718 vs 718S - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I had a 68 plate Boxster S the other day when I had the recall work on my Cayman. I did have one as a loan car for a few months before mine was delivered, too. The brakes felt better and the pick up was too, although I find using the sport or sport plus on the base models goes some way to resolve that. Not really sure I felt much difference in speed. Did find the exhaust note completely different to the base model. Sounded a lot more hollow. Might be that the extra bit of metal under the hood knocks back some engine sound from the boxster over the cayman though. This one had a completely base spec interior, plastic dash and basic manual seats. Have to say I really disliked this. Just felt a bit dark and cheap plus the seats were quite uncomfortable compared to 18 ways. It did have the LED headlights, didn’t feel they were much better than the bi-Xenons tbh.

Have tried both and the S feels a tad faster but not worth 10K IMHO.

That was pretty much my thoughts on driving them both. Seemed better to put that money into options.

Of course the basic 718 is only pdk just now so thats a further 2k difference. Base price for the S is for manual. Also a more limited choice of metalic colours on the non S. Graphite blue, which I like, no longer available

I’d have any 981 over any of these Porsche Golf Rs....the driving experience, for a driver, is simply on a different level. The residuals would appear to confirm this.

Jazzer said: I’d have any 981 over any of these Porsche Golf Rs....the driving experience, for a driver, is simply on a different level. The residuals would appear to confirm this. nice to see the 981 bulls tters are still alive and well. Go pedal your usual horses t in someone else’s thread. Residuals lol, yes I’ve lost so much money on it I’ll never be able to afford another car. enjoy your prehistoric pos.

jimbo761 said: <snip> No need to change then, I’ll keep mine. I love it ! I recently changed my base '17 718 Cayman for a GT4. The GT4, well it's a GT4, what's not to like? But in almost all ways the base 718 was a much more sensible daily driver. Felt torquier in the low mid range, 18" tyres and PASM were more compliant, quiet and comfortable for general getting about. I loved the standard seats (although the carbon buckets in the GT4 are just as comfortable for me). And I didn't have to worry about what I was going to catch with the splitter. 18" winter tyres were available and worked well in the snow. Oh, and fuel. What was 34-35 mpg getting around locally and going to work is now 23-24 mpg. I have zero regrets about changing, it was the right decision for me, evn though it was an expensive one. I never expected to be able to own and enjoy anything that performs and sounds like the GT4, but the base 718 Cayman is one hell of a good car - I even liked the sound! Liam

jimbo761 said: nice to see the 981 bulls tters are still alive and well. Go pedal your usual horses t in someone else’s thread. Residuals lol, yes I’ve lost so much money on it I’ll never be able to afford another car. enjoy your prehistoric pos. Very aggressive, very touchy, I must have struck a chord! Do you go to any of the meetings or do any track days? It would be nice to chat face-to-face.

The loan car I had didn’t have PASM. I was generally on smooth roads so didn’t really notice any ride quality difference. I did find the steering much lighter feeling than my PASM equipped car. I’m assuming that’s down to the drop in height? The SPASM equipped car felt even tauter through the wheel. Of course this was increased in either by activating the former suspension, but I’ve found SPASM in the comfort mode to be the sweet spot for me in terms of steering wheel input and ride.

jimbo761 said: Jazzer said: I’d have any 981 over any of these Porsche Golf Rs....the driving experience, for a driver, is simply on a different level. The residuals would appear to confirm this. nice to see the 981 bulls tters are still alive and well. Go pedal your usual horses t in someone else’s thread. Residuals lol, yes I’ve lost so much money on it I’ll never be able to afford another car. enjoy your prehistoric pos. 'prehistoric pos' from someone who bought a car with 33% fewer cylinders and 40% less engine capacity for MORE money than the outgoing model. Rrrriiiiigggghhhttttt......

IMO the PDK transmission very effective at bridging the power gap between base and S models. On the other hand, if you prefer to stir the gears yourself the S has greater flexibility in each gear. When you drive a 6-speed manual you often want to change 2 or 3 gears at a time rather than using all of them.

Looks like it doesn’t take long for a couple of bellends to turn up on a 718 thread. Edited by Pinball on Sunday 11th November 14:20

Pinball said: Looks like it doesn’t take long for a couple of bellends to turn up on a 718 thread. Edited by Pinball on Sunday 11th November 14:20 You’re here, who’s the other one?

Jazzer said: You’re here, who’s the other one? When has Pinball ever said anything disparaging about 981’s? You on the other hand are happy to troll any 718 thread and come across as a proper t t.

Jazzer said: You’re here, who’s the other one? Erm let me think Jazzer, neither are Pinball from what I’ve seen. You join a thread about the 718 and compare it to a Golf R hatchback ? Now I’ve nothing against the common criminal’s preferred weapon of choice. But comparing a hatchback with a fine mid engined sports car really dents your credibility, no matter where you stand in the F4 vs F6 debate.

A tongue-in-cheek remark, taken literally by someone like you, hardly dents my credibility. Another 718 keyboard warrior.....yawn!

Jazzer said: A tongue-in-cheek remark, taken literally by someone like you, hardly dents my credibility. Another 718 keyboard warrior.....yawn! seem to be a few more F6 keyboard warriors on here to me, but we all know you can’t resist having the last word eh Jazz man ?

Schmed said: seem to be a few more F6 keyboard warriors on here to me, but we all know you can’t resist having the last word eh Jazz man ? He's an annoying troll that adds nothing of value to threads like this. We can only hope he gets banned or sells his porsche (if he even has one) and goes off to irritate some other forum

Interesting how touchy some people are. Also interesting is how the word ‘troll ‘ is now used to refer to a person whose opinion you don’t share. I’m off to drive my imaginary Porsche (normally aspirated). Meanwhile, you should stick to the topic!!

So back on topic... I’ve a base Cayman, but had a few issues when recieving mine, so lived with a Cayman S and a Boxster GTS for a while. I preferred the base engine in some ways. The noise for one. With PSE sounds less droney. But also feels like it revs harder/higher in the rev range. Just a bit sweeter. Third is just great at the top end. Admittedly feels more on/off boost low down though. I picked up on the brakes too. Preferred the intial fee of the pedall. That said I just had a civic typeR for the weekend and the brake feel on that, dare I say it, put the Porsche’s to shame! I’m with you. I’m not sure where to go next for the same money. I’m may ditch the porka as a daily, and invest in a weekend weapon. And a cheap daily with all the tech, and mod cons. And that’s what’s so great about the 718 as an all rounder.

Jazzer said: Interesting how touchy some people are. Also interesting is how the word ‘troll ‘ is now used to refer to a person whose opinion you don’t share. I’m off to drive my imaginary Porsche (normally aspirated). Meanwhile, you should stick to the topic!! The thread was on topic until you waded in to give an opinion that nobody asked for and was irrelevant (although Jimbo's reply was a little OTT). It was clearly a thread for current or potential 718 owners discussing experiences between two models but you just couldn't help yourself, as usual. I've no idea why can't grasp the fact that some people have different preferences and make different choices to you.

One thing I noticed on the brand new 718 Boxster courtesy car I had some months ago was the incredibly hard and "jiggly" suspension. I contacted the OPC later to suggest they'd left the transit blocks in, but they confirmed they hadn't. I guess there's no difference between the 718 & 718S in this respect? Certainly when testing several 981 Caymans in 2015 I found the standard suspension fine and better than my Mag ride TTS, but the 718 Boxster's set up was something I couldn't live with. Are the suspension upgrades the same in both 718 and 718S? I advise anyone buying either to check out the options fully.

^^^ I find the suspension absolutely fine on the standard car.

DJMC said: One thing I noticed on the brand new 718 Boxster courtesy car I had some months ago was the incredibly hard and "jiggly" suspension. I contacted the OPC later to suggest they'd left the transit blocks in, but they confirmed they hadn't. I guess there's no difference between the 718 & 718S in this respect? Certainly when testing several 981 Caymans in 2015 I found the standard suspension fine and better than my Mag ride TTS, but the 718 Boxster's set up was something I couldn't live with. Are the suspension upgrades the same in both 718 and 718S? I advise anyone buying either to check out the options fully. I tried a 718 on standard suspension and 20" wheels too. Like you I found it unacceptably hard. PASM on the 981 does rather spoil you. Having tried a 981 on standard suspension and 20" wheels I'd definitiely agree that the 718 is noticeably harder - and puts it over the edge of acceptability.

bcr5784 said: I tried a 718 on standard suspension and 20" wheels too. Like you I found it unacceptably hard. PASM on the 981 does rather spoil you. Having tried a 981 on standard suspension and 20" wheels I'd definitiely agree that the 718 is noticeably harder - and puts it over the edge of acceptability. This is something that concerned me when I bought the car, and one of the reasons for speccing it on 18"s. However having actually tried the 20"s without PASM I have to say for me it is actually fine, although firm. Perhaps the 718 PASM on comfort setting is softer ?

bcr5784 said: I tried a 718 on standard suspension and 20" wheels too. Like you I found it unacceptably hard. PASM on the 981 does rather spoil you. Having tried a 981 on standard suspension and 20" wheels I'd definitiely agree that the 718 is noticeably harder - and puts it over the edge of acceptability. I have 20" wheels and with PASM set to normal (which it is in either normal or sport modes) I find the ride in 718 fine. It is firm though. The sport PASM setting is way too hard for the road IMO and the reason I never use sport plus.

jimbo761 said: bcr5784 said: I tried a 718 on standard suspension and 20" wheels too. Like you I found it unacceptably hard. PASM on the 981 does rather spoil you. Having tried a 981 on standard suspension and 20" wheels I'd definitiely agree that the 718 is noticeably harder - and puts it over the edge of acceptability. This is something that concerned me when I bought the car, and one of the reasons for speccing it on 18"s. However having actually tried the 20"s without PASM I have to say for me it is actually fine, although firm. Perhaps the 718 PASM on comfort setting is softer ? I’ve had several 718 loan cars over the past couple of years, mostly on 20” wheels with PASM and to be honest I don’t notice any significant difference in ride quality with them compared to our PASM equipped 981 BGTS, both superb, - proves a first rate sports car doesn’t need bone jarring ride if properly sorted to start with. Edited by dreamcar on Monday 12th November 16:05

jimbo761 said: This is something that concerned me when I bought the car, and one of the reasons for speccing it on 18"s. However having actually tried the 20"s without PASM I have to say for me it is actually fine, although firm. Perhaps the 718 PASM on comfort setting is softer ? Ah, you just reminded me... when I tested one of the first press 718S cars, it came with PASM and also a factory technician. I noticed that PASM was harder in comfort mode than it is in my 981 and so asked the technician about it. He replied that the 718 suspension was firmer whether standard or PASM and that would account for the difference I'd noted. At that point I found the 718S PASM acceptable but didn't drive a standard suspension 718 back then to compare. That'll be the answer to my own query then!

dreamcar said: I’ve had several 718 loan cars over the past couple of years ..... and to be honest I don’t notice any significant difference in ride quality with them compared to our.... 981 ^^^ This has been exactly my experience as well.

130R said: have 20" wheels and with PASM set to normal (which it is in either normal or sport modes) I find the ride in 718 fine. It is firm though. The sport PASM setting is way too hard for the road IMO and the reason I never use sport plus. Same here. 20s on PASM is superb ride quality. But sport is useless unless your on a smooth surface. On track it’s great though! Either way I think pasm is superb if you like your wheels big! Edited by Ollie1977 on Monday 12th November 19:55

Ollie1977 said: Same here. 20s on PASM is superb ride quality. But sport is useless unless your on a smooth surface. On track it’s great though! Either way I think pasm is superb if you like your wheels big! Edited by Ollie1977 on Monday 12th November 19:55 PASM Sport & 20s is fine on my 981 but just that little too firm on the 718, as the factory technician's answer suggests.

We, or at least the wife went from a base 981 2.7 to a 718S this May. This isn't a rant about engines as they are both a bit loud for me (have to take aids out of ears for comfort). Must admit the new S is much more what I imagined a Cayman to be, acceleration in the 981 was OK but wasn't what we had expected. Previously there had been a Mazda3 MPS with 260 hp & iffy handling and still have a 7 for the Beacons. The 981 wasn't a leap forward, better handling than the MPS, yes, but not a quantum jump in performance. The 718S does seem a leap up in performance and does pin you back in the seat. The handling is spot on an I think an improvement on the 981. The only bits that are annoying are the Carerra Wheels which get curbed at the drop of a hat, they seem to protrude beyond the tyres and the leather seats. As the OP said cold in winter hot in summer and slide around in both. The previous TT was much better with alcantara inserts. What sold it to her - the 981 was battleship grey (she ignored my advice for dog knob red), she regretted this and the 718s was electric blue. Salesman tried to explain all the features but colour won out, hmm...

Bone Rat said: The only bits that are annoying are the Carerra Wheels which get curbed at the drop of a hat........ If you are referring to the Carrera Sport wheels, it is because they are wider than all the other wheels (8.5J - 10.5J IIRC). If/when you refurb your wheels, replace the tyres with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S which are now standard fitment on US 718's. The Pirelli N1 are simply not wide enough but the same size e.g. 265 in Michelin offer a degree of rim protection. Apparently they also eliminate judder and crabbing at low speed on full lock, however most of the issues I was having with my car suffering from this have gone after my OPC did a full geo check and apparently it was way out.

Blink982 said: Bone Rat said: The only bits that are annoying are the Carerra Wheels which get curbed at the drop of a hat........ If you are referring to the Carrera Sport wheels, it is because they are wider than all the other wheels (8.5J - 10.5J IIRC). If/when you refurb your wheels, replace the tyres with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S which are now standard fitment on US 718's. The Pirelli N1 are simply not wide enough but the same size e.g. 265 in Michelin offer a degree of rim protection. Apparently they also eliminate judder and crabbing at low speed on full lock, however most of the issues I was having with my car suffering from this have gone after my OPC did a full geo check and apparently it was way out. Thanks for the advice! On second repair already. They'll need replacing before long so will change from the Pirelli. Suspect the real reason is that someone seems to have the visio-spatial skills of Big Bird at the moment - "it's the hormones, you don't understand..."

My son looked at a private sale newish BMW with one slightly kerbed diamond cut alloy. BMW dealer said they won't repair these any more and replacement was the only option. Guess it's because material has to be removed? For this reason I'd stay away from diamond cut altogether. Change to another style/finish maybe?

DJMC said: My son looked at a private sale newish BMW with one slightly kerbed diamond cut alloy. BMW dealer said they won't repair these any more and replacement was the only option. Guess it's because material has to be removed? For this reason I'd stay away from diamond cut altogether. Change to another style/finish maybe? Yup these were the Carrera S wheels which I think are diamond cut, came on it as it was ex-demo car. the local refurbisher (Renowheel in Bridgend) did an excellent job on them. I think they've been smoothed, filled and touched in so you can't see the difference. That's good enough for us as it's a daily drive car not a weekend toy and will be kept for years. Had the same experience when I bought my demo m240i, dealer offered 2, was very keen on the one with the expensive, bigger cut wheels and a bit miffed when I explained that the option of smaller painted wheels was the clincher to buying - "But, but these are bigger...."

Carrera S are painted, Carrera Sport or Classic are diamond cut.

DJMC said: PASM Sport & 20s is fine on my 981 but just that little too firm on the 718, as the factory technician's answer suggests. Sorry I wasn’t clear. Mines not sport PASM. I mean when you select sport setting, the ride is too firm in my opinion (on Carrera S wheels) unless the road is ultra smooth.

Ollie1977 said: DJMC said: PASM Sport & 20s is fine on my 981 but just that little too firm on the 718, as the factory technician's answer suggests. Sorry I wasn’t clear. Mines not sport PASM. I mean when you select sport setting, the ride is too firm in my opinion (on Carrera S wheels) unless the road is ultra smooth. For me PASM sport is too firm on the 981 BGTS too - at least on our rutted and broken roads

Interesting, I have a 718 with 20s on standard suspension and reckon it’s just fine. A little jiggly at times but not uncomfortable. I guess it just shows we all have different expectations.

Suspension is very subjective. I have a 981 CGTS and use the Sport PASM setting a lot, unless I'm just pottering around. My wife has a Mk3 Focus RS and loves the suspension at all times, which has lowered Mountune springs, whereas I find it overly firm and crashy. Each to their own!

JonA65 said: Interesting, I have a 718 with 20s on standard suspension and reckon it’s just fine. A little jiggly at times but not uncomfortable. I guess it just shows we all have different expectations. I felt the same about the 981 standard suspension. Fine. I even put a deposit down on one, but a Peugeot driver crashed into it on the way to its 111 point check so I dropped it. But when I happened on one with PASM it was immediately a "must have" as it's sublime in comparison. But then I'm getting old!

DJMC said: I felt the same about the 981 standard suspension. Fine. I even put a deposit down on one, but a Peugeot driver crashed into it on the way to its 111 point check so I dropped it. But when I happened on one with PASM it was immediately a "must have" as it's sublime in comparison. But then I'm getting old! Must have for me - spoils you for everything else. Even the Alpine A110 is much more jiggly than the 981 was (in Normal with 19" wheels) at low speed (and nearly everyone raves about how compliant the A110 is).

Interesting that I am currently in a loan 718 Cayman with 20” wheels and no PASM and finding the ride not too firm at all...

At the risk of going off topic, looks great in Guards Red, but I don’t like the optional gloss black rear spoiler one bit.

dreamcar said: Interesting that I am currently in a loan 718 Cayman with 20” wheels and no PASM and finding the ride not too firm at all... I suppose it depends where you live - we have some of the worst roads in the country and a 718 on 20" wheels (no PASM) would be a complete non starter for me. I am a firm believe in the Colin Chapman ethos of adding lightness AND softness.

bcr5784 said: I suppose it depends where you live - we have some of the worst roads in the country and a 718 on 20" wheels (no PASM) would be a complete non starter for me. I am a firm believe in the Colin Chapman ethos of adding lightness AND softness. I agree wholeheartedly- I would also never buy a Porsche without PASM - although I have no experience of the latest -20mm sport PASM but I suspect that option would also be too firm for my likes. Taking the hard-core sports cars such as Lotis aside, I think Porsche do a pretty good job of keeping weight down and suspension comfortable, they have the compromise well sorted. Modern mass produced cars can’t be featherlight with the stringent safety rules. I’m quite happy to have a slightly heavier car to have good accident protection

dreamcar said: I agree wholeheartedly- I would also never buy a Porsche without PASM - although I have no experience of the latest -20mm sport PASM but I suspect that option would also be too firm for my likes. Taking the hard-core sports cars such as Lotis aside, I think Porsche do a pretty good job of keeping weight down and suspension comfortable, they have the compromise well sorted. Modern mass produced cars can’t be featherlight with the stringent safety rules. I’m quite happy to have a slightly heavier car to have good accident protection Not sure about the weight bit - the Alpine A110 is about 350kg lighter than a PDK Cayman and certainly isn't in the slightest hardcore. The fact that BMW or Merc options are even heavier suggests that all of them have lost their way when it comes to weight control.

DJMC said: I felt the same about the 981 standard suspension. Fine. I even put a deposit down on one, but a Peugeot driver crashed into it on the way to its 111 point check so I dropped it. But when I happened on one with PASM it was immediately a "must have" as it's sublime in comparison. But then I'm getting old! I agree. PASM is one of the best options. It makes the ride compliant yet doesn’t compromise cornering. No jiggling on the straights. Controlled dampening on the bumpy stuff. Flat in the corners. And even flatter in sport (but more unsettled on the bumpy bends)

dreamcar said: I agree wholeheartedly- I would also never buy a Porsche without PASM - although I have no experience of the latest -20mm sport PASM but I suspect that option would also be too firm for my likes. i had a loaner 718S with PASM but wouldn't swap for X73 in either mode. occasionally the sports chassis is a bit too firm but for the majority of the time i really like it. SPASM could be a different story though.

Not sure I'm reading this right, but under WLTM the latest emission stats given on the Porsche site are lower for the PDK S than the base (167 vs 180). Surely this can't be right? So £515 first year tax on the S vs £830 (!!!) on the base. Ouch.

Schmed said: Not sure I'm reading this right, but under WLTM the latest emission stats given on the Porsche site are lower for the PDK S than the base (167 vs 180). Surely this can't be right? So £515 first year tax on the S vs £830 (!!!) on the base. Ouch. PDK has always been lower emmisions, it was the same for the older models both emmisions and first year, tax is then £450 for the next 5 years Edited by tedblog on Friday 30th November 19:26

anonymous said: [redacted] Odd then, they still have the S on the site, especially as they’ve removed the base manual.

I noticed Graphite Blue had gone too.

dreamcar said: At the risk of going off topic, looks great in Guards Red, but I don’t like the optional gloss black rear spoiler one bit. Thank you for going off topic; GR looks very orange to me in this picture. Does it look red in real life? I do want to spec it, but am hesitant now..

Nerdherder said: Thank you for going off topic; GR looks very orange to me in this picture. Does it look red in real life? I do want to spec it, but am hesitant now.. Guards is one of those shades that can look very different in photographs depending on the light - all I can suggest is visit a dealer that has a guards car in stock and decide for yourself.

Nerdherder said: dreamcar said: At the risk of going off topic, looks great in Guards Red, but I don’t like the optional gloss black rear spoiler one bit. Thank you for going off topic; GR looks very orange to me in this picture. Does it look red in real life? I do want to spec it, but am hesitant now.. Guards red bright in the flesh some photos make it dull. Here is mine on pick up day. I love the colour.

Nerdherder said: Thank you for going off topic; GR looks very orange to me in this picture. Does it look red in real life? I do want to spec it, but am hesitant now.. I was all set to buy a GR 981 Cayman. Thought I'd phone my brother-in-law as I recalled he'd had GR on a 997. His response was "don't do it! I sold my 911 after a few weeks due to the number of people saying 'nice pink car'" He'd sold it at no loss as it was just after launch. Then bought a different colour 997. I couldn't see it but took his advice and looked for a different colour. Then, on visiting OPC Reading near dusk just before buying my Rhodium 981 I spotted a GR Cayman in their car park and it was absolutely 100% PINK.

ClubsportStr said: Nerdherder said: dreamcar said: At the risk of going off topic, looks great in Guards Red, but I don’t like the optional gloss black rear spoiler one bit. Thank you for going off topic; GR looks very orange to me in this picture. Does it look red in real life? I do want to spec it, but am hesitant now.. Guards red bright in the flesh some photos make it dull. Here is mine on pick up day. I love the colour. Confidence in GR restored! Thanks ClubsportStr. Will try to hunt one down for real live viewing as suggested. That might also confirm or debunk the pink remark. The right kind of pink might be fun on a sporty porka but that’s another debate alltogether. Ps to get things back on-topic: Always the S for me, sense of power is preferred with this gen but non-s is also fine (less so with previous generations). Prefer 19 inch wheels regardless of susp choice but standard is superb already. Burmester is another must for me, def worth it for any audio/music enthousiast. Colour is actually the biggest headache for me as you might have sensed.. Edited by Nerdherder on Monday 29th April 17:14 Edited by Nerdherder on Monday 29th April 17:17

bcr5784 said: I am a firm believe in the Colin Chapman ethos of adding lightness AND softness. I've been searching for this quote from him but only find this page here. I've always been told this by a friend but today decided to search for it and can't find it. Did he really talk about softness?

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 22 October 2023 at 11:17

The one I know about, and I don't know if the attribution is entirely correct, is: "Any suspension, no matter how poorly designed, can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." - Colin Chapman So kind of the same thing, but only kind of If you drive any Lotus from the era when he was directly involved the road cars, they were really compliant, and rolled quite a bit, but had exquisite suspension and steering geometry in the main. The first Boxster I drove was a base 718 when they first came out, and it really reminded me of 1960's and early 70's Lotuses for the suspension compliance, coupled with relatively unflappable steering on bumps and potholes. I was initially surprised how much it rolled when I first picked up the pace on a roundabout, but as soon as it hit a lumpy bit, I thought, "ah, like a Lotus." For some reason it was quite a relief not to be thinking, "ah, like an air-cooled 911." That was back in 2016. I'm now on my 2nd and 4th Caymans. For lumpy UK road use the base 718 with 18" wheels and PASM is unbeatable in my humble opinion, but somehow the 1st and 3rd were both that, and I no longer own either of them. Still, soon be wintery enough to put 18"s on the 4.0 GTS. Liam

LiamH66 said: "Any suspension, no matter how poorly designed, can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." - Colin Chapman Surely if you stop it from moving then you are stiffening it? I have down sized wheels and tyres on my 981 so now run 18 with smaller tyres than OE. It has the soft passive dampers too - no PASM. It is easily the softest car I have. This pic shows the tiny-ness of them the best.

It's a tongue in cheek statement. Stiffening suspension gives an illusion of improving bad geometry control, because any lack of control (e.g. bump steer) is minimised by the lack of movement. Hence "no matter how poorly designed". It really is an illusion, because suspension that's too stiff stops being suspension, and doesn't allow the wheels to follow the contours and bumps of the surface, so unless the track is really smooth, reduces overall grip. Chapman's suspension designs and specifications were clearly made in complete opposition to that comical adage, as they were anything but poorly designed. Liam