LSD Availability

I see Eurocar Boutique is expecting the 9ff power kit to be available in mid sept., but does anyone know when they will have the 9ff LSD in stock? Also, I've read somewhere that it is a clutch type unit. Is this confirmed? How about cost?

Sounds like a call to Eurocar Boutique is in order, or at least an email. Farnbacher-Loles (another site sponsor) also has LSD's available. I don't know the differences between the two.

I thought about calling or sending an email, but I was hoping that someone already knew or that ECB would respond so that the latest information could be shared with everyone.

I have sent Farnbacher-Loles an email asking about the LSD but they don't reply.

<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">Here's the scoop.<o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">9ff previously offered a Porsche motorsorts GT2- based LSD which was then modified to fit the Boxster (and Carrera). This unit retaled for $3300. Unfortunately, this unit does NOT fit in the Cayman....sigh.<o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">So, 9ff designed their own LSD for the Cayman - which was integral in helping their 430HP CR42 fight off Porche's 997 GT3. I'm sure some of you have seen these resulst wherein the CR42 had a 1 sec lower lap time than the 997 GT3.<o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">This LSD is now available for the demanding driver who needs maximum traction.<o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">The price for a single unit however reflects the proprietary design and runs a wallet-draining $5200 (plus shipping). However, we at eurocar boutique anticipate the demand from Cayman drivers who are unsatisfied to pegleg around the track. We can offer the unit for $3500 but it entails an order of TEN units. We are willing to do this – but it would be helpful to get 5 drivers in a group buy to make this happen.<o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">So who is interested? <o ></o >[/quote] <p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt">We have 10 cayman powerkits and two 4.1L engines inbound this month. It would be great to ship it all together if possible, but the real issue is demand. Does anybody want one? The line forms at the left.<o ></o >[/quote] BTW – the standard setting is 25/40 acell/decel, but it can be set up to 60/80.[/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] Edited by - ECB on 09/01/2006 12:11:39 PM

I'm interested... how hard is it to install this?

25/40 accel/decel Why is there more lock up when decelerating? I would think the other way around would be more forgiving.

They are probably busy prepping cup cars, which is a big part of their business. try calling [phone removed]. Ask for Spencer or Kip. They are both very knowledgeable.

There is lock up on both accel and decel. You want the differential to lock on deceleration to prevent the tail from squirming under hard braking. You would notice it mostly at the end of a long straight where it is bumpy in the braking zone (e.g. Lime Rock Park).

Thanks for the reply joelfurey, but I guess I should have made myself more clear. I understand the benefits, as I have experience with several different LSD's (street applications) and even full Lockers (off-road). I have seen units that provide no lock when decelerating, units that provide equal lockwhen accelerating and decelerating, and units that lock more when accelerating than decelerating. However, I haven't seena LSDthatlocks morewhiledecelerating than when accelerating. So to me, this unit is odd and I wonder why 9ff chose this set-up for the Cayman.... Or perhaps this is a common setup in racing applications and I am simply unaware of it?? Just want to learn.

I am interested but I need to know how easy the installation is and whether any other modications are needed.

If trying to contact FarnbacherLoles I would suggest you contact Roger Garbow. [email removed] Spencer and Kip are usually too busy to get back to you. Roger will.

Well, FWLIW I've tried (& so far as I can tell have) uploaded to the 'Server' where ever Server may be, two photos of a limited slip for the Caymam provided by Farnbacher/Loles. I don't recall discussing in great detail, beyond the statement to me the unit should improve track braking behavior, specific lock up figures. To the best of my recollection, the figures '40/60' may have been mentioned as the lock up split. I don't know if that ratio is permanently fixed within the unit, or adjustable Nothing was said so far as I recall, & I was too ignorant to ask at the time about adjustability. FWIW, the unit has not yet been installed in the car. I hope to have it in by mid-Sept for the local (to me) Porsche Club season finale and Club races. I'm hoping to attend if some 18' track wheels get here in time, and the shop can get the diff installed. My understanding is that the install is NOT a complicated matter. If I can, I'll try to be there when it goes down and document the effort. You just need to ? measure and match the existing differential back lash settings and replace the old open diff with the new. Famous last words ........ If I figure out how to find & add the uploaded photos to this post I will, or perhaps K-Man with his super powers over all things posted can fill in the blanks Cheers Edited by - mlpor on 09/02/2006 08:55:26 AM

40/60 lock-up is GT3 setup, I believe Statis is 60/40 for the CS. ECB - can you provide some technical information about the LSD, its type, if any specific type of oil that need to used, and estimated labor hours (I'd suspect ~6 hrs, but I am not sure)? Thanks,

Does Torsen make parts for our cars?

mlpor, Thanks for the pics I put them into the image gallery here. Here is one of the 2 pics:

I received the following reply from Roger of Farnbacher-Loles: The Limited Slip Differential is fairly easy to install by any competent shop. Price: $3000 plus shipping 60/40 lock-up clutch type differential Basic installation steps: Requires removal of factory differential Install bearings on new unit Set back lash and install It should not void any warranties when installed properly. We have them in stock. To order, contact our parts department at: [email removed] or call [phone removed] and ask for Peter. Can someone with expertise on this offer an opinion as to which is the better LSD and the meaning of various lock ratios? Edited by - titanic on 09/03/2006 11:44:06 PM Edited by - titanic on 09/03/2006 11:45:22 PM

Quote: '.... Can someone with expertise on this offer an opinion as to which is the better LSD and the meaning of various lock ratios? Edited by - titanic on 09/03/2006 11:44:06 PM ....' Titanic, FWLIW I think your question can be answered, ... or not.., in several ways. IMO, at the simplist, it depends a lot on what you are doing with the car, and your level of (a) driving sophistication/requirements, and (b) ability to 'tune' the suspension as a whole, as a complete system to come up with a 'best' LSD. Certainly, the fact that 9ff represents their unit to be 'adjustable' seems like a plus. That's not to say the F/L unit isn't, but I suspect based on the photos published, all the extra bolts on the 9ff unit that seem to be missing from the F/L probably have something to do with adjustability. OTOH, if you aren't going to be using the adjustability of the diff, I suspect its just one more thing that can (a) go wrong and/or (b) spend a lot of time fooling about with. And that's assuming the F/L piece isn't adjustable, something your email from Rodger doesn't specifically address. Otherwise it's, at current published prices, a $500 difference with the quality of the particular piece, vis-a-vis it's actual designer and manufacturer, at this point in time, someting of an unknown factor. We've no idea who 9ff's manufacturer is. F/L's piece is sourced through Stasis. Whether Stasis is the actual mfg or not I guess is open to speculation. F/L has a pretty good reputation for fielding very successful racing efforts, so one can only extrapolate they've done their homework, an appropriate degree of testing, and are willing to put their name and reputation behind their version of the LSD. As of which is better, I think first you start with, for your application and use, is a LSD better than no LSD? FWIW, that's a matter of open discussion and debate on a number of (I know it's a different car) Lotus Elise forums. There are strong pro/con camps and arguements both for and against LSD's on the Elise largely varying based on the type of track use to which the vehicle is to be put. Check those out, then go on to the 'Which would be better, 9ff's vs. F?L's, adjustable vs. maybe not etc. For bar stool racing only, why $3,500 vs. 'only' $3,000 vs. double adjustable, multi phase warp drive photon torpedo lithium crystal My 2 cents vs. shinny chrome vs. titanium metalic gray finsh, I'd guess I'd say the $3,500 multi adjustable features ought to win the beers race. For what little it's worth, I'm not so sure that holds up on the track Mike, I'm pretty sure this isn't going to help anyone, P.

My local Porsche workshop throws in another suggestion: Quaife ATB. Best for road car, and I should get 'torque biassing differential' not plate type. Would appreciate if someone could spell that out in plainer English.

All limited slip diffs have a torque bias, that just means they transfer torque to the tire with more traction. I'm not familiar with that brand, but I think what they meant is that it is not a clutch type unit. Therefore it is a gear type unit. In simply terms, a clutch type uses clutch plates to transfer torque. A gear type uses helical gears (a normal open diff uses bevel spider and side gears) to create the friction needed for torque transfer. A few years back I installeda Detroit Truetrac (gear type LSD) in my truck. The operation of the unit was very smooth and it didn't require any additives for the diff gear oil. Those are the biggest advantages of the gear type unit, plus it shouldn't ever wear out like a clutch type will. The downside was in situations with absoluetly 0 traction on one side it didn't work unless you applied a little brake. I only encountered this situationin extremeoff-road conditions. Overall, I feel that gear type units aregreat for street use.

I have fitted a Quiafe ATB diff to my Caterham. The other option available at the time was a ZF 'plate' type diff. The opionions seemed to the that: 1) Quaife diff is quieter and has less drive line shunt. 2) Quaife never locks up 100%. ie there is always a slight degree of slip between the 2 wheels. 3) ZF is more 'aggresive' in its action. ie it 'locks up' quicker and more obviously than the quaife. 4) the Quiafe does not like being abused by running over curbs very aggresivly whilst racing. In summary... I went for the quaife as it is better for road driving, and was £250 cheaper (£450 vs 700). I do really notice the difference in the car, but you also have to be more awake as it is far easier to spin the car under power now. However, it is also a lot easier to do donuts, and spin turns!!

From http://www.rennsportsystems.com/2d.html '..... Porsche has offered the ZF clutch-pack type limited slip differential in almost all 911’s and 930’s since 1966. These units are quite strong and can be set for locking factors of 40% to 80%. The clutches need replacement under racing conditions to maintain proper lockup but these are quite trouble free. An 80% locking factor is difficult to drive on the street, especially in wet conditions, but for open track racing these are quite popular. Street or Autocross usage requires the LSD to be set at 40%; simple to do with the proper parts. There are now other LSD options for 901, 915 and G50 transmissions called Torque-Sensing differentials. These are gear-type units as opposed to the ZF clutch-type ones, and do not require any parts to maintain optimum performance. This unique, patented design allows full differentiation between the wheels as well as providing power to both sides and they produce less understeer than the Factory LSDs. Guard Transmission makes an excellent one as well as the unit from Quaife. For Autocross and normal street driving ,the Torque-Sensing units are more benign in their operation but they do not improve the handing like the Factory clutch-pack units do. The ZF or Guard Transmission LSD's really stabilize the car under braking and help reduce trailing throttle oversteer. .....' I assume what generally applicable to the 911 limited slips will also apply to use in the Cayman. and from http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/e36drive.htm re: 'quaife' type LSD's vs. clutch the BMW corwd offer the following: '.... <p align="left"> <u>Korman 50% and 75% Limited Slip Differential Conversions</u> <p align="left">If you race, autocross, rally, do BMW driving schools, or otherwise tend to push your car to the limit, let us convert your 25% limited slip differential to 50% or 75% limited slip. Wheel spin is reduced or eliminated, improving track times significantly. Additionally, the reduction in internal slippage lowers lubricant temperatures, helping prolong bearing life. The conversion requires special machining at our facility, making it necessary for you to ship your differential to us for modification. Your salesperson can help you decide which percentage is right for you. <p align="left">75% Limited Slip Conversion P/N 33126375 <p align="left">50% Limited Slip Conversion P/N 33126350 (price when done with gear change, rebuild or similar) <p align="left"> <p align="left"> <u>Quaife Automatic Torque-Biasing Limited Slip Units</u> <p align="left"> Already used in Formula 1, IMSA, SCCA and Pro Rally applications, Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing Limited Slip Units are now available for your BMW. Quaife units utilize a gear driven mechanical process to direct power at an infinitely variable rate (as opposed to a fixed 25%, 40% or 75% rate) to the wheel with the most traction. Unlike the more complicated and fragile Torsen design and the BMW OEM clutch pack limited slip units which tend to transfer power abruptly, the Quaife units are simple and rugged in design and provide a very smooth power transfer between the two driven wheels. Quaife units have proven to make as much a <u>one second per mile difference</u> in lap times on road courses. We can provide you with the unit for your own installation, or install it here in our facility. ( These units are sold on an outright basis making them an ideal option for cars which did not come equipped with a limited slip differential from the factory) <p align="left">Quaife Unit For E36 325 and 328 P/N 33146900 .....' <p align="left"> <p align="left"> Edited by - mlpor on 09/05/2006 9:09:11 PM

With Tip and PASM, do they place a restriction on the type of LSD I can install?

Titanic, the diff is Purely mechanical - as such, PASM or your tippy will not prevent its proper functioning in any way. Similarly, PSM and ABD are not affected. I should mention that while it is a clutch type unit to help contribute to improved handling, 9ff has used the strongest materials available to gaurantee longevity. This unit will outlast the clutch type units that Porsche uses in the GT2/3. Of course, the 2yr/24k mile warranty applies as always. The LSD is manufactured by a german company that also makes the diff for Porsche's RS Spyder (ALMS) racer. I have 3 people commited at the group buy price. All we need is 2 more and five people save $1700!! Do each other a favor, lets get this thing on the road.

One more question on the difference between gear-based vs clutch-based LSDs: Is one more efficient than the other? In other words, is there more energy loss in one compared to the other?

My understanding is that there is NOT a LSD available for the CS with the Tiptronic... Can anyone verify or help with additional information...

Below is some blurb but it helps to understand how it works..... The Automatic Torque Biasing differential is Quaife's unique patented design, and is an after-market differential that provides smooth, constant traction for racing or slippery road conditions. The characteristics of the differential are that it progressively locks as torque increases; there are no plates or clutches to wear out, as the more conventional limited-slip designs incorporate With an normal open differential, fitted as standard on most cars, much precious power is wasted through wheel spin under acceleration. This happens because the open differential shifts power to the wheel with less grip - along the path of least resistance. This differential, however, does just the opposite. It senses which wheel has the better grip, and automatically biases the power to that wheel. It does this smoothly and constantly, and without ever completely removing power from the other wheel. This differential also controls loss of traction when the drive wheels are on slippery surfaces such as ice and snow or mud, providing the appropriate biased traction needed to overcome these adverse conditions. This ATB differential provides constant and infinitely variable drive. Power is transferred automatically without the use of normal friction pads or plates seen in other limited-slip designs. This differential is extremely strong and durable, and since it is gear-operated, it has no plates or clutches that can wear out and need costly and regular replacement. This differential is great for street driving or racing. Racers don't have to put up with locking mechanisms or spools that tear the steering wheel out of their hands when cornering. Because it behaves like an open differential during ordinary driving, street drivers will have trouble telling it's there until pushing the cars towards its limits. This differential is proven in everything from SCCA Rallying to drag racing and Formula 1. It provides autocrossers with such an advantage, it has become "required" equipment for a winning effort. It is also going to be a good price To Be Confirmed but under £1000 (< $2000 ) Watch this space as I'm having a quantity made as we speak. A variation will also be available for 3.2 S Boxster gearbox if anybodies interested