2010 997.2 Turbo vs 991 C2S - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Looking at my next DD.Driving them both on Saturday but keen for opinions from fellow owners. Both at 11,000kms. Something tells me once I experience the Turbos acceleration that alone will be enough to seal the deal....

its a very close thing between the two cars. 991's better exhaust note makes the car much more of an event. turbos pace is comical.

I've driven a 997 Turbo'S' and several 991 C2'S's, plus a C4'S'. IMO the Turbo had impressive capabilities, with phenomenal acceleration. But, the 991s are notably improved in several key areas, especially for DD use. My favourite would be the C4'S' - the chassis felt better than the Turbo, the steering felt better than the C2, it has the PSE which sounded fantastic, but you need to use Sport or Sport+ to get maximum performance.

997 TT acceleration and phenomenal

This 991 doesn't have the sports exhaust, but it is being sold through the premier Porsche dealer in the country. Can they retrofit one if I desired?

Koln-RS said: I've driven a 997 Turbo'S' and several 991 C2'S's, plus a C4'S'. IMO the Turbo had impressive capabilities, with phenomenal acceleration. But, the 991s are notably improved in several key areas, especially for DD use. My favourite would be the C4'S' - the chassis felt better than the Turbo, the steering felt better than the C2, it has the PSE which sounded fantastic, but you need to use Sport or Sport+ to get maximum performance. This mirrors my experience. Only thing is turbo has higher kudos but would take 7.2t over 91c2s but not 91c4s but must have sports chrono and pse.

Drove a C2S with PDK. Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me. Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup. Now to drive the turbo.

But then the steering is not electric either, might not be as bad as you expect....

piston3461 said: Drove a C2S with PDK. Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me. Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup. Now to drive the turbo. Surprised to hear this, did it have sports chrono?

Callughan said: piston3461 said: Drove a C2S with PDK. Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me. Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup. Now to drive the turbo. Surprised to hear this, did it have sports chrono? Very strange. I was coming out of an M3 DCT and when I test-drove the 991 S pdk I knew immediately I had signed away a lot of money.. the box was so much better it was not even comparable, truly. And the noise with PSE and fell-good factor were also clearly above. Cabin feels way more special too, the only downside was the Nav of the E92 (I had the facelift model) which was clearly superior (second screen aside for the 991 which never failed to impress..) As for the turbo.. I think speed novelty factor will wear off quickly, especially if you want to keep your licence for more than a few days. The n/a feeling, immediacy and crispness of the S I subjectively think gives much more satisfaction.. I have a friend with a 997.1 Turbo and he tells me that when they give him a replacement S he enjoys it more on B-roads mixed driving. Not to mention the cabin of the 991 compared to 997.2 which is 10 years ahead..

piston3461 said: Drove a C2S with PDK. Not enough of a step up above the E92 for me. Disliked the steering, very little feel in comparison with the M3 setup. Now to drive the turbo. You won't like steering on the turbo then. Its vague and imprecise compared to a C2S. It will drop an E92 like a stone though in terms of performance. Edited to add I had not realised it was a 991 C2s you had tested when comparing steering to 997 turbo. I've spent a few weeks in a 991 C2s and thought it was fabulous. Just couldn't get over the £60k change over figure to chop a 997 turbo in for a 991 C2S. The styling on the 991 isn't quite as pretty as 997 IMO either but 991 way better car. Edited by IMI A on Saturday 7th June 13:59

To be fair, the 991 S is so competent that at sane speeds you don't really get the rear engined characteristic feel of a 911, so much so, that cabin aside it isn't really going to feel altogether different to the M3. And around those speeds it isn't even that much faster. An extended drive might convince though. Not driven a 997.2 turbo, but with PCM3.0 it's not 10yrs dated compared to the 991, aside from the extra screen (which is cool) and Bluetooth streaming, it's up to date.

The 991s interior is only superior if you like BMWs, in many respects it's a step back and I very much hope that the 918 interior is adopted quickly and the panamera interior binned. Major mistake by Porsche to use it on the sports cars. The Turbo can be quite an event to drive if specced well, I find the bog standard cars without Aerokit and buckets a bit bland. In terms of drive they are far apart in terms of comparison, I do a lot of A road and M way driving and the turbo gives total control over the road and a sense of power that the carrera can't match. It's highly addictive fun and safe (driver dependent!). The 991 is too big for B road attack, I would sooner buy a boxster/cayman for that.

Tough one. For me its 997.2 Turbo with an after market exhaust. The 991 C2S is a game changer in terms of cabin quality and ride, but 997.2 is such a spectacular performer on A or B roads. The feel and handling of the CS2 IMHO slightly worse than the 997.2 Turbo - later version maybe better following the 991 GT3/Turbo improvement on the electric power steering but not 12 months ago. I took the 997.2 Turbo to Craig's Hypermax, mainly because of the bad weather, and the drive was wondrous. I forgot how good the handling is and the stellar performance. It made short work of depatching the slow traffic that annoyingly gets in the way on a fast romp cross county to BPG. ..and then onto hypermax, 0-100 in 7.5secs followed by an indicated 201 on the speedo just like that. No problem in scrubbing the speed off with those ceramics to take the first corner. The brunters back corners showed how well the 997.2 holds on achieving 100+ on my favourite fast corner. A complete hoot. I could have done some drifting, such is the confidence that this machine inspires, but previous experience showed that the brunters thought police normally take a dim view of this. I know that its not a challenging drive as some (but neither is the 991 C2S) but on a track its f king quick, confident and with a after market exhaust sound glorious!

Tough one for sure. 50/50 for me, but do think the Turbo thrill might wear off after a while if I still have my licence.

rosino said: Very strange. I was coming out of an M3 DCT and when I test-drove the 991 S pdk I knew immediately I had signed away a lot of money.. the box was so much better it was not even comparable, truly. And the noise with PSE and fell-good factor were also clearly above. Cabin feels way more special too, the only downside was the Nav of the E92 (I had the facelift model) which was clearly superior (second screen aside for the 991 which never failed to impress..) As for the turbo.. I think speed novelty factor will wear off quickly, especially if you want to keep your licence for more than a few days. The n/a feeling, immediacy and crispness of the S I subjectively think gives much more satisfaction.. I have a friend with a 997.1 Turbo and he tells me that when they give him a replacement S he enjoys it more on B-roads mixed driving. Not to mention the cabin of the 991 compared to 997.2 which is 10 years ahead.. It had the sports chrono package. The PDK is better than the M DCT without a doubt in terms of smoothness, it shifts faster but with less drama. There aren't any neck snapping shifts. Auto mode is amazing to potter along in. Rear traction was phenomenally better in the 911, I was flooring it on a damp road with no SC or TC intrusion at all. Sound was great, loved having it fill your ears from behind. However the sound on sharp downshifts for me never had that zing than the M V8 would produce. As it revs less than the M3 it also didn't rev match as high, so that probably played a part. However it wasn't equipped with the PSE which I am told makes a big difference. Cabin is better, but considering the price it was disappointing to have a hard touch dash and door cards like you would find on a base model econobox. Extended leather should be standard on every 911 in my eyes. In terms of speed, felt fairly on par with the M3. Absolutely loved how much lower down I was sitting. Great car, and if I didn't own the M3 and hadn't driven the new M4 (low to mid range torque is savage and addicting) I probably would have gone for it. But as it stands I'm after more of a jump in performance and something I can scare myself in from time to time but also drive everyday in comfort. The C2S isn't that car for me. Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:50 Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:51 Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:53 Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:56 Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:57 Edited by piston3461 on Sunday 8th June 06:59

piston3461 said: Great car, and if I didn't own the M3 and hadn't driven the new M4 (low to mid range torque is savage and addicting) I probably would have gone for it. But as it stands I'm after more of a jump in performance and something I can scare myself in from time to time but also drive everyday in comfort. The C2S isn't that car for me. The turbo is your friend then. Its Ariel Atom quick. I know these cars are licence losing, but I've been hooning very fast machinery for at least 15 years with no points so far (touch my thick wooden head ). The trick is to have one eye on the rev counter and the other on the speedo. The 997.2 makes this easy by putting both on the same dial . Put it in manual mode and use the flappies or if manual .. err use the heel and toe clutch ... then you will watch the rev dial like a hawk to avoid bouncing off the limiter. That needle is lightning quick when you are pushing on! You will definitely get a jump in performance going from the M3. I went from an M6 to the 997.2 Turbo. It was night and day difference in terms of handling, feel and grin factor ... but little or nothing beats the 8000rpm howl of a V10

I have a 997.1 tip turbo, and my cousin had a 991 C4S PDK and I had a good drive in his car. My opinion is : The sound is nicer in the 991. The handling felt a little 'soft' for me compared to the 997, his car felt bigger. The acceleration is nowhere near as impressive in the 991 - the great figures on paper are due to the PDK, the in gear acceleration isn't that impressive compared to the 997.1 turbo. Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one. The interior is an improvement, but it's certainly not a bad place to be in the 997: My cousin however, much prefers the kudos of having the most recent car so for him, having faced the same question (but with a 997.2 turbo S) he chose the 991 C4S. He did often comment that he was disappointed in the power of his car vs. his previous powerkitted C63 AMG. He only ended up keeping it for about a year.

vinnie83 said: Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one. I've always felt that the two need to be compared side by side, the difference between Gen1 and 2 are so great. When I test drove an Gen2 PDK I was shocked at the advances made.

FeelingLucky said: vinnie83 said: Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one. I've always felt that the two need to be compared side by side, the difference between Gen1 and 2 are so great. When I test drove an Gen2 PDK I was shocked at the advances made. Oh yes the 997.2 is a huge improvement (unless you want to tune) so having felt my 997.1 turbo was better, then I can confidently say that IMO the 997.2 turbo would be the better car, unless not having the latest shape bothers you.

I'd have been looking at a 997 GTS before looking at a 991S... OP - is there a reason that you weren't?

vinnie83 said: FeelingLucky said: vinnie83 said: Having driven the 997.2 turbo PDK, it is a big jump up on my car, and I left the 991 feeling disappointed and glad to be back in my 997 so for me the choice of a 997.2 turbo would be the one. I've always felt that the two need to be compared side by side, the difference between Gen1 and 2 are so great. When I test drove an Gen2 PDK I was shocked at the advances made. Oh yes the 997.2 is a huge improvement (unless you want to tune) so having felt my 997.1 turbo was better, then I can confidently say that IMO the 997.2 turbo would be the better car, unless not having the latest shape bothers you. Also tested the 997.1 Turbo and the 997.2 is definitely better even just from the PDK and flappy paddle POV. The vectoring, dynamic engine mounts etc also seems to make a difference - not normally a massive lover of driver aids but these seem to make the car more confident in the bends - worth testing a 997.2 with these on

I had a 997 Turbo ‘S’ for three years. IMO: • Very fast, through a narrow power band, but I actually prefer the linear delivery of a n/a 911. • PDK is very clever, but I think the Turbo would better suit the 6-spd manual (not available on the 'S') as the driver is more involved and can better exploit the amazing torque. • The various driver aid options do make subtle differences, but also add weight and complexity. The pccbs, though, are fantastic. • Handling and steering are all of a high order, particularly in adverse weather, but not as rewarding as some of the best rwd 911s • Ride is very firm, with quite a lot of tiresome road noise (whatever the tyres) that intrudes into the cabin. The 991s are much improved in these areas • Engine/exhaust sound is much criticised. The 997.2 Turbos sound a bit better than the 997.1 Turbos, and pushing the 'Sport' button makes it a touch more fruity. Porsche don't make or recommend a PSE for the Turbos, and IMO they only make it louder • By contrast, the 991s sound much better, even without PSE. With PSE the 991s sound amazing, but you can't help feeling it's a contrived noise • Cabin architecture is fine, but again the 991s have taken this to another level - especially if you are looking for a 'luxury GT'. • Fuel consumption (if it matters) will be low 20s. 991s will do low 30s. • The Turbo badge will carry some kudos, but only you can decide which is the better car. Worth also trying a 997 GTS (manual) and a 991 C4S (PDK) for a complete comparison

So just finished up a test drive of the Turbo. Love the interior, still feels plenty modern for me. Looks even better in person, the colour is Meteor grey. Immaculate inside and out, hasn't even had its first service yet. As for driving: There is no way I can buy a C2S after experiencing this thing. I knew it was going to be fast but the surge is simply unreal. It is stomach churning fast. The ride with the dampers on normal is very good I found, sport dampers is a bit too harsh but in all honesty I would never have a use for them. I love the sound (or lack thereof to some), sounds like a jet on full blast. Throttle response was excellent as was the PDK. The steering is lovely, feels better than the rack in the 991 to me. It really is the perfect everyday supercar and something I can see myself hanging onto for a very long time. Thanks to everyone for your input, hope to see some of you around the forums in future. Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 10:07

Good choice! My 997 turbo still makes me laugh when I floor it. The grip is unreal, I am yet to get the Psm light on but I don't think I have the guts to go much faster. The noise is different, I like it with the windows down, you can hear the air being sucked up. Although only bought April 2013, it's the longest I have kept a fun car, and I can't see me getting rid anytime soon. I'm still only on 5200 miles so perhaps not properly run in yet! What's the spec?

Meteor grey sport chrono, extended leather, carbon interior package, carbon door sills, bluetooth/ipod, sport steering wheel with paddles, adaptive sports seats, brand new pilot super sports Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 11:32

Lovely, same colour as mine. Does the extended leather cover the whole dash? Mine has the front half leather, is that standard?

Yep the whole dash is leather.extended leather option = full leather dash, door panels, and centre console I think? Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:33 Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:34 Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:41 Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:45

piston3461 said: Yep the whole dash is leather.extended leather option = full leather dash, door panels and center console I think. Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:33 Edited by piston3461 on Friday 13th June 12:34 Didn't realise that was an option - I'm sure my 997.1 turbo came with that as standard?

Good choice! I had a Tip Gen 1 Turbo and test drove a 997.2 Turbo S against a then brand new 991 Carrera S demo at the same price and it was easy decision; the Turbo is so, so much quicker! In fact, as another owner mentioned, the difference between the 997.1 and 997.2 Turbo is quite marked, especially with the options the Turbo S comes with. You may have the 'old' car but you have the boss! The 991 is a considerably better daily driver, but loses an element of drama and entertainment as a result. This was emphasized when i more recently sampled a 991 Turbo S and it felt slower due to being a more sanitized package. In the end we got a new Boxster S too. Sound phenomenal with PSE and top down, has more luggage space than the 991 and prefer how it drove, and saved about £15-20k on an equivalent specced 991 Carrera S.

Frozen vinnie83 said: piston3461 said: Yep the whole dash is leather.extended leather option = full leather dash, door panels and center console I think. Didn't realise that was an option - I'm sure my 997.1 turbo came with that as standard? No, standard leather is all the important bits, including front of dash and sides of centre console. For £1100 the extended dash leather includes air vents and air slats and the horizontal trim and few other tiny bits in leather. Personally prefer the standard silver trim on vents etc to break up the dark interior. Extended leather to doors is £175 and just replaces door handle from silver to leather, again prefer std

Adam B said: No, standard leather is all the important bits, including front of dash and sides of centre console. For £1100 the extended dash leather includes air vents and air slats and the horizontal trim and few other tiny bits in leather. Personally prefer the standard silver trim on vents etc to break up the dark interior. Extended leather to doors is £175 and just replaces door handle from silver to leather, again prefer std So this musn't have extended leather after all then. Air vents are silver as you can see. Edited by piston3461 on Saturday 14th June 14:03 Edited by piston3461 on Saturday 14th June 14:04

piston3461 said: So this musn't have extended leather after all then. Air vents are silver as you can see. correct the leather / stitching at front of dash and side of PCM is standard, there is a baffling selection of interior options if you post up the option codes from the service booklet sticker, happy to decipher

Everything can be covered in leather even stalks if you wish. You will know if you have extended leather if the top of the dash i.e. bit that touches window has leather and stitching. On gen 2 love the centre locks.

Callughan said: Everything can be covered in leather even stalks if you wish. You will know if you have extended leather if the top of the dash i.e. bit that touches window has leather and stitching. On gen 2 love the centre locks. Ah OK. That part is leather and stitched so it must have it then. Didn't realize you can further outfit other parts with even more leather.

Callughan said: Everything can be covered in leather even stalks if you wish. You will know if you have extended leather if the top of the dash i.e. bit that touches window has leather and stitching. On gen 2 love the centre locks. Hi Cal - thought it was just the speakers and windscreen defroster thing in leather? OP - option code is EAA

Hi mate, if you have a look at Carl docklands profile he has a link to pics of his car, that shows the leather upgrades.

Callughan said: Hi mate, if you have a look at Carl docklands profile he has a link to pics of his car, that shows the leather upgrades. Here's the link if anyone needs it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/10694228@N08/sets/72... Thanks for that, definitely prefer the silver trim breaking up all the darker colours around it.