Porsche 993 cab tip still more than £25.... - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

So after 3 months of looking at different Porsches I can't get away from the desire to have another air cooled car, ideally a 993 for all the reasons mentioned by various people HOWEVER what a nightmare market at the moment, I have conceded to a tiptronic and a convertible and actually after driving them think they still do it. But the issue is price, it just amazes me the price of very average cars, I have always paid about £20k for my 3.2 Carreras and 964's but I have previously had very good cars, it seems a dodgy 993 will sell for £20k even in tiptronic. So my question....... How much for a good tiptronic convertible ? I saw one yesterday for £19k but when I got there the history was patchy, it had actually been imported from Germany and it needed money spent on it. But I wonder if this is actually an okay deal, get it inspected and if it turns out okay then you have an okay car that you can spend money on in the future to get up to scratch. It's a sad day when normal air cooled Porsches are in the silly money area reserved for the turbos and old crome cars

Err, haven't you noticed that values have been on the rise for air cooled cars recently?

Well ermm yes I have noticed the rise in air cooled prices and for the right cars with the right spec I.e C2 manual coupe I can completely understand it but I wonder if other models have really gone up as much, you see a fair few cab and tiptronics for less than £20k and I never really see the £25+ convertibles selling. There have been several around advertised for ages , so I wonder to what degree you need to pay £30k to get a decent one of these.....

Personally, I'd wait it out a little. Once interest rates rise (& they will) the prices of these types of old cars will adjust. You ain't going to see RS' back at £40k but the average run of the mill stuff will settle back down again.

I'd agree. Prices have risen across the board recently, and this spring it's all gone a bit silly - mostly perpetuated by certain dealers stimulating the 'bubble' effect. However, I've also noticed a lot of cars not selling and languishing in the classifieds for a long time, so I would expect things to look more favourable in the coming months. Tips and Cabs do seem to be better value and Targas seem to be slow sellers.

YoungMD said: you see a fair few cab and tiptronics for less than £20k and I never really see the £25+ convertibles selling. There have been several around advertised for ages , so I wonder to what degree you need to pay £30k to get a decent one of these..... I think you'll have to provide the answer yourself by going to look at those cars. They could be over priced tat which is why they have not sold. In the current market I reckon you will have to pay £30K for a really good example.

Good replies this is kind of what I think, if I wanted a 80k miles with full service history and 3 owners then I would be happy to pay 30k, but I am happy with a 100k + a bit miles and a car I can use but that is not iffy so I would expect to pay closer to 20k for this in a proper market. I think you are right its time and patients that is required

Problem as touched on, there has been a rise in all classic car prices. This creates opportunities for even the poor standard cars rising. I viewed a 3.2 recently at 27k (corrosion on inners sills/B posts-and had been inspected) i wouldn't have paid 18-20k for it. So IMO theres a lot of buyers going to get their fingers burnt buying at over inflated prices then realising the £000's to make right. The prices after the summer will drop for vanilla air-cooled cars especially on private sales, certain dealers will have cars marked up at inflated prices and sit on them for yrs though.

Couldn't agree more, I went to see a 993 cab tip at a certain David B cars, fair enough it is now only up for £22k but it was up for £25k and the windscreen is corroded and all it other weak points like rear bumper etc, the paintwork was different colour silver on pretty much each panel and just generally a very worn uncared for car. That's a £15k car which okay may sell for 18k with 10k worth of work needed, but £25k that's not nice !!

YoungMD said: Couldn't agree more, I went to see a 993 cab tip at a certain David B cars, fair enough it is now only up for £22k but it was up for £25k and the windscreen is corroded and all it other weak points like rear bumper etc, the paintwork was different colour silver on pretty much each panel and just generally a very worn uncared for car. That's a £15k car which okay may sell for 18k with 10k worth of work needed, but £25k that's not nice !! Is there a Yellow cab at Strasse in Leeds? Unsure of the price but that will no doubt be a straight car. Theres a couple of nice 3.2 cabs also on PH for a squeeze more than 25k but with a little negotiation you never know. Good luck matey.

People are forgetting old minis and triumph tr4s are now going for large sums (my old cooper s would be worth north of 25k now) and resto compared to a 911 are mostly appalling. It's not just air-cooled porsche that have risen. Compare an old air-cooled to some of the stuff out there and you will see that suddenly they don't seem such silly prices. Personally I think a high mileage well looked after at 22k a bit of a bargain personally.

Without a doubt comparing 911s to some of the cars I just looked around at the Lake District show today they're good value! However, I still suspect a correction will come when interest rates go back up & it will be these "run of the mill" classics that will feel the pinch hardest.

On the other hand prices may continue to rise as the 993 was so underpriced ..................... As modern cars get larger, more and more divorced from a driver experience point of view, etc etc.... It's why I put good money in a 90s sports car compared to a much more capable modern sports car. I think there is plenty of scope for them to rise yet before the market settles.

If they were underpriced then they're now just about on par with European prices which must only be fair, but my point concerns the cars that the OP is talking about-the rough around the edges high mileage cars in dubious spec. Good cars have always (& will continue to IMHO) command good prices, it's the not so good examples that will drop in value (all IMHO).

LaurasOtherHalf said: Without a doubt comparing 911s to some of the cars I just looked around at the Lake District show today they're good value! However, I still suspect a correction will come when interest rates go back up & it will be these "run of the mill" classics that will feel the pinch hardest. A very small increase in rates in the short term will make zero difference to these cars values. We are not talking rates up to a significant rate to affect the value. Rates will not be rocketing up period so this is a nonsenses

I agree with the coments but my basic rule of thumb for now and the last 10 years has kind of been that a decent classic car will cost you £20k, look at an old lotus Elan, and the old bmw's and nice merc's all about £20k for a decent one, and the only cars to break that as a very general rule are specials like the 1970 and earlier 911 and the turbos and one off models like the speedster. Maybe it's time to up the 20k but not to 25k for a dodgy car surely. I even see dodgy 964's going for 20+ and with all respect to the 964 they are not the easiest of classics...... Correction needed at the end of the summer or beyond surely ....

911dullard said: A very small increase in rates in the short term will make zero difference to these cars values. We are not talking rates up to a significant rate to affect the value. Rates will not be rocketing up period so this is a nonsenses

Air cooled prices have me a little confused, there seems to be a lot of variability which requires going to see vehicles and seeing their history and them up close. I paid £18k for my 107k miles silver with blue manual C2 cab with massive history at 911V bug price 18 months ago and it needed £2k to get mechanically right, so call it £20k all in....I think I got in before the rises started. I then decided to throw some money at it with new Bilstein suspension and a few other bits that weren't actually needed, none of which really add any value but they were for me so I don't care. Cosmetically there's a few hundred £ I would to do it interior wise but other than, it's all good. I'm curious, what would people think it's worth now at 120k miles for a private sale? (Note I'm not selling, I'm actually in the middle of a 2 month euro road trip ) I'm fortunate in that I've lucked into a couple of appreciating cars (to a greater or lesser extent) - I know where the 550 is roughly at but literally have no idea about the old german girl! Edited by Mario149 on Sunday 22 June 22:27

Mario149 said: Air cooled prices have me a little confused, there seems to be a lot of variability which requires going to see vehicles and seeing their history and them up close. I paid £18k for my 107k miles silver with blue manual C2 cab with massive history at 911V bug price 18 months ago and it needed £2k to get mechanically right, so call it £20k all in....I think I got in before the rises started. I then decided to throw some money at it with new Bilstein suspension and a few other bits that weren't actually needed, none of which really add any value but they were for me so I don't care. Cosmetically there's a few hundred £ I would to do it interior wise but other than, it's all good. I'm curious, what would people think it's worth now at 120k miles for a private sale? (Note I'm not selling, I'm actually in the middle of a 2 month euro road trip ) I'm fortunate in that I've lucked into a couple of appreciating (to a greater or lesser extent) - I know where the 550 is roughly at but literally have no idea about the old german girl! I would imagine you would get £25k without too much trouble, as you say it's a funny market but clean cars are selling for that at least, especially c2 manuals which sell way way quicker than the cab or rolling green house (targa)

It's not rocket science, as these are generally accepted as classics as the good ones rise so do the rough ones, the differential being the perceived cost to get a rough one up to scratch which is pretty static. The only thing you can't change is mileage but we all know buy on condition so the above is still valid. Other marks the cream rise and the dogs die as the perceived potential value won't exceed the cost / time to refresh

I have an '89 C2 targa, it's averaged 6,000 miles pa, but still considered intergalactic mileage. In terms of prices I doubt anyone would want to part with 20k for it, however for me in terms of what I could replace it with in terms of a 4-seat, open-top, involving, emotional drivers car - I wouldn't sell it for 50k as there's simply no replacement. If this is the type of car you want to drive - get one, 20k+ is the same price as a tinselled Golf - what would you rather have...

YoungMD said: I would imagine you would get £25k without too much trouble, as you say it's a funny market but clean cars are selling for that at least, especially c2 manuals which sell way way quicker than the cab or rolling green house (targa) Just to confirm mine's a Cab so prob more like £23k or so I reckon based on the above! Anyway, gratuitous pic of the old girl (desperately in need of a clean!) at the campsite tonight bottle of wine at the campsite restaurant was €3.50....get in! (And it was drinkable ) Edited for drunky spelling and grammar....

Why aren't you parking the car in the tent and sleeping outside !!! Very nice car though Mileage is a funny thing, it completely sets the price, buy on condition may sound great but people don't it's as simple as that. A 60k 993 would cost you well in advance of 30k, it may cost another 10k to get it right due to clutch, suspension and so on that may well need doing even if it is only 60k, but a 150k miler with all the suspension and everything done would probably not sell for much more than 25k...... There you go, don't buy a car with high mileage it's as programmed into us as don't go shopping with a women as both end in loads of money and frustration .......

Mario149 said: Just to confirm mine's a Cab so prob more like £23k or so I reckon based on the above! Anyway, gratuitous pic of the old girl (desperately in need of a clean!) at the campsite tonight bottle of wine at the campsite restaurant was €3.50....get in! (And it was drinkable ) Edited for drunky spelling and grammar.... Lovely, and the great thing being should you decide to sell you'll probably get back every penny you've spent on it, enjoy the vin

People (including myself) are holding on to these cars as they will not depreciate any longer and once the obvious issues have been addressed these cars are cheap to keep on the road so personally i don't think that the prices will come down significantly from hereon. You can wait for the winter lull in cabrio prices but then you have missed 6 months of driving.

YoungMD said: Why aren't you parking the car in the tent and sleeping outside !!! Very nice car though Mileage is a funny thing, it completely sets the price, buy on condition may sound great but people don't it's as simple as that. A 60k 993 would cost you well in advance of 30k, it may cost another 10k to get it right due to clutch, suspension and so on that may well need doing even if it is only 60k, but a 150k miler with all the suspension and everything done would probably not sell for much more than 25k...... There you go, don't buy a car with high mileage it's as programmed into us as don't go shopping with a women as both end in loads of money and frustration ....... Mileage is the best standalone indicator of the condition of a car - a 150k car is much more likely to need other components refreshing/replacing than a 60k car.

YoungMD said: Why aren't you parking the car in the tent and sleeping outside !!! Lol!! Short answer: I'd be single in short order if I did

N24 said: I have an '89 C2 targa, it's averaged 6,000 miles pa, but still considered intergalactic mileage. In terms of prices I doubt anyone would want to part with 20k for it, however for me in terms of what I could replace it with in terms of a 4-seat, open-top, involving, emotional drivers car - I wouldn't sell it for 50k as there's simply no replacement. If this is the type of car you want to drive - get one, 20k+ is the same price as a tinselled Golf - what would you rather have... I'm really beginning to love the older Porsches (despite knowing relatively little about them I hasten to add), while I love modern performance, as I get a little more mature (32 summers and counting) it has been starting to dawn on me for a while that the older stuff is becoming (to me) very desirable. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if I ended up swapping the 993 for a 964 at a later date and worked backwards from there.

hornbaek said: People (including myself) are holding on to these cars as they will not depreciate any longer and once the obvious issues have been addressed these cars are cheap to keep on the road so personally i don't think that the prices will come down significantly from hereon. You can wait for the winter lull in cabrio prices but then you have missed 6 months of driving. Depreciation is low, but prices of standard cars are likely to see a correction at some point, they're riding on the coat tails of the blue chip cars. These cars certainly aren't cheap to keep on the road. You may go through a couple of years of cheap motoring but there's always a potential large bill around the corner. If you don't use it enough it'll be engine seals and niggles, if you use it it'll be general wear and tear.

youngsyr said: Mileage is the best standalone indicator of the condition of a car - a 150k car is much more likely to need other components refreshing/replacing than a 60k car. I would agree with that if we were talking about say 100k miles, and I can totally see where you're coming from. However, by the time you're getting to 150k miles, I'd argue that the cars at that mileage are a bit digital. You're either: 1) going to get something that's had the bare minimum done to it for its age etc and will be cheap (or worth substantially less) for a reason ( or several) or 2) going to get one that to a slightly greater or lesser extent has been looked after commensurate with it's age/mileage and is priced more firmly I'm on my 5th car or so in recent history that's been over 10 years old and/or high mileage for its marque and can honestly say that there's always *something* that needs doing to them. So in reality, I take my cars in for a checkover (and service as necessary) and some minor TLC every 6 months and before a road trip in them, currently: 993 has a squeaky rattly bit on the roof mechanism and in need of a clutch when I get home, Mini also needs a clutch soon and the 550 has a suspension "creak". And no doubt as soon as I have had those bits sorted some other random stuff will raise it's head, it's just all par for the course when running old cars.... Apart from the Toyota MR2, that's needed absolutely nothing other than an O2 sensor apart from routine servicing/maintenance over 10 years (first with friends who owned it previously, now with us)....I swear on my life it's black magic!!

If you want a decent air cooled car you have to cough up Im afraid. And I don't see any reason for that to change any time soon. Talk of bubbles is fantasy. Wait, and you will pay more. There are more buyers than cars and I see that ratio increasing. There are many owners, like myself, who are hanging on to their cars because they love them, and there is no natural next step. The obvious one is the GT3 and they are going crazy too! I can assure you thats no bubble either! Its just the market I'm afraid.