Power Plant for the 991.2 GTS?

I am expecting that the 991.2 GTS will be announced late 2016 or early 2017 (correct me if I am off base). Does anybody have any insight or speculation on the engine that it will have? I have not heard any rumors on the internet other than it will also be a turbo. http://********.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif I have little motivation to order a S over a Base for an extra $14k since the engine displacement is the same and both have huge acceleration (I would not be able to tell the difference in acceleration between the S and the Base honestly). The PTV and larger front brakes will also be unnoticeable to me unless I took it to the track which I will not. The status of the S badge is irrelevant to me since I will delete it anyway. Based on comments from PAG leadership, the 991.2 GTS will also be turbo so there is also no incentive to buy a GTS just for the NA nostalgia. Do you think the GTS will have a higher displacement? ...or is it gong to just be an increase in turbo boost that only adds more stress to a smaller displacement engine anyway.

In which case buying a Powerkit car will be of no use to you since you won't be able to tell the difference between the X51 option and base S engine. No. Traditional Power Kits make power the old fashioned way. They polish the existing heads, increase the breathing, and use a more radical cam. I see no reason for them to move away from the traditional method for purpose of reliability. Cranking up the boost without a corresponding increase in the engine internals is a good way for early engine failure, something those who seek more power by chipping tend to forget about. However, for a car maker to do that without having already beefing up the internals would open them up to more warranty claims. The Macan GTS engine seems to have just increased the S boost. What we don't know is if the S engine was already robust enough handle the increased power. Then again, I would not expect SUV owners to abuse the boost as much as sports car buyers, so who knows. They are two entirely different class of cars. I suspect the SUV drivers would NOT be driving mostly in boost. OTH, since the 911 would be used on track days or driven hard far more often than the SUV, its internal might be radically different. I dont know.

I get all that....but here is the difference. The S and the Base for the 991.2 is the same displacement unlike the 991.1. The only real change is the turbo boost increase which essentially costs Porsche zero dollars. (I have also heard the turbos are bigger on the S though). For the GTS, the running theory is that the turbo boost will be increased even more on the same displacement engine. Their profit margin is going to be huge on the S and GTS if this is the case since there is little R&D needed - not an entirely different engine. So from my perspective, the increase in boost for a huge price tag is not worth it to me without real increases in displacement or beefed up components on the engine (like X51 has). Otherwise, there is actually disincentive to me since reliability will go down for the engine as you step up from the base to the S to the GTS since there is more stress on the same size engine as HP and boost increase. So that is why I was asking for speculation or rumors on the GTS power plant for the 991.2.

I didn't see actual information yet on what engine the GTS gets. It might take a long time since GTS models are generally end of model generation vehicles. This is a big deal for me since I want convertibles. The GT3, GT2 and R things are not what I want. If they show some sense and put a NA engine into the next GTS then that means I can have it as a convertible (and probably a targa). Yes, I am aware that it will be even more upsell price delta for the GTS than it already was. Hopefully they do something else cool with the monies they charge.

Well this is the path they chose between the Macan S and GTS, and if all they are doing is dialing up the boost, then that means the reliability has been built in and the base and S are dialed way back and chipping it is the way to go. Forget about the GTS bling (that is, if it doesn't become illegal because of the DMCA ruling).

I have read numerous quotes from PAG leadership and it looks like the GTS is going to be turbo not NA. I think they will announce the GTS within 10 months only because they have nothing else to announce on the 911 lineup. They already announced the Targa, Turbo/S and Base and S. I think they are going to short cycle the 991.2. The 992 has several mules sighted running around Germany.

911 base and S have same displacement...same engine but different software? Sounds like a smart move.

Absolutely a smart move from an economies of scale perspective and minimizing cost. Helps Porsche a lot. I'm not so sure that paying another 14k for a ECU tune is worth it.

Is this an unusual period we are entering into, with no GTS model in either sport car lineup? It's just a guess, but I'm going to say Porsche will use increased displacement when they do offer the GTS models. Use of some more exotic parts might do it, but it's probably cheaper to just increase displacement a little. By then they will know what, if any, weak spots exist in the new engines, and can address them and can tweak emissions a bit tighter if needed. They probably don't even know which way they will go, yet.

I think the 991.2 GTS will use the same engine as the S with a little extra boost and I think you'll see it for 2018. I don't think they're pushing the 3.0 F6 TT at 420hp and can probably extract another 20-30 with software only. However, there is a bit of precedent where a GTS model retained the previous generation engine while the S went with a smaller displacement turbo: the Panamera. First generation Panamera S and GTS both had a 4.8L V8. The facelift S got a 3.0L V6 TT while the facelift GTS kept the 4.8L V8. Both facelift cars make the same peak torque (at different RPM). But I still think the 991.2 GTS uses the 3.0 F6 TT from the 991.2 S, mainly because the NA 3.8 even at X51+ levels would have a hard time keeping up with the 3.0 in the 991.2.

991.2 GTS on the way.... Here is a great find that someone posted on another forum. The below link is the California Air Resource Board's approval of the next line of Porsche 991.2s. See page 4 of the pdf. Note that the 991.2. GTS will be a 2017 model, retain the same 3L engine as the Base and S and will also remain turbo. That sucks. I was secretly hoping Porsche would increase engine displacement and keep the car NA. I can't believe that they are just going to keep all the 991.2 engines as a 3L with just a turbo boost between models while charging huge premiums to step up. There is much less incentive to get the S or GTS over the Base. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2017/porsche_pc_a0190236_3d0_l3-160.pdf

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... I think you miss the GTS point. The GTS cars are a nice combination of popular options plus some unique extras and a bit of power hike from the existing platform..for example the 991 got the power kit x"standard" and the 981 got a 15hp bump by way of tune. The 991 GTS didn't get the 4.0 motor for example. Now , I bought a Cayman GTS because of the options, look and got a car that was bEtter than the sum of its parts. It's is a GREAT car. I had seen some of the wishful thinking that the new GTS cars would retain NA motors, never believed it. So, the new car will retain the 3.0 turbo, will probably get some nice options as standard, some external visual cues, and will likely be another great car. And that is OK by me. Regards D

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... i think it is too much to hope for a NA engine in the GTS. The existing GTS models are more of a combo of popular options, a modest power bump and some unique styling cues. After reading and watching a bunch of video reviews of the new 911, I am somewhat skeptical that it would a great street car for someone like me. I like manuals and the high revving nature of the 3.4L. This afternoon I went for a nice drive in my Boxster on backroads wth speed limits of 35-55 mph. I drove mostly in second and third gear keeping the rpms between 3000-5000 rpms. With the sport exhaust on, it was fun. The turbo six has so much low end torque and plus with the tall gearing in the manual, where is the opportunity to rev the engine? Plus with the muted sound of the turbo six, I fear it will be more like driving a fast and quiet sport sedan. Anyway, a test drive should dispel these misgivings. At this point though, I am leaning more towards a 997.2 manual when the time comes.

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... I think this is the better way to express it: Some of us were hoping that Porsche would expand the meaning of GTS. From what you say above (which is true). To saying "gets the cool engines but not the most powerful one". That would allow a 991.2 GTS to get a bigger naturally aspirated engine, while staying below GT3, GT3RS and R. The reason why we (I at least) were hoping for that isn't money. It is that we (I) want a convertible or at least a targa. Some might want the cool but less powerful engine with back seats. I would love to have the GT3 suspension but hey that is secondary.

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... It's hard for street use with maybe occasional tracking not to like the options on the GTS. AND a NA 3.8L engine howling towards 8000 rpm. 450 Hp would be perfect. And give us the option of bigger steel brakes. That is where the 911 GTS should slot.

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... Well here is nice video comparison from our 911 enthusiast Mr. Murray. 1,0 versus 2.0. Have to applaud him for these useful videos. The turbo six doesn't sound bad but I detected a bit of turbo whine in one of the acceleration runs and it sounds nothing like that wonderful 3.8L. However not bad at all i.e the new engine with the sport exhaust. Sounds like a sport sedan. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix5cmBaBiNM

Re: 991.2 GTS on the way.... The 400Hp 3.8L TT doesn't sound bad either, and it pulls like a beast from 1500 to near 6000 rpm, especially in Sport+ Mode with short term over-boost. The problem is it doesn't sizzle and sing from 5000 to 7500rpm like the 430Hp NA 3.8L F6 in the 991GTS. The twin turbo just underwhelms in the upper rev range, spoiling the music and the adrenalin. But if ur the kind of guy who will buy a PDK and drive it in Auto mode, cruising at 1100-1300 rpm with the PSE turned off, u might just love the TT engine. To each his own! (Who first said that?)