Finance - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Anyone recommend a decent financer at the moment i just can't tolerate an A SS ripping 10.8% from Porsche Finance( Part of VW group, who currently charge 7.9% if you buy a VW!) finance quote, there's got to be better much better surely? What sort of rate is possible currently with whom?

That's because the finance company know they cant loose £50K on a Golf. Its all very chicken and egg. The market decline for premium sports cars has seen the prices driven down which scares the finance companies so they've stopped lending on speculative deals and increased the rates when forced to sell something. I'm sure you can still get 7-8% on a personal car loan from your bank but it depends on your situation rather than the car. i.e. if the whole deal goes down the pan can they take your house as well as the car... I just looked on Natwest and got quoted 9.2% APR for £60K over 5 years, £1240/month...enough to get me out of my old R8 into a 997 GT3... I wouldn't spunk that much on a new 992 in this market... If you only want to borrow £20K you'll get 6% and basically its a sliding scale above that. Edited by Bobley on Friday 22 December 10:22

OK thats made me sh't it even more i am looking at spunking 126k on a 992 (retail 142k) maybe i need to hold off due to the markets currently?! Forza quote me these figures a while back i think 9% Apr Quote Summary - Lease Purchase Vehicle Cost £ 126,000,000 Less deposit £ 30,000.00 Payable by 36 monthly payments of £ 1,200.11 1 Final Payment of £ 76,700.00

There's a whole other argument that says if you can get £20K off list and then the market perks up then you're laughing. Your final bubble payment might be a huge amount lower than market value and that would leave you in a great place. You could also be run over by a bus tomorrow... if you want the car and are happy that your income is safe for the duration or whatever then go for it. I must say the prices of nearly new GT3 Tourings is mighty tempting... and if I threw my GFs 993 into the trade then.....

Keep the 993, it will not drop

kenofkens said: Anyone recommend a decent financer at the moment i just can't tolerate an A SS ripping 10.8% from Porsche Finance( Part of VW group, who currently charge 7.9% if you buy a VW!) finance quote, there's got to be better much better surely? What sort of rate is possible currently with whom? I expect this to change significantly in the New Year. Fingers crossed...

Discombobulate said: kenofkens said: Anyone recommend a decent financer at the moment i just can't tolerate an A SS ripping 10.8% from Porsche Finance( Part of VW group, who currently charge 7.9% if you buy a VW!) finance quote, there's got to be better much better surely? What sort of rate is possible currently with whom? I expect this to change significantly in the New Year. Fingers crossed... Seems to have gone up - 13.4% now on a lot of used cars.

I changed my 991.2 gts for a targa (991 gts) a couple of weeks ago through Porsche in Exeter , they were offering finance via Santander at 9.9%. , so as I owned my original car in full I financed the cost to change .

Got a quote from Charles and Dean yesterday for a new 992 for £125k too.. the yellow GTS! £15k deposit 4 years interest charge was £36,993 (total payable was £162k 48 payments of £1577.99 Balloon - £71250 10.39% Too much.. I am playing around between HP/PCP and have noticed with the right setup the APR drops to 6.4% on HP - yeah its a chance more per month but loan costs substantially less. Step 2 of 2 Summary of your representative finance calculation Duration 48 months Monthly payment £1,991.38 Number of Payments 47 Porsche Contribution £0.00 Customer deposit £20,000.00 Retail Cash Price £104,500.00 Option to purchase fee (Payable at the end of your agreement) £10.00 Total amount payable £115,596.24 Total amount of credit £84,500.00 Rate of interest 6.36% Fixed Representative APR 6.40% APR Edited by _speedyellow_ on Friday 22 December 13:57

Cosworth4388 said: I changed my 991.2 gts for a targa (991 gts) a couple of weeks ago through Porsche in Exeter , they were offering finance via Santander at 9.9%. , so as I owned my original car in full I financed the cost to change . VW Finance is provided by Santander I'm pretty certain.

Schuey_911 said: VW Finance is provided by Santander I'm pretty certain. Isn’t VWFS a stand alone Financial entity within the parent group ?

Discombobulate said: I expect this to change significantly in the New Year. Fingers crossed... Can I ask why ?

_speedyellow_ said: Got a quote from Charles and Dean yesterday for a new 992 for £125k too.. the yellow GTS! £15k deposit 4 years interest charge was £36,993 (total payable was £162k 48 payments of £1577.99 Balloon - £71250 10.39% Too much.. I am playing around between HP/PCP and have noticed with the right setup the APR drops to 6.4% on HP - yeah its a chance more per month but loan costs substantially less. Step 2 of 2 Summary of your representative finance calculation Duration 48 months Monthly payment £1,991.38 Number of Payments 47 Porsche Contribution £0.00 Customer deposit £20,000.00 Retail Cash Price £104,500.00 Option to purchase fee (Payable at the end of your agreement) £10.00 Total amount payable £115,596.24 Total amount of credit £84,500.00 Rate of interest 6.36% Fixed Representative APR 6.40% APR Edited by _speedyellow_ on Friday 22 December 13:57 So you end up paying £115,596.24 for a new car which lists at £125k ... effectively with four years interest free and the car has become a savings plan worth whatever the car is worth after four years ?

alscar said: Schuey_911 said: VW Finance is provided by Santander I'm pretty certain. Isn’t VWFS a stand alone Financial entity within the parent group ? Yes, they are their own bank.

Schuey_911 said: VW Finance is provided by Santander I'm pretty certain. I think you should become uncertain.

Bobley said: I'm sure you can still get 7-8% on a personal car loan from your bank but it depends on your situation rather than the car. i.e. if the whole deal goes down the pan can they take your house as well as the car... Personal loan = take your house? I think you are confusing personal loans with secured loans. A personal loan is not secured against your house.

Wills2 said: alscar said: Schuey_911 said: VW Finance is provided by Santander I'm pretty certain. Isn’t VWFS a stand alone Financial entity within the parent group ? Yes, they are their own bank. I stand corrected then

ChrisW. said: So you end up paying £115,596.24 for a new car which lists at £125k ... effectively with four years interest free and the car has become a savings plan worth whatever the car is worth after four years ? Agree, something wrong with those numbers - in the summary the Retail Cash Price is stated as £104,500 not the previously stated £125k. The finance charges are roughly £11,000 (115,596-104,500)

Discombobulate said: kenofkens said: Anyone recommend a decent financer at the moment i just can't tolerate an A SS ripping 10.8% from Porsche Finance( Part of VW group, who currently charge 7.9% if you buy a VW!) finance quote, there's got to be better much better surely? What sort of rate is possible currently with whom? I expect this to change significantly in the New Year. Fingers crossed... I absolutely do not see this changing in the new year significantly. I don't even see a small change in 2024.

I got told today they expect rates to rise again in Jan. Its currently at 11.9% IIRC. The dealer was clear that is is massively affecting their business, but their hands are tied. Personally, whilst there are many cars I could, and would, buy. I'm always seeking value, and there is little in the market at the moment.

Nuttcase said: ChrisW. said: So you end up paying £115,596.24 for a new car which lists at £125k ... effectively with four years interest free and the car has become a savings plan worth whatever the car is worth after four years ? Agree, something wrong with those numbers - in the summary the Retail Cash Price is stated as £104,500 not the previously stated £125k. The finance charges are roughly £11,000 (115,596-104,500) I think the numbers are based on a used 992 GTS @104.5k retail not the new car at 125k They are offering far lower APRs if you don't need a GFV, which tells you where they are on those at the moment, link to that car I think was being used finance example/calc shown if you click the link in the page https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...

Sorry guys I was quoting two different cars - the C&D was a £125k new GTS the 2nd was a £104k 2nd hand GTS. Again apologies on this.

alscar said: Can I ask why ? Because VWFS can afford to lower them. And Porsche won’t sell enough cars to keep dealers happy if they don’t. They either cut rates or continue discounting - but even more.

It’s just not sustainable if over 75% of cars are financed how can they continue expecting cash buyers will offset the loss in demand, just look at the amount of stock across the range, Macan was unheard of to have a stock vehicle there’s plenty even the most sought after GTS. How much more longer will OPC’s absorb lack lustre sales. They will have to get off their high horse or risk flooding the market with excess stock and discounts e.g Taycans with a minimum 10% discount and now with a free home charger. Don’t get me wrong they won’t be matching BMW/Mercedes rates at 5-6% but 11.4% that’s insane unless you’re getting a serious discount.

S_13 said: It’s just not sustainable if over 75% of cars are financed how can they continue expecting cash buyers will offset the loss in demand, just look at the amount of stock across the range, Macan was unheard of to have a stock vehicle there’s plenty even the most sought after GTS. How much more longer will OPC’s absorb lack lustre sales. They will have to get off their high horse or risk flooding the market with excess stock and discounts e.g Taycans with a minimum 10% discount and now with a free home charger. Don’t get me wrong they won’t be matching BMW/Mercedes rates at 5-6% but 11.4% that’s insane unless you’re getting a serious discount. They have already flooded the market with brand new unwanted 992 and Tycans in the Uk. Other models of brand new Porsches will only increase if they don’t get control of sharp rise of new stock coming through. Discounts and a reduction in their costs of borrowing should help things along, but they clearly don’t have to otherwise they would have made that business decision. Looks like they are pushing for maximum profit every time due to their wider market business model.

I’m planning to chop in my Cayman GTS4.0 after Xmas for a Macan. Looking at finance and 11.4% on used cars now so i’ll be looking for a decent discount to offset the interest. Interestingly, if you quote finance on the website, depending on what deposit, term or mileage you stick in the rate jumps around between 11.4 and 13.4%, which tells you where it’s going. I plan to pay the finance off within a year, but i will not buy if the rate rises any further, and will go elsewhere.

It would be crazy to pay such a high rate of interest on a depreciating asset especially over 4-5years, unless you are planning to pay it off within a year or so or the amount financed is very small. The high interest rate was sustainable because they were not depreciating assets, now the cars are depreciating assets

Most banks have their own car finance products. They are able to finance cars up to £60,000.00 at a rate of 6.5%APR for HP. This rate is not too far from some current mortgage rates. So people should take advantage of this. Even at this rate, the aim should be to pay off ASAP as total interest over 60 months is about £10,200

The most I’ve seen is approx 25% off a pre reg Taycan 4s I’m not even sure if that’s worth it.

_speedyellow_ said: Sorry guys I was quoting two different cars - the C&D was a £125k new GTS the 2nd was a £104k 2nd hand GTS. Again apologies on this. No probs, it's still an interesting comparison

kenofkens said: OK thats made me sh't it even more i am looking at spunking 126k on a 992 (retail 142k) maybe i need to hold off due to the markets currently?! Forza quote me these figures a while back i think 9% Apr Quote Summary - Lease Purchase Vehicle Cost £ 126,000,000 Less deposit £ 30,000.00 Payable by 36 monthly payments of £ 1,200.11 1 Final Payment of £ 76,700.00 OK my local porsche Stealer said they won't deal with Forza due to some issue they 'apparently' had with them. I did ask its nothing to do with them charging a lower APR and 5k lower final payment maybe?

Discombobulate said: Because VWFS can afford to lower them. And Porsche won’t sell enough cars to keep dealers happy if they don’t. They either cut rates or continue discounting - but even more. Yup don’t necessarily disagree other than perhaps with the use of the word “ significantly but will certainly be interesting to see how 24 develops.

alscar said: Yup don’t necessarily disagree other than perhaps with the use of the word “ significantly but will certainly be interesting to see how 24 develops. I hope I am right, because if they make an insignificant cut it won't change the status quo.

kenofkens said: kenofkens said: OK thats made me sh't it even more i am looking at spunking 126k on a 992 (retail 142k) maybe i need to hold off due to the markets currently?! Forza quote me these figures a while back i think 9% Apr Quote Summary - Lease Purchase Vehicle Cost £ 126,000,000 Less deposit £ 30,000.00 Payable by 36 monthly payments of £ 1,200.11 1 Final Payment of £ 76,700.00 OK my local porsche Stealer said they won't deal with Forza due to some issue they 'apparently' had with them. I did ask its nothing to do with them charging a lower APR and 5k lower final payment maybe? Push them on it and they will back down. If they don’t, tell them you will seek guidance from the FCA.

andyeds1234 said: Push them on it and they will back down. If they don’t, tell them you will seek guidance from the FCA. Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed?

kenofkens said: Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? They cam choose not to sell you a car should they wish.

kenofkens said: Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? Post up on here what they sent you, I'm sure we'd all love to take a look and help.

People financing cars by an eye watering amount! £1500 a month is a mortgage ! Buy used and save yourselves a fortune, unless you’re whacking through a company !

Surely just release some savings at those levels to buy the car in cash? You are not going to be bettering 11% on a regular basis on investments (and clearly not cash) so I don’t see why you’d not buy outright.

journeymanpro said: kenofkens said: Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? They cam choose not to sell you a car should they wish. Can they really? What reason would they use?

kenofkens said: andyeds1234 said: Push them on it and they will back down. If they don’t, tell them you will seek guidance from the FCA. Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? I was told by Oracle that an OPC was not allowed to refuse to sell you a car simply because you would not use their finance. But we do know that they have in the past invited people to buy watches / PPF etc ... in order for a car order to be acceptable ... It is also true that you cannot force a shop to sell you something ... Make of that what you will ...

Maybe the OPC sales team don't like the rate of commission that Forza pay ? When we sold on extended credit I asked for rates with no commission, I didn't want this to manipulate the decisions made by the sales teams (who were paid to and did a great job) ... all customers being equal etc etc. But we are in different times ....

kenofkens said: andyeds1234 said: Push them on it and they will back down. If they don’t, tell them you will seek guidance from the FCA. Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? No, that is simply not allowed.

ChrisW. said: Maybe the OPC sales team don't like the rate of commission that Forza pay ? When we sold on extended credit I asked for rates with no commission, I didn't want this to manipulate the decisions made by the sales teams (who were paid to and did a great job) ... all customers being equal etc etc. But we are in different times .... ChrisW did you work for a porsche dealer?

Youforreal. said: Can they really? What reason would they use? Whatever reason they like. You can't force a business to sell you something.

GT4RS said: ChrisW. said: Maybe the OPC sales team don't like the rate of commission that Forza pay ? When we sold on extended credit I asked for rates with no commission, I didn't want this to manipulate the decisions made by the sales teams (who were paid to and did a great job) ... all customers being equal etc etc. But we are in different times .... ChrisW did you work for a porsche dealer? No, completely different retail and professional industry ...

Well it seems now Porsche is doing 6.4% APR for hire purchase for GT3 991.1 However still 11.4% APR for PCPs and HPs for the newer cars.

GT4RS said: Seems very unprofessional from an office porsche dealer. I would first ask to speak to the sales manager and dp on the matter. If this has no joy, it may be worth a quick call to the fca and porsche Uk to understand if they are allowed to take this approach being an approved porsche dealer. If they are I would leave a honest google review for the dealer annd sale person and then look for a new porsche dealer to deal with. Hopefully a sensible conversation with the sales manager and dp will solve the issue. Thankyou for the advice i will consider this, just to add and to ensure i am not giving OPC an unfair representation, they are offering discount off retail/configurator price whilst insisting for me to have this discount i use Porsche finance. That aside as illustrated i am paying 5k more in finance fees via Porsche of Forza, over 3 years and 95k that's alot of money.

kenofkens said: andyeds1234 said: Push them on it and they will back down. If they don’t, tell them you will seek guidance from the FCA. Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? Seems very unprofessional from an official porsche dealer. I would first ask to speak to the sales manager and dp on the matter. If this has no joy, it may be worth a quick call to the fca and porsche Uk to understand if they are allowed to take this approach being an approved porsche dealer. If they are, I would leave a honest google review for the dealer and sale person and then look for a new porsche dealer to deal with. Hopefully a sensible conversation with the sales manager and dp will solve the issue. Edited by GT4RS on Tuesday 26th December 22:51

kenofkens said: GT4RS said: Seems very unprofessional from an office porsche dealer. I would first ask to speak to the sales manager and dp on the matter. If this has no joy, it may be worth a quick call to the fca and porsche Uk to understand if they are allowed to take this approach being an approved porsche dealer. If they are I would leave a honest google review for the dealer annd sale person and then look for a new porsche dealer to deal with. Hopefully a sensible conversation with the sales manager and dp will solve the issue. Thankyou for the advice i will consider this, just to add and to ensure i am not giving OPC an unfair representation, they are offering discount off retail/configurator price whilst insisting for me to have this discount i use Porsche finance. That aside as illustrated i am paying 5k more in finance fees via Porsche of Forza, over 3 years and 95k that's alot of money. So they are trying to make out they are giving a discount with one hand and then trying to claw back this discount with the other hand by over charging you with their financing offer. Personally this would tell me enough about this dealer and I would tell them thanks but no thanks and move on. There’s now a huge amount of new 992 cars now available due to poor sales, I would be very surprised if another car didn’t tickle your fancy in the next few weeks.

LamedonM said: Well it seems now Porsche is doing 6.4% APR for hire purchase for GT3 991.1 However still 11.4% APR for PCPs and HPs for the newer cars. all porsche dealers or just specific ones ? as presently looking to finance gt3

kenofkens said: None of it makes sense to me as see below i make more payments to Forza i guess its that final payment from Porsche that increases the overall profit. Anyway either way it seems i pay £25k interest on a £95k loan. That's some butt hurt commission there. Id much rather use Forza over 3 years. Quote Summary - Vehicle Cost £ 124,515.00 Less deposit £ 29,500.00 £95,015 credit Porsche Quoted me 35 monthly repayments of £1,117.33, Final payment of £83,220.00 payable 35 months after Annual Percentage Rate 10.79% Total paid back for borrowing shy of £95k £122,326.55 = £27465.38 interest Forza Quoted me 36 monthly payments of £1,163.11 Final Payment of £75,700.00 Annual Percentage Rate 8.9% Total paid back for borrowing £95k £117571.96 = £22571.96 interest Did you go through a detailed finance review (did they check income/outgo/current debt) to give that APR? I went on their site and was quoted 9.9% for a £80k loan.

Forza are quoting 9.9% Apr

journeymanpro said: Youforreal. said: Can they really? What reason would they use? Whatever reason they like. You can't force a business to sell you something. We are talking about adhering to financial regulations, not simply selling a car. If the dealer is providing finance, they need to abide by FCA requirements. FCA fines can be substantial, and definitely something a dealer will want to avoid.

I bought a gt3 a month ago and financed via oracle for 9.9. I’m intending on refinancing it once the rates materially go down. Your not tied into these deals for the duration so if you believe rates will go down then your only talking about a few months inflated payments.thats my man maths 😂 if you wait for finance rates to fall no doubt the vehicles prices will go up or choice will diminish as demand returns and your not enjoying your car in the interim. Oracle refinanced my last Porsche 3 times over 5 years.

john-j4ty0 said: LamedonM said: Well it seems now Porsche is doing 6.4% APR for hire purchase for GT3 991.1 However still 11.4% APR for PCPs and HPs for the newer cars. all porsche dealers or just specific ones ? as presently looking to finance gt3 It was on general OPC website : calculate monthly payments

andyeds1234 said: journeymanpro said: Youforreal. said: Can they really? What reason would they use? Whatever reason they like. You can't force a business to sell you something. We are talking about adhering to financial regulations, not simply selling a car. If the dealer is providing finance, they need to abide by FCA requirements. FCA fines can be substantial, and definitely something a dealer will want to avoid. But what rule are they breaking? Businesses don't have to accept every form of payment available if they don't want to, I can't see how you can force a vendor to enter into an agreement with a finance house if they don't want to, there could be many reasons and we probably know why just like they won't accept people paying for cars on credit cards.

They are entering into an agreement with a customer ... the customer decides how to pay and once paid the ownership is transferred. You are correct, a dealer does not have to sell to any customer. But they could be asked for a reason and there are many potentially prejudicial reasons that could get them into a lot of trouble.

ChrisW. said: I was told by Oracle that an OPC was not allowed to refuse to sell you a car simply because you would not use their finance. But we do know that they have in the past invited people to buy watches / PPF etc ... in order for a car order to be acceptable ... And indeed other Porsche car purchases …….

guyvert1 said: kenofkens said: Ok they intimated in writing they wouldn't sell me the car unless its Porsche finance is this also not allowed? Post up on here what they sent you, I'm sure we'd all love to take a look and help. None of it makes sense to me as see below i make more payments to Forza i guess its that final payment from Porsche that increases the overall profit. Anyway either way it seems i pay £25k interest on a £95k loan. That's some butt hurt commission there. Id much rather use Forza over 3 years. Either way that's 25k or so over 3 years you pay in interest alone. Thats without depreciation on top. Quote Summary - Vehicle Cost £ 124,515.00 Less deposit £ 29,500.00 £95,015 credit Porsche Quoted me 35 monthly repayments of £1,117.33, Final payment of £83,220.00 payable 35 months after Annual Percentage Rate 10.79% Total paid back for borrowing shy of £95k £122,326.55 = £27465.38 interest Forza Quoted me 36 monthly payments of £1,163.11 Final Payment of £75,700.00 Annual Percentage Rate 8.9% Total paid back for borrowing £95k £117571.96 = £22571.96 interest Edited by kenofkens on Wednesday 27th December 13:03 Edited by kenofkens on Wednesday 27th December 13:04

Agreed ... to be fair there are also times when a retailer by virtue of the value of their introductions, may reach a special arrangement with a retail lender (such as Hitachi Finance) to provide rates which are preferential to the end customer. This gives the retailer a commercial advantage and the customer a saving. There was a time when 0% finance was available over 12 months so long as the 12 payments were made on time. I effect that was a discount on the new price ... but this converted into a credit agreement with a rate of 19.9% over 24 months ? if the final payment was not made early or at the latest on-time. We used to remind our customers ... but you would be amazed how often they forgot and then ?? It was expensive, which is how the finance company could make the offer in the first place.

Is Porsche finance own by Porsche GB? If so that means the cars being sold by Porsche retailers network like Reading is being sold and financed by the same company? Could this be said of franchised dealers?

LamedonM said: Is Porsche finance own by Porsche GB? If so that means the cars being sold by Porsche retailers network like Reading is being sold and financed by the same company? Could this be said of franchised dealers? VWFS LTD

I've found in recent years some dealers, especially one of the big dealer groups, have become increasingly obstructive in facilitating 3rd party finance. Never have I had this actually refused, but they don't make it easy and are quite open about their organisational policy being to make this as difficult as possible. New strategy is simple, and overcomes this instantly. Take the expensive dealer finance. Pay it off inside the 14 day cooling off period with your independently sourced finance. Dealers will hate this (when they get their commission clawbacks) but can do absolutely nothing about it. I don't especially like making things difficult for people or businesses, but we don't live in a harmonious world and if the general industry is going to go out of its way to make life deliberately difficult for the customer, they therefore somewhat bring this on themselves.

Palmball said: I've found in recent years some dealers, especially one of the big dealer groups, have become increasingly obstructive in facilitating 3rd party finance. Never have I had this actually refused, but they don't make it easy and are quite open about their organisational policy being to make this as difficult as possible. New strategy is simple, and overcomes this instantly. Take the expensive dealer finance. Pay it off inside the 14 day cooling off period with your independently sourced finance. Dealers will hate this (when they get their commission clawbacks) but can do absolutely nothing about it. I don't especially like making things difficult for people or businesses, but we don't live in a harmonious world and if the general industry is going to go out of its way to make life deliberately difficult for the customer, they therefore somewhat bring this on themselves. Sounds like Sytner The problem is refinance in an existing car is not like buying a new car from a new finance contract. I tried this and all the refinance options were .25% less than what I’m paying at the moment and that wasn’t enough for me to switch.

Guyr said: In relation to the 6.4% APR quotes that seem to appear on some cars for HP, I suspect that this may be a glitch from old pricing, as when you adjust the quotes to different terms the rates often jumps back to 10%+. I'd be amazed if any OPC that could offer 6.4% and had a stock of cars to shift would not be doing so on all cars. On the subject of FCA rules and finance, speaking as someone whose business is to arrange finance programmes for retailers, I have no enthusiasm for going into minute details, but this thread does seem to mix up two differing options, which have different implications: a) Where a retailer, operating as a 'broker' under FCA Limited Permissions, introduces to the customer one or more finance options to purchase a product. The retailer will not be a signature to the actual loan agreement, but will have a contract with the finance provider that details their obligations in the process. The retailer therefore has obligations to both the customer under FCA rules and the finance provider under their contract. b) Where the customer solicits their own finance directly, the retailer may not necessarily be a party to any agreement and may simply be the recipient of funds and in that situation has a much lower level (if any) of responsibility to the other parties. The FCA has done a lot of enforcement work in recent years in the car finance business, where dealers were forcing customers to take higher rate loans to make more commissions and the recent introduction this year of the Consumer Duty regulations strengthens further the requirement on dealers and lenders. Given how much harder it is now to gain and keep FCA approvals, no dealers will be wishing to have complaints registered against them, so if anyone was genuinely being mis-treated then the suggestion of an FCA breach and complaint would likely cause a swift resolution to any problems. Lastly, whilst no retailer is ever obliged to sell any product to any specific individual, if they offer a specific product for sale to a specific individual, but require finance to complete the purchase, or withdraw the offer to sell the product if finance is not taken, then they would likely be in breach of the law. You seem well versed in this, I asked a question earlier when someone stated that a company doesn’t have to sell you a product if they choose not to. Forget about GT products, if I walked in and could finance the car myself, could they actually refuse to sell me a vanilla 911? I find it hard to believe they could, what reason would they use?

Youforreal. said: You seem well versed in this, I asked a question earlier when someone stated that a company doesn’t have to sell you a product if they choose not to. Forget about GT products, if I walked in and could finance the car myself, could they actually refuse to sell me a vanilla 911? I find it hard to believe they could, what reason would they use? They can refuse but need a valid reason, otherwise it falls foul of the discrimination type acts. So one reason could be money laundering concerns. A second could be you physically assaulting a staff member. A third could be ongoing litigation between you and them in relation to a separate issue etc. etc.

NRG1976 said: Youforreal. said: You seem well versed in this, I asked a question earlier when someone stated that a company doesn’t have to sell you a product if they choose not to. Forget about GT products, if I walked in and could finance the car myself, could they actually refuse to sell me a vanilla 911? I find it hard to believe they could, what reason would they use? They can refuse but need a valid reason, otherwise it falls foul of the discrimination type acts. So one reason could be money laundering concerns. A second could be you physically assaulting a staff member. A third could be ongoing litigation between you and them in relation to a separate issue etc. etc. So as I suspected, they can’t refuse you unless they have a legal reason.

_speedyellow_ said: Palmball said: I've found in recent years some dealers, especially one of the big dealer groups, have become increasingly obstructive in facilitating 3rd party finance. Never have I had this actually refused, but they don't make it easy and are quite open about their organisational policy being to make this as difficult as possible. New strategy is simple, and overcomes this instantly. Take the expensive dealer finance. Pay it off inside the 14 day cooling off period with your independently sourced finance. Dealers will hate this (when they get their commission clawbacks) but can do absolutely nothing about it. I don't especially like making things difficult for people or businesses, but we don't live in a harmonious world and if the general industry is going to go out of its way to make life deliberately difficult for the customer, they therefore somewhat bring this on themselves. Sounds like Sytner The problem is refinance in an existing car is not like buying a new car from a new finance contract. I tried this and all the refinance options were .25% less than what I’m paying at the moment and that wasn’t enough for me to switch. Your rights also reduce, like the amount you need to pay off before the finance house can reclaim the car without court order

Youforreal. said: You seem well versed in this, I asked a question earlier when someone stated that a company doesn’t have to sell you a product if they choose not to. Forget about GT products, if I walked in and could finance the car myself, could they actually refuse to sell me a vanilla 911? I find it hard to believe they could, what reason would they use? If you are talking about the rules that apply to normal retail sales then any business can legitimately refuse to supply any customer anything and doesn't have to give a reason why. It is actually far more problematic if they give a reason, as that reason could itself be illegal (such as racist/sexist/religious discrimination etc). This changes however when finance is introduced into the equation , as then the laws on finance also apply. So yes, if you walked in and said 'I'd like to buy a car with cash' as your opening statement, they can legally refuse to do so, provided they say nothing stupid when doing so. However if they offer to sell you a car, but make that offer conditional on taking finance that it is illegal as they're forcing you to enter a loan. The problem is that the nuance here is the timing and sequence of the offer/finance discussions and unless this in writing it would be hard to prove wrong-doing.

Guyr said: If you are talking about the rules that apply to normal retail sales then any business can legitimately refuse to supply any customer anything and doesn't have to give a reason why. It is actually far more problematic if they give a reason, as that reason could itself be illegal (such as racist/sexist/religious discrimination etc). This changes however when finance is introduced into the equation , as then the laws on finance also apply. So yes, if you walked in and said 'I'd like to buy a car with cash' as your opening statement, they can legally refuse to do so, provided they say nothing stupid when doing so. However if they offer to sell you a car, but make that offer conditional on taking finance that it is illegal as they're forcing you to enter a loan. The problem is that the nuance here is the timing and sequence of the offer/finance discussions and unless this in writing it would be hard to prove wrong-doing. But say I took that a bit, say, thick and decided I really wanted a vanilla 911 and decided to take a legal route to get one (hypothetically of course) would they actually get away with giving no reason in court?

Youforreal. said: But say I took that a bit, say, thick and decided I really wanted a vanilla 911 and decided to take a legal route to get one (hypothetically of course) would they actually get away with giving no reason in court? But on a vanilla 911, they will always allow you to place a deposit to join the back of the queue, so why would you need to sue?

Guyr said: Youforreal. said: But say I took that a bit, say, thick and decided I really wanted a vanilla 911 and decided to take a legal route to get one (hypothetically of course) would they actually get away with giving no reason in court? But on a vanilla 911, they will always allow you to place a deposit to join the back of the queue, so why would you need to sue? No need to have to join the back of the queue anymore. There is no queue!

Guyr said: Youforreal. said: But say I took that a bit, say, thick and decided I really wanted a vanilla 911 and decided to take a legal route to get one (hypothetically of course) would they actually get away with giving no reason in court? But on a vanilla 911, they will always allow you to place a deposit to join the back of the queue, so why would you need to sue? Not really what I was getting at but Appreciate the replies anyway.

Youforreal. said: Not really what I was getting at but Appreciate the replies anyway. In reality though I cannot see any OPC letting any valid customer walk out the door without a sale in the current climate ! They certainly aren’t going to risk breaking any financial regulations.

OK back to the note of Finance rates, i see some talk on here that there is a possibility of lower lending rates round the corner come the new year. How often do the likes of Porsche ie VW finance review and adjust rates, would it be 1st week or is it arbitrary knowing Porsche it's some 'special' VIP based group who have bought watches for the last 10years that are told first? For anyone concerned about how much typically you will pay in interest alone on a car for 3 years: With current interest rates for Porsche Finance they are charging £27k over 3 years borrowing £95k. (10.8% APR) With Santander i think its about £22k Interesting this APR figure its' nothing like '10.8%' i believe this should be scrapped and a clearer illustrative symbol used i can think of a few!! Also the finance figures give you an illustration but to not mention total interest paid, only total amount paid, you have to work this out yourself, this sort of detail the financial ombudsman should be aware of and resolve. I was shocked when i worked out how much interest you actually pay.

kenofkens said: OK back to the note of Finance rates, i see some talk on here that there is a possibility of lower lending rates round the corner come the new year. How often do the likes of Porsche ie VW finance review and adjust rates, would it be 1st week or is it arbitrary knowing Porsche it's some 'special' VIP based group who have bought watches for the last 10years that are told first? For anyone concerned about how much typically you will pay in interest alone on a car for 3 years: With current interest rates for Porsche Finance they are charging £27k over 3 years borrowing £95k. (10.8% APR) With Santander i think its about £22k Interesting this APR figure its' nothing like '10.8%' i believe this should be scrapped and a clearer illustrative symbol used i can think of a few!! Also the finance figures give you an illustration but to not mention total interest paid, only total amount paid, you have to work this out yourself, this sort of detail the financial ombudsman should be aware of and resolve. I was shocked when i worked out how much interest you actually pay. APR is an annualised measure, it helps compare loans interest rates where they are set over different term lengths.

10.8% APR is crazy. If you are having to finance a car at that rate you should probably buy something else. Or save.

kenofkens said: OK back to the note of Finance rates, i see some talk on here that there is a possibility of lower lending rates round the corner come the new year. How often do the likes of Porsche ie VW finance review and adjust rates, would it be 1st week or is it arbitrary knowing Porsche it's some 'special' VIP based group who have bought watches for the last 10years that are told first? For anyone concerned about how much typically you will pay in interest alone on a car for 3 years: With current interest rates for Porsche Finance they are charging £27k over 3 years borrowing £95k. (10.8% APR) With Santander i think its about £22k Interesting this APR figure its' nothing like '10.8%' i believe this should be scrapped and a clearer illustrative symbol used i can think of a few!! Also the finance figures give you an illustration but to not mention total interest paid, only total amount paid, you have to work this out yourself, this sort of detail the financial ombudsman should be aware of and resolve. I was shocked when i worked out how much interest you actually pay. Can you provide the actual quote? I thought they had to include the figure for ‘Total amount of charges’ etc, as well as the APR. However, if someone isn’t able to deduct the ‘Total amount of credit’ figure from the ‘Total amount payable’ figure, then I’m not sure they should be financing a new Porsche! Edited by Sport_Turismo_GTS on Sunday 31st December 16:59

Any finance quote or agreement I have ever taken out has always shown every constituent part of costs be it deposit , interest , admin costs , payment to take 100% ownership etc.

S600BSB said: 10.8% APR is crazy. If you are having to finance a car at that rate you should probably buy something else. Or save. Agree it is a f ked up amount, the highest rate quoted i see by the same company ie VW finance for a VW is 8.5% with a 4k contribution, but yes i know its not including Porsche Tax.

kenofkens said: S600BSB said: 10.8% APR is crazy. If you are having to finance a car at that rate you should probably buy something else. Or save. Agree it is a f ked up amount, the highest rate quoted i see by the same company ie VW finance for a VW is 8.5% with a 4k contribution, but yes i know its not including Porsche Tax. I’ve never bought anything but my house on finance so so the concept of PCP/HP is new to me. Now im finally in a position to afford £1500-2000 a month repayments on a car (see my other thread), I can’t bring myself to it with these rates. Money is staying in a high interest instant account/S&S ISA for now. I suspect I am not the only one.

I’ve read a lot on this thread about the current discounts on new Porsches, especially on Taycans. I have a new 992 GTS arriving at the dealers in the next couple of weeks, and would be interested to know the level of discount other forum members have been offered on cars built to their own spec rather than on delivery mileage or nearly new cars. I’ve seen some very tempting deals on low mileage 2023 911 GTSs but none of these are quite the right spec for me. I know in the current market I’m going to take a big hit on depreciation as I drive out of the showroom but it will definitely soften the blow if the dealer can offer a decent discount. I was considering financing the car through Oracle, Charles & Dean or Forza if the Porsche Finance rates don’t drop this month, but if sticking with Porsche Finance can help get a discount on the car then that’s definitely an option worth considering. Many thanks Jamie

Jamie-0nptw said: I’ve read a lot on this thread about the current discounts on new Porsches, especially on Taycans. I have a new 992 GTS arriving at the dealers in the next couple of weeks, and would be interested to know the level of discount other forum members have been offered on cars built to their own spec rather than on delivery mileage or nearly new cars. I’ve seen some very tempting deals on low mileage 2023 911 GTSs but none of these are quite the right spec for me. I know in the current market I’m going to take a big hit on depreciation as I drive out of the showroom but it will definitely soften the blow if the dealer can offer a decent discount. I was considering financing the car through Oracle, Charles & Dean or Forza if the Porsche Finance rates don’t drop this month, but if sticking with Porsche Finance can help get a discount on the car then that’s definitely an option worth considering. Many thanks Jamie If you have ordered a new car and had it built to order and it’s being delivered in the next few week how do you think you will now be able to get a discount on this car? You would have agreed to the price of the car when you locked your spec and signed the contract!

Jamie-0nptw said: I’ve read a lot on this thread about the current discounts on new Porsches, especially on Taycans. I have a new 992 GTS arriving at the dealers in the next couple of weeks, and would be interested to know the level of discount other forum members have been offered on cars built to their own spec rather than on delivery mileage or nearly new cars. I’ve seen some very tempting deals on low mileage 2023 911 GTSs but none of these are quite the right spec for me. I know in the current market I’m going to take a big hit on depreciation as I drive out of the showroom but it will definitely soften the blow if the dealer can offer a decent discount. I was considering financing the car through Oracle, Charles & Dean or Forza if the Porsche Finance rates don’t drop this month, but if sticking with Porsche Finance can help get a discount on the car then that’s definitely an option worth considering. Many thanks Jamie The time to negotiate was when you ordered, not now.

If I cancelled my order the dealer would probably have to discount the car to sell it, so there’s potentially still time to negotiate on the price if other dealers are offering significant discounts. I’m sure the dealer would prefer to offer some money off the car to secure the sale rather than it going into stock and being stuck in the showroom for a few months. I appreciate it’s not ideal and I’d normally have negotiated the discount when I placed the order but this just wasn’t something that was possible at a time when cars were selling for over list.

Jamie-0nptw said: If I cancelled my order the dealer would probably have to discount the car to sell it, so there’s potentially still time to negotiate on the price if other dealers are offering significant discounts. I’m sure the dealer would prefer to offer some money off the car to secure the sale rather than it going into stock and being stuck in the showroom for a few months. I appreciate it’s not ideal and I’d normally have negotiated the discount when I placed the order but this just wasn’t something that was possible at a time when cars were selling for over list. Good luck with that! If you cancel your order the dealer will keep your deposit!

Jamie-0nptw said: If I cancelled my order the dealer would probably have to discount the car to sell it, so there’s potentially still time to negotiate on the price if other dealers are offering significant discounts. I’m sure the dealer would prefer to offer some money off the car to secure the sale rather than it going into stock and being stuck in the showroom for a few months. I appreciate it’s not ideal and I’d normally have negotiated the discount when I placed the order but this just wasn’t something that was possible at a time when cars were selling for over list. Nope, they will just keep your £10k deposit.

My understanding is that any deposit linked to a finance purchase has to be returned as it falls under the FSA regulations. This applies even in situations where the car has already been built.

Jamie-0nptw said: My understanding is that any deposit linked to a finance purchase has to be returned as it falls under the FSA regulations. This applies even in situations where the car has already been built. Do you have a link? I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. The FSA haven’t existed for over 10 years - it’s the FCA now. Edited by Sport_Turismo_GTS on Monday 1st January 21:37

Jamie-0nptw said: My understanding is that any deposit linked to a finance purchase has to be returned as it falls under the FSA regulations. This applies even in situations where the car has already been built. I’m not sure that is correct, it would pretty much allow almost all purchases to be cancelled without penalty. When you lock in your build, you are effectively purchasing a bespoke product, and would be the point where the deposit is locked in. Edited by andyeds1234 on Monday 1st January 21:38

andyeds1234 said: I’m not sure that is correct, it would pretty much allow almost all purchases to be cancelled without penalty. When you lock in your build, you are effectively purchasing a bespoke product, and would be the point where the deposit is locked in. That’s my understanding - once your build is locked, your deposit is no longer refundable.

said: I had to cancel an order for an Audi Q5 about 10 years ago as I decided to purchase an SQ5 through another dealer following a promotion at work. The new car was purchased via Broadspeed.com and the guy I was dealing with was familiar with the regulations and drafted the sample letter below. EXAMPLE. Further to my recent telephone conversation with yourselves I am writing to confirm that I no longer wish to purchase from you a new Audi Q5. I request my deposit of £500 be returned within the next 5 working days. This deposit is due to be returned to me as it was paid in conjunction with a finance deal and as such forms part of that deal and is considered to be a payment linked to that agreement which I am entitled to cancel and has not been started yet. Please confirm to me in writing that the deal is cancelled and you have performed the refund. Cancelling the order has been a hugely difficult decision to make and I wish to thank everyone at the dealership for their assistance. I am sure that we can put the matter behind us and that I will use your services in the future.

Jamie-0nptw said: I had to cancel an order for an Audi Q5 about 10 years ago as I decided to purchase an SQ5 through another dealer following a promotion at work. The new car was purchased via Broadspeed.com and the guy I was dealing with was familiar with the regulations and drafted the sample letter below. EXAMPLE. Further to my recent telephone conversation with yourselves I am writing to confirm that I no longer wish to purchase from you a new Audi Q5. I request my deposit of £500 be returned within the next 5 working days. This deposit is due to be returned to me as it was paid in conjunction with a finance deal and as such forms part of that deal and is considered to be a payment linked to that agreement which I am entitled to cancel and has not been started yet. Please confirm to me in writing that the deal is cancelled and you have performed the refund. Cancelling the order has been a hugely difficult decision to make and I wish to thank everyone at the dealership for their assistance. I am sure that we can put the matter behind us and that I will use your services in the future. In that case, was your contract with Broadspeed, not Porsche? What does it say on the paperwork you signed with Porsche?

In the case of the old purchase with Broadspeed, they simply put me in touch with a dealer offering the best discount and they charge a small fee for this service. The contract for the purchase was with an Audi dealer at the time, but Broadspeed simply offered advice on cancelling the original order to ensure my deposit was returned. The deposit for the 992 GTS has been paid directly to the Porsche dealer and my understanding is that it’s fully refundable like the deposit I paid for the Audi 10 years ago. My main question is are there significant discounts to be had on factory ordered 992 GTSs? If some buyers are now getting significant discounts then I’ll push for a better deal than I’ve already got. If the best deals anyone is getting on a new 992 is only a couple of thousand off MSRP then I can drive away happy that I’m paying a similar amount to everyone else.

Jamie-0nptw said: The deposit for the 992 GTS has been paid directly to the Porsche dealer and my understanding is that it’s fully refundable like the deposit I paid for the Audi 10 years ago. Have you read the paperwork you signed?

Jamie-0nptw said: I’ve read a lot on this thread about the current discounts on new Porsches, especially on Taycans. I have a new 992 GTS arriving at the dealers in the next couple of weeks, and would be interested to know the level of discount other forum members have been offered on cars built to their own spec rather than on delivery mileage or nearly new cars. I’ve seen some very tempting deals on low mileage 2023 911 GTSs but none of these are quite the right spec for me. I know in the current market I’m going to take a big hit on depreciation as I drive out of the showroom but it will definitely soften the blow if the dealer can offer a decent discount. I was considering financing the car through Oracle, Charles & Dean or Forza if the Porsche Finance rates don’t drop this month, but if sticking with Porsche Finance can help get a discount on the car then that’s definitely an option worth considering. Many thanks Jamie I had discussed a deal around 10% but this was about 3months back with them stipulating porsche finance. But when you compare that to the likes of Forza (Santander) for example whilst you may have 10% off half of that is taken up in Porsche finance interest costs. so 5% off list is crap in this climate. If you shop around now you can see some new 992's are going for over 10% off without the condition of the current ripoff Porsche finance fees. I would reason with your dealer about how times have changed since your purchase and see how they are willing to negotiate, be firm but fair, remember they are purely business minded also and don't care about the car bankrupting you, they are focused on getting sales on that board.

kenofkens said: I had discussed a deal around 10% but this was about 3months back with them stipulating porsche finance. But when you compare that to the likes of Forza (Santander) for example whilst you may have 10% off half of that is taken up in Porsche finance interest costs. so 5% off list is crap in this climate. If you shop around now you can see some new 992's are going for over 10% off without the condition of the current ripoff Porsche finance fees. I would reason with your dealer about how times have changed since your purchase and see how they are willing to negotiate, be firm but fair, remember they are purely business minded also and don't care about the car bankrupting you, they are focused on getting sales on that board. Interesting to hear some dealers are offering as much as 10% discount on a 992. Was this off a factory order or from a new car in dealer stock?

Jamie-0nptw said: said: I had to cancel an order for an Audi Q5 about 10 years ago as I decided to purchase an SQ5 through another dealer following a promotion at work. The new car was purchased via Broadspeed.com and the guy I was dealing with was familiar with the regulations and drafted the sample letter below. EXAMPLE. Further to my recent telephone conversation with yourselves I am writing to confirm that I no longer wish to purchase from you a new Audi Q5. I request my deposit of £500 be returned within the next 5 working days. This deposit is due to be returned to me as it was paid in conjunction with a finance deal and as such forms part of that deal and is considered to be a payment linked to that agreement which I am entitled to cancel and has not been started yet. Please confirm to me in writing that the deal is cancelled and you have performed the refund. Cancelling the order has been a hugely difficult decision to make and I wish to thank everyone at the dealership for their assistance. I am sure that we can put the matter behind us and that I will use your services in the future. Word of advice… I wouldn’t use that letter with the OPC. While you may have received your deposit back, 10 years ago, it was likely because the dealer simply couldn’t be bothered arguing the toss, rather than the substance of the letter itself. Ultimately, your contract with the dealer will be the deciding factor, so let us know how you fare. Edited by andyeds1234 on Monday 1st January 23:25

Cancelling the finance is not the same as cancelling the order.

Just curious, if you placed an order a year back, paid a 10% deposit and say rates were 5% on pcp, when it comes to the time the car is ready, is your finance agreement based on the original rate or whatever the current rate is at the time of collection?

Youforreal. said: Just curious, if you placed an order a year back, paid a 10% deposit and say rates were 5% on pcp, when it comes to the time the car is ready, is your finance agreement based on the original rate or whatever the current rate is at the time of collection? If you signed your finance agreement, it’s the rate and terms which is agreed within this agreement. Opc aren’t daft mind, they will not have you sign a finance agreement if your cars not coming for a year. Sounds like the original poster now has regrets due to a change in market, which isn’t a surprise as plenty of others have hence the 400 plus new 992 cars available in the Uk! Be interesting to know if he does cancel if he is able able to get his deposit back in full.

If you have not signed the finance agreement, then I suspect your best realistic approach will be to say that the monthly payments (with the increased interest rates) are just too high and perhaps illustrate that by showing what they would have been with the prevailing interest rates when you first ordered the car Difficult to know if there will be some movement on price, but if your dealer has a few new 992s with a discounted price that might a decent card to play as well Good luck

If you ordered a year ago, isn''t the price you're paying about 10% below the current price, which is about where they are discounting to now. If you have an order at a price 10% below current list, then the chances of getting a discount on that seem very slim and a lot of risk to try to execute.

Cancelling a factory order with bespoke to you spec will not be as simple as you would like. If you have gone for a pretty generic spec and colour you have more chance though. Asking for a retrospective discount I would guess would result in them laughing but you have nothing to lose by asking. I would also certainly ask for the lowest finance rate possible - is the agreement rate you signed ( assuming you did ) lower than what is available now though ?

Guyr said: If you ordered a year ago, isn''t the price you're paying about 10% below the current price, which is about where they are discounting to now. If you have an order at a price 10% below current list, then the chances of getting a discount on that seem very slim and a lot of risk to try to execute. No, you can't have an MY24 car at MY23 pricing unless the dealer agrees to discount the car (or there is some other manufacturer incentive in place). The new pricing would have been confirmed to the buyer before spec lock and at that point I imagine you could pull out of the deal without loss (though I don't have first hand experience of this) if the new MY24 price is unsatisfactory. That is the point in time when negotiation should be done.

Jamie-0nptw said: If I cancelled my order the dealer would probably have to discount the car to sell it, so there’s potentially still time to negotiate on the price if other dealers are offering significant discounts. I’m sure the dealer would prefer to offer some money off the car to secure the sale rather than it going into stock and being stuck in the showroom for a few months. I appreciate it’s not ideal and I’d normally have negotiated the discount when I placed the order but this just wasn’t something that was possible at a time when cars were selling for over list. If the value of your Porsche had gone up 20% since you placed the order and the Porsche dealer wanted to re-negotiate your purchase price up by 10% how would you feel? Would you be on here as an aggrieved buyer? A contract is an agreement and should be treated as such. .

Nuttcase said: No, you can't have an MY24 car at MY23 pricing unless the dealer agrees to discount the car (or there is some other manufacturer incentive in place). The new pricing would have been confirmed to the buyer before spec lock and at that point I imagine you could pull out of the deal without loss (though I don't have first hand experience of this) if the new MY24 price is unsatisfactory. That is the point in time when negotiation should be done. Yep. My understanding was that when the order is locked, the price is locked. Before then, if the price goes up you can choose to withdraw from the deal and reclaim your deposit. After that point, the dealer could keep your deposit if you chose to withdraw.

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: Nuttcase said: No, you can't have an MY24 car at MY23 pricing unless the dealer agrees to discount the car (or there is some other manufacturer incentive in place). The new pricing would have been confirmed to the buyer before spec lock and at that point I imagine you could pull out of the deal without loss (though I don't have first hand experience of this) if the new MY24 price is unsatisfactory. That is the point in time when negotiation should be done. Yep. My understanding was that when the order is locked, the price is locked. Before then, if the price goes up you can choose to withdraw from the deal and reclaim your deposit. After that point, the dealer could keep your deposit if you chose to withdraw. In 2009 I bought a Cayman S. when it was ordered the price was stated. At time of spec lock the price was confirmed but the contract contained a specific caveat. In January 2010 VAT was going back up and it specially stated that if the car was delayed so as to be impacted by that rise the pride would then be x and you had to sign it. Thankfully it was delivered in early December as planned and saved me about £1800

craigjm said: In 2009 I bought a Cayman S. when it was ordered the price was stated. At time of spec lock the price was confirmed but the contract contained a specific caveat. In January 2010 VAT was going back up and it specially stated that if the car was delayed so as to be impacted by that rise the pride would then be x and you had to sign it. Thankfully it was delivered in early December as planned and saved me about £1800 Brings back happy memories of when I took delivery of my GT3 - car was going to arrive in Feb 2010 but I saved the additional 2.5% VAT rise by paying for the car in December.

Charles and Dean just emailed saying they are seeing new lower rates from their lenders. No mention of what they are in their email though…I guess that’s the carrot on the end of the stick.

fellatthefirst said: Charles and Dean just emailed saying they are seeing new lower rates from their lenders. No mention of what they are in their email though…I guess that’s the carrot on the end of the stick. Nothing special. Just 9.9% from Aldermore.

fellatthefirst said: Charles and Dean just emailed saying they are seeing new lower rates from their lenders. No mention of what they are in their email though…I guess that’s the carrot on the end of the stick. similar text from oracle finance today and have asked what to .. low 4's maybe ????

john-j4ty0 said: fellatthefirst said: Charles and Dean just emailed saying they are seeing new lower rates from their lenders. No mention of what they are in their email though…I guess that’s the carrot on the end of the stick. similar text from oracle finance today and have asked what to .. low 4's maybe ???? high 9 's but most are in 10's I'm told so massive drop indeed !

Went to look at various car options with a friend yesterday at one of those car supermarket places. As you would expect with the current economic climate for used cars the prices were keen and realistic, but then we were told something by the staff that seemed a little strange. They said that if we didn't use their finance and wanted to use another financier the sticker price on the cars we were looking at would instantly rise by £1,500... So the question is, is this practice legal..?

It's illegal to refuse to sell a car if the only reason is that you are not using their finance ... but if using their finance enable them to offer you a price contribution of £1500, then I guess that might be legal ? It's like the mortgage cash-back deals that were available .... exchanging cash now in exchange for future costs (plus interest) ...