Why is it worth $25,000?

This is a serious question and I hope I do not get flamed for it. Particularly from 981 and 991 owners, I would like to know why the 991 is worth $25,000 more for identical equipment but 25 more HP. With the coming engine changes and rumors it would seem that Porsche really wants to push people to the 911 from the 981. I honestly cannot see why the 911 is worth the extra money. Thank you. Larry

Because its the "911" Once the 981 starts making lists like Wheeler Dealers » The Most Iconic Cars of all Time I am sure Porsche will add a larger $ value to them

Close but more like this The 50 Best Sports Cars of All Time: The Top 10 and this 9 reasons why Porsche 991 is the leading sports car model | Inquirer Business and this Sorry, Automakers: You’ll Never Beat the Porsche 911 I assume you are comparing a stripped 981S to a stripped base 991 and asking what do you get for the $25K? Well you got to remember there are “enthusiasts” and then the general public and you are only going to get “enthusiasts” responses here and not the other 95% of answers A bit faster 2+2 configuraton, which is important for those with babies and small children Better rear suspension The name plate AWD is an option Cabrio is an option Because it is a 911. Approx 25% of 911 sales are the base car (based upon the last time such numbers were released). If the ratios hold true today, PCNA sold 10443 911s in the US in 2014 of which maybe 2600 were base cars. PCNA sold 3383 Caymans of all kinds in 2013. I’m using 2013 so GTS cars aren’t in the mix. The ratio of Base to Cayman S I think used to be about 40/60. So maybe 2029? So I’m pretty confident to say Porsche sold significantly more Base Carreras than Cayman S cars in any year. Of course to get a true answer, you will have to poll the base Carrera owners. But I’ll guess the answers are closely tied to: 2+2 A tick quicker AWD is an option Because it’s a 911. They always want you to buy the 911. Why would a company want to sell you the cheap products when they can sell you the more expensive ones and make more profit. This is no different than the 914/924/944/968/986 etc. and will be no different in the next generation cars. The entry level cars get you into the marque. Once you are hooked, they want you to buy 10 more 911s over the rest of your life. And the strategy works. PAG makes a LOT of money. They know exactly what they are doing.

Cayman S to 911 is a $20k difference and 25hp from what I see. Is there truly no extra standard equipment on a 911? I'm too lazy to look. $20k isn't that crazy considering most of us probably spend that in non-performance options.

Seems like "Because it is a 911" is the best answer. Actually, I took my CS, many options but not performance, and compared it with a base 911 with the same options and the difference was $20k, add another $10k for the Carrera S. Those are the 2 WD models, obviously. 2+2 is worth something to some, certainly. Yet, it is hard to identify a clear driving advantage worth $20k, except the iconic 911. I won't be the only one faced with this question and decision as Porsche unveils its 2017 MY. Some have seen my other posts so you know I am not a fanboy, I have to rationalize the extra money to stay with a flat 6, even with a turbo. I cannot rule out a 911 but it seems I must drink the KoolAid first. Could very well happen because it is a very nice sports car and there are not many other alternatives...just what Porsche wants. Larry

I don't know the technical details - but there is likely a reason why so many track cars (out of the box) are 911 and not Caymans.

You are talking base 911 here, right? Not the S car and above. I'm not sure how many people regularly track the base car. That is why I pointed out that the public perception is far more important than the perception of enthusiasts. I think for 90% of the buyers, you got to look at what they want: 1. the fact you can option it as an AWD is a thing in the snowbelt. 2. or spec it as a Cabrio in the sunbelt is a thing. 3. But the big thing is the 2+2. You got a tick quicker and can bring your young family. This is not a small thing. It's significant to young families. If you are talking S or higher, that's vastly different. Remember the S cars are faster around the Ring than the previous GT3 or Turbos. Try this in your Cayman. This is more of what real life people do rather than the tiny percentage of people who track their cars. Or this or this

Seems like you are suggesting that the 2+2 is a major reason and selling point. I truly wonder how many people buy the 911 because it is 2+2 as opposed to the iconic Porsche? To me it seems that the 981 is such pure driving fun that I cannot imagine any reason to go to a 911 for 25 HP, because I do not need 2+2. I suspect that the status of an iconic Porsche is a better selling point, plus not owning an "entry level" car. Anyone who can spend $110-130K on a car does not want entry level anything. Larry

Well if you accepted Porsche marketing, a 991 is a step up from a 981. I wrote a post about how I don't think so and hence don't think a 911 is worth the extra cost over a cayman/boxster from a practical experience standpoint. Yes its .x second faster to 60, but such things aren't what make you want to drive and buy a car. BUT it has been pointed out that people view these things differently - for another person the slight differences in the 911 is nostalgia enough to want the car more. I would say 'if you have to ask, you probably don't understand'... hence for you it is not worth it. You are in good company though...plenty of people are like this, viewing the 911 as overpriced and settle on a cayman.

I looked at a 911 in part due to the 2+2. The girls are still young enough to fit in the back seats and thought it was fun to drive. the base model 3.4 is the same engine in the current car and didn't seem (to me) worth paying the extra cash for. The gap was more than 25 k though as we were looking at convertibles. More like 30 -40 equipped with a few things. Then you're in S territory. Why even look at a 911? Friend suggestions because of their experience with previous models. "It's a 911!" Is what I routinely heard. - that icon status goes a long way. The "entry level " model as you put it has more than enough power and engagement to satisfy most drivers (non enthusiast) It's a fantastic car and I will get one eventually but it will be lightly used S most likely. :2cents:

Just opinion, the #1 reason is "because 911" call it history, mystique, marketing, hype, whatever, it's a big factor. I also agree the 2+2 configuration is significant. Not just for the little jump seats, but the feeling of space. Even though the front of the cabin dimensions are essentially the same- same seats, center stack etc. When I went from a 997 C2S to a 987 Cayman 2.9, the feeling of space between the two was the most noticeable thing initially. Some like the bigger feel of the 911.

Thanks, all. These are some thoughtful and helpful responses. It has affirmed my belief that you buy a 911 because you want a 911, and all that goes with it in terms of history and pride. I will test drive one so that I know I have, although I cannot believe that it will feel better than a Cayman. I have about 18 months to figure out whether I need or want to stay with the Porsche tribe and if that is worth the extra money. I do know that I will not drive a 4 cylinder anything as my fun and cruising car. Larry

Here are a couple interesting articles pertinent to this discussion C&D Boxster GTS Instrumented test C&D 911 4S Instrumented test Both tested cars had PDK so it seems like a fair comparison. The 911 4S is only 1/10 second faster on both the 0-60 and the rolling start 5-60 than the BGTS. On the Skidpad both are the same at 1.05g. The difference in prices for the models tested is $45k. That is a major premium for only 0.1s. Clearly more than performance, I agree that it is 911 brand recognition and status. It is interesting to note that the performance statistics of the BGTS are far better than those advertised by Porsche, but the 911 4S didn't meet the advertised performance of 0-60 at 3.9s. I'm still breaking in my BGTS, but I'm eager to see if the performance C&D measured is representative or just an outlier.

People buy the 911 so that no one will tell them that they have the "cheap" Porsche.

Exactly! Larry

At $12k per seat you should get more room.

You left out two things. 0 - 100 that difference is nearly a second, 0 -130 its almost 2 seconds. And AWD is slower Try 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - Porsche 911 Carrera S Road Test with Specs, Data Panel – RoadandTrack.com 0 - 60 in 3.5, 1/4 in 11.8, 981GTS 12.6 Also 3.5 here Porsche 911 Carrera S (991) lap times and specs - FastestLaps.com 1/4 in 11.9 at 118MPH And of course the ring times are far off 7.38 vs 7:58 for an S (no established GTS time). You must realize the 991 folks look up the same articles and did that 4 years ago. And its nots a 45K difference. You spec PDDC, SPASM, PDK, PTV (not sure if PCCB specced). Thats it. Your looking at a $112K car MSRP. The press cars are loaded with the performance builds won't buy. Just saying. Statistics ... hmm.

But you know what? For the base Carrera, for 98% of the people its the logo and 2+2. And since they base Carrera easily outsells the Cayman S (and probably the S and GTS combined) the public seems to agree.

But seriously, what does the public really know?

I'll buy that 911 because its 1 second faster to 100 than the cayman and a whole TWO seconds faster to 130 <flapflapflap> </sarcasm>

You are asking the wrong question _ Why ii worth $25,000? - Because they can and people pay it. The correct question is - Is it worth $25,000

It's a 911 and it has back seats. That's about it. Both are great cars so choose wisely.

It's not quite that simple. If you compare both cars with the 3.4 engine (S to non-S) it is not $25000 difference (although some options cost more in the 911). There is the navigation system. Even if you compare both with the 3.4l engine you will have the throttle at the highest rpms which gives the smaller car a lesser horsepower rating. The rear seat can be very important in the absence of a long trunk. Think about transporting a suitcase or a bass guitar. The longer car is substantially more expensive to keep light, which is one reason why the 2 seats cost so much. The rear wall directly behind the front seats feel very different to many non sports car fans.

The 991 is more stable at high speed and the ride is better than the 981. Not everyone want a sport car and the 991 base is great GT car. Numbers don't tell the whole story here and after driving them there is a difference in handling characteristics and ride quality. For long trips the 981 stays home and the 991 takes the road. Also visibility in the 991 is better and exhaust/ engine noise is also better.

No one has mentioned the obvious. The 911 is rear engine , rear wheel drive. It handles and feels differently, and has its own merits based on this configuration. I hope to own one at some point, just to appreciate that set up.

The correct question is - Is it worth $25,000 Absolutely, otherwise Porsche lots would be full of unsold 911s. The value of anything, be it a car, house, diamond, etc, is determined by what people are willing to pay for it, and as chow4us pointed out the base 911 far outsells the Cayman.

Changing the question moves it away from the idea of trying to understand WHY people pay that premium. The fact that people do is not in dispute. Looking at all the easily measurable (and possibly "objective") items, the cars seem very similar and the price difference seems large. Others have pointed out things like the logo or experience, which are the hard to measure items, and these seem to be more responsible for the price difference because the measurable items don't seem to explain it. In my mind, a good part of the price difference is for some people to react in a particular way to the "aura" of a 911, and so react to the owner/driver. A lot has been spent, and continues to be spent, to get people to react that way. And that spending has to come from somewhere. Don't get me wrong, there is also spending for people to respond to the "aura" of a Porsche, which is ok with me. :beer:

I must disagree, you only have to take a summer road trip in a Boxster with a performance exhaust to know that they sound wonderful have 2 trunks and awesome visibility! #4 is on the way... Agreed. people do pay the premium, no dispute there. What I find interesting is how many people think all Boxsters or Caymans a 'inexpensive' all on their own (not comparing to the 911 now), even guys with older 911's in the club think they are inexpensive, one guy thought my 2013 BS was about $65k, heck my base 2006 Boxster was $71k, the 2013 BS comfortably over $100K and lets not mention the 2016 BGTS it is way more then the first 2 houses I owned! I get the whole 911 thing, but for me it is simply not the car for me (premium or not) and I certainly didn't buy a Porsche to impress those on the street or my local club either. Why then, see my response to DrJoe above!

Agreed. people do pay the premium, no dispute there. What I find interesting is how many people think all Boxsters or Caymans a 'inexpensive' all on their own (not comparing to the 911 now), even guys with older 911's in the club think they are inexpensive, one guy thought my 2013 BS was about $65k, heck my base 2006 Boxster was $71k, the 2013 BS comfortably over $100K and lets not mention the 2016 BGTS it is way more then the first 2 houses I owned! As a very long time 911 owner and first time owner of a 981BS, I find it amusing when an owner of a used 911 talks disparagingly about cheap Boxsters and Caymans. Even late model used 991s can easily be purchased at a price below that of a new 981S, and of course there are hundreds of used 911s that can be purchased for under $60K. Moreover, the base sticker for a 991 is $84,300 and a GT4 is $84,600 which understates the true difference since anyone can get a 5%+ discount on the 991 when I doubt that anyone will get a discount on the GT4.

Here's a naive question, but I really don't know: don't you get more legroom or room to recline in a 991? The seats are the same but that firewall isn't there and I tend to back the seat up to it in my Boxster. In fact the extra inch in the 981 over the 987 was a factor for me.

The OP asks if the difference between the 981 and 991 is worth $25K. I think, with all of these cars, the difference is subjective. Using that same reasoning, is the Boxster worth more than a Miata or any other car with similar performance curves? A 167 HP Miata has similar performance of a 325 HP Cayman. I suppose it depends upon how much you are willing to stretch the definition of "similar". Nothing wrong with the Miata, especially at the price point, but there's no way that I would feel comfortable driving a tiny 2500 lb Miata in my area with all of the 5K lb+ SUVs being driven by people focused on their cell phone conversations and not the road. The 981 is about as small a car as I dare drive in my area.

Yes. And you can recline the seat. I'm essentially at a fixed position in the 987.

After reading this thread, I'm convinced: in eight years or so when I can pick up a 2014ish 991 with PDK/ACC for "cheap", I'm going to sell the 914. The 981 will be the fun car, the 991 the long-distance commuter and trip car. We'll see...

^^ I had a 986 and find it had less seat adjustment then the 987, the 981 seems to have even more adjustment then the previous model, so far back that I can't even reach the pedals (I am 5'10")... head room seem better too. The same sport plus seats are available in the 991. As for the badge, never bought it for that, in fact I field more disdain from other non-Porsche people because of it, which can be a bad thing (think vandals or jealous people).