No more manuals?

Next Porsche 911 Might (Might) Not Come With A Manual Transmission: Report 10% take rate so no investment in a developing a new manual gearbox? Sad. No wonder it is so difficult to find a manual in a used 911. Seriously, it has become the old dude's prestige car. Just look at the options. SC for rev matching (has to be the most stupid with a manual), PTV for distributing torque between rear wheels so you have no idea what the hell you are doing and what the computer is doing, rear wheel steer (really??) extra money for a decent sounding exhaust, 7k for special paint, leather on the dash, different styling on wheels, painted wheels, extra money to get the Porsche logo painted etc. Might as well buy the Panamera. Too bad the rear seats are so small. Otherwise sit in the back and let the chauffeur drive it. Sorry. Just annoyed with all this. I am beginning to realize how ridiculous it all is. Nothing to do with driving and all to do with bling.

Amen! About 90% of the options have nothing to do with performance, and most of the "performance" options are all digital anyway. I wanted a mechanical limited-slip, but couldn't get that without PTV. My $25K Miata came with a limited-slip diff standard. How can Porsche seriously claim to make sports cars without true performance components standard? Now they're pumping fake engine noise into the cabin a la BMW. The end is near, indeed.

And what do you think the take rate is for the 981/718? How about 10%? And all the other things you mention? They are the same on the 981. So whats the difference? How about the upcoming 991.2 GT3 WILL offer MT? The 991R is MANUAL ONLY. RAS? RAS is very important. Its trickle down tech from the GT3 and TT. How do you think they got Ring times down so much besides tire tech? RAS is part of that. Is this trolling? There is no much wrong here I'm not sure where to begin. 90% of the options have NEVER been about performance. Nothing new here. The Z option list is enormous. Go look at 1985 3.2 option list and find the performance options. How is SPASM digital? Its heavier spring rates, heavier antisway bars, and different aero. How is that digital? PTV on MT cars IS analog. PTV+ on PDK is infinitely variable. Which is better, limited diff with a fixed ratio or infinitely variable based upon circumstances? How are dynamic engine mounts digital that come with the SC? FAKE engine sounds? Where you get that? The sound symposer is the ACTUAL engine intake noise. There is NO reproduction or radio transmission. Have you seen the piping that goes from the engine compartment to interior compartment? Do you know how to remove the insulation in the interior compartment to make it louder? Its NOTHING like BMW. Have you read the technical explanation? Google it. Search for the youtube video showing it. And "How can Porsche seriously claim to make sports cars without true performance components standard?" Do you understand the bespoke pricing strategy of PAG? If a consumer doesn't was RAS, the front axle lift, PDDC, SPASM, etc., why should they pay for it because YOU want it. How does that make sense? Many people HATE PDDC and never want it. Why should I pay for it because YOU might want it. You build the car YOU want and the next guy builds the car the way HE wants. Have you ridden in a SPASM car in the spring on potholed streets on stiff? Don't put your needs above mine nor should I put my needs before yours. That is the essence of the bespoke pricing strategy.

I love my "old dude" CS. Rev matching means great down shifts when I want them. I don't need to prove to myself I can still do them!

I am beginning to realize how ridiculous it all is. Nothing to do with driving and all to do with bling. Elimination of MT is nothing compared to what other car companies are doing. For example check out the 2017 MB E300. It offers aids like Drive Pilot with active lane change assist. Drive Pilot works the gas, brake, and steering at speeds up to 130 MPH. It even changes lanes by itself. All the driver has to do is to hit the turn signal. It also has active brake assist, evasive steering assist, and remote parking pilot. It's not a self driving car but it's dam close. Enter the freeway and set the speed, and the computer does the rest. The E300 will track curves, adjust speed to maintain appropriate spacing, and slow immediately if conditions dictate. All this happens without driver intervention. BTW I've only scratched the surface with respect to the gadgets that the MB E300 offers.

i understand the options are the same on the 981 that I have. But as you educated me in a separate thread regarding a 911 4s, a lot of Porsche options are bling and have nothing to do with enhancing driving pleasure or even performance on the street. if I can extend that argument further, what value does PTV, RAS, PASM, SC or SPASM, have on a street car? The 911R and GT3 are high performance models that are probably more for track junkies than for folks who don't track their cars. A subset in a small volume car. I bought a 981S with a manual transmission, a Bose audio system ( in retrospect a mistake because I don't need it to listen to NPR) and the premium package to get the decent seats with thigh support. A good driving car. I added PSE later because I couldn't hear the standard exhaust. I am losing my hearing after years of working in a high noise environment. My Boxster S is my first Porsche so it is a learning experience for me. It is a fun car but honestly, I had as much fun in my NB Miata. I just feel a lot safer in my Boxster because it is huge in comparison and sure is a lot faster. I will be the first to admit that I am also succumbing to Porsche marketing such as PTS and all the other options that really have nothing to do with driving a fun car on the street.

Glad you like it. You don't have to prove anything. It is your car. I don't have it and didn't feel the need for it or for an automatic transmission. and I am an older dude too soon to be 55.

I should add and forgot - We don't have his and her cars. We have always had OUR cars. And this is what my wife is used to as well. A harsh, low riding, small sports car, some of the smallest, like a supercharged MR2 - 155" long. The Cayman/Boxster is a boat in comparison. Whenever I read people complain how BIG the 911 is, its just laughable as they 981 is a boat too. And if you came from a Miata, then the 981 must feel huge to you too.

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers... do you work for Porsche? - PASM is not a standard spring and damper set up like the sport suspension option. It has electronically controlled dampers just like GM's magnetorheological suspension. - PTV has digital controls of analog components. The computer decides when to apply the brakes. A Focus RS has a better torque vectoring system because it doesn't use brakes... but even that is computer controlled. - Dynamic engine mounts... Porsche website: "electronically controlled system" - Sound from Car and Driver: "[sounds are] supplemented by a synthetic blat , which builds with revs. Utilizing the engine’s manifold pressure sensor, engineers tap the flat-four’s natural resonances and amplify them in the cockpit via a speaker built into the firewall." So it's the actual sounds, but it's still through a speaker I understand milking consumers for everything they're willing to pay... and yes, I'm whining because I'm not willing to pay it. I have a relatively low optioned base Cayman. My point was to agree with Anand's post and lament that true driver's cars are becoming endangered as manufacturers move to more and more electronic controls for everything. Basically, if there's a button to change how something performs, the computer is doing all the work and you're just along for the ride, maybe making occasional suggestions. Yes, the digital stuff can make the car faster, but it comes at the expense of driver involvement. A Nissan GTR is very fast, but I'd never want one. It's like a point and click camera: useful (fast) but not very rewarding.

I think part of the allure of the old air cooled 911s is that they really were race cars. They were built like the endurance race cars they were and virtually everything on the car was beefy and massive and looked indestructible. Porsche also nearly went out of business when street based sports cars began to surpass them performance wise on the street (I still feel like the 911s stood out on the track for being able to handle the abuse). Part of the mid 90s strategy was to build sports cars the way others were (read using cheaper street focused parts). They still sell the track cars (all the GT2, GT3, GT4) but the rest of the cars are built more like other sports cars from other manufactures. That isn't to say they aren't nice. Nor to say they can't be enjoyed on a track. I mean seriously, everyone talks about how the Cayman/Boxster have their wings clipped to stay below the 911 performance wise and even with that handicap I'm hard pressed to find a better sports car than the Cayman. The Corvette is a better performance value but lacks the precision and build quality. Pony cars like the GT350 and Camaro Z28 also have great performance but their weight takes them out of the equation if handling is your main love as well. The Cayman/Boxster have set the standard for 20 years in their segment. But I do share your interest in simplicity and purity in an engaging driving experience without all the aids.

I am going to do everything that Anand is irritated with and then some in my 911 next year with the exception of pdk (I love the manual). I guess I am getting old (50 next month). I'm going to get the two tone leather dash with deviated stitching, the brushed aluminum interior for $995, lane change assist, heated and cooled seats, bose surround, sun roof, PDLS etc. Can't wait! Yes...it's bling and nothing to do with driving. But I wont be using it as a drivers car or a track car. I have my 981 BS for that. It will be my daily driver and I want the interior to be schweet! I will pay for the SC and PSE too. But to add onto the MT with SC discussion....there is more than just rev matching... Let's make the list again (and yes most is bling) SC and sport + mode adds the following 1. G-force meter 2. Relaxes point at which PSM engages 3. Adds sport screen 4. Adds dynamic transmission mounts (on 981), engine mounts on 991. 5. Improved throttle mapping. 6. The cool clock. 7. The ability to download car data to an excel spreadsheet for analysis and uploading to merge with track videos etc. 8. Rev matching. There are probably a few more.

I find it amusing that the intense discussion here is over a fictional piece at Jalopnik. Jalopnik, brought to you by the same company that gave us Gawker. Porsche doesn't do knee jerk decisions and if they wanted to get rid of manuals "soon", they wouldn't have developed a brand new 6 speed for the 911R. Yes, manual transmissions are on their way out. But not any time soon. The 10% are vocal enough and Porsche is one of the last bastions of the manual transmission that we still have a few years. Also, Jalopnik. PS: minimal is relative and all I see here is PDK in "manual" mode.

The documents files with the US for MY2018 911s that include the new GTS clearly show the regular 911s with a manual option. So doomsday is a bit off.

Exactly. That was my point about you bought a 911 and went and raced, not DE, but raced it. This was never true for the Boxster/Cayman. They were and are gateways. What you described is the bespoke pricing model. You spec it as you want it. Don't want an option? Don't buy it. But DO NOT force it on me. People do buy stripped cars all the time. The track junkies get just the performance options and sunroof delete. You have to read the 911 forums. I recently read a story where someone bought a virtually stripped base 911 and did EU delivery. It happens more than you might think. I'm only try to correct or educate somethings that are not correct, nothing more. You wrote " most of the "performance" options are all digital anyway. ... Now they're pumping fake engine noise into the cabin a la BMW. This is not correct so I will explain it in more detail. We are talking 911 here not 981 or 718. I don't know why you are talking about a flat 4 in the 911 forum. PASM is not an option. SPASM is an option. SPASM is ANALOG with four prime components 1. -20mm 2. different aero including different from air dam 3. 28mm front sway bar vs PASM 26.8mm 4. 33nm front spring rate vs 28nm and 108nm rear spring rate vs 62. ​ These are analog components and are the "options" ​ The limited slip in the MT cars is analog PTV is NOT an option. It just exists. The sound symposer is NOTHING like BMW -"ala BMW" which plays on the stereo. its just a tube. This is a 911 discussion. Why are you talking about a Flat 4? See 9:13. Note what he says that such things have always existed. This is not digital but analog. Technology change is inevitable. Otherwise we would be walking everywhere until someone figured out how to ride a horse. Find a SINGLE Millennial, just one, who would know what to do in a panic stop WITHOUT the federally mandated ABS. Do they even know ABS is there? How do you brake hard without ABS? Now add to that mandated stability control and the upcoming collision avoidance, not to mention mandated backup camera. Automation is everywhere. Porsche doesn't want you to bu y MT. They want you to buy PDK - more profit. In Sept, 2015, the PAG CEO, Mathias Muller, now VAG CEO, state that " The brand’s customers, he told the annual conference in Germany, “don’t want a smartphone on four wheels or the biggest touchscreen in the centre console". So what did they do with the newest models? They put in a bigger PCM screen and added carplay. Duh. "True" driver's car disappeared with the first federally mandated electronic controls when the government decided a computer could react better than you (and rightfully so). That was the mid- 1980s, and its only been going downhill since then.

Porsche will sell you whatever you want to buy. There are performance options and there are bling options. Seriously, $600 to paint the logo, $1800 to paint the air vents, $500 for a painted key, how about $540 for colored seat belts. As silly as you might think these things are, people are paying for them. The future is here and cars are changing. I'm not surprised at the low take rate for MT. I drove MT for over 40 years and finally switched to PDK last year. I understand all the arguments for MT but I firmly believe that the demographics are changing and MT will become more and more rare, why wouldn't it since the PDK is faster and more efficient at the same time. The 911 is a prestige car - so is every Porsche. I agree with the poster who says his Miata is more fun, I had a blast with mine. But, I believe that while everyone here seems to want the Porsche ownership experience to be "pure", we buy into the name, the history and the prestige of the marque. I still firmly believe that the Porsche is a fun car but it has moved upmarket over the years. I consider myself to be lucky to own a Porsche and I'm happy with the purchase but I believe that you will find it harder and harder to find a simply specced 911 anymore. I bought mine as a CPO car and it had crests on the seats, crests on the console door, a sunroof I didn't want and a host of other features that I could have done without. Some I've grown to love, ventilated seats come to mind - talk about something I never thought I needed. I look at the used car locator all the time and have come to realize that if I want another CPO 911, it will have a sunroof, entry and drive and a lot of other things I don't want because that's what the majority do want. If I want to keep it simple I would have to buy new and, frankly, I don't want to pay the price for new. I understand your frustration but this is the reality today. Porsche makes some simple cars for the track but they come at a premium price. As for the street, all of the Porsche line is over engineered for the street and probably don't need many of the options you mention but that's what is being marketed and that's what sells.

I have come to the same conclusion and also don't want to buy new. Used I have to take what is there. With my Boxster, I knew exactly what I was getting. A summer weekend, fun car for back roads . And I avoided options I had no need for, knowing it was going to be a limited use car for six months of the year. I am not sure what to make of the low mileage, heavily optioned, automatic 911s that I see being advertised here in the NE. If I put a lot of creature comforts in a car ( all costing extra) with the intention to use it as a tourer, I would expect to use the car a lot to justify the expense. But that is really not that practical in NH and MA even with a 911 4/4s due to limited clearance. So people load it up with options, drive it 3-4K miles a year in the summer and return it often in showroom condition. Porsche is making a ton of money selling these optioned cars using the allure of the 911 badge to attract customers. I am thinking if I really want to experience the feel of a rawer 911, I need to buy the previous generation car.

Everyone has their own definition of what constitutes superfluous add-ons to a Porsche. I would have preferred a few less options on my 911, but buying used requires making compromises. In my view, the 997.2 GTS is pretty well "optioned" with PASM, SC, PSE ( the previous version that doesn't fart, pop and crackle), Sport Seats, BOSE, PDLS, and packages that provide dimming mirrors/rain sensor, heated seats etcetera. Yes, it comes with Centrelocks, which in the mainstream opinion of those who don't have them (lol) are a PITA. Actual owners of cars with CLs are about half in favor, half against. I wouldn't order a car with CLs but now that I have the right tools to remove and replace them easily, I wouldn't shy away from a used car that has them. With a 6-speed and the Aerokit Cup, the delightful old-school fully hydraulic steering rack, and 408 NA HP, my GTS offers a nice blend of comfort and performance. The big bonus is that buying a 2011 911 in 2013, the original owner ate a bunch of the depreciation (I paid $50,000 less than MSRP). After almost 3 years of ownership and 40,000 km, the average BlackBook selling price in Canada is $5,000 more than I paid. Even trade-in value is only about 8-12k less than my purchase price. (I would likely fall on the lowr end of the resale value scale due to miles, but the 6-speed and Aerokit makes my car somewhat unique.) For someone who is seeking a bit of the old-school 911 experience, but wants the 9a1 engine and a few creature comforts, the 997.2 is a solid package. Like the Cayman and Boxster GTS, if you want a bunch of options included in those packages, the Carrera GTS is the way to go so long as none of the package items are non-starters.

997 it is. I am in no hurry so can take my time to find a manual. Who knows maybe I will find one in voodoo blue or at least get it painted without regrets about messing with a new car. I just can't wrap my head around plunking down 100k for a base, luxury-oriented Carrera and the new turbo six does nothing for me sound wise.

When I read the title of this thread I thought you were talking about service manuals. I figured everything would now come on a smart phone.

Wondering if you considered the Panamera S? Has to be more practical and luxurious. Quieter and won't beat you up on long drives. Usable back seat for clients etc.

There are multiple reasons 6MT is fading slowly away. ***Old torque converters had significantly worse acceleration than MT, but it of course cuts the other way with PDK. ***Old torque converters had significantly worse gas mileage than MT, but it of course cuts the other way with PDK. **Old torque converters had significantly slower shifts than were possible with MT, but it of course cuts the other way with PDK. **A high percentage of people with enough money to buy a Porsche live in cities. Traffic problems keep getting worse as a disproportionate number of Americans want to live in the same relatively short list of places, almost all cities. MT isn't much fun in a traffic jam. ***Old slush boxes did not allow for any manual shifting. PDK of course does, albeit without a clutch. ***MT requires a good left ankle, knee, and hip joint. Many people with enough money to buy a Porsche are older. Some have problems with one of these joints. Particularly knees and hips are often troublesome as one ages, and for guys (as opposed to women), the knee is the most common culprit. ***Increasingly there are people (read spouses, adult kids, etc.) who simply cannot drive MT cars. Often people are stuck in a position in which they realize that person may need to use the car occasionally. (That's the reason I have PDK. The irony is the car terrifies her and she never drives it.) Every one of these issues pushes the equation toward PDK and away from MT. These--not just PAG's plan to squeeze another $3200 out of us--are the reasons the MT is sadly disappearing piece by piece. . . .

BMW has been using automatics that solved the first three problems, and have perfect manual control, since at least 2004. You really don't have to go PDK to explain it. Porsche held themselves back by first buying good transmissions (essentially AMGs) and then screwing up manual control again and again. Until the 991 GT3 there always was something wrong in the manual control scheme. BMW has the same perfectly reasonable manual scheme since 2000 or 2001 (although paddle shifters came later).

So, when I start to measure my gas mileage with an eye dropper, my acceleration with a digital stop watch, my damage from abusing launch control, my less than perfect heal & toe shifting with pressing a flimsy flapper, start allowing people who can't drive an MT to touch my car, have my left knee fail, and am willing to invest four large for a tranny I don't want....it will be PDK time for me, after 8 MT Porsches and 1 PDK mistake. Unfortunately for Porsche, when that time comes, it won't be one of their products I move to.

And that's why it is good to have the option to choose. As long as Porsche continues to offer both transmissions there will be proponents and opponents of both. The gas mileage and timed benefits are hardly significant but, the differences between an S and non-S version fall into those same type of parameters. Ultimately, it comes down to what you prefer rather than what might be better. The paddle controls are hardly flimsy and, personally, I don't care if someone who can't drive an MT drives my car, not a big factor. I drove MT for over 40 years in a variety of cars and I don't miss it at all. Of course, I use my car as a DD in a heavily trafficked area. The money is simply another version of a Porsche overpriced option. However, there are so many examples of price gouging in the configurator that I don't see it as a factor either. You pay to play. While I see no benefit in things like red seatbelt or a Burmeister stereo, I realize that having that choice is a good thing because some people do see a benefit. Anecdotally, I have a friend who is a writer. He still writes on a typewriter - hates word processing and computers. Might it be more efficient to use a computer - probably but, for him, the typewriter is the right choice. So I say, enjoy the MT and be happy that you have the option to do so.