines of a Midas (I kid you not on this). Also there are many shops putting bearings in where the original bearing has already failed because the customer can't afford to fix it right. These cars end up making their way to auction. We've also found cars that have had fraudulent IMS Retrofit serial numbers on them or owners that think the IMS has been replaced, but the IMS flange was actually resealed. One last segment are shops that believe the IMS is a made up issue and do a clutch and just ignore the IMS bearing completely and have the bearing fail shortly after a clutch change. It's important to take your car to someone that is knowledgeable and reputable.

I’ve had discussions with my local Porsche Shop concerning my IMS Bearing. As you know in 1999’s it is a two part bearing and it has not been a problem, like the IMS single bearing in the 2000-2005 911’s. I would like to hear from those with 1999 911’s and any experience with bearing failure. I have my transmission out and need to replace the pinion bearing. I have a leaking RMS and will replace that and the 3 half casing bolts. 911’s have steel cylinder sleeves and chance of bore scoring is very unlikely. Next week I will pull out the spark plugs and check each cylinder. Fingers crossed.

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Wow - just wow.

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If your local Porsche shop told you your 996 has steel sleeves from the factory, they are dead wrong. If the shop also didn't recommend changing the IMS bearing while the transmission was out, they are doing you a disservice. I'd recommend starting at the beginning of this thread and go from there. Everything you need to know is detailed in this IMS discussion thread.

Thanks

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Spot on as usual Charles - there's been a huge uptick in the number of 996's marketed on auction sites and classifieds with recent IMSB service I always wondered if they prequalified to any degree the condition of the engine I suppose we may start seeing the results in the next few years

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That would be a big fat no. There is at least one shop I know of in Chicago (and many more in most metro areas) that doesn't even change the oil or RMS. They do the job for well under $2k and go in with blinders on. There are many more shops like this, but at the end of the day, if the customer is shopping by price alone and not seeing value in doing the job right, results may and will often vary.

Local shop did not say 996 had steel sleeves. One of the many you tube experts. I will be looking at them. Is it true that only1% of the double IMs bearings have failed? You sell IMS replacements, does that influence your opinion?. I know the single IMS bearings fail. Can oil analyses help determine if double IMS is starting to fail? Is oil leak from IMS beginning of its failure?I’m a retired Civil Engineer who bought this 1999 911 from Copart that was good outside with mechanical problems. I have a lift and have taken transmission out. I’m replacing RMS, Clutch, etc. I haven’t made decision on replacing IMS. Just trying to get more information. Thanks in advance.

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I have a '99. I'm *not* an expert by any means, but happy to share my (limited) knowledge and experience: Is it true that only1% of the double IMs bearings have failed? - Yes from everything I've read about it, that is the *historical* rate. But the rate is changing as the bearings start to age out. You sell IMS replacements, does that influence your opinion?. - I have a Solution and went into buying my '99 with that already budgeted in as I didn't want to have that part be a wear (time/use replacement) item I know the single IMS bearings fail. Can oil analyses help determine if double IMS is starting to fail? - Absolutely. I would recommend replacement as soon as practicable as they are *all* starting to age out. Is oil leak from IMS beginning of its failure? - Not an expert on this, but could be correlated. I�m replacing RMS, Clutch, etc. I haven�t made decision on replacing IMS. Just trying to get more information. - If you have the transmission out, replace the bearing. Even a new OEM will be better than nothing. As stated above, even the dual row bearings are starting to fail at a higher rate. When I had my engine rebuilt (elective, not due to any failure) they noted that my dual row bearing was in the earliest stages of failure. It's a 20 year old sealed bearing that has been exposed to years of heat cycles and oil contamination of the original grease. Best route - replace with IMS Solution and forget about it. Cheapest route - replace with new OEM. Worst route - do nothing and have an expensive surprise. Hope this helps you.

One thing that seems like a good idea. If you have a Tritronic like me, apparently the failure rate is lower with the Tiptronic -- admit this is hearsay since I don't have any data on that, but I've heard this more than once. But the time will come when it needs to be replaced. The obvious choice is to install the IMS Solution. With a manual the car will probably need a new clutch every 50-75K miles, and that's the time to replace the bearing. The Tiptronic doesn't have this kind of requirement to remove the trans periodically, so the IMS Solution is probably more cost effective for the lifetime of the car.

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This is false. There are less observed failures of IMS bearings in Tiptronic models simply because there were less of them made. We hear this all the time.

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Thank you, sorry, I'll be more careful before spreading bad info.

I dropped my engine to do some maintenance and timing chain pads. I pulled my flywheel and see the LN IMS flange. It looks like it needs to be resealed but RMS looks dry as a bone with no leaks. I have no LN serial number sticker anywhere. My car has 85k and is an early 1/98. Should I just reseal flange or put in another new LN IMS? I also typed in my last 6 of ViN and nothing came up. ??

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Once you clean off the flange, you should find a date code. If there is no date code, then it's past its service interval. Likewise if you have the serial number, you can cross reference that here even if it wasn't registered: http://imsretrofit.com/ims-check/

I have a 1999 911 with 84,000 I bought at auction. I purposely got a car with no outside damage. Mechanical problems I wanted to address my self. I’m retired, put lift in garage got all the tools, etc. Large casing on transmission cracked and I replaced. When I took out the gears I found the pinion bushing was bad. I knew I couldn’t tackle that work and brought transmission to a Porsche shop. This shop comes with excellent reputation. The rear main seal needs to be replaced and I will do it myself. I told him I probably would replace the IMS Bearing since transmission removed. He said why and said 1999 has two part bearing which I knew, and that the chances of it being bad are remote. I won’t be back in NY for a few months so I have time to think about. Any opinions on not replacing IMS bearing?

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okay. she is old. no serial stamped on flange. sending order.

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I cleaned it off and is stamped H4 how old is it? Would it be best to call?

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That date code would be a manufacture date of Aug 2014. Based off of past history, usually most kits are installed within 3-6 months of manufacture.

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Having dismantled so far. I would insist on using this opportunity to replace the IMS bearing. The IMS bearing is 24 years old, regardless of being a dual row.

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quick question. I pulled the engine to do Variocam pads, check IMS, AOS etc. I had some deviation and a code for �P1524 camshaft Adjustment Bank 2� figured it would be worn pads. I pulled bank 2 cover and the variopads are absolutely like new condition, not a mark! I did check for operation with Durametric before dropping motor and they both worked. Bad/failing actuator? any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if I posted on this thread if not really IMS related.

Anyone know what "K" stamp on an upgraded IMS bearing might mean? My mechanic found that my new to me 996 had already had the IMS done (badly, it's being redone) but didn't recognize the part. Just wondering if anyone was familiar with it.

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@Charles Navarro Assuming he can answer this.

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Need a photo. Our date codes are two digit, letter and number.

Hi everyone. I have a 1999 C2; Build date of 1/99. My engine serial number etching says exactly this: �M96/01 66X17069� (you can barely make it out but I zoomed in on a photo I took of it). I should have a dual row bearing; and just about every resource I read/spoke to told me the same. Pics attached of what I pulled using the LN Pro tool kit. I�ve never done any of this stuff before, never seen a bearing in real life and this is my first significant DIY project. This looks like a single row, but I�d like someone to confirm. And, if it is a single row, how?? I thought I was supposed to have a dual row.

Congrats on getting the bearing out. Yes, it looks like a single row. Why I cannot answer other that to note that _many_ engines were replaced under warranty with “newer” engines and that might have happened here.

Getting the bearing out was easy actually (LN tool kit). What comes next seems harder. I bought a dual row, completely convinced that�s what it had based on the engine serial - 66X is supposed to mean it was built in 99, and there�s usually a remanufactured designation on it, which mine does not have.

Calling @Charles Navarro can you shed any light here?

That is definitely a single row...but... Did it have any spacers or a spiral-lock ? ...Pelican sells a single row replacement for the dual row that uses some spacers and a spiral-lock.. If it had a regular snap ring right against the bearing then someone has disassembled the engine and installed a 2001-2004 single row shaft/bearing in it..

It had a snap ring right against the bearing. However, the shaft does not look like it is deep enough for a dual row. It all looks very much like it was meant for a single row bearing.

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Engine serial number has an X in it. The engine must have been replaced after Porsche switched to the single row IMS bearing. The replacement engine would have had whatever intermediate shaft bearing was used during the model year the engine was built, so that's why it had a single row and not a dual row bearing. What IMS Bearing Does My Porsche Engine Have?

I�ve seen a lot of conflicting information - https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ecode-sat.html I thought it was supposed to be that �AT� signified an exchange engine?

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If the engine serial number has an AT, X, or Y, it's a replacement engine.

I am going to replace the IMS, in my 2002 996.2 TIP, and I have two questions; 1. What is the best brand or model to replace with? 2. What else should be done while in there, water pump, RMS? Thank you for the advice

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Since it's going to be an engine and transmission out job (being it's a Tip), I'd recommend doing the water pump (along with a low temp thermostat) and AOS (and vent lines). It goes without saying that the RMS needs to be done and if the dual mass flywheel is out of spec. Before doing all this work, I'd highly recommend scoping the cylinders for bore scoring (which is part of our pre-qualification procedure), as you don't want to spend all this money if the cylinders are worn: https://lnengineering.com/products/w...e-scoring.html If the cylinders check out, here are additional steps to take to help reduce the likelihood of having an issue: https://lnengineering.com/products/w...e-scoring.html As far as what IMS to run, you have lots of choices - ball, roller, or plain bearing. The IMS Solution is the only truly permanent solution to IMS bearing failures, so if your budget allows, that is the best option. Of course, your plan for the vehicle and the car's overall condition both come in to play when making a decision on which bearing technology to use: https://imssolution.com/

I know of three makers of IMS bearing options, four if you count Porsche OEM. LN Engineering (LNEngineering.com), Direct oil feed (Directoilfeed.com) and European Parts Solution (EPSauto.com). Within this, LN Engineering offers two options, one of which, the IMS Solution, eliminates ball bearings and therefore the risk of catastrophic failure ever happening from the ***** or race breaking. I'm not qualified to tell anyone which is best. I can only tell you about my choice, which was the LN Engineering Retrofit. It is a dual row ceramic ball bearing without seals so that the oil in the sump lubricates the bearings and the oil isn't trapped in the IMS. At the time, 2021, I did not know about the Direct oil feed option, which makes sense to me, and I didn't find much online about the EPS option). I would have gone with the Solution product, but I had a lot of repair and restoration work on my car, and I couldn't part with an incremental $1K. It was also a tough choice to spend more $ because, I was having the work done prophylactically. There was no evidence of any problem, and I could tell from the CarFax that it had been replaced earlier. When I got it back from the shop and before I sent it to LN Engineering (part of the warranty requirement) I could see that it was pristine. From my own research, it seems that the problem is not necessarily the stock ball bearing per se, but the seal on the bearing and its reliance on grease inside the seals. I say this because all three replacement options use a bearing without a seal, that is lubricated with oil from the sump. In some cases, the oil is fed directly (direct oil feed or IMS Solution) and don't rely on the bearing being lubricated by the sump alone. None of the options use grease. This is great that there is a whole industry to help. The downside is that since all the options use unsealed bearings, you have to be sure there is no crap floating around in your oil that could get into the bearings. That means that before your tech does anything, you need to at least pull the oil pan and make sure there aren't any chips or bits floating around. If there is, you should try and track it down and get it clean before taking the next step on the IMS bearing journey. Please let us know how the progress on your journey.

Following up, I went all in on LN, my 996 TIP is getting the IMS solution, AOS, RMS, Water pump, oil filter expander. Gotta say I feel good knowing everything will be safe now, only negative was the water pump box was quite damaged when I got it...but hopefully the part is just fine. Looking forward to the next 100,000 miles

Hello all, I purchased an '01 996 earlier this year and am getting around to baselining the car, particularly because there is no history of IMS replacement. I've attached some images showing the clutch and what's visible of the IMS cover: Based on what I see, I believe both the clutch and IMS has been replaced before, but I wanted to know if anyone could identify which IMS is currently in the car based on what you can see of the cover. I figure I might as well replace it again since it's already all apart and don't know which one to get. Thanks for any help!

If there is no marking on the outside of the IMSB cover, you will have to pull the bearing and take a look. A couple things. LN Engineering will loan you the tools to make the switch to their product. If you go that route, be sure to save the old bearing to send back to them as it is part of the warranty and registration process. If you pull the bearing out, post a picture of it with the markings visible and I'm sure someone on this thread will be able to tell you where it came from. I'm sure you will get recommendations about IMS bearings. I had the LN Engineering Retrofit Single Row Pro installed and would have gone with their Solution product, but my car needed so much work, I had to prioritize the expenses. While you are "in there" why don't you replace the AOS and the oil cooler? Yeah, the list can get pretty long.

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That's an IMS Retrofit. I see a 6 which means it was made in 2016, so it's due for replacement. You can try looking up the VIN on the IMS Retrofit website, but if there is no serial number sticker on the car, I doubt it was registered. https://www.IMSretrofit.com .

Thanks Charles, I checked the registry and no dice. But as you can see, I pulled off the flywheel, and there's the logo. And no worries, I've already ordered the kit with tools (thanks for the heads up on that @996-CAB ).

Charles, (or anyone else really). Why do the bearings LN Engineering sell 'age out'. I.e. They must be replaced after so many miles or years. Why not just mileage?. Is there a material inside the bearing that degrades with time? I'm just curious. (applogies if this has already been answered in prior 46 pages)

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To be perfectly honest, I'd rather someone drive their car more than less - to me the time factor is more important than mileage as the bearing is in service 24/7 and has a load on it from the chain tensioner. Moisture in the crankcase leads to corrosive wear in the bearing and it is well known that even a small amount of moisture shortens the life span of ball and roller bearings. That's why it is so important to avoid short drives and get the engine to full operating temperature every time you drive it. Using a better oil like Driven DT40 and changing it more often is equally as important. Ball and roller bearings both benefit from increased anti-wear and friction modifier additives. Another consideration for bearing life is that these bearings benefit from higher surface speeds. Low engine speed increases the load on the bearing and reduces the service life. These are just a few of the considerations for our service intervals which are on the conservative side since we can't plan for every situation. Remember, failures are more common in cars that are low mileage or not driven hard as Porsche intended.

Hello all, I just bought a 2003 C4S and it has the old LN "Classic Single Row IMS Retrofit 106-08.2 (10.0124.200)". This was done in 2012 at 16k miles, and the car has 123k miles on it now! I understand the service interval on these are 4 years/50k miles, but given that it's now on 11 years/107k miles, would it be terrible to wait until the next clutch replacement to get this done? (probably in a year or so). It seems to have held up well after all. Thanks!

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That's great the car has been used and driven as Porsche intended! That said, the bearing has for sure done its job far exceeding our recommended service life. I would recommend replacing it as soon as possible. I'm sure the clutch is already due for replacement.

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Yeah you're right, I'll just go get it done as soon as I can. Thanks!

Guyz, haven't been on in a while, so sorry for this question if it has been answered or somewhere else really easy to find. In San Diego County, what shops does anyone recommend for AOS, IMS, RMS replacements? Thanks so much in advance! marcus [email removed]

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So my dual row IMS was replaced by the previous owner in 2018, which was about 6k miles ago. It has since developed an oil leak any my Indy speculated it was the IMS or RMS and recommended I get it fixed asap. I threw caution to the wind and kept driving it for about another 10 months thinking that it HAS to be the RMS as there are only 6k miles on the existing dual row�. Welp it�s the bearing that is leaking� I dodged that bullet. Getting the solution this week.

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Be sure they check your cam timing deviation. If it's over 4 degrees (which I would expect it to be), the variocam wear pads need to be changed. I'd also do the 4th and 5th chains while you are in there. Typically a leaky flange is caused by the IMS not being perfectly centered in the housing bore, causing the case to cut the triple lip seal on the flange as it's being installed.

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luckily they checked it prior and said it was within spec.

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Which version of the bearing did you get? Can�t tell from the photo but that doesn�t look like the LN retrofit.

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it�s a dual row, installed in 2018

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Is this what you mean by being not perfectly centered,? or is this a worn out bearing with lots of side play in it...? This is the above pic of bearing in question...

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No. What I referred to is the ims shaft itself. It's it's not centered in the housing bore, shops will just use a bigger hammer and force the flange on. The case ends up cutting the triple lip seal. That's why you have to check the cam timing before doing an IMS job (as part of the pre-qual procedure) and correct any timing issues, including the variocam pads. If you have excess cam timing deviation, that will cause the shaft to be off center. Secondly, if the third chain tension isn't removed, that too can cause the shaft to get pulled to one side with the same result.

Quotes source post: 19100334

What you're referring to as a gap in this image is actually the nut's flange which appears dark from the camera lighting. Plus it's shot at an angle which gives it an illusion of being off centered.

Just bought a 2000 Boxster with 95.000 miles thru Copart auction (bad experience - detail at bottom of message) and immediately pulled the transmission. locked the cams and pulled the tensioners. Removed the IMS flange and the bearing looked ok till I pulled the rear bearing seal. The bearing was very loose but the cage was intact. A couple of bits of metal around the bearing but the sump was relatively clean. Talked to PO from papers left in car and found the vehicle had been in storage for 10 years since he lost all his keys!. I am making the tools to remove the bearing and see what is inside the IMS tube as this is a "keep the price down" project. I have researched the IMS bearing options. Think replacing the bearing with a quality 5204 bearing with a steel cage and removing the rear seal or getting the BD20-17-A-DDUA17NX01-NSK from 123bearing.com may be the best solution for this project as a rebuild is not in the budget so keep fingers crossed. Another possible solution is converting to an Audi 1.8t engine that even if fully rebuilt would be 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of a m96 rebuild. This conversion puts a very reliable engine in the car that can easily be built to 250 hp reliably and cheap maintenance. The 5 speed is derived from the VW/Audi line. Bottom line is a dual IMS bearing failure at 95,000 and approx. 13 years. Bought the car from posted pictures and buy it now auction. The car had to be shipped from Calif to Wa and as an individual, I had to use a broker. Car arrived on a Sunday with the rear bumper cover torn off and drivers door dented/scrapped. Damage not in pictures. I signed in protest but neither Copay or A Better Bid would help me out. Not devastating but "buyer beware" with auctions!

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I'd vote for the 5204 replacement. I've done it in a Boxster and Carrera. I left the seal on in both cases. You'll find loads of opinions and there will only be some amount of facts in each opinion. Given your not looking to spend big money I think that is a simple and relatively reliable solution. Spending the big money is not a 100% guarantee and chances are that something else will go wrong anyways.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Hello, I have a 2005 997 Carrera base model. I checked the engine number and it reads M96/0569509632. Does this mean that the IMS in my car cannot be replaced without opening the engine? The info for 2005 997 cars seems conflicting depending on where you read.

I hope this helps. You are correct that the IMS bearing cannot be replaced from the outside like the 996, but you may have the seal removed from one side so that the bearing is exposed to oil in the sump or from a direct feed added after the fact. Source: The Definitive Guide and FAQ for Porsche IMS Bearings (lnengineering.com) DO PORSCHE 911 997 MODELS HAVE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEARING PROBLEMS? Although the forums might tell you that 987 and 997 models do not have IMS bearing problems, some 2005 model year vehicles were fitted with the problematic single row bearing. The larger, non-serviceable bearing used in the 2006 through 2008 model year Porsche Boxster, Cayman, and 911 models is the strongest of the factory Porsche intermediate shaft bearings, but they still can fail. As the bearing cannot be changed without complete engine disassembly, many experts agree that removing the grease seal off the IMS bearing will extend the service life of original bearing and is a must anytime you have the gearbox out to do a clutch job or replace the rear main seal. WHAT DO I DO IF I HAVE AN ENGINE WITH THE LARGER, NON-SERVICEABLE PORSCHE IMS BEARING? Although most 2005 model year Boxster and 911 vehicles will have engines originally fitted with the problematic but serviceable 6204 single row ball bearing, some late 2005 builds will have received the larger, non-serviceable 6305 series ball bearing. Any factory replacement engines built in or after the 2006 model year will also have the larger, non-serviceable bearing. Even though the larger 06-08 intermediate shaft bearing is the most robust bearing Porsche used from the factory, we recommend that you still plan on having the grease seal removed off the IMS bearing to extend the life of the original bearing as soon as possible. This allows the bearing to be lubricated by the oil in the sump. Remember, the M96 engine is wet sump meaning the IMS bearing is partially submerged in oil - adding a pressure fed oil feed to the IMS bearing is not necessary. This bit of preventative maintenance is important since the engine must be completely disassembled to replace the bearing.

Got it, thanks. Just wanted to confirm that that engine number meant 2 row bearing. I'll look into removing the cover the next time I do the clutch. Thanks.

I don't think I have answered if it is a two row or one row, but from what the LN folks say above, it looks like the '05 got the single. In any case, you aren't going to replace it, so it doesn't matter.

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Apparently '05 is a bit special because depending on the time of fabrication, they can have the single or dual row:

OK, well you are in luck. Send pictures.

No, ‘05’s never had dual row IMS Bearings. Early in ‘05 Porschewas still using the smaller (serviceable) single row bearing. At some point in ‘05 they switched to the larger non-serviceable bearing. Nobody seems to know “exactly” when the changeover was made, so the only way to tell what you’ve got is to separate the engine and transaxle and look at the nut on the IMS FLANGE/Seal…

Hoping for some help here I have a 2004 996 Carrera, and brought it to a Porsche Specialist mechanic to have the IMS bearing fixed. When he went to do the work, he said that I was in luck, and that there was already a "newer 3rd generation Porsche bearing and updated rear main seal." I could not find any Carfax or other records of the bearing being replaced. Curious how this could be? Did I just get lucky and a prior owner already did the repair? Can aftermarket repairs be done with Porsche Bearings as opposed to the LM replacement bearing that I keep reading about? Should I get a second opinion, or does this sound legit, and I should just count myself lucky? Thanks in advance for your advice!

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Quotes source post: 19397896

It would appear that the engine was replaced. If the serial number has a letter in it, AT, X, or Y, it's likely been replaced. If the engine was built during or after the 2006 model year, it would have the larger, non-serviceable IMS bearing. To extend the life of the original IMS bearing, it's recommended that the grease seal be removed off the IMS bearing so as to allow the engine oil to properly lubricate it: https://lnengineering.com/products/t...s-bearing.html At this time Porsche does not offer any IMS bearing replacement other than a complete new intermediate shaft.

As a new 996.2 owner (2004 C4S) with 64K on the clock (and lots of POs), I have spent a few hours of my life reading this thread from start to finish. I'm grateful to all of those who took the time to provide constructive posts on this topic. My situation is one that I didn't see mentioned in any of the 48 pages until the last few posts. Going through the few records that came with my car, I came across an Invoice from July 2020 where a PO took the car in for a new clutch (strangely, doesn't appear that the flywheel was changed as part of that job) and paid $880 in labor to "Check IMS Bearing." The shop noted that "upon inspection found that the IMS bearing seems to have been replaced with a genuine Porsche replacement, no further action required at this time." Noted that RMS and clutch kit were done along with oil/filter changes. Not really a question here, just logging as a data point. Interesting that in over a decade of this thread's existence we suddenly see a couple of shop claims that an OEM bearing was installed as a replacement at some point. Obviously, no way of knowing what the replacement bearing is without pulling. @Charles Navarro I checked my engine serial # and there's not an X, Y, or AT to be found so have to assume it's original. Had the cylinders borescoped before I bought it and all looked good, and negligible metal in oil filter/on magnetic plug when baselining the oil. With a recent clutch job at 55K, kind of throws off the efficiencies of getting an IMS Solution done along with other PM needs at the same time. It's 1/2 of a DD along with an old FJ62, so it'll take a couple years to get to 75K, much less 90K. Curious on the group's thoughts about going ahead with the Solution sooner than later, and what I might do (AOS?) to create some efficiency given the clutch is relatively new and buttery smooth. Thanks!

Quotes source post: 19420203

To me this looks like they charged $800 for doing nothing. Ockham�s razor.

Finished the IMS Solution install on my 03 4S (45k Miles)...PO had stated the IMS Was upgraded, but didnt have the paperwork...so I proceeded as if it was stock, much to my surprise an LN IMSR was installed...none the less proceeded with the solution. The LN Team's instructions and tools made a daunting task methodical and manageable big shout to them (The lift time at my fathers shop, and his decades of aircooled experience didnt hurt either LOL) - My "While its out" list included: IMS Solution, New RMS, AOS, Power Steering Seals, Cam Sensors, Oil Sender, Oil Cooler Seals, Plugs, Coils, Coolant Resevoir and Cap, Water Pump, LN Thermostat, Engine Mounts, Rennline HD Transmission Mount, New Clutch and a new DMF. I also pulled the Front and Rear Axles to clean, grease and re-boot the CV's...Stoked to be back on the road!

Can anyone tell me if it�s expected that an LN IMS solution will wear any metal particles in the first oil change interval? I did my oil analysis after 2k miles of DT40 immediately after installing the solution, as well as changing cam chains, pads, RMS, maybe a few other items. Heads only - not a full rebuild. The Blackstone labs analysis came back with copper at 14, aluminum at 8. It could be rod bearings, but my last analysis before the work showed those levels very low so I�d believe they were healthy. Everything else was within universal averages. Blackstone also commented that this was normal after a partial rebuild.

Quotes source post: 19684496

A solution should not generate any debris as long as it is properly installed, and for sure, it would not generate any copper since no single component in the solution has copper. The only place copper can come from is the main or rod bearings and only with extensive wear. Has the car been tracked? If you have dropped the sump anytime recently?

Quotes source post: 19685316

Car has not been tracked, I have not dropped the sump. I can do that with the next oil change I suppose. Car seems to run just fine. No noises, no smoking, no oil consumption over 2k miles, no symptoms of anything right now.

Quotes source post: 19684496

Changed oil just before IMS Solution, tested oil.Then fresh oil of course with IMS Solution installed. Ran engine 500 miles changed oil, tested. Cut open filter. Beautiful thing not ever thinking about IMSB again. Clean test results clean filter. Brilliant design thank you.

Quotes source post: 19686102

I'd recommend doing a shorter drain interval and retest and also pull the sump at the same time.

@Charles Navarro Can I ask - Running the IMS solution that bleeds off oil to the LN IMS bearing. What sort of effect does that have on reducing overall engine oil pressure ? Is there a pressure drop at all?

Quotes source post: 19754688

There is no measurable pressure loss as the oil is being forced through a plain bearing with clearances similar to a rod or main bearing. When we did our testing, we even ran a 0w20 and purposefully ran the engine hot to make sure it would operate properly in even the harshest conditions.

Hey all, 996 C4 Cabriolet. Had the car for 6 months and it�s a blast. Curious about this though. IMS bearing was replaced according to carfax, contacted the shop (Euro AH Spokane WA) and they confirmed they replaced IMS with a brand called �Precision Auto Electric� can�t find any info on this brand or bearing�.any of you guys have any info on this? thx!

Quotes source post: 19925509

As far as I can see, their website went dark in 2023. Here it is on the internet wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20230323...w.por-ims.com/

Wow, Thanks so much for that! Talked to the owner on the phone today. Really appreciate you finding that! -Rob

Quotes source post: 19925509

Thanks for starting the question because we all learned something. But I want to know about your IMS Bearing info from CarFax. CarFax takes data in coded bits that match the work done. I don't think there is a code for the replacement of the IMS bearing, so I am curious what you see on the CarFax report that tells you the bearing was replaced? Obviously, it was because you got that directly form the shop that did it. Thanks.

This is from the carfax I received with the car under the detailed history section

I have a 3/98 production car and it's been verified as a dual-row IMS car. Similarly, when I type the VIN into LN's website, it comes up that it's dual row, but was replaced with an LN replacement in 2013 at 77,000 miles. I'm now at 130k miles and it's obviously 2025. Should I look into getting another LN bearing replacement?

Quotes source post: 19927522

If you do replace it with another retrofit or even the IMS Solution, there are discounts available, even if coming from a competitor ims bearing replacement. https://imsrebates.com/

Quotes source post: 19926231

Wow, that is so interesting. Never seen an IMS bearing replacement in a CarFax and I've looked at hundreds of these cars! Thanks for sharing.

We were contacted by a writer for The Drive who wanted to do a comprehensive article on IMS bearings. It's been a long time in the works, but it just went live today. https://www.thedrive.com/sponsored/t...mplete-history Hope you guys find it interesting.

Quotes source post: 19936643

I did find it interesting! Thanks for sharing Charles.

Quotes source post: 19936643

Nice! And timely, just had mine replaced last week, as a precaution, with the retrofit. I have a 99 with dual row, but seems like an obvious while you're in there thing to do. Got a new clutch, cleanedup flywheel, new RMS seal, and a new bearing! My dual row looks from the outside in perfect health. I need to fill out the warranty card info, and learned I have to send it back. I thought I was going to keep it as a memento... Can I take the seals off before sending it back to inspect the bearings (it was referenced in another post I could, but want to make sure before doing so).

Quotes source post: 19943774

You are welcome to take the seal off to look at the bearing if you want. I would just ask that you just put the seal back on when done.

Quotes source post: 19943774

I am a new 2001 Carrera 996 owner. The car has only 38,000 miles, but being 24 years old I also had the IMS Retrofit installed this week. Since the clutch was already off for the bearing, I had a new OEM Clutch Kit installed. They also replaced the crankshaft seal, and four cylinder head plugs. I took it out for a test drive on the highway. Nice clean shifting, no issues, and the car was very ready for speeds above 110, but I wasn't. Now I can drive it anywhere, without holding my breath the whole way!

Hey everyone! I'm in the middle of doing an IMS Retrofit using LN's retrofit bearing and a set of tools rented from them. I'm at the step where I can actually remove the IMS bearing (Step 23 in these instructions , though I'm just doing a Retrofit, not a Solution). My problem is: when I go to thread the puller onto the center stud of the IMS bearing, the center stud just turns with it. I can't get a good grip on the stud, and I think the puller or the stud may be cross-threading, because the puller won't go more than 2-3 threads onto the stud. Any suggestions on how to get that to thread on properly?

Sounds like the IMS your removing is a L&N bearing, the old kit did not have the adapter to remove those only the OEM bearing, and the new install kits did, the thread pitch may not match what the install kit set has, you will need the correct thread pitch adapter to remove the old IMS bearing.. IMS Pro Tool Kit Hex Adapter for LN Bearing - Replacement Parts - IMS Bearing Kits - Products

Quotes source post: 20272728

The tool kit that LN sent/loaned to me actually has that one in it as well, and it's far too big for the center stud on mine. If I could just figure out a way to keep the stud from rotating while I thread on the tool, I think I could get it.

How do the thread look on the adapter ? you might want to run a tap thru the adapter, does a visual on the stud of the IMS is visible and look good ?

I think the threads look OK-ish. I took a look under my hobby light/magnifying glass. I'm a pretty new DIY mechanic though, so these might actually look trashed to those of you with more experience though. I cleaned this out with a paper towel since I saw some dirt in there, and I might use like a pipe cleaner on it before trying again. I'll also clean off the threads on the stud.

I definitely run a tap thru there to clean it up.

I'll have to run to HF to get a tap set. Any suggestions on what size/pitch to get for this?

A good tap and die kit with metric and SAE is a great investment for a DIY guy, there will be a thread pitch gauge in the kit or get one separate from HF and then you can tell which tap to use from the gauge. it will be metric on the IMS.

Caught mine in the nick of time! 3/98 Production 1999 C2 - 6 Speed. Brought it into the shop yesterday to get the IMS replaced, UAOS done, Clutch, and Flywheel as well as a water pump. Just got a call from the shop and they said that the IMS was starting to come apart. Whew! I feel pretty lucky. They're going to clean out the tube for metal debris and drop the oil pan as well to clean it out. They also noted my original AOS was finally starting to fail, so good timing there too.

Quotes source post: 20285310

Photos - it's an original bearing from the factory

Can anyone identify this IMS I'm thinking it's aftermarket 2000/2001 3.4 m96/04 Thanks

My 2000 C2 996 has the following engine # 66Y08526 per VIN Analytics. Is that before the change to single row? The car does not have a Manufacture Date plate in the door sill (I assume there was body work done there). Thanks.

What IMS bearing did you replace it with? I have my trans out for some other work and was considering what to do with my IMS. I have a 99 996 with the original dual row bearing.

Quotes source post: 20419592

That would appear to the the Pelican Parts IMS bearing designed by Wayne Dempsey.