Feedback on 996 with relatively high mileage

Hello Everyone, I'm a long time lurker, now member. I've always liked the 996 and feel that it represents a good value in terms of looks, performance and pedigree. I am curious to see if any current 996 owners/experts would be able to provide me with any feedback on a local car (to me at least)? Here is the link: 996 MK1 2001 The car has some cosmetic issues. Among them a cracked/scratched front bumper, some wear on shift ****, missing/destroyed cup holders, curbed wheels and is in need of a paint restoration/buff. I called LN engineering and they have no record of the IMS having been replaced. It's a 1 owner car with some service history. Since I'm not a mechanic I am looking to have PPI done. My goal is to use it as a daily commuter and maintain it until it completely falls apart. If I could get 20k miles out of it I would be happy. If anyone could provide me with their initial thoughts I would be most grateful. Thank you and have a lovely day, Bringebaer

What's your budget? I think you can get a nicer, lower mileage example with service records for $18-$22K. IMO worth spending a little more up front.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, it seems you can get a pretty pristine example for 18-20k, but living in the city I would just hate to come back to my car dinged/scratched up. This one is a bit scruffy so I wouldn't feel so bad (if that makes sense). It also has some desirable options like the painted center console and what I believe are the sports seats (I don't like the ruffled leather seats). My impression from reading a lot of threads is that one possible factor to the IMS bearing going bad could be a lack of use resulting in the lubrication inside the bearing going rancid (you all know much more about this than me). My research shows that the retail price is roughly in line with KBB/Edmunds values, but that the selling price of similar cars from a retailer should be in the 11-13k range (which is what I would aim for). Thank you again.

Seems a fair price for a fair car that needs a little TLC. But, it's a tiptronic so it's not as desirable for most who are into these cars. As a 2001 model, it most likely has the single row bearing... but at that mileage if it hasn't already been an issue, one has to wonder if it ever will be??? Still, there are two cars in my area that are manual tranny, with under 100k miles available for less. And one even has had IMS, RMS, clutch and mounts swapped already. IMHO, that's a $13k car all day long. You can do better.

that car for 11k doesn't seem bad. It needs engine mounts (saggy exhaust tips) & the cosmetic issues you noted should help negotiate.

Couple notes about the car: its listed as an auto but its a 6 speed (which is a worth more) but makes me wonder what else is incorrect about the listing. Tires look to be in good shape, it has a painted center console which is a plus. It looks like exhaust is sagging which could (probably/definitely) means you need to replace the rear engine mounts, but thats a relatively easy DIY job that will cost between $120-350 in parts depending on if you go aftermarket or genuine Porsche. Some notes in general. There are a few things I've read on the forums that ring true: 1. "There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche" and 2. "Cars are machines designed to fail". Eventually everything wears out and breaks - it comes down to where on that curve you buy the car. High mileage cars aren't necessarily bad. For example, you may be buying a higher mileage Porsche that has recently had the clutch, RMS, etc replaced. In that case, its a better deal than one that has those original parts and will need to have them replaced almost immediately after you buy it. So, I guess what I'm trying to articulate is that a higher mileage, well maintained car can be a better deal than a lower mileage well maintained car if its just been gone through and some key wear parts have been replaced... and its definitely a better deal than a low mileage neglected car.

Thank you all for the quick and very helpful replies. Especially your notes about the sagging exhaust (it has the x54 stainless tips options according to the option sticker). The option sticker also notes the interior as "AD" which according to my research should indicate a black interior. However, Porsche NA also confirmed that the build spec had a grey interior. Coupled with the 249 code (which could be z49, hard to tell) makes me wonder. Regardless, not a big deal to me as long as it is not related to the soundness of the mechanicals. For the benefit of others, what tipped you off on the exhaust tips/bad engine mounts ? The distance from the bumper cut out to the exhaust tips? Charlieaf92: That was my thought process as well. High mileage, but maintained. Hopefully some of the more expensive wear and tear items have been covered (see attached carfax with service history) so I can have a relatively smooth ride for a year or so until the rug is inevitably swept from underneath my feet. The next service interval is in the 140k range from what I've read up on. Will a leakdown/compression test be able to indicate impending d-chunk, ovaling or AOS issues? CARFAX Report Thank you very much once again!

What is it specifically about that car that interests you? '01, 115k miles, $15k https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6044288613.html '99, 140k miles, $13k (IMS/clutch done) https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6021287668.html etc... These are not rare cars.

VitaminC, This car is in the City, so it is easier for me to go look at it. It is also at a dealership which makes things a bit cleaner with regards to settlement etc. In addition, it has the litronics headlights (makes a huge difference in my personal opinion). Also, there aren't any apparent modifications (wheels, stereo etc) that I would have to remedy.

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I have different exhaust tips - so this may not translate exactly.... but after replacing my engine mount the highest point on the exhaust tip was 3/4" from the bumper directly above it. Cheers Charlie

That's a great shift ****. Pretty expensive part from Carnewal.

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Check out the car very thoroughly. It was offered for sale back in Nov. 2016. See link: http://www.getauto.com/2001/porsche/...ails_161926347 Date of listing is given at bottom of vehicle details block.

Wow, all great advice. Live and learn as they say. Macster, good point. It was however listed for $17,999 and even more for the longest time. I believe that might help explain why it has been sitting for so long. As a result it fell in a weird bracket of cars with much lower mileage and that were in better cosmetic condition.

Looks to me as a reasonable car! Make sure you got 3k$ left for some additional repairs if necessary. Some repairs were done last year but probably it would need a good maintenance done. If you can have a good PPI done you will have a reasonable idea what you are getting into. Then go and drive & enjoy. Don't worry about IMS, RMS, sagging exhausts (who cares!) and all that stuff. This is not a pristine car, it is not what you are looking for and it would be a waste of money if you try to get close to that. Just my 2c.

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Have you seen it in person and/or driven it yet? If possible, you should drive a few different 996's so you can get a feel for them. That's potentially a lot of money for 20k miles of use.

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That 99 looks and has the same price and mileage as a car I did a ppi on last year. If that's the same car I would make sure to do a ppi as it had a lot wrong with it.

I agree that it looks like decent car at a fair price. A good daily beater. Because it has the second generation IMSB I would consider replacing that and do the motor mounts while you are at it. When/if you decide to address any cosmetics is not an issue. The biggest danger is that as you start to drive it, you might fall in love with it. Even if you threw some money at it, you would have trouble finding a better car for the same cost. I've seen some real ugly examples with higher asking prices. And the fact that a BMW dealer kept it for resale indicates two possibilities. 1. They over paid for it so as to make a sale on a BMW....and now they just want to cut their losses and get their money out of it. 2. They paid a fair price for the car, thought it was a good car and worth putting in their showroom next to their other cars, and have now dropped the price down to near a break even point. I think the car fax speaks well of the first owner. Good luck with whatever you decide.

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​​​​​​I've seen it in person. Other than some cosmetic problems (bumper, cup holders broken, radio button tacky, slight abrasion tp rear seat leather etc) it looks alright. Just trying to be realistic​. If the gearbox or engine grenades due to unforseen circumstances after 20k miles I would be happy.

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This is a very fair point. Many reasonable cars out there. Check out a few before you pull the trigger. Fun to do as well!

go drive it . having driven several, you can tell the better engines

Thank you for all the good hints and feedback. I've scheduled a PPI, so it will be exciting to see what comes out of that. P.S. One shop quoted me $790 for a PPI. Settled for another shop that also specializes in Porsches for $250. Thanks!

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Whats included in the PPI? If possible get them to pull filter and check for metal. Bores should be checked, other common faults like ignition switch, AOS (pull the oil filler cap to see if there is lots of pressure), brakes, check for wear, easy to miss as insides wear first and engine mounts. My car is 80K mile equivalent, all the bores are oval, two are scored but on the plus side IMS is great!!! I bought a cheap one. I'm probably into $15-20k for the engine rebuild!! So be careful out there.

Yeah, I asked for the filter to be inspected for metal shavings. Sorry to hear about your problems. Ovaling, d-chunk and all that other mess is scary.

^ honestly d-chunk, other issues, will happen with any car (not the same issues), but they all will and have issues. The price to fix is higher in a Porsche. If a 15k engine rebuild will bankrupt you or put you into another very bad spot (buy another car to drive when it's being fixed, or something) then maybe it isn't the best idea. I've owned a Porsche with as little as 38k miles and as high as 170k honestly they've all been good cars. The 38k CTT I owned was a 1 owner that was very clean and looked new, but it was the most costly to own just due to having the recommend stuff coming up sooner than later. Much better than a BMW I had a MINI I had. A ton better than two Jeep's I leased (by the lease end they both needed a pretty penny, 30k mostly highway mileage they both had warped rotors and used pads, 1 had gear slipping issues, etc) now they're all very different cars, but I've been happy with Porsche's. Parts and service is a lot more than the others, but they've been easy to work on for basic stuff (oil, filters, spark plugs, brakes, coolant etc) actually easier than some of the others. Porsche has been highest or at least ranked in top 10 for best initial quality for a number of years. 15-20 years later this shows.

Guy out here in RMR is selling a nice looking 2002 (3.6) C4 Cab 81K on the clock & IMS was done... $18K. I kind of think it's a steal.

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This is going to suck to hear, but...the $790 PPI would likely find the things that a $250 PPI won't. There is a reason the price for a useful PPI for a 996 is going up (for places that will still DO PPI's)... If the to-do lists were identical and the only difference was the price, though...nice!

True. The $790 did include certain procedures that are probably way more time consuming. That being said the cheaper PPI revealed quite a few things: 1. Both sides of valve cover leaking ($1600) 2. Engine and transmission mounts needed replacement 3. Drivetrain clunk between 1st and 2nd gear. 4. Tie-rod needs replacement 5. Radiator seepage 6. SRS Airbag code 7. Oil temp sensor code 8. Handful of codes related to the central locking system 9. Passenger window will not automatically go down and up when you open and close the door. Causing the glass to hit the side molding (not flush). Assume a new window regulator. 10. Passenger seat will not tilt up and down 11. Remote lock/unlock not working Plus various small issues like bulbs being burnt out, bad struts, cracked rear lenses etc. I was willing to discuss the price but was firmly shut down by the seller. Oh well

$ 10,000 996

I think a price around $10,000 give or take would make more sense. If the seller/dealer chooses to remedy the problems they will not realistically be able to charge more than the current asking price. Tricking someone into overpaying doesn't sound too clever in the long run either Funny thing is the valve cover gasket (RTV) was supposedly replaced less than 200 miles ago by the seller. PPI mechanic stated that was not the case at all, which makes you wonder.

If you don't mind me piling on, I agree with the earlier post that there are a lot of these 996s around and you should be able to find one with less issues in the high teens price wise. My 2000 MY Carrera with 75K has had only a handful of the issues your PPI uncovered so maybe you should keep shopping and try to be patient.

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To be honest you will fall in love with the car and never let it completely fall apart. Lets face it we are talking about your first Porsche not a Honda civic. I purchased a '04 C4S with 65K miles. Unless the car gets totaled I plan on giving it to my son as a college graduation present in 9 years. My personal opinion is buy the best 911 you can afford that leaves you room to keep it properly maintained and 20K miles will not be a stopping point. Also, as many other post have pointed out it looks like the 996s have bottomed out and will only appreciate from here.

So in the end it turns out the strength of your PPI disqualified you as a buyer as soon as it became a negotiation tool... The seller is basically looking for an idiot buyer. That's a pretty big list that I guess would take a good $5k to sort. Even more if a new immobilizer is needed for the central locking issues. And you can believe there will be more issues that show up once repairs get under way... +1 on finding another 996, walk away

There is an old saying, buy the newest, nicest Porsche you can afford. Spend an extra couple of k to get a well maintained 911 and you'll be more happy than one you buy and have in the shop the next day (unless you are doing some sort of build and expect it, that is different). I do not believe in the newest Porsche part of the saying, but for sure the nicest. If you look at how a person keeps a car cosmetically (shown in photos, so you don't waste time on crap, same thing goes for peoples yard and exterior...**** on the outside, **** on the inside), the mechanical's are probably good too (big assumption, hence the PPI).

my 2000 C4 has 140k on the clock and has none of the issues you describe........... keep looking. Also on a PPI, high mileage car especially, I would want the oil pan plate pulled and inspected for debris.

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Keep shopping. This is a car that has NOT been maintained.

I'd throw $10-11k at this; https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6021287668.html and put $4k aside for glitches that come up. If you need your reserve, it's there. If not needed - bam, drive, enjoy. IMS done, looks to be taken care of fairly well. There's all different kinds of buyers, for all different level of cars. Most folks don't wrench on their cars, and they should look for the best condition, and most up-to-date cars at the higher prices. But - there is a market for the down-n-dirty cars. The cars with a long list of gewgaws that aren't working right, and needs about 2 weeks of time, and maybe $1000 of materials to make right. The trick is, to not pay top dollar for the lowdown cars. I'm a bottom feeder, and don't mind saying it at all. I lucked out this time around, and got a pretty nice car for bottom feeder price. What kills, is when people pay top dollar($15k) for a rough car. The advice to find the best one you can seems obvious, but pointing out that rough cars gotta sell too. From the pics, this one needs mounts too, and the lights need a polish which tells me it's been an 'outside' car plenty(not a surprise, given the cost of garages in SF). May need other light work, but that's what the reserve is for. Plenty of good indy shops around bay area and south to give you service options. I would stay far away from any dealer on the 996.

once again, drive a couple. the good ones jump out, as do the bad ones. I dont care about history, PPIs, none of that. drive the car

Buy the best 996 you possibly can, newest lowest mileage with the budget you have. All these "cheap" 996 are in fact not cheap at all. They tend to need a lot of maintenance and new parts and if you aren't doing all the labor yourself you will be well above $4,000 in the blink of an eye. High mileage 996? Well if it doesn't have a fairly new suspension installed it will need one. That suspension refresh alone will cost at least $4,000. And that's just ONE item. Water pump, AOS, ? The list goes on and on. Buy the best condition 996 you can possibly afford. If you do end up going with a "cheap" 996 be absolutely certain you have $5,000 in cash ready to put into that vehicle with no hesitation or regrets whatsoever. There is nothing cheap about owning ANY 911, you either pay up front or you pay during the first 18 months of ownership.

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A craigslist ad is never as what it seems. Another member mentioned here that he did a PPI on the car, and it came up with lot's of problems.

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Stan please let me know more about this I was going to go see it tomorrow. as far as the BMW dealership 911 is concerned, I actually drove it, it drives amazing despite the mileage and if I remember correctly it's a one owner car the guy traded it after all these years for a BMW. I did hear the rattle at low RPM, the salesperson refused to comment on it haha. I also tried to negotiate and they wouldn't bulge stating that they could get just as much trading it to a Porsche dealer who would flip it for more ...

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Hehe, love the salesman BS. Meanwhile it has been sitting on their lot taking up space and time for close to half a year

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yeah, the San Francisco BMW sales manager said that BMW mechanics are trained to detect IMS failues before they happen and that this one didn't have any symptoms ........

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Thank you for quoting my entire post. Particularly the parts where I said to set aside $4k for followup issues, and that I'm the bottom feeder who wrote "I WOULD throw $10-11k...." That's me, not you, not the OP, not Joe Bagodonuts. So, if I were to buy the car for $11k, then spend $2k on catch-up mx, I would be into a 140k mile car, now with updated mx for ~$13k, including an IMS. Of course, if the car needed a whole new engine, that would alter the math, but 'lots of problem' don't equate to a $10k bill. I just completed my 90k major service. If I were to send it to an indy to do, the bill would have been over $3k. I did all that was needed except the front trans mount for about $700 in materials. Water pump, serp belt, all fluids except AC, motor mounts, key switch, Y cable, filters, oil change, etc. This car already has an LN IMS change, so that's gotta be worth something. Anyway, I said there are all kinds of buyers. I'm not like the OP, but so far my method works ok. I have the time to spend, and I have a source of reasonable parts, so that's the way I do it. The OP should not follow my method.

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I buy/sell a lot of cars and motorcycles. My point is, you can NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER take a CL ad at face value. Especially an ad with just a few sentences. Your blanketed claim about, "oh just buy this and this" (based on a crappy CL ad) has really little value on educating potential buyers about what they can be getting themselves into.

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My only advice to you is that a 15K 911 is just that. A 15K 911.

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I bought my $16k 996 of a crappy CL ad(what makes it crappy?), and it's a nice car. Only thing it needed when I bought it was rad cleaning. I've bought a lot of cars too, if you want to start comparing lists. But - if you have further info(as you alluded), I'm all ears.

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A 'crappy ad' is one that is short, and non-detailed. This is a 911, not a Honda civic. Nothing can be assumed. How about detailing any current issues with the car, Any codes thrown, options code list, shape of tires/brakes/consumables? When I read a short non descriptive ad, my experience says the seller is hiding something. IMO, i'm usually right. Not saying there aren't any under priced gems out there, but they are far and few.

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Right....Porsche dealers just shuffle these cars to auction as quick as they can. They have no interest in reselling 17 year old cars....particularly with the..ahem...peculiarities of this series.

I purchased a 99 with 116k So far: AOS $900 Water Pump $800 Spark Plugs/Tubes $300 Did Motor mounts DIY $140 You do need to budget for repairs but it's well worth it. The 996 is the ugly stepchild....but still a Porsche

I was in your boat a few months ago. My budget was around $16k but after looking for a couple of months I decided to up my budget a bit to $20k. I was able to find my 2002 cabriolet with less than 60k miles on it. I would keep looking, even if you have to travel a bit to find it!! PS - Your WAY better off going private party if you can. Many dealers buy the cars at auction and its usually the ones with black eyes.

I agree with drive a bunch of them, so you'll know something one way or the other. Ragged cars give themselves away pretty quickly on a drive. I bought a '99 with over 100k on it without a PPI or a shred of history other than verbal. Well, there was a Blackstone analysis that was 2 yrs old, but that was it. Said he "briefly gave in to the paranoia". Nice home, nice garage, nice guy -he had it for 8 years, garaged/covered along with 3-4 other real nice cars. I drove it and bought it, it's been great. I got it to use mostly daily, and I have, it's been fantastic. It made the weekly one hour drive to the cancer clinic at Vanderbilt a whole lot more fun. I've been cancer free for two years, and the 911 is still going strong!

Just my 2 cents but for that price with 133k miles I'd expect excellent paint with minor if any imperfections anywhere in or out. As you describe it I'd say $12k would be more like it.