Current market - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I’m I the market again for a 991 gen car. Looking at the trade values vs price advertising for private sales they are all trade plus 10k. Seem to be dreaming to me. Even some of the non OPC are 12-15k over current trade. Is everyone is denial or are the likes of WBAC way off?

WBAC and book prices never match the selling prices, in all the years I have looked

WBAC are basing figures on what they have actually sold this week. Their data updates daily. Sellers are basing the prices on what they paid for the car, some weeks or even months ago looking at the cars available, or what they need to get back to clear finance or not make a loss. Many 991s were overpriced 3 months back, so no wonder they are still for sale.

Prices are tanking, wait 6 months and save at least 10% imho

£10k margin is nothing when you have a shiny showroom and GMs wages to pay. What you expecting a couple of grand like a ford fiesta ?

Im also on the lookout for a gen 1 991. Everything im reading is saying hold of until the end of this year , start of next at the earliest. Unless a bargain crops up, which i doubt it. Private asking prices are mostly ott as you say, though i nearly got one last week £1k over the motorway trade price with a years opc warranty left. Someone beat me to it by a matter of hours. Dealer prices are a mile of motorway trade prices but i dont know how accurate motorway are. Wbac are a mile back from motorway prices. Im tempted to up the budget to a 991.1 gts, which should hold its money more than say an S or base, i priced a gts last night with motorway and they were at £58k , private seller looking £73000.

bosshog said: I’m I the market again for a 991 gen car. Looking at the trade values vs price advertising for private sales they are all trade plus 10k. Seem to be dreaming to me. Even some of the non OPC are 12-15k over current trade. Is everyone is denial or are the likes of WBAC way off? 10k margin on a early 991 is normal

I think cars are just sticking around and not selling, then the price drops on a car and it gets sold and all the others just stick around. E.g as a seller, your long would you hold onto a car? This has been up for sale since January: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023013137...

Sukh13 said: I think cars are just sticking around and not selling, then the price drops on a car and it gets sold and all the others just stick around. E.g as a seller, your long would you hold onto a car? This has been up for sale since January: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023013137... That is a particularly poor one though. Enlarge this pic.. https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w1024h768/f9255c8319... ...scuffs all over the place. Fair play for it not being a garage queen but for the next owner who wants to inherit all those marks inside?

Nuttbelle said: £10k margin is nothing when you have a shiny showroom and GMs wages to pay. What you expecting a couple of grand like a ford fiesta ? I’m talking private sellers prices not dealers….

bosshog said: Nuttbelle said: £10k margin is nothing when you have a shiny showroom and GMs wages to pay. What you expecting a couple of grand like a ford fiesta ? I’m talking private sellers prices not dealers…. A lot of private sellers price cars higher than some dealers, slowly starting to see a higher number of private sellers now as dealers are less inclined to buy due to sales slowing .

julian987R said: That is a particularly poor one though. Enlarge this pic.. https://m.atcdn.co.uk/a/media/w1024h768/f9255c8319... ...scuffs all over the place. Fair play for it not being a garage queen but for the next owner who wants to inherit all those marks inside? Agreed, yet the price is still quite high and has been sitting there nine months and counting. When does winter hit and prices soften...?

Sukh13 said: When does winter hit and prices soften...? Nothing to do with winter. All to do with increasing interest rates, houses will start dropping and if people start losing jobs it will get uglier.

Q1 2024 - drawers will need to be making sales .

Im asking people on here with more knowledge than i have regarding pricing trends. If you were to buy a £50,000 991.1 s or a £70,000 991.1 gts, given both cars were good spec, colour, miles, history etc are they most likely to depreciate at the same rate pro rata. Would a decent shout be in 3 years time the S is worth £40k and the gts £60k ?

CK11 said: Im asking people on here with more knowledge than i have regarding pricing trends. If you were to buy a £50,000 991.1 s or a £70,000 991.1 gts, given both cars were good spec, colour, miles, history etc are they most likely to depreciate at the same rate pro rata. Would a decent shout be in 3 years time the S is worth £40k and the gts £60k ? Spec is very important. Manual cars will hold their value better as they have done for the last seven or eight years, I would say in % terms the GTS will hold its value better. On a GTS having the GTS interior package which help the car hold its value. Something like PCCB’s might make a car more expensive when you buy it but I don’t think you’d get a penny of that premium back come trade in time. Personally I wouldn’t want PCCB’s on either of those cars.

The 997 GTS seems to have held its value better than an S to my eye when I’ve looked at their prices. A bit of a clue perhaps?

Both cars pdk, no pccb Etc

CK11 said: Im asking people on here with more knowledge than i have regarding pricing trends. If you were to buy a £50,000 991.1 s or a £70,000 991.1 gts, given both cars were good spec, colour, miles, history etc are they most likely to depreciate at the same rate pro rata. Would a decent shout be in 3 years time the S is worth £40k and the gts £60k ? I think both will be much less with the direction of travel. The second hand market is so overpriced. Prices are only just getting to where they were at the start of Covid. So they are still 4 years worth over priced and need to drop much further.

Cheib said: CK11 said: Im asking people on here with more knowledge than i have regarding pricing trends. If you were to buy a £50,000 991.1 s or a £70,000 991.1 gts, given both cars were good spec, colour, miles, history etc are they most likely to depreciate at the same rate pro rata. Would a decent shout be in 3 years time the S is worth £40k and the gts £60k ? Spec is very important. Manual cars will hold their value better as they have done for the last seven or eight years, I would say in % terms the GTS will hold its value better. On a GTS having the GTS interior package which help the car hold its value. Something like PCCB’s might make a car more expensive when you buy it but I don’t think you’d get a penny of that premium back come trade in time. Personally I wouldn’t want PCCB’s on either of those cars. But if in %age terms both lose 30% then you are losing 21 on the 70k car. I think from 70 to 60 is far too optimistic Even 50 to 40 is optimistic You need to think worst case and best case I think you have outlined absolute best case 70 to 49 feels more realistic to Me which is 30% 50 to 35 maybe - similar 30%

If buying for dealer you need to immediately bake in what you have lost when you drive the car away - they need to make a profit. If depreciation is a key factor, buying from a dealer like Ashgood will help as they are high volume and don't get greedy on what they try to make on each car. Alternatively, buying a private car that has official Porsche warranty on it is always a great way to go, the warranty is transferred to you giving peace of mind.

n12maser said: If buying for dealer you need to immediately bake in what you have lost when you drive the car away - they need to make a profit. If depreciation is a key factor, buying from a dealer like Ashgood will help as they are high volume and don't get greedy on what they try to make on each car. Alternatively, buying a private car that has official Porsche warranty on it is always a great way to go, the warranty is transferred to you giving peace of mind. Warranty is a great point But it is only up to 12 years old right? If so then when you come to sell bare this in mind. Early 991 cars are 2012. You might be paying a premium to get a warrantied car. But you wont be able to do the same when you sell. You can of course tell people it had warranty up to year x but then it will not.

Porsche warranty is up to15 years.

Getting itchy feet for either a 991.1 S or Gts, though i dont want to be spending £70k on say a 2015 gts to then run it, and the associated costs involved, to find its worth 20k less in 3 years and probably only covered about 10k miles. The sensible thing i guess is to hang on until the start of next year and see how things are evolving. The few i have enquired about are not budging much or need a few k spending on them straight away. These are all private sales. Hard to know when sellers will start dropping prices but they are obviously following the market which isnt exactly moving much from what i can see, at least in the cars im interested in. It would take some fall for a 70k gts 991.1 to be a 60k gts this tome next year, especially as £70k is already at the very lower price range for these, some with dealers are at 80-85k.

Is it really that far to fall? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2015-porsche-9... In November 2020 they were already at that price...

Sukh13 said: Is it really that far to fall? https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2015-porsche-9... In November 2020 they were already at that price... Plus the fees would bring it up to approx £66k 3 years ago.

Cool so three years ago it was worth 66k. This doesn't make it that shocking that a GTS could be worth 60k after winter.....

anonymous said: [redacted] There were some really good deals just before lock-down ... dealers reading the runes and liquidating paid-for inventory ...

CK11 said: £50,000 991.1 s £70,000 991.1 gts Would a decent shout be in 3 years time the S is worth £40k and the gts £60k ? Absolutely no chance! You will loose that by Xmas. 3 years time no one knows, but be realistic, they will then be nearly 15 year old cars. The reality is these cars are still seriously over priced compared with 2019. Buy a 991.1 Carrera now for as close to £40k as you can, even if it has a few miles on it already, put 30k miles on it and get £29k back on it. Hopefully. I think I would rather spend £65k on a low milage 991.2 Carrera T, I reckon more chance of that only losing £20-25k over 3 years and 30k miles. GTS might surprise everyone, being the last NA GTS and hold its money, but at the same time it could loose £30k as a trade in easily. What I do think will happen is we will see them dip far quicker than 3 years, probably by next year, and then lose very little before levelling out. Thing is if it loses £15-20k by next spring, don't panic. The days of driving 'the last model' 911 for 3 years and only losing £10k was a rarity, and that is now over.

CK11 said: It would take some fall for a 70k gts 991.1 to be a 60k gts this tome next year, especially as £70k is already at the very lower price range for these, some with dealers are at 80-85k. Put those reg numbers into WBAC today and see what that £85k car is trading at. Dealers are sat on stock they have paid too much for.

What would the PH hive mind do if say someone was in the market for a 997 Turbo manual, had the money available and a space in the garage? Not many around right now, those that are all have nothing special about them to warrant jumping into it, but asking prices remain absolutely firm. I don't (or rather don't want to) have the patience to stick the money in the bank and come back after Xmas, even though logic suggests prices are going to fall. Are some of the older Pork more immune to market forces? I sold my last one for £57k back in 2021, paying more than that now feels a bit incongruous with where the current market is looking to be headed.

It will be interesting to revisit this in 6 -9 months. I personally dont think there will be as big as drops that some people are predicting. I think the 991.1 will be a future classic to be honest, last NA etc. it will depreciate of course but not to the extent mentioned. As much as id love one now, I think i will wait it out anyway until i can see some sort of trend and then make a decision.

CK11 said: It will be interesting to revisit this in 6 -9 months. I personally dont think there will be as big as drops that some people are predicting. I think the 991.1 will be a future classic to be honest, last NA etc. it will depreciate of course but not to the extent mentioned. As much as id love one now, I think i will wait it out anyway until i can see some sort of trend and then make a decision. Problem is every model is hailed as a future classic, how many can there be and how many people to buy them?

Simply answer is put the reg of the car you are currently interested in into WBAC, if todays value between the retail price and trade price isn’t a shock factor in another 20% for the next two years and that’s probably your future value. Just remember a lot of cars are currently over valued and sticking . Just be prepared to loose something.

CK11 said: It will be interesting to revisit this in 6 -9 months. I personally dont think there will be as big as drops that some people are predicting. I think the 991.1 will be a future classic to be honest, last NA etc. it will depreciate of course but not to the extent mentioned. As much as id love one now, I think i will wait it out anyway until i can see some sort of trend and then make a decision. 991's could be had for a bit under £40k before Covid, talking Carrera and Carrera 4 coupes here, they are now starting to get back to those prices again for the first time, albeit with higher mileages, but if Covid had not happened they would now be £30-35k. The one thing that has helped prices remain high is the fact a 992 Carrera has gone from being £80k with a bit of discount to now being £100k. Not having that £80k 992 on used with an OPC at 3 years old for £60k is skewing the used prices of 991s, and everything else for that matter. We are still seeing 991s with OPCs at that price point. But we are already seeing prices coming down, slowly, and that will have a knock on. Not having to wait 2 years, no one paying overs, will have a huge effect on prices, but the reality is, it is only really just starting, and many out there have stock that owes them £xxx, and so they can't just say, well it is now worth £10-20k less, let's just take a hit on all our stock to get them moved. They will go bust. The only true reality we have on what these cars are really worth is what a dealer will pay you now, they are now pricing them to buy in where they truly see the market today and going forwards. Mate who trades bought a base 991, 2012, with PASM but no PSE and 76k miles for £35k this week. He knew wheels needed doing, but also service is October so it is in having that done and they have given it a once over and said it needs a couple of suspension arms, new rear tyres and front top mounts. So he has gone from thinking this was a huge bargain when he agreed to buy it last month to now wondering if there is any profit in it. He said being realistic it is now a £40k car, not £45k like last month, if you want it to actually sell. He said just seeing that red 991 Carrera advertised at £37,500 on Autotrader with 79k miles on it will start to change people's perception of what 991's should be price wise. He is desperate for that car to get sold asap. Also, like he said, his 991 it is going to appeal to cash buyers or someone with at least £15-20k deposit so they can get a bank loan for £25k or finance with him for £25k as a straight repayment. If you put £15,000 down, even at 9.9% apr it is still a £650 a month car. Lenders not interested in PCP on a car that will hit 15 years old during the term. It is the last of the NA cars, it is also not as big as the 992, so you may be right, it might appeal to many for those reasons alone. Who knows? But I think they have a fair way to fail as yet before they start to go back up. When they hit £35k I will grab one, Carrera or S, don't care as long as it has PASM (I want the DSC controller) at that point who cares if they go to zero, great buy.

Ed.Neumann said: CK11 said: He said just seeing that red 991 Carrera advertised at £37,500 on Autotrader with 79k miles on it will start to change people's perception of what 991's should be price wise. He is desperate for that car to get sold asap. The real problem will be when it hasn't sold and we move into winter proper, then you know the market is in trouble!

Thought id hit the jackpot a couple of hours ago with a private seller 2018 gts at £62,500. Then read Cat S. quickly wiped the smile from my face...

The metallic blue one?

bosshog said: I’m I the market again for a 991 gen car. Looking at the trade values vs price advertising for private sales they are all trade plus 10k. Seem to be dreaming to me. Even some of the non OPC are 12-15k over current trade. Is everyone is denial or are the likes of WBAC way off? Looking at trade bids on other sites (e.g. Motorway, Carwow) Spreads are 15% to 20% So what would be a £60k retail (private sale) car might only get bids of around £50k

Sukh13 said: The metallic blue one? Yea

Have you asked to see the damage repaired? I was also looking at that one. Problem is it could drop like a stone if the market corrects...

Jefferson Steelflex said: What would the PH hive mind do if say someone was in the market for a 997 Turbo manual, had the money available and a space in the garage? Not many around right now, those that are all have nothing special about them to warrant jumping into it, but asking prices remain absolutely firm. I don't (or rather don't want to) have the patience to stick the money in the bank and come back after Xmas, even though logic suggests prices are going to fall. Are some of the older Pork more immune to market forces? I sold my last one for £57k back in 2021, paying more than that now feels a bit incongruous with where the current market is looking to be headed. I think i would just keep looking and if one comes up in a spec/condition that appealed to you then buy it. If nothing takes your fancy there is no harm in waiting. I only buy cars that I am happy keeping for a while and not to buy to use for a short period and hope to sell on at a similar price. People have been calling down the market for years that possibly want prices to come down (Brexit/Covid etc..). But you could end up waiting forever.

PaulJC84 said: People have been calling down the market for years that possibly want prices to come down (Brexit/Covid etc..). But you could end up waiting forever. I think most are simply not happy to pay considerably more for a car today than that same car was 4 years ago when it also had 30k less miles less on it. But there must come a point where you just want to have that car, so what if it falls further, cars depreciate? Jesus, people are loosing £20,000 on a base Tesla over 2 years and here we are not wanting to lose that on a £70k Porsche over three years. I just think be realistic. The silly period is over. I say go for it, but don't expect a £70k 991 to be worth £60k in 3 years time.

Sukh13 said: Have you asked to see the damage repaired? I was also looking at that one. Problem is it could drop like a stone if the market corrects... I havent no. Not sure im brave enough for a cat s 911 tbh. Unless it was an absolute steal.

I just ran that £62,500 2018 Cat s Gts through wbac out of interest. It was coming back at £35k ! Motorway wouldnt bid, i take it they dont value anything cat Autotrader have similar 2017/18 NON CAT gts starting at £80k up to about £90k Motorway seem to value those around £72k. So basically its about 10k under non cat motorway prices. No idea if thats about right or not. Prices all over the place.

It feels like we the supply of 992 has increased, as the Cat car ages out, it will drop faster than other cars as it will become an outlier in a larger pool of cars.

CK11 said: I just ran that £62,500 2018 Cat s Gts through wbac out of interest. It was coming back at £35k ! Motorway wouldnt bid, i take it they dont value anything cat Autotrader have similar 2017/18 NON CAT gts starting at £80k up to about £90k Motorway seem to value those around £72k. So basically its about 10k under non cat motorway prices. No idea if thats about right or not. Prices all over the place. Very few people will buy a damaged repaired car, they have very little value in the real world and very difficult to move on. Find a straight on

GT4RS said: Very few people will buy a damaged repaired car, they have very little value in the real world and very difficult to move on. Find a straight on Agreed, trade on a Cat S is 50-65% of non cat car.

PaulJC84 said: People have been calling down the market for years that possibly want prices to come down (Brexit/Covid etc..). But you could end up waiting forever. Yes but now is different..... Interest rates rising and that is a first for like 20 years So if you don't understand why this is significant I'm not sure what to say

The seller of the gts apparently turned down a £55k bid from a trader earlier today. His prerogative i guess.

Did you get any details of the damage?

Ed.Neumann said: I just think be realistic. The silly period is over. I say go for it, but don't expect a £70k 991 to be worth £60k in 3 years time. 991 prices, in time, will drop lower than 997's.

parts replaced - PS 1/4 panel , door, wing , headlamp , Ft bumper the DS 1/4 panel was repaired. Because the 1/4 panel was a weld on part made it a cat S the rest of the parts were bolt on. From my understanding there would be no future porsche warranty allowed on it either, could be wrong on that though As others have mentioned, v prob best avoided unless you plan to keep for about 10 years

Cheers. Think the price is too rich for that amount of damage and getting precluded from Porsche warranty

He might regret turning down that offer, if real, but does show a trader thinks he can turn a profit on it. Just a shame its so hard to sell on a cat s car privately and the trade dont offer, or when they do offer, its such a difference in price. In that example wbac are 50% of trade price. All of a sudden a 2018 991.2 gts is £35k, that would quickly get you rethinking.

WBAC do not set prices for specialist cars - they are buying to put in an auction that the trade buy from, and make a fat profit….. I’ve just given £8k over what WBAC quoted on a 997, and will still turn decent profit .

anonymous said: [redacted] Out if interest in this particular example. So you hypothetically buy the cat s 2018 gts for £60k or You buy a non damaged 2018 gts, same miles etc for 80k at the current market rate. If Both cars drop at a similar rate that would make the cat s car a more astute financial buy surely, because of the 20k difference in starting price for the same car. Say In 5 years they have both dropped 50% The straight car is now 40k The cat s is £30k

CK11 said: parts replaced - PS 1/4 panel , door, wing , headlamp , Ft bumper the DS 1/4 panel was repaired. Because the 1/4 panel was a weld on part made it a cat S the rest of the parts were bolt on. It is my understanding that Cat S means structural. I dont know if welding on a panel is structural. My 981 was Cat S because some suspension parts were damaged. These are structural. Also I believe insurance quotes or assessments never look to pull or repair panels - they have to replace. This can make repair costs escalate quickly. The rear quarter was damaged - in the pic - and the Porsche approved repair quote had 1000 + vat just for the replacement panel and then add for fitting and paint etc. My repair estimate was a minimum of 17,500 + VAT.

CK11 said: The seller of the gts apparently turned down a £55k bid from a trader earlier today. His prerogative i guess. I would have done that deal - brave to turn down real money on a CAT S car

MC99 said: CK11 said: The seller of the gts apparently turned down a £55k bid from a trader earlier today. His prerogative i guess. I would have done that deal - brave to turn down real money on a CAT S car Indeed, £55k for a straight no hassle sale sounds about right for that.

Sukh13 said: If they aren't selling after a year on AT, at what point do dealers clear stock to make money selling different stock? A year for sale suggests they aren't priced right? Appreciate that older models appear to have found a floor, but a year on sale?! Having a car stuck for sale in stock for a year is not good business!

bennno said: av185 said: Prestige cars were seriously hit in the financial crisis of 2008/9. Was a mad time I brought a new vxr8 for £21k versus its £39k price with the one condition they'd pre reg it and I'd need to wait 12 months for the v5..... A mate did that with a car for me, they put it through the books as a demonstrator.

PRO5T said: bennno said: Was a mad time I brought a new vxr8 for £21k versus its £39k price with the one condition they'd pre reg it and I'd need to wait 12 months for the v5..... A mate did that with a car for me, they put it through the books as a demonstrator. What is the benefit/advantage/reason of this?

TDT said: PRO5T said: bennno said: Was a mad time I brought a new vxr8 for £21k versus its £39k price with the one condition they'd pre reg it and I'd need to wait 12 months for the v5..... A mate did that with a car for me, they put it through the books as a demonstrator. What is the benefit/advantage/reason of this? Dealers are not allowed to discount brand new cars outside of manufacturer rules or guidance. However they can buy in demonstrators and then sell them once they are finished using them. There might be a rule from the manufacturer like 6 months. Generally they get a discount buying a demonstrator but they can only buy a small number. BMW garages typically order demonstrator cars with a lot of options, for example, to help them push these options onto customers when they demo the car - during - and also to help them sell that demo car - at the end. So to answer your question, its just a way to discount without raising any eyebrows from the higher ups.

TDT said: PRO5T said: bennno said: Was a mad time I brought a new vxr8 for £21k versus its £39k price with the one condition they'd pre reg it and I'd need to wait 12 months for the v5..... A mate did that with a car for me, they put it through the books as a demonstrator. What is the benefit/advantage/reason of this? I should have written 12 weeks not months. To get round manufacturer demonstrator incentives and leverage tax write down rules from memory. It's the opposite for last few years of scarcity - dealers now pre regging to sell above manufacturer list..

Ok cheers fellas…I thought so, but the 12months did throw me off.

So many new dealership listings today on PH. It'l like they are having a clear out.

KittyLitter said: So many new dealership listings today on PH. It'l like they are having a clear out. 23 GT4 RSs listed at OPCs, ranging from £138,990 to £174,990...

I'd imagine that's quite a large proportion of the total cars on the market?

Constantly around 10% used of the total number of UK cars is perfectly normal for a Porsche GT.

With 207 already registered and more on the way these aren't anywhere near as rare as it was thought they would be at the start. I'd be pretty pissed if I had paid overs for one or bought a Taycan and a Macan to get on the list!

bennno said: I recall buying 4 y/o 997’s with 30k miles for £35k in 2010 or thereabouts. Bit expensive plus cost of borrowing is slowing demand significantly in the market, as it was intended to. Although £35k in 2010 is around £56k in today's money..from one of the online calculators: "£35 in 2010 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £56.24 today, an increase of £21.24 over 14 years. The pound had an average inflation rate of 3.45% per year between 2010 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 60.69%." Something I always forget to mention when explaining to my wife how our cars have retained their value

Venosta said: bennno said: I recall buying 4 y/o 997’s with 30k miles for £35k in 2010 or thereabouts. Bit expensive plus cost of borrowing is slowing demand significantly in the market, as it was intended to. Although £35k in 2010 is around £56k in today's money..from one of the online calculators: "£35 in 2010 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £56.24 today, an increase of £21.24 over 14 years. The pound had an average inflation rate of 3.45% per year between 2010 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 60.69%." Something I always forget to mention when explaining to my wife how our cars have retained their value £35,000 is £52,241 (BoE Inflation Calc). £10,000 is £14,926 So basically 50% extra.

Ed.Neumann said: Once a car gets to 8 years old it becomes a very niche market, well in the UK at least, because finance with a balloon is no longer available. (Rare and very high end stuff excluded). So you get into no mans land for the 90% of UK buyers who finance their cars, well you do on cars at this price. £25k is fine, £35k is OK for many, might have a bit of equity or a car they are selling they can put towards the new one, £40k seems to sell. But £50k is starting to put the monthlies as high if not higher than buying a 4-5 year old car on PCP. Plus you have to take into account it is now a 10 year old car and that comes with far more extra costs. Things will be starting to wear and need replacing, you will probably want a warranty on that so another £120 a month or so, plus you need to service it with Porsche to have a hassle free warranty experience, so if you are paying all that extra a bit of man maths says why not buy the 5 year old car from an OPC with 2 years warranty and get them to throw in the third year as part of the deal? For those financing it will be the same sort of price. £50k purchase with £10,000 deposit is still £850 a month over 60 months. £70k car from OPC with 2 years warranty is £840 a month with the same £10k down, albeit with a £35k balloon at the end. But you can convince yourself at the end of the term you will stick another £5k in and a get a bank loan for £550 a month until it is yours. However, the cars at £37k go straight away. £7k in, £550 a month and at the end you own it. Bingo! You raise some interesting points here. However circumstances vary where picking up an older car may be the right choice. I bought a 991.1 C2S Cab with 9,200 on the clock, single owner with all the bells and whistles last year from OPC. The car had been serviced by that OPC all it's life. They knew the owner better than he knew himself. It is a 2012 car (so 11 years old when I bought it) and I paid (64K) including a 2 year warranty, a Porsche driving experience and Ceramic treatment (that was 4K+ for all three). I traded in my SL 63 and got 33K. In that case I did not even consider a balloon payment as a straight HP made more sense. If I choose to trade in about 3 years time the car will still be under warranty (assuming I extend) and should have a healthy value with the usual last of the NA gen blah blah sell. My point is I see cars not for how old they are but for the mileage. Maybe I am naive but the truth is the mileage is more relevant to any issues one is going to have rather than the age (that obviously includes maintenance etc). Sometimes going for older is a better deal. I assume this means I am appealing to a more nuanced clientele - a thinking one. I will average 5K a year and in 3 years it will have 25K on the clock with a full OPC service history. My thinking is it should sell and be viable for a trade in. As this is my first Porsche I am interested to get owners views who are on their 2nd ,3rd,4th Porsche........am I dreaming or is there method to my madness (yes I know there will no warranty offered by Porsche once it hits 15 years so I may be trading in at the 14 year mark). Edited by FrancisA on Friday 7th June 19:54

I think that if the basis for your purchase makes you happy that is all that matters. Although mileage is a factor I am more likely to buy on condition and history because mileage alone doesn't take into account things such as number of cold starts and average miles per engine operating hour.

g7jhp said: £35,000 is £52,241 (BoE Inflation Calc). £10,000 is £14,926 So basically 50% extra. I stand corrected but the point is still the point..after many years of low inflation many of us are of a generation where we have adjust to the fact that £35k in 2010, say, is more than £50k now. And if the car we bought for x in 2010 is worth x now, no, it hasn’t retained its value.

BAMoFo said: I think that if the basis for your purchase makes you happy that is all that matters. Although mileage is a factor I am more likely to buy on condition and history because mileage alone doesn't take into account things such as number of cold starts and average miles per engine operating hour. Condition is fantastic. Full inspection and warranty from Porsche

FrancisA said: You raise some interesting points here. However circumstances vary where picking up an older car may be the right choice. I bought a 991.1 C2S Cab with 9,200 on the clock, single owner with all the bells and whistles last year from OPC. The car had been serviced by that OPC all it's life. They knew the owner better than he knew himself. It is a 2012 car (so 11 years old when I bought it) and I paid (64K) including a 2 year warranty, a Porsche driving experience and Ceramic treatment (that was 4K+ for all three). I traded in my SL 63 and got 33K. In that case I did not even consider a balloon payment as a straight HP made more sense. If I choose to trade in about 3 years time the car will still be under warranty (assuming I extend) and should have a healthy value with the usual last of the NA gen blah blah sell. My point is I see cars not for how old they are but for the mileage. Maybe I am naive but the truth is the mileage is more relevant to any issues one is going to have rather than the age (that obviously includes maintenance etc). Sometimes going for older is a better deal. I assume this means I am appealing to a more nuanced clientele - a thinking one. I will average 5K a year and in 3 years it will have 25K on the clock with a full OPC service history. My thinking is it should sell and be viable for a trade in. As this is my first Porsche I am interested to get owners views who are on their 2nd ,3rd,4th Porsche........am I dreaming or is there method to my madness (yes I know there will no warranty offered by Porsche once it hits 15 years so I may be trading in at the 14 year mark). I can't answer your question, but the point I was trying to make is you are a bit of an exception. Not many people have £40,000 to put down as a deposit on a car, hence even if they want to buy the 10 year old car they can't. That was my point. Edited by Ed.Neumann on Saturday 8th June 11:28

Youforreal. said: I remember selling my 56k miles c4s back in 2009 for 25k You need to adjust prices though to be able to compare…£25k in 2009 is equivalent to £39k now with just basic monetary inflation. 2009 was also right in financial crisis - I remember being offered a Ferrari 550 for £28k around that time, which seemed expensive and was way out of my budget - I was driving a Maserati 3200 at the time. Edited by johnnyBv8 on Saturday 8th June 21:56

Ed.Neumann said: I can't answer your question, but the point I was trying to make is you are a bit of an exception. Not many people have £40,000 to put down as a deposit on a car, hence even if they want to buy the 10 year old car they can't. That was my point. Edited by Ed.Neumann on Saturday 8th June 11:28 It's a valid one. A couple of years ago you could borrow £25k at below 4%. Now your interest will be double. Going above 6% makes no sense once you borrow for more than 24 months. For me, that is.

g7jhp said: Venosta said: bennno said: I recall buying 4 y/o 997’s with 30k miles for £35k in 2010 or thereabouts. Bit expensive plus cost of borrowing is slowing demand significantly in the market, as it was intended to. Although £35k in 2010 is around £56k in today's money..from one of the online calculators: "£35 in 2010 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £56.24 today, an increase of £21.24 over 14 years. The pound had an average inflation rate of 3.45% per year between 2010 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 60.69%." Something I always forget to mention when explaining to my wife how our cars have retained their value £35,000 is £52,241 (BoE Inflation Calc). £10,000 is £14,926 So basically 50% extra. That is all very well, however, how many people have had a 50% increase in wages in real terms too? I don't think many people sit down and work out the buying power of their wages today compared with years gone by. The reality is, if we keep inflating everything, we can get everyone in a debt trap and make trillions from it. Inflation is a stealth tax. This is over a decade old but becomes more relevant every day.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0&t=... The inflation part starts at 9mins 40 seconds. 8 minutes long and well worth watching.

stuckmojo said: It's a valid one. A couple of years ago you could borrow £25k at below 4%. Now your interest will be double. Going above 6% makes no sense once you borrow for more than 24 months. For me, that is. I don't think the borrowing £25k is even the problem, the issue is £25k is no where near enough anymore. We are now seeing personal loans up to £35k being the norm looking at my clearscore and experian offers. But even with £35k you're still going to need another £50,000 to get into a 4 year old 911. You're going to need another £15-20,000 to get into a 9-10 year old one. And as you say, at 9% apr.

Ed.Neumann said: I don't think the borrowing £25k is even the problem, the issue is £25k is no where near enough anymore. We are now seeing personal loans up to £35k being the norm looking at my clearscore and experian offers. But even with £35k you're still going to need another £50,000 to get into a 4 year old 911. You're going to need another £15-20,000 to get into a 9-10 year old one. And as you say, at 9% apr. Fair point. I just went on the BoE calculator - which underestimates inflation in my opinion, and even 2020-2024 is adding 20%. The £32K 997.2 in 2020 is now £39500 - which buys you a lower end of the market 991.1 Wages haven't gone anywhere near closing that gap

I’m looking for a 991.2 PSE (base will do), they are 55k upwards for a dealer car. Most in the 60s. GTS in the 70s I much prefer the rear of the .2, maybe because of the grill, I find the .1 looks too plain. .1 does sound amazing though.

What would the list be on this GTS? 663 miles, owner clearly enjoyed it.... https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-porsche-9...

Sukh13 said: What would the list be on this GTS? 663 miles, owner clearly enjoyed it.... https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-porsche-9... Whatever list is, the sold price (for the spec it has) makes the new .2GTS seem all the more expensive.

Good value compared to this [PDK] https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-porsche-9... Edited by Mogul on Monday 10th June 21:35

Mogul]Good value compared to this [PDK said: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-porsche-9... Edited by Mogul on Monday 10th June 21:35 same car?

Porsche-worm said: With 207 already registered and more on the way these aren't anywhere near as rare as it was thought they would be at the start. I'd be pretty pissed if I had paid overs for one or bought a Taycan and a Macan to get on the list! Depends what you define as rare. I would call just over 100 cars a year from nearly 50 UK OPCs since start of production fairly rare and this number was exactly as expected. Both my OPCs are receiving just 2 more build slots each for the SRS and GT4 RS for this year and a similar low number next year until both models end production simultaneously in May/June.

Ive just picked up a new T manual on a decent discount and have been following the lightly used and new market for a couple of months. I'm intrigued by a twelve month old car in Exeter OPC that was originally listed at £104k a couple of months ago that was quickly reduced to £94.9k and has suddenly jumped to £95.9k! I'm guessing it's about the number of available cars, but it's a bit choppy out there.

Sukh13 said: What would the list be on this GTS? 663 miles, owner clearly enjoyed it.... https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-porsche-9... That’s been through once or twice before…failed to sell. I guess this time they took the medicine.

Blue62 said: Ive just picked up a new T manual on a decent discount and have been following the lightly used and new market for a couple of months. I'm intrigued by a twelve month old car in Exeter OPC that was originally listed at £104k a couple of months ago that was quickly reduced to £94.9k and has suddenly jumped to £95.9k! I'm guessing it's about the number of available cars, but it's a bit choppy out there. I would guess that there are a combination of factors. - This should be the optimal selling season, with 4-5 months of long days and dry roads ahead - Although rates are still quite high, economic and political confidence seem surprisingly stable - The forthcoming 992.2 doesn’t appear to have generated a new wave of excitement - It’s more money and probably won’t start arriving until we are approaching winter - Seems some people are preferring the .1, especially if manual is important - There is stock and deals to be enjoyed, but this will presumably diminish

Simply auto price tracking other cars which sell.

What percentage discount did you achieve?

av185 said: Simply auto price tracking other cars which sell. Is that how autotrader works for a dealer, does it adjust its price based on other cars advertised? How would autotrader know when a car is actually sold and for what for, this information would need to be given to them buy every seller?

Sukh13 said: What percentage discount did you achieve? The car retailed for £114 and I paid £101 including a full Xpel film covering.

av185 said: Simply auto price tracking other cars which sell. Does auto price tracking know the actual sale price or the advertised price? I chipped £5k off the advertised price by the time we struck a deal.

Blue62 said: av185 said: Simply auto price tracking other cars which sell. Does auto price tracking know the actual sale price or the advertised price? I chipped £5k off the advertised price by the time we struck a deal. A combination of all factors. Algorithms will guage the period advertised the price and when withdrawn or sold relative to all others similar on the market at that time. Most consider the spec and mileage. So if a car was sold for say AP £150k within 2 days it will assume a sold figure at or close to the AP.

Blue62 said: Does auto price tracking know the actual sale price or the advertised price? I chipped £5k off the advertised price by the time we struck a deal. Surely auto price can't track that. Don't see why any dealer would share that data - they are not going to want others (dealers or customers) to know that a car was advertised for x and only sold for x-5k. I would imagine they keep that data for themselves.

hungry_hog said: Blue62 said: Does auto price tracking know the actual sale price or the advertised price? I chipped £5k off the advertised price by the time we struck a deal. Surely auto price can't track that. Don't see why any dealer would share that data - they are not going to want others (dealers or customers) to know that a car was advertised for x and only sold for x-5k. I would imagine they keep that data for themselves. Agree, AT must track asking prices. I would imagine the only way AT would know if a car is sold, at what price and not removed from sale, would be if they were given this information from a dealer.

Blue62 said: The car retailed for £114 and I paid £101 including a full Xpel film covering. That’s good, including or excluding OTR charges?

How much would you offer for this car, been up for sale coming up to a year. Has PASM and PSE.

Sukh13 said: How much would you offer for this car, been up for sale coming up to a year. Has PASM and PSE. I've been tracking this car, along with the C2S that Cridfords have for sale

991.1, black on black, PDK, full Porsche history, 130k miles. £29,995 https://spencerjames-cars.com/vehicle/name/porsche... 3 years doing 10k a year and I bet you would still get £20k for it.

And it still looks a very nice car. It's that Gen2 engine again ...

Ed.Neumann said: 991.1, black on black, PDK, full Porsche history, 130k miles. £29,995 https://spencerjames-cars.com/vehicle/name/porsche... 3 years doing 10k a year and I bet you would still get £20k for it. Mileage shouldn't be an issue if the condition is good. someone decided to put a paddle wheel on it, which is a good sign. Possibly the first non written off 991 under £30k before haggling I can remember.

A 120k mile 991 went for £32k on AT in two days this week, so keenly priced cars are moving.

20k miles 4GTS with a good spec unsold at £65k.

Sukh13 said: 20k miles 4GTS with a good spec unsold at £65k. That would be £70k with fees, for a 7 year old 911, brought via an auction platform with limited comeback or buyer protection. Thats strong money - feels like theres a value gap in the market between buyers and sellers currently.

bennno said: That would be £70k with fees, for a 7 year old 911, brought via an auction platform with limited comeback or buyer protection. Thats strong money - feels like theres a value gap in the market between buyers and sellers currently. Feels that way

bennno said: Sukh13 said: 20k miles 4GTS with a good spec unsold at £65k. That would be £70k with fees, for a 7 year old 911, brought via an auction platform with limited comeback or buyer protection. Thats strong money - feels like theres a value gap in the market between buyers and sellers currently. 100%

What price would be considered reasonable?

How much would it be new?