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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHRMS seal has ridges on it - normal?
Leading reported evidence
Install way into the block the new seal wants
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Since the old seal was probably installed all the way into the block the new seal wants to be a bit short of all the way in.
Leading evidence: 'Install way into the block the new seal wants' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Install way into the block the new seal wants' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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The purpose of the machined delrin tool is to achieve the above two points with accuracy....in case someone thinks the tool is dumb and can be replaced by or compared with a $2 coupler
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I just drilled the 4 holes and used the flywheel bolts to draw it in nice and square.
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I've never installed a Porsche RMS but I've installed seals in other engines and fabrications/machine tools, and I used a properly sized section of PVC pipe/tube.
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The purpose of the machined delrin tool is to achieve the above two points with accuracy....in case someone thinks the tool is dumb and can be replaced by or compared with a $2 coupler
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Suggestion
The new seal should be installed to a depth of 13 mm from the lip of the case, and the bolts should be replaced with the new version that is incapsolated and has "star" head.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Yeah, thanks Mcmaster, I just stumbled upon a post where JPF from Renntech explains how to use a 4" coupler with flywheel bolts to drive the seal in - no fabrications is required whatsoever.
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Suggestion · Original poster
In my understanding, I simply use the back end of a measuring caliper to do a "stair step" between flywheel mating surface and highest point of the seal.
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NEARBY ACTION · LINK UNVERIFIED
The purpose of the machined delrin tool is to achieve the above two points with accuracy....in case someone thinks the tool is dumb and can be replaced by or compared with a $2 coupler
Hello everybody,
Just came back from the dealer, picked up the latest rms seal to replace mine.
Lookin at it, there are four small ridges, like it was cast in plastic and broken off later. Is it normal? Got me worried, seems like the ridges are right where the seal is suppose to ride on the crank!?
Anyone who installed it themselves can chime in?
It shows you pay attention to details
JFP, John, on Renntech mentioned using a pvc pipe coupler of the right size as the rms tool but I forgot the size. You may want to search there.
I bought a delrin tool machined to the correct bore and depth as a driver to install the seal but I have not used it yet. It should work well though according to others.
I've never installed a Porsche RMS but I've installed seals in other engines and fabrications/machine tools, and I used a properly sized section of PVC pipe/tube.
To the OP: Take the RMS with you to a well-stocked plumbing supply store or hardware store and see if you can find the right size of PVC to use.
A tip to install the RMS: Do not install the new seal to the same depth as the old seal. The old seal probably left a groove in the crank journal and if the new seal ends up at this spot the new seal will leak. Either install the new seal a bit deeper than the old seal or a bit shallower. Since the old seal was probably installed all the way into the block the new seal wants to be a bit short of all the way in.
Yeah, thanks Mcmaster, I just stumbled upon a post where JPF from Renntech explains how to use a 4" coupler with flywheel bolts to drive the seal in - no fabrications is required whatsoever.
The old seal, I believe was too much in anyway, and it looks like an aftermarket seal .
I've also noticed the extensive use of non OEM looking case bolts everywhere on this engine. I have no history and the engine only has around 55k, but would this suggest a rebuilt? No letters were added at the engine VIN
Non OEM bolts could be explained if someone had the engine apart.
However, I'm not familiar with the bolts and what (if any) variation there can be on the bolts used in engines that come from the factory thus the non OEM looking bolts could be normal.
What letters were added to the engine VIN (aka serial #)? Porsche factory rebuilt/remanufactured engines at an "AT" added to the engine VIN (serial number), IIRC.
Just beware if you don't use the factory tool, you may get unlucky and get leaks if not done 100%. Heck, even if you do use factory tool and the operator is careless, you can still have leaks. Ask me how I know.
Ok, someone needs to develop a "faultless" RMS tool. lol
I'll do by best and take my time , heck, they are on their 5th revision or something on that seal!
So, it's 13mm from flywheel mating surface to the seal face where writings are?
These are not aftermarket bolts, and this is not an aftermarket seal.
It's just the older version that came with the car.
The new seal should be installed to a depth of 13 mm from the lip of the case, and the bolts should be replaced with the new version that is incapsolated and has "star" head. 4 bolts in total.
There is info on Renntech that describes using a PVC coupler and the internal ridges to pull the seal in with bolts rather than hammering it in. I think it mentions a 4" coupler but it is wrong and maybe 3" is correct. Take the seal with you to the plumbing department and you will figure it out.
I used an
end cap
for 3" ABS pipe. Actual dimension is 4" o.d and it works really well. I think it was about $5 at the hardware store. I just drilled the 4 holes and used the flywheel bolts to draw it in nice and square.
@billiboy - awesome, will do that
@rockhouse - thanks, I was actually suppose to try that coupler
@meirschwartz - thank you, things sound good to me this way. I was reffering to my previous 2001 which had star bolts, but... RMS was indeed replaced to 997 version which explains presence of the star bolts. Got me confused on this new one
It may be obvious but from the replies these points were not emphasized. The proper tool serves two purposes:
1) To push in the RMS as squarely as possible (with respect to the crank)
2) Ensure the RMS sits at the proper depth and equal depth all around the edge. If you examine an opened engine case halves, you will understand why it's 13mm and not 12 or 14mm because 13mm is the only depth that makes sense.
Any pipe coupler with the proper diameter can achieve 1) but you will have to eyeball 2), kinda like trying to draw a straight line free hand. Given how picky the RMS is (not supposed to touch the seal by bare hands and you need the $500 factory tool ensure it's straight), it's always good to be careful.
The purpose of the machined delrin tool is to achieve the above two points with accuracy....in case someone thinks the tool is dumb and can be replaced by or compared with a $2 coupler
http://www.cheetahonline.com/technic...orsche-engine/
Thanks for the link.
Still not clear where from calculate that 13mm. My old one sits at 13.4mm but I measure up to the surface where round notches are and not the most outer ridge.
I thought of using end plug method plus a stopper, some sort of a smaller pipe resting on the crank. Just need to figure it,s exact length and cut it dead square.
Still confused about that blue thing. I remove it prior to placing the seal onto crank. Or I use it to somehow transfer the seal from it onto the crank? Article above mentions something but it's not clear to me. And the "plastic insert" , what they call it there, does not look like mine.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/750x750/rms8_9b6b15af94dd5a2e46c9f929e8687a77eaeb9dce.jpg
"Still confused about that blue thing. I remove it prior to placing the seal onto crank. "
In the link below the 3rd photo from the top it says "Place the open end of the plastic insert onto the crankshaft end. This should fit on as shown. ". Looks like your blue insert is put in backwards though. Did it come like that from Porsche? I can check mine tonight.
That delrin tool from Cheeta is really nice for $60 and I would have bought one if I knew about it. I balked at the $500 factory tool for obvious reasons. But Ahsai is right - it has to be done with precision.
Mine is still leak-free, but I'm an artsy type so I can draw a straight line freehand
Why can't one touch the seal with your bare hands?
This seal is no different that other main seals for other engines. Believe it or not, they can tolerate quiet a bit of being not square in the hole but one should try to get the seal in as square as possible. I think it's more important NOT to put the new seal exactly where the old one was than to keep the 13mm distance.
Ooops... I'm screwed right out of the gate. I couldn't resist knowing what the new seal felt like to the touch (smooth as glass btw, for those who can resist the temptation)... should have been a warning sticker on it!
Btw, where exactly we draw that "straight line" ? MS Paint anyone?
In my understanding, I simply use the back end of a measuring caliper to do a "stair step" between flywheel mating surface and highest point of the seal.
Imre, I'm just relaying a directive from Porsche.
Search for the word "touch" in this article and you'll see that mentioned multiple times
http://www.callasrennsport.com/wp-co...of-M96-Woe.pdf
As to why and being counter-intuitive, I agree but you have to ask Porsche
Well, my guess is probably you're OK.
Just like drawing a straight line free hand, if you're good, it's still a straight line
The tool is just there to make it easier, faster, and more foolproof.
Ashai - the tool gives me a reading, a digital one up to tenth of mm. So once it reads 13.00mm taken from multiple spots across the the circle - I guess I'm good
Unless we're not seeing the things same way....
I'll take a pic tomorrow
