119 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH3.6 rebuild
Leading reported evidence
Clean &
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
With any engine rebuild I always have the fuel injectors pressure cleaned & tested for spray pattern & volume.
Leading evidence: 'Clean &' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '& keep in mind it may be ok now' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust timing litle off' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Fuel rails were cleaned thoroughly when I had the engine out and did not see any sludge or blockages (of course I didn't boroscope it).
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When I did my top end last month I sent the injectors off and had them tested, cleaned - new filters and o-rings.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
With any engine rebuild I always have the fuel injectors pressure cleaned & tested for spray pattern & volume.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I use a local guy for my engine balancing, I have used him since I worked @ Shelby & he did all the stroker engines.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
& keep in mind it may be ok now
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Identified cause
1
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause · Original poster
+ anything that shows wear or is suspect & keep in mind it may be OK now but you want it to last 100,000 + more miles so if in doubt replace now while it's easy.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
119 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
LNengineering supplies the 99mm nickies sleeves, IMS ceramic bearing w/ billet flange, chromoly oilpump drive shaft, JE forged pistons, liteweight pins & rings, 160 degree thermostat, billet magnetic drain plug, & ARP rod bolts. Including shipping block to & from thats about $5800. Everything else is Porsche oem parts to replace worn internal parts.
I meant faster more pics, not faster rebuild faster. Faster anything means more mistakes which you don't want to do with $5800.
I might be shortly behind you next year some time... my 996's piston rings in bank 1 (yes all three cylinders) could be shot... or perhaps just a fuel delivery imbalance... more investigation soon with leak down and compression tests and Durametric sleuthing.
Too bad it wasn't the valve guides (5 of which were completely gone) when I recently did that work and had the engine down to the short block.
With any engine rebuild I always have the fuel injectors pressure cleaned & tested for spray pattern & volume. There is always 1 or 2 in the bunch pretty clogged or dripping. If you have a 3.4 they are bad about irregular cylinder wear since they have the thinnest cylinder walls.
When I did my top end last month I sent the injectors off and had them tested, cleaned - new filters and o-rings. All were in acceptable margins, aside from one which had a leak at the nozzle - and they all came out "near new" after the cleaning procedure.
There is a note in the WSM about the newer "light green" colored injectors with improved spray pattern for engines >/= MY 2000 (Y s/n). According to the WSM it is permissible for <2000 year engines to have a mixed configuration.
In my case I wanted more torque over stock & to replace oem IMS bearing. Generally speaking anytime camshaft deviation is excessive & fluctuates at idle, this can be caused by excessively worn chain wear pads & is not uncommon after 70k miles. Or if the engine is worn to the point it fails to pass emission testing due to excessively worn cylinders &/or rings.
Fuel rails were cleaned thoroughly when I had the engine out and did not see any sludge or blockages (of course I didn't boroscope it). Injectors were marginal/good and came back perfect from cleaning service with new rings/filters/etc.
I am leaning more towards worn rings or oval cylinder(s) at this point. Strange thing is, it seems like it is the entire bank 1, and it happened somewhat suddenly... 15-20k miles ago (50k) there was not a hint of a problem...
Leak down/compression tests coming soon. (but in my own thread)
Anyways, I don't want to hijack this guys great thread, so bring on the pics!!!
I have been down for a week, had to special order another case alignment dowel pin. Should be in today so I can join the case halves. More pic's coming.
Can you give some rough cost on reconditioning heads, cleaning injectors, etc. Also which bolts you decide to replace vs which you are going to reuse.z which components will you replace... I am sure AOS, chains and chain guides, but how about sensors etc. I priced everything out and it is easy to get to 15k pretty quick...
Heads: valve job,check springs,resurface,pressure test for cracks $500.
Injectors: clean & test $150
Bolts: ARP rod bolts $170. + anything that shows wear or is suspect & keep in mind it may be OK now but you want it to last 100,000 + more miles so if in doubt replace now while it's easy. Make sure you have the latest version updated chain tensioners etc. 2001+. Sensors, I have not had any problem with, I make sure all that works before pulling the engine, especially oil pressure sensor.
Hey bypro, did you have to go with LNE's larger head gasket set p/n 106-09.3/101 $320.46? Or were you able to stay stock with those?
Also did you go with Ampco bushes with your ARP rod bolts, or stay stock?
If I follow in your footsteps, I am definitely doing ARP head studs and ARP main bolts.
Looks great, keep the pics coming!
Logray -
On a side note, you have a 3.4 which has a different configuration on the
coolant
passages in the head gaskets than the 3.6. On the 3.4 engines the openings on the head gaskets where different sizes to control the
coolant
flow to the areas of the engine. The ones toward the rear of the car (cylinders 1&4) were smaller to reduce to the flow, as you move forward on the engine the openings became progressively larger for more flow. The idea was to balance the flow from those closer to the
water
pump with those further downstream. This was supposed to even out the cooling. For what ever reason Porsche changed this on the 3.6 engines/gaskets so that all the openings in the head gaskets are the same size. I forget where I read this but it is supposed to be one of the reasons they have had certain issues with hot spots and wear in the 3.6 engines.
Not a well known difference. I am not sure what Flat6/LNE does with their specialized head gaskets, but the concept of having different oil passages to balance the flow seems to make sense.
This is the reason that on 3.4 engines the head gaskets are different for 1-3 and 4-6 while in the 3.6 engines both sides are the same.
Thanks Doug for the info as always. Curious though, did bypro have a 3.4L block made to 3.6 or a 3.6 made to 3.8? I think his is also a 3.4 made to a 3.6.
And as for the head gasket, the question is more along the lines of will the stock head gasket work with the new 99mm LNE bore since both the 3.4l and 3.6l have 96mm stock bores. The only info I can see on LNE's website is: "3.6 or 3.8 to 4.0 101mm head gasket set". Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but "3.6" on the LNE price sheet applies to the "after" boring size of 99mm (for example even with a 3.4 that has been made to a 3.6 w/99mm)??? I would be concerned the stock 3.4L head gasket's bore openings wouldn't be large enough.
Also I answered my own question partially he did go with the ARP rod bolts, but not sure about the ampco bushings.
Cool, so you are using these P/N's then - they have a 99mm bore?
99610427006 1 1-3 head gasket
99610426901 1 4-6 head gasket
This is a 3.4L -> 3.6L correct?
Or is yours 3.6L -> 3.8L ???
Also are you using 30 wt (or other) break in oil for the first 500 miles? What brand?
Just curious bypro.
Are you going for 0 degrees cam timing or are you advancing it at all?
Also are you using a degree wheel and split overlap or are you just trusting the TDC notch & boss/lockpin along with the notches in the cam using the timing tool?
I have thought the same thing, is there some benifits to adjust the timing litle off from the factory settings?
Allso has some one measured the original timing of the cams?
Duration, overlap and timing?
I'm installing the cams straight up using the factory method. This is 3.4 cams in 3.6L so I don't want to advance them. C.R. is 11.8 running CA 91 octane premium so I doubt I get full ignition advance during WOT anyway. In this configuration low rpm torque is great & redline comes on amazingly quick & if you want to shift powerband higher just install headers.
I have seen basic cam specs somewhere in the service manuals.
Neato, found this for 3.6 & vcam plus:
And this for 3.4L
1mm valve travel
outlet opens 15 deg after TDC 141 deg
247 center
outlet closes 59 deg after BDC 353 deg
inlet opens 39 deg before BDC 375 deg
487 center
inlet closes 7 deg before TDC 599 deg
[QUOTE=Byprodriver;8927994]I'm installing the cams straight up using the factory method. This is 3.4 cams in 3.6L so I don't want to advance them. C.R. is 11.8 running CA 91 octane premium so I doubt I get full ignition advance during WOT anyway. In this configuration low rpm torque is great & redline comes on amazingly quick & if you want to shift powerband higher just install headers.
Cam Timing notches:
Not sure I understand what you are doing. Did you take a 3.4 VarioCam engine and increase the displacement to 3.6 (Nikkies?) or was this a 3.6 VarioCamPlus engine and you are using 3.4 cams. That does not make sense to me as the intake cams on a 3.6 are quite different/two stage lobs.
Hey Bypro, what are the torque specs you are using on your ARP hardware for main and rod bolts. I've read in several places about revised specs but can't seem to find the info.
Also, who did your crankshaft balance, was it Flat 6 Innovations?
I use a local guy for my engine balancing, I have used him since I worked @ Shelby & he did all the stroker engines. I haven't used the ARP main bolts but the rod bolt instructions call for 45 ft./lbs.
$4100 Nikasil rebore and JE pistons
$800-1k Valve job and engine balancing
$2-3k OE Porsche Parts
$1-2k Other stuff (lifters, break in oil, ARP bolts, LNE paddle, etc.)
I think it can be done for $8-10k on a budget DIY.
Other optional above this "while you're in there" would be rods @ $1.5k, performance camshaft grind @ $850.
And this is with out labour, assuming you rebuild the engine by your self.
It takes easily 30h of work to do this.... Just for the engine, plus the work to remove and install the engine to the car.
Interesting... my 3.4l to 3.6l conversion JE pistons arrived today and they are flat topped, unlike the ones in the engine you built. Same marking on the back, 96MC4.
Also, reading LN's support site, they recommend a minimum .002" of end gap per inch of bore for the rings. 2nd ring .001" larger, and .015" for the oil rings. Wear limit being 0.0393". With a bore size of 3.8976" this works out to something completely different (less than half) of what JE recommends.
Top = .0077"
2nd = .0087"
Oil = .0150"
Yet reading JE's end gap instructions, they recommend .0045"/bore inch for the top ring and .0050" for the 2nd ring, same min .015" for the oil ring as LNE.
Top = .0175"
2nd = .0194"
Oil = .0150"
I am slowly tearing down my 3.4 with cracked cylinder #2
, finally have it apart to crankshaft craddle!
what type of brush do you use? Plastic bristles - like a toothbrush? How much did you dilute the simple green?
How did you remove the head gasket material?
How about storage after you clean everything? The camshafts are steel right? How did you store these so they don't rust? Do you just cover in WD40? or Oil? How about the aluminum, any issue with oxidation after cleaning?
Sorry to hear about the crack, but it sounds like you're on the right track.
Head gasket material? You mean the coating on the MLS gasket? Should come right off with hot water and your degreaser. Or do you mean the silicone gaskets? Acetone/paint thinner work best there. Razor blade if you are very skilled (otherwise you can slice right through the aluminum).
Something with larger stiff plastic bristles, hot water.
I've used as much as 50% simple green, but with that high a concentration you MUST rinse thoroughly very soon after, followed by tons of dry compressed air. You can also use an engine degreaser provided it is also rinsed thoroughly as well, but I don't like the smell and it is pretty toxic. Unless your parts are already clean, you should collect the water and dispose of it properly.
My parts are stored in a very clean tool cabinet with some paper towels and newspaper to absorb moisture. I save the final cleaning until final assembly so most of the parts are still covered in a film of oil from when they were removed.
i'll bet that the JE's specs are for castiron cylinder's.
As you know, aluminium has bigger thermal expansionrate.
Allso these nicasil cyliders have less friction = less heat on the rings??
The answer to my earlier question is...
End gap should be very close to the JE specs, .015 for top, .016 for 2nd and same as above for oil.
And flat topped pistons are the latest version, as they apparently continually revise the design.
Thanks Charles!
Porsche doesn't have a 2001 3.6 with nickie's cylinders, JE pistons, 99mm bore, triple row ceramic IMS bearing, 160 degree T/stat & billet magnetic drain plug.
But they do have a big core charge.
+1, this is a MUCH better deal than the Porsche option considering the extra displacement and Nikasil cylinders. You are basically getting a Jake Raby trained veteran engine builder Flat6 innovations motor (minus the F6I stamp)... personally, if I didn't like wrenching so much, and had the timing worked out, I probably would have bought this one myself. I'm surprised it hasn't sold yet. Anyone who has to pay the Porsche tax on a new engine or is looking for an upgrade should snap this one up without hesitation.
I understand, so how much exactly Porsche is charging for their stuff ?
Last time I heard it was $16k for the engine, and they would give you back something like $5k if your old engine was rebuildable, no ?
I have to admit a custom rebuild with those attribute at the same price sounds like a deal... for the poor owner who have to foot the bill.
A replacement 3.4L engine from Porsche will currently set you back $15.7k discounted (18.4k retail, 17.4k core).
I've heard/read of many "gratis" offerings from the Dr. where they meet or credit some portion of that cost, depending on the situation. Others/most are not so lucky.
Still though, for someone looking for an upgrade (think of this puppy in a 986) or just an unlucky 1999-2001 996 owner who needs an engine, I can think of no better option (even if Porsche provides a credit, the materials in the rebuilt engine he is offering are far more desirable than stock).
In the UK, autofarm advertises they can go to 3.7 from a 3.4 case.
I'm not sure if LNE could do the same on a one off basis or if they only go to 3.6 from a 3.4 case.
At 3.6 liters the engine maintains solid integrity. Through my development we learned that bigger is not better and 3.6 liters is all the OE 3.4 head casting can support without a loss of RPM range.
BTW- Its not a "Flat 6 Innovations Engine" unless it has our serial number~
Do you have the AFR from that run as well? Was this with stock intake and exhaust, no other mods (or assuming you've done the complimentary mods to the 986 that go with the 996 conversion)?
I see the run was dynojet STD, which I believe means a 2.6% gain over dynojet SAE.
If so, the numbers are almost identical with my 3.6L upgrade, I measured 264 rwhp on dynojet SAE, with the 2.6% bump on dynoject STD would make mine 271 rwhp, and might also make sense since I have the fabspeed headers and 3.6L mufflers (if they are in fact contributing ~5 more rwhp).
My torque numbers were slightly lower SAE, and with a 2.6% bump to equal the STD numbers you have that computes to max torque of about 231 peak, or 10 less. But the curve looked similar and wonderfully flat !!!!!!
So much punch in just about any gear once you are above 3k RPM.
You can't go wrong with this engine !!!!
They didn't check AFR but it's all original on the intake side with headers, bypass pipes & oem muffler. No ECU changes yet. Yeah love the torque! So much more relaxing to drive when you can pass easily without downshifting from 6th!
I understood that Jake Raby offer a 3.2 to 3.8 kit since about a year !
(From (OE) 93mm diameter going to 101mm), keeping the same stroke (78mm).
If you change crank to increase stroke from (OE) 78mm into 83.2, ..than you are at 4 liters !
I contacted LNE about doing just this sort of thing shortly after I bought a '99 C4 cab. It still seems like a good idea for the more risk averse crowd. What would a '99 M96.1 engine, 10/98 build date, with only 32K miles on the clock be worth?
By the way, did anyone buy the engine you listed above?
3.4's have the thinnest, weakest cylinders so a low mileage engine like yours should be worth $ 10,K
When I rebuilt that engine right after I rebuilt mine the same way nobody would spend the kind of money it takes to do It right so I have just keep it in my garage waiting for the time when they are more in demand.
This seems like a real bargain to me. Especially now that shipping is gratis. If you don't like the IMS fix, then install the IMS Solution before you install the motor. I'd be all over this if I were in the market for an engine rebuild. All the bases appear to be covered.
Good luck with the sale!
It amazes me that it's not sold by now. There have been so many blown motors these past few years and this would have been a great buy for someone. If it where a .2, I'd buy it!
I think people are reluctant to buy rebuilt engines from a private person. Especially since warranties are only good as the company standing behind it and if things go sideways, things can turn ugly really fast. Someone to fork out $15K without any safety net can be a deterrent to a buyer. Byprodriver's works looks top notch so my comments are not directed at him but are meant to be in general. If I was him, I would buy a roller and put the rebuilt engine in it, drive it for a bit to make sure all is well and then sell the whole thing. Then again, maybe financially this would make even less sense than selling the rebuilt engine without a car.
The engine has the LN Triple row IMSB which was the best but labor intensive for LN & & required the IMS be sent to LN. Same IMSB as I have had in my car since I rebuilt it's OE engine.
This was my original plan in 2012 when I finished the 2nd engine. Naturally I shopped around the engine while looking for a roller & had no luck for either.
So I decided to store it until values increased so I could at least break even.
And then Porsche started selling shotblocks for under $8K.
Your engine in a Boxter S would be an excellent performance combination. Mid engine and with the engine in the proper spot.
2 different engine designs, many parts are incompatible. Porsche engines need more low rpm power & increasing displacement solves that & weak cylinder issues with LN Engineering billet alloy cylinders.
I'm looking at a Boxster that appears to have this 3.6 longblock in it. Would love to confirm a few details about the sale and storage if you have a minute. Could you send me a PM? Thanks!
