Conn Rods Again - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Apparently a batch of 4.0L engines require rectification, according to German forums. "Update from my PZ: - all 4.0L affected 19.01 - 04.03.2021 - Connecting rods do not meet the requirements of Porsche quality. - Can lead to engine damage. - Connecting rods have to be replaced, but they will only be available from week 20 onwards." Seems a Center engine replacement programme is planned? Anyone have better information?

Being discussed on the various other stop sale/ 718 4.0 threads. Urghhhh.... not great. But at least the batch is identified and there will be a resolution. Edited by TDT on Monday 22 March 17:50

You’ve pretty much got all the information there that’s been released. My GT4 is affected so just sitting in the showroom until the new rods are available. Hopefully it’s all sorted and the engines are strong once these are replaced. The wait is disappointing but I guess s**t happens.

I wonder who the manufacturer is ? Porsche will not make their own ...

ChrisW. said: I wonder who the manufacturer is ? Porsche will not make their own ... You would hope pankel in a gt4,probably Chinese. Even more worrying,who is going to replace them,a quality specialist! Not the first time with chocolate rods,993 and 964 comes to mind.

More penny pinching from Porsche. They need to take a leaf out of Ferrari's book in terms of quality of components they put in their engines. Read on Rennlist that the latest GT3/RS are prone to failure caused by over aggressive PDK gear changes. Sounds like the new solid valvetrain is causing a new set of problems as well as lash caps failing with catastrophic engine failures. Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 23 March 07:49

I wonder how accurately precise the dates are..... mine was built first week of Jan, bit too close for comfort

OPOGTS said: I wonder how accurately precise the dates are..... mine was built first week of Jan, bit too close for comfort They'll be able to track exact parts batches into production cars. I would expect Porsche to know exactly which engines are affected and where they are.

Twinfan said: They'll be able to track exact parts batches into production cars. I would expect Porsche to know exactly which engines are affected and where they are. Based on the incredible organisation I witnessed on a factory tour, I would be surprised if they can't trace the batch number of every significant item in every car.

minimalist said: Twinfan said: They'll be able to track exact parts batches into production cars. I would expect Porsche to know exactly which engines are affected and where they are. Based on the incredible organisation I witnessed on a factory tour, I would be surprised if they can't trace the batch number of every significant item in every car. Totally agree. The factory in action is incredible to watch!

Porsche completely replaced all 991.1 GT3 engines 2013 2014 including OPC engine swaps for delivered cars. The number of current 4.0 engines affected Caysters must be smaller if they intend rebuilding. Wouldn't really fancy an OPC stripping down and rebuilding my just delivered new cars engine. From memory a batch of early E46 M3s incl mine had a similar issue but the car was fine ran for a few years after no issues. Had a 997 C4S Cab which suffered from the dreaded piston slap at just less than 3years old 12k miles. OPC drafted in a Porsche 'master technician' to rebuild the engine at the time. Wonder where they will suddenly source all of these MTs required for all the 4.0 rebuilds....

Does anyone know if one would have the option of rejecting the car ? I would not be happy spending over £80k on a brand new car only to have its engine re-built. I have got a new Spyder coming in June so this is a relevant point for me as Porsche seem to be having a number of issues over last twelve months - it pains me to say this as I have been driving their cars for 35 years. My current 718 BGTS turbo has had to have both PADM units replaced in last three months and it appears new 911 and 781 are continuing to have PADM issue#.

I'm not sure you can reject it as Porsche are fixing the problem before you've bought it. You could not go ahead with the purchase but you may lose your deposit. You'd need to have a chat with your OPC if you're seriously not considering going ahead with the purchase. PADM issues are a pain as they're widespread but most likely covered under warranty in the first 3 years. After that you either tie yourself to the extended warranty or maintain a war chest for the inevitable failure(s). I'll be doing the latter.

WG said: Does anyone know if one would have the option of rejecting the car ? I would not be happy spending over £80k on a brand new car only to have its engine re-built. I have got a new Spyder coming in June ... Ordinarily it should be an option for you, but with the Spyder being so rare and sought after (allegedly OPCs are only getting max 2 all year) I think you have better options on that car than rejecting it. On topic, conrod issues are a bit of worry given failure = irreparable engine, and while I am sure this is just precautionary I'd be interested to know how they found the issue.

Not here to bash Porsche - I love them and have always hankered after one and still have one on my bucket list. But what is it with them and engine issues/failures - for a premium marque it's really quite unbelievable? I looked at and tested a few Cayman S models and really liked them but ultimately I went for an Evora due to the reliable mechanicals though I cannot lie that I am also a big Lotus fan which was perhaps the decisive tipping factor. I hope to have a Porsche model at some stage but the reputation for troublesome engines, usually only sorted for large sums of money, really is off putting.

OPOGTS said: I wonder how accurately precise the dates are..... mine was built first week of Jan, bit too close for comfort My car was built the first week in February and is not affected. My dealer hasn't had a single car affected and quotes "a limited number of cars". So unless you get the call, you should be alright.

Should of collected my gt4 this week. Got a call the other day from the opc to say my car is affected. And gonna be end of may at the VERY earliest. Offered a full refund of my deposit

Lotobear said: Not here to bash Porsche - I love them and have always hankered after one and still have one on my bucket list. But what is it with them and engine issues/failures - for a premium marque it's really quite unbelievable? I looked at and tested a few Cayman S models and really liked them but ultimately I went for an Evora due to the reliable mechanicals though I cannot lie that I am also a big Lotus fan which was perhaps the decisive tipping factor. I hope to have a Porsche model at some stage but the reputation for troublesome engines, usually only sorted for large sums of money, really is off putting. But if it's your perception of reliability that's putting you off why do you still want one? Please don't fall into the trap of internet folklore, there are plenty of satisfied owners worldwide, me included, but who wants to read boring stuff about trouble free motoring? Like most things in life - there are no guarantees.

L.Len said: Should of collected my gt4 this week. Got a call the other day from the opc to say my car is affected. And gonna be end of may at the VERY earliest. Offered a full refund of my deposit That is a horrible situation to be in, you've waited don't know how long to get the car and now it's taken away literally hours before collection. They offer you a full refund, what do you do take it and end up at the back of the queue again or accept a brand new car with a rebuilt engine or choose another make? Unless there's a decent offer involved like a big discount I don't think I'd want a new car with a rebuilt engine, I know they've been built already but that's not the point, only used cars should have their engines rebuilt, I'd want a brand new unit or not at all.

Crazy4557 said: L.Len said: Should of collected my gt4 this week. Got a call the other day from the opc to say my car is affected. And gonna be end of may at the VERY earliest. Offered a full refund of my deposit That is a horrible situation to be in, you've waited don't know how long to get the car and now it's taken away literally hours before collection. They offer you a full refund, what do you do take it and end up at the back of the queue again or accept a brand new car with a rebuilt engine or choose another make? Unless there's a decent offer involved like a big discount I don't think I'd want a new car with a rebuilt engine, I know they've been built already but that's not the point, only used cars should have their engines rebuilt, I'd want a brand new unit or not at all. But it is a brand new unit. It's just that some parts will have been changed before delivery has taken place. It might be a different story if Porsche were recalling used cars and replacing just the relevant parts without any extension to the warranty.

I am in a similar position. Cayman GTS 4.0 sitting in OPC but can't be released until conn rod problem fixed. Also somewhat concerned about buying a car which needs repair before it turns a wheel. I have to admit it somewhat detracts from the excitement of getting the car. Further complicated by the fact that I have sold my other car and I presume there will be no quick fix if we are talking Wk 20 at earliest. As yet no offers from OPC. They seem in the dark as well. Leaning towards moving on if they refunded deposit.

Same for me, not sure I want a rebuilt engine. Decide tomorrow

Herefordshire said: Same for me, not sure I want a rebuilt engine. Decide tomorrow If anybody is thinking about pulling out of a Spyder purchase because of this I could be willing to take it at list price depending on spec !

Is "week 20" week 20 of the model year production run (and so counting from c.September 2020 into early 2021) or week 20 of 2021 and so c.May 2021?

ClioTrophy55 said: Is "week 20" week 20 of the model year production run (and so counting from c.September 2020 into early 2021) or week 20 of 2021 and so c.May 2021? Week 20 of 2021.

Happened to me on my 991.1 GT3 which sat around for 3 months awaiting a new crated engine form Germany. And again on my 991.1 RS which needed a new PDK box after 2 weeks. Is this latest one solved with a new engine or is it the OPC's apprentice tech dismantling the lump to fit new rods?

The extended warranty after three years is still inexpensive ... it is an insurance product and includes all the concerns mentioned up to 15 years (and 125,000 miles ) ... but you are tied to OPC servicing. On a very high performance and expensive car, maybe this becomes a sensible option ... or assume that the insurance company is not going to lose money and take your chance ?? I agree that it is very disappointing ... but at least we aren't being asked to sign NDA's like many new home owners are where their homes require serious repair within the 2 year warranty ! When I bought my first new house the NHB warranty was 10 years ... what happened to that ? The danger is that because this news is so public, we all worry about potentially serious problems even if / when they are properly (if inconveniently) sorted ... Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 23 March 19:43

Called in my two OPCs today on another matter and spoke to both service managers who off the record reckon there is a strong possibility Porsche will fit new engines and not rebuild them. Hopefully this will prove to be the case for those affected otherwise if engines are rebuilt this could well result in a two tier market for these cars those with rebuilt engines being less desirable than those with original engines pre con rod issues.

Lonely said: But if it's your perception of reliability that's putting you off why do you still want one? Please don't fall into the trap of internet folklore, there are plenty of satisfied owners worldwide, me included, but who wants to read boring stuff about trouble free motoring? Like most things in life - there are no guarantees. It's a fair question and a good point but with a roughly 50:50 decision something will always tilt it and the prospect of a 8k engine rebuild, even if remote, was sufficient to swing me towards the Toyota engined Lotus. Reliability does not especially concern me with what is essentially a toy, however a potential big hit in the pocket does. I face that too with the Lotus in terms of the clutch of course (the Evora's bore score/IMS equivalent) but that's something I could and would tackle myself, a flat 6 rebuild not.

Cardiff told me it’s a number of vin numbers built between certain dates ie not everyone They are expecting to rebuild engines at the moment

GT3ZZZ said: Happened to me on my 991.1 GT3 which sat around for 3 months awaiting a new crated engine form Germany. And again on my 991.1 RS which needed a new PDK box after 2 weeks. Is this latest one solved with a new engine or is it the OPC's apprentice tech dismantling the lump to fit new rods? Porsche will have already lost face in this (especially after IMS issues and 991 GT3 engines as well) and will have spent a lot of money in rectifying it. They are not going to let just anyone rebuild these engines as the last thing they need would be another financial hit following a load of warranty claims on rebuilt engines in a couple of years. The rebuilt engines will be probably more thoroughly tested and inspected than the non-affected ones ...

Geoffscars said: Cardiff told me it’s a number of vin numbers built between certain dates ie not everyone They are expecting to rebuild engines at the moment Rebuild where? There are cars on ships, at port, at dealers and on the road. I’m hoping for a replacement, and may only accept that.

Just read that about 1000 cars affected. 200 in customers hands and 800 held at the factory. Thats going tto be expensive !

Evo9lution said: GT3ZZZ said: Happened to me on my 991.1 GT3 which sat around for 3 months awaiting a new crated engine form Germany. And again on my 991.1 RS which needed a new PDK box after 2 weeks. Is this latest one solved with a new engine or is it the OPC's apprentice tech dismantling the lump to fit new rods? Porsche will have already lost face in this (especially after IMS issues and 991 GT3 engines as well) and will have spent a lot of money in rectifying it. They are not going to let just anyone rebuild these engines as the last thing they need would be another financial hit following a load of warranty claims on rebuilt engines in a couple of years. The rebuilt engines will be probably more thoroughly tested and inspected than the non-affected ones ... I think your giving them too much credit.

Chamon_Lee said: I think your giving them too much credit. Yeah how can you thoroughly test an engine through the rev range unless sat on a rolling road for x amount of miles.

From the USA

Interesting that PCNA state they will EITHER replace the faulty connecting rods OR replace the engine. Wonder if the cars already delivered will actually have engine rebuilds.

Taffy66 said: More penny pinching from Porsche. They need to take a leaf out of Ferrari's book in terms of quality of components they put in their engines. Read on Rennlist that the latest GT3/RS are prone to failure caused by over aggressive PDK gear changes. Sounds like the new solid valvetrain is causing a new set of problems as well as lash caps failing with catastrophic engine failures. Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 23 March 07:49 Just looked through what I assume is the relevant thread on Rennlist.I ended up scanning through the last few pages but it seems like there are maybe a handful of cases ? Will be interesting to see if it really is a serious problem or what you would reasonably expect to see from a few thousand cars that have been sold in the US. We've not had anyone on here say they've had one or heard of one ? GT3's by their very nature have stressed engines. I know people say the Mezger engine was above these problems but I remember seeing a 4.0 RS parked round the back of my OPC waiting for a replacement engine following a failure....which so my OPC said wasn't unknown. As long as I have my GT3 I will be renewing my warranty that is for sure !

Obviously something has triggered Porsche into finding out that this batch of conrods has an issue? Moving forward all engines will have updated parts , lets hope their isnt an issue with parts prior to them finding out? Do you think that salesman really know and are just playing dumb? Edited by tedblog on Thursday 1st April 06:49

Cheib said: Taffy66 said: More penny pinching from Porsche. They need to take a leaf out of Ferrari's book in terms of quality of components they put in their engines. Read on Rennlist that the latest GT3/RS are prone to failure caused by over aggressive PDK gear changes. Sounds like the new solid valvetrain is causing a new set of problems as well as lash caps failing with catastrophic engine failures. Edited by Taffy66 on Tuesday 23 March 07:49 Just looked through what I assume is the relevant thread on Rennlist.I ended up scanning through the last few pages but it seems like there are maybe a handful of cases ? Will be interesting to see if it really is a serious problem or what you would reasonably expect to see from a few thousand cars that have been sold in the US. We've not had anyone on here say they've had one or heard of one ? GT3's by their very nature have stressed engines. I know people say the Mezger engine was above these problems but I remember seeing a 4.0 RS parked round the back of my OPC waiting for a replacement engine following a failure....which so my OPC said wasn't unknown. As long as I have my GT3 I will be renewing my warranty that is for sure ! Taff don't be disillusioned by ferrari, if they were driven as much and as hard as most gt3 that venture on track,there would Be plenty of chocolate parts.A friend repairs plenty of the fiats, and some of the engineering is shocking. I dont see any big issues on rennlist bar a couple,other factors to take into consideration Having been to a few tracks in the usa race and trackday where folk jump into cold engines and blister out of the pits, and high ambient temps on track ,track cars need quality track oil.

tedblog said: Obviously something has triggered Porsche into finding out that this batch of conrods has an issue? Moving forward all engines will have updated parts , lets hope their isnt an issue with parts prior to them finding out? Do you think that salesman really know and are just playing dumb? Edited by tedblog on Thursday 1st April 06:49 Agreed on this - wouldn’t be too happy if i’d already got a 4.0 That said I doubt Porsche tell the dealers much they never seem to have a clue! The disappointing thing is the crap comms and lack of identified solution being provided. Tell people the solution Porsche not just the problem...

tedblog said: Obviously something has triggered Porsche into finding out that this batch of conrods has an issue? Moving forward all engines will have updated parts , lets hope their isnt an issue with parts prior to them finding out? Do you think that salesman really know and are just playing dumb? Edited by tedblog on Thursday 1st April 06:49 I imagine the conrod manufacturer has found an issue with a batch and told porsche. Porsche have obviously decide it’s bad enough not to let let warranty deal with it. They track every part individually these days so quite easy to find affected cars.

Hope it's sorted soon, I've a slot for a GT4 and cannot wait to take delivery

arcamalpha said: I imagine the conrod manufacturer has found an issue with a batch and told porsche. Porsche have obviously decide it’s bad enough not to let let warranty deal with it. They track every part individually these days so quite easy to find affected cars. Exactly. Unfortunate, but not the same type of issue as say... 991.1 GT3

TDT said: Exactly. Unfortunate, but not the same type of issue as say... 991.1 GT3 Unsure if it hadn't been for the class action brought by Macca and Suni for us on PH and RL Porsche would have actually replaced all 991.1 GT3 engines and given a generous compensation package particularly for those of us with registered cars.

av185 said: TDT said: Exactly. Unfortunate, but not the same type of issue as say... 991.1 GT3 Unsure if it hadn't been for the class action brought by Macca and Suni for us on PH and RL Porsche would have actually replaced all 991.1 GT3 engines and given a generous compensation package particularly for those of us with registered cars. 991.1 issue was a design fault though. This is not a design fault - just a batch of parts that aren't up to spec. It's a different kind of issue affecting a few specific cars that received these parts - and then the best way to address is for these cars to just get new motors. Just like with 981 3rd Gear.... those cars just got new transmissions. It didn't create a 2-tier market or have any residual effect.

TDT said: av185 said: TDT said: Exactly. Unfortunate, but not the same type of issue as say... 991.1 GT3 Unsure if it hadn't been for the class action brought by Macca and Suni for us on PH and RL Porsche would have actually replaced all 991.1 GT3 engines and given a generous compensation package particularly for those of us with registered cars. 991.1 issue was a design fault though. This is not a design fault - just a batch of parts that aren't up to spec. It's a different kind of issue affecting a few specific cars that received these parts - and then the best way to address is for these cars to just get new motors. Just like with 981 3rd Gear.... those cars just got new transmissions. It didn't create a 2-tier market or have any residual effect. Yes I get that but it does seem odd that PCNA thus far have not specifically stated those cars affected will get new engines. My point was in relation to if Porsche decide to repair engines as opposed to replace them.

Surely they can’t repair them at OPCs. This isn’t a cam change or an oil seal - con rod swaps are more or less a complete engine rebuild. They might need balancing and possibly even matching to pistons if Porsche bothers with that too. Maybe Reading could do it, but not most of the others. Even those that have the skill probably don’t have the capacity. The only way I can see them doing rebuilds in the UK would be if they ship a few engines from Germany and then rotate the duff engines through Reading with repaired units being distributed and swapped out.

RichDS said: Agreed on this - wouldn’t be too happy if i’d already got a 4.0 My GTS 4.0 was built in September, should I be worried / unhappy then?

ChrisW. said: I wonder who the manufacturer is ? Porsche will not make their own ... The manufacturer is Hoeckle Austria GmbH

Richard718 said: My GTS 4.0 was built in September, should I be worried / unhappy then? You have nothing to worry about only affects cars built between the 19th of January 2021 and the 4th of March 2021

Post up here if your affected in the stop sale: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-spyder...

av185 said: Yes I get that but it does seem odd that PCNA thus far have not specifically stated those cars affected will get new engines. My point was in relation to if Porsche decide to repair engines as opposed to replace them. "PCNA also provided Porsche Club of America with an official statement about the recall: “The safety of anyone travelling in one of our cars is our highest priority. For this reason, we regularly conduct quality checks on our cars – both old and new. As part of this work a supplier has informed us that a batch of connecting rods did not meet the standards we expect had been fitted to a total of 190 cars – a mix of 718 Cayman GT4, 718 Spyder and 718 GTS 4.0 models. Of these cars, 20 have been delivered to customers, every one of whom has already been contacted and will be offered a temporary replacement car while the work is carried out. There are no known incidents associated with this issue, nevertheless we immediately contacted our affected customers and notified NHTSA upon learning of it. We will, out of an abundance of caution, be replacing the engines in the affected vehicles already delivered. Anyone concerned by this issue and who’s not been contacted in the next few days can be reassured that their car is unaffected.” Doesn't mention in-transit cars but one would assume they would also be an engine swap. Likely to start May 23rd in US

gtsralph said: av185 said: Yes I get that but it does seem odd that PCNA thus far have not specifically stated those cars affected will get new engines. My point was in relation to if Porsche decide to repair engines as opposed to replace them. "PCNA also provided Porsche Club of America with an official statement about the recall: “The safety of anyone travelling in one of our cars is our highest priority. For this reason, we regularly conduct quality checks on our cars – both old and new. As part of this work a supplier has informed us that a batch of connecting rods did not meet the standards we expect had been fitted to a total of 190 cars – a mix of 718 Cayman GT4, 718 Spyder and 718 GTS 4.0 models. Of these cars, 20 have been delivered to customers, every one of whom has already been contacted and will be offered a temporary replacement car while the work is carried out. There are no known incidents associated with this issue, nevertheless we immediately contacted our affected customers and notified NHTSA upon learning of it. We will, out of an abundance of caution, be replacing the engines in the affected vehicles already delivered. Anyone concerned by this issue and who’s not been contacted in the next few days can be reassured that their car is unaffected.” Doesn't mention in-transit cars but one would assume they would also be an engine swap. Likely to start May 23rd in US Interesting only 20 US cars affected have been delivered to customers and these rightly will be provided with loan cars hopefully something comparable. An amount ££ in respect of monthly 'depreciation' whilst the owners car is sitting around would slso be appropriate too like for the 991.1 GT3. Wonder if the Porsche dealers will fit the new engines.....it seems likely. Loan cars but no compensation should also be provided for customers with delayed orders again which is what was negotiated on the 991.1.

Has anyone impacted in the UK heard anything today? I was told by my sales person there would be more information today, but surprise surprise, haven’t heard anything!

Just imagine if this had happened to one of McLaren's cars, the internet would have melted by now but Porsche do it to both the 991.1GT3 and now the current GT4/Spyder/GTS and little is said. Why do we continue to accept the German manufacturers faults without any malice yet a British manufacturer gets ripped to pieces should they dare to step out of line.

Goldjono said: ChrisW. said: I wonder who the manufacturer is ? Porsche will not make their own ... The manufacturer is Hoeckle Austria GmbH Thanks !

Crazy4557 said: Just imagine if this had happened to one of McLaren's cars, the internet would have melted by now but Porsche do it to both the 991.1GT3 and now the current GT4/Spyder/GTS and little is said. Why do we continue to accept the German manufacturers faults without any malice yet a British manufacturer gets ripped to pieces should they dare to step out of line. No personal experience - just internet/media talk, but isn't it because Porsche have identified a potential problem and are currently putting it right, whereas McLaren have no customer relationship after they've sold a car?

My car is affected, no word from Porsche, paid in full around 19th March, car is just sitting in the dealer. No compensation, no loan car, pretty much silence. There’s roughly 1000 cars affected worldwide. The Americans are really lucky being offered everything and treated really well. I’m pretty pissed off, been loyal to Porsche for 20 years. I think things will work out ok eventually but meantime the silence is deafening.

Outrageous. They need to treat you as though you had taken delivery. So replacement car and compensation, promise of a new engine, and a plan with timescales. Or offer a full refund.

av185 said: BertBert said: Holgate86 said: av185 said: Porsche will scrap the old engines. +1 Despite the fact that they are rebuilding them to fix the problem? Only delivered cars not receiving new engines..... Since Porsche will be releasing a GT4 RS models, it would make sense to re use the engines that are being replaced.

av185 said: Only delivered cars not receiving new engines..... I'm intrigued as to why you think that Porsche will take the new engines with sub-standard rods and put them in the scrap metal bin? It certainly makes no sense to do that.

BertBert said: I'm intrigued as to why you think that Porsche will take the new engines with sub-standard rods and put them in the scrap metal bin? It certainly makes no sense to do that. The assembly line isn't geared up for rebuilds, where would they do it? Who would work on them? Or strip them for parts? They'd also have to update their records as to which car each individual part ended up within. It's much, much easier for them just to chuck them in the metal recycling container and write off the cost of the component loss.

But they must think it’s cheaper to rebuild, otherwise they wouldn’t be winding up their UK customers with only offering a rebuilt engine (or a bigger time penalty for a new engine)

Of course, but the OPCs would be doing the rebuilding at their premises where they have the space and facilities to do it. The German factories are assembly plants, that's all. An OPC rebuild is obviously the best and cheapest option for Porsche if customers accept it. If a customer chooses to have an engine replaced I'm almost certain that the original will be sent back to Stuttgart and scrapped.

Twinfan said: Of course, but the OPCs would be doing the rebuilding at their premises where they have the space and facilities to do it. The German factories are assembly plants, that's all. An OPC rebuild is obviously the best and cheapest option for Porsche if customers accept it. If a customer chooses to have an engine replaced I'm almost certain that the original will be sent back to Stuttgart and scrapped. I’d of thought it would save Porsche time and money to re use the engines, as it would be quicker to build the engines since the heads have been already built.

Has anyone made a decision to go ahead with a rebuilt engine or had the work started yet?

Not me, got another few weeks apparently before I need to decide, but no extended warranty like the rest of the world I’ll just wait for a new engine.

Twinfan said: The assembly line isn't geared up for rebuilds, where would they do it? Who would work on them? Or strip them for parts? They'd also have to update their records as to which car each individual part ended up within. Porsche will have the capability to do lots of things and I'm sure that'll include rebuilding engines, but I agree it won't be on the assembly lines. But hey ho, we're just guessing

BertBert said: Porsche will have the capability to do lots of things and I'm sure that'll include rebuilding engines, but I agree it won't be on the assembly lines. But hey ho, we're just guessing I agree, and would suggest 'lots of things' would include making a non rocket science plan to rectify these brand new engine issues in house, and re-issue them for fitment to other new cars as required.

Twinfan said: BertBert said: I'm intrigued as to why you think that Porsche will take the new engines with sub-standard rods and put them in the scrap metal bin? It certainly makes no sense to do that. The assembly line isn't geared up for rebuilds, where would they do it? Who would work on them? Or strip them for parts? They'd also have to update their records as to which car each individual part ended up within. It's much, much easier for them just to chuck them in the metal recycling container and write off the cost of the component loss. Fannying around taking the old engines to bits would just be too inefficient, they’ll end up in the scrap bin as TF says

BertBert said: Porsche will have the capability to do lots of things and I'm sure that'll include rebuilding engines, but I agree it won't be on the assembly lines. But hey ho, we're just guessing Indeed we're just guessing, but as I said in my previous post where do you think they could do the work if it's not in the engine assembly factory? And who would do it? They're just not prepared to do this kind of thing, hence they're most likely to be scrapped. This is why I suspect they'll push for a dealer rebuild in any markets they can as it's the cheapest and quickest option for both them and the car owners.

Pretty amazed over this whole con rod debacle, my engine imploded on Xmas eve 2006 (ims failed) It was recovered to OPC Colchester just after Xmas. Told I needed a new engine and I was back on the road early January ( I think it was about 2 weeks from failure to back on the road)! And the old engine went back to factory I believe to be rebuilt

The only time Porsche will strip defective engines is for research purposes. As previously said they will scrap the majority.

Mind major engine issues seem so common on Porsches that they’ll need a bloody big scrap bin......

You still have to trust Porsche and the OPC do as you’ve asked and fit a new engine , if you request a new one , and let’s be honest most people are going to take that option , it gives them plenty of time to get the engine out and rebuild at wherever they feel is best and stick it back in . Plenty of bodywork gets done on brand new cars and customers never get informed. Yes it’s a conspiracy theory but those engines could reappear , it’s a commercial decision Porsche will make .

av185 said: The only time Porsche will strip defective engines is for research purposes. As previously said they will scrap the majority. The engines aren’t defective though. They are absolutely fine, but Porsche can’t guarantee that the conrods won’t fail. With the right spec conrods the engines are no different to any other ones made before and after.

Uncle Dude said: It is shameful the way Porsche is treating the UK. I don’t blame anyone for walking away from their order and investing in a new brand - that’s what I’d do. Popped into the local Porsche place today and over here (Switzerland) cars are having engine swaps with a four-week turnaround (hardly any affected here and most already replaced). If the car was delivered to the OPC (or customer), the customer can use the car up until the time that the engine is swapped out. When the 991 GT3 had its engine issue, customers got CHF200 per day, up to a maximum of CHF35.5k, reimbursement for the trouble. Think similar daily rate possible for the GT4/Spyder/4.0 engine issue but likely a much lower cap (especially if there is a much shorter turnaround time). UK definitely is treated poorly. My dealer was shocked when I explained what UK customers get - or do not get ...

Those affected really need to organise a class action group for the UK to ensure a satisfactory result like we did for the 991.1 GT3. Would organise myself but my car is unaffected.

Is it anything Trading Standards would look at? Like I said earlier although I get on really well with my supplying dealer they are doing absolutely nothing for me and when I complained to Porsche GB they scathingly told me to f k off and check my contract as it’s an estimated delivery! I’ve had a lawyer look at the contract and there’s nothing obvious to go on, we are just treated like s t despite being the 4th largest Porsche market in the world! USA are getting all their engines replaced right now with 8 year warranties, personally I’ve already got a major lawsuit against the gov sheisters re my stolen pension and I’d struggle to afford another case, sorry rambling, do we have any protection whatsoever in the U.K. like USA Lemon Law???

johnycarrera said: Is it anything Trading Standards would look at? Like I said earlier although I get on really well with my supplying dealer they are doing absolutely nothing for me and when I complained to Porsche GB they scathingly told me to f k off and check my contract as it’s an estimated delivery! I’ve had a lawyer look at the contract and there’s nothing obvious to go on, we are just treated like s t despite being the 4th largest Porsche market in the world! USA are getting all their engines replaced right now with 8 year warranties, personally I’ve already got a major lawsuit against the gov sheisters re my stolen pension and I’d struggle to afford another case, sorry rambling, do we have any protection whatsoever in the U.K. like USA Lemon Law??? I understand that you’re not happy with Porsche, but you can’t sue because you feel like it. You have to of suffered a loss for you to have any chance in court. The US is very litigious as there laws allow it, so that is why Porsche US has offered the 8 year warranty.

Although I was absolutely gished when I typed that yesterday (no point in deleting it now) I don’t agree with you entirely, you can sue due to hurt feelings if you’ve been wronged in some way even in this country, we just don’t complain enough over here which is good and bad I guess. Certainly we are being treated very poorly in this situation compared to many other countries.

johnycarrera said: Although I was absolutely gished when I typed that yesterday (no point in deleting it now) I don’t agree with you entirely, you can sue due to hurt feelings if you’ve been wronged in some way even in this country, we just don’t complain enough over here which is good and bad I guess. Certainly we are being treated very poorly in this situation compared to many other countries. I don't think you can! I think there has to be a breach of contract or statute for any suing to go on. Then you have to have a loss.

BertBert said: I don't think you can! I think there has to be a breach of contract or statute for any suing to go on. Then you have to have a loss. I’m part of a class action suit just now for hurt and suffering due to bad advice. In Porsches contract the delivery time may be “estimated” but it would still have to be reasonable, they can’t just take all my money and not give me the car in what’s a reasonable time limit. I’m not saying that’s where we are going here, but so far we the actual buyers are not being treated very well compared to several other countries. There’s no harm in it bringing up these conversations.

All of this nonsense- just another reason that the 981 was peak Cayman!

I agree with Johny. There is loss here and it is significant. Most people buy a car like this for 1-3 years. You place an order with an estimated delivery and for some, they actually got a delivery date (their Porsche’s actually reached the showroom). In addition, a deposit had been paid. Anything over 2-3 month delay is a material impact on the normal expected ownership period of such a car. To have to wait up to a year for ‘re-delivery’ of the car cannot be considered acceptable without compensation. To be pressured to accept even a new engine (which regardless of what people may say, will leave a sense of upset and reduced trust for many owners), let alone a removed, stripped and ‘fixed’ engine which cannot be suggested to be equivalent to a brand new car. Yes, people can cancel, but frankly Porsche should be forced to offer expedited new builds for all those affected with cash compensation for any months of delay. If they can convince customers to accept a new engine, that compensation should be a great deal more and the clear nagging risk of future engine or engine replacement issues should either add more compensation or provide long term warranty enhancements. On top of this, there is stress, wasted time, a loss of positive emotion for the car (which clearly plays a bit part in such a purpose) which should be compensated for by any respective luxury manufacturer wanting to continue to be perceived that way. These cars are luxury and very expensive cars - the whole crazy Porsche experience relies on that sense of luxury - and that should play into any position around ‘fit for purpose’. If a car is being sold based on luxury and prestige, fit for purpose is not just limited to function. But with Porsche (and I’m sure most other luxury manufacturers), once money has been committed, you are treated no differently than all other run of the mill reasonably priced car manufacturers. Legally, I struggle to see how what has happened in the US can’t be considered as precedent. The issue is that no one on this side of pond has the time, money and belief in success to fight that battle and if they do, it would get sorted privately rather than as a group action. This is no different to the VW emotions payouts. In the UK, no one has had an acknowledgement of wrong doing, let alone received compensation. Sorry, yes, rambling, but this makes me so mad. Having got one of the first GTS4s and seen the impact this has had (not to mention speaking to a Spyder owner today who had his new car’s engine dropped to get the high pressure fuel line recall sorted) makes me fear my future ownership experience. That fear doesn’t come from something going wrong, rather Porsche’s lack of desire to do the right thing. That is not what we pay the best part of a 100k for. Paul

Time to move to Mclaren ??

hunter 66 said: Time to move to Mclaren ?? That is exactly what I’m contemplating at the moment. The less than lacklustre response from the company before they’ve even got (all of) my cash does make me worry about the experience from here…

johnycarrera said: I’m part of a class action suit just now for hurt and suffering due to bad advice. In Porsches contract the delivery time may be “estimated” but it would still have to be reasonable, they can’t just take all my money and not give me the car in what’s a reasonable time limit. I’m not saying that’s where we are going here, but so far we the actual buyers are not being treated very well compared to several other countries. There’s no harm in it bringing up these conversations. Johnny, have you taken advice from a solicitor? I think I’ve seen you say that you have paid for the car. It’s been a while since I studied commercial law, but in paying for your vehicle your dealer and you have entered a binding contract. The problem is that they have not supplied the goods within a reasonable time and to the requisite quality. You are covered under uk law - Consumer Rights Act 2015. This entitles you to various remedies and compensation. If you have purchased through a Porsche credit agreement, then your beef is with Porsche credit rather than the dealer and they are failing in their obligations to supply the car for which they need to compensate you with an equivalent and other remedies. I think the uk law will absolutely help you - the challenge may be it’s that the remedies available may not be what you want. E.g rescinding the contract, getting your money back - since you still want a car. You are in a strong position. For most reading this who have not paid for their car, their position is pretty weak, since the contract at this stage is covered by ‘estimated’ delivery timescales and only deposits. Maybe if a dealer refused to refund the deposit or something, there’d be a case.

Hi yes well, I put down a 50% deposit (max allowed) rest is Porsche finance, they’ve not actually taken any payments from me though even the contract was signed etc. They offered a refund, but yes I do want the car with a fair remedy. I just would like to know what their intentions are as at the moment it’s a rebuild starting week 24 or a replacement engine some time in 2022, both without any extended warranty and neither of those things seem fair compared to the rest of the world. I don’t want to have to sue or anything just want what’s fair I.e. decent timescale and extended warranty minimum! Car has gone through pdi on 19th March signed contract etc on 17th and was due to drive it home on 23rd March. I’m far from greedy just want them to be reasonable. A loan car would’ve been nice, I sold my car to them when I ordered the GT4 I said before the Americans new engines started arriving last week so I can’t see it being 2022 for mine, again I think I’m being misled there. I did get a lawyer to look at it but being my brother I don’t think he put much effort into the contract just confirmed the “estimated” delivery somewhat protected them. However I still think it all needs to be reasonable, I can’t see them giving the rest of the world 8 years then giving it F U to the U.K., the 991.1 GT3 guys eventually all got the 10 year warranties Now I’m rambling!

johnycarrera said: I’m part of a class action suit just now for hurt and suffering due to bad advice. In Porsches contract the delivery time may be “estimated” but it would still have to be reasonable, they can’t just take all my money and not give me the car in what’s a reasonable time limit. I’m not saying that’s where we are going here, but so far we the actual buyers are not being treated very well compared to several other countries. There’s no harm in it bringing up these conversations. I absolutely agree that Porsche are not treating owners as well as they might, but that's a long way off suing under tort. The contractual position is that you can cancel if you don't find the delay and the result (of an engine swap) acceptable. Perfectly normal under UK consumer law.

Is U.K. demand having an effect, I bet they would be treating customers a lot better if they thought it was going to be a struggle to sell these cars if customers turned them down . Porsche have the upper hand which is unusual for retail as normally the buyer has the power . It’s the same with brands like Rolex who now decided who can buy what

My situation (GT4 delivery stopped the day before collection, car sitting at the dealer still) has been resolved to my satisfaction; Porsche Chester were slow to respond and help but have now made an offer that s totally fine with me.

boringbeige said: My situation (GT4 delivery stopped the day before collection, car sitting at the dealer still) has been resolved to my satisfaction; Porsche Chester were slow to respond and help but have now made an offer that s totally fine with me. Is it a secret or are you trying to keep us in suspense? Otherwise what’s the point of the post……?

Maybe the price was an NDA ... this discloses only satisfaction, no precedent can therefore be assumed ...

boringbeige said: My situation (GT4 delivery stopped the day before collection, car sitting at the dealer still) has been resolved to my satisfaction; Porsche Chester were slow to respond and help but have now made an offer that s totally fine with me. Good to hear. What’s the resolution ? I was the same. My gt4 was stopped a day or so before I was due to collect

Yes please if you’re gonna post then what was the resolution? Quite a lot of us would be keen to know, especially if it involved an extended warranty like the rest of the world are getting…… Oh you said your dealer, it’s nothing to do with them regarding warranty or fixes..

Any news from boringbeige ? Be interesting to know what the satisfactory outcome he received from opc Chester

News just in 6 year warranty for U.K. cars I’ll take that. Rods ordered today hopefully not too long a wait now…

johnycarrera said: News just in 6 year warranty for U.K. cars I’ll take that. Rods ordered today hopefully not too long a wait now… Well done, Johnycarrera. Pleased for you. This is now beginning to sound reasonable. So, is your dealer going to do the rebuild? You could be on the road in a few weeks! Must be nearly time for a pint to celebrate!

I’m half cut already! Yes dealer doing the rebuild, he’s very experienced and did 3 of the 991.1 GT3s that are still going strong. 6 years is decent so pretty pleased I said no when they offered 4 a couple of days ago!

My opc reckons the car should be fixed with new con rods in a few weeks.

New 100k cars with rebuilt engines and a lesser warranty than 20k Korean cars after months of being ignored, and you're all sucking each other off??!!! I still think you've been had.

Fast and Spurious said: New 100k cars with rebuilt engines and a lesser warranty than 20k Korean cars after months of being ignored, and you're all sucking each other off??!!! I still think you've been had. Welcome to Porsche World…..

You'd almost think the product, despite it's flaws, was exceptional, or something.

Fast and Spurious said: New 100k cars with rebuilt engines and a lesser warranty than 20k Korean cars after months of being ignored, and you're all sucking each other off??!!! I still think you've been had. Yes that’s the nail on the head we are all sucking each other off, top insight from a guy that really knows cars and BJs

I was just about to collect my 982 GTS in the spring of 2021 when the stop sale happened. It was not the happiest of days. Anyway, after an age and what did not seem like the best example ever of customer engagement by Porsche our engines were fixed. Well, mine was after some initial teething issues. And 16500 miles later it seems fine. How has it been for affected others?