Steel Brake lines

Has anyone installed or have any experience with Steel Braided brake lines on a the Cayman ?

try this link http://www.stableenergies.com/searchprods.asp I'm sure there are others. jim

Goodridge is the standard in brake lines. We have been selling/installing these lines for about 10 years. Fit and finish is second to none. Click here for more info. http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/sha...art_detail.cfm?PMaI=2&PMoI=40&PEI=28&PP=cayman_brakes.cfm&PPT=Brakes&IL=SSLines

Steel brake lines and ABS Have there been any reports of ABS problems with the steel braided brake lines. I know some Corvettes (C5 and C6) reported throwing an ABS code when they went to the steel lines. Seemed to be brand specific but never did hear if they found a cause.

Mike Seeing them on you website is what sparked my interest. I have use Steel Braided lines on my motorcycles to improve breaking for years. I was wondering if anyone in the club has used the on a Cayman . Can you tell us more about the Cayman application?

Good question!! What Brand?

Not really much to tell. They are a direct fit with no modification needed. As always, pedal feel is more precise. In addition they are far more resistant to heat. They will not swell like a rubber line.

Dan our Inventory Manager had Goodridge send us a spec sheet on why their products are the best. Thanks Dan! A.W.E. Tuning has been partnered with Goodridge for the last 10 years. We are proud to be one of their distributors. D.O.T. Compliant and TUV Certified SS Brake Lines Goodridge stainless steel braided brake lines are an industry standard in the world of motor racing. This technology is now widely available for most makes and models of road car in two distinct formats: Standard 600-03 hose and Colourflex coloured hose. Goodridge kits feature the finest quality stainless steel braided hose, which improves braking performance, eliminates the spongy feel of rubber hoses and provides superior resistance to corrosion. Hose end fittings are available in zinc plated steel as standard, with stainless steel fittings also available for the professional finish. Goodridge brake line kits provide the reliability and performance demanded by the top racing teams, available for your vehicle. All Goodridge G-Stop Brake Line Kits are covered by our industry leading "Guaranteed Forever" life time warrantee. Top Selling Points for Goodridge G-Stop Brake Line Kits 1. Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake Lines eliminate the spongy feel experienced with OE rubber brake lines. 2. Goodridge G-Stop Brake Line Kits improve braking by 5-10%**Results will vary depending on Pad/Rotor/Tire combination. 3. Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake lines are guaranteed forever against any manufacturer defects. 4. Every Goodridge G-Stop kit is DOT Compliant and TUV Certified. 5. Goodridge Pressure Test's all lines before they are sold . 6. Goodridge offers the most complete listing of Brake Line Applications with over 1000 US applications available. 7. Goodridge was the first company to bring Stainless Steel Brake lines to the aftermarket. 8. Goodridge has been supplying brake line components for over 35 years. 9. Goodridge is the only Stainless Steel Brake line manufacturer that meets any Government or Regulatory Standard World Wide. 10. Goodridge Specs all its kits from the OE Rubber Lines 11. Goodridge uses the best Stainless Steel Braided hose manufactured to our own rigorous standards. 12. Goodridge Stainless Steel Braided Line has exceeded the industry standard whip test of 36hrs.

Is there any real benefit to installing stainless steel brake lines on a car that will only see occasional track days? Apparently the GT3 cup cars are delivered with the same rubber brake lines as the Cayman , and according to several of the techs on the PCA Tech Q&A section, these lines are more than adequate. Also, several of the techs stated that the SS lines need to be changed out quite regularly. Is this still true? I am willing to make the switch if there is true value, but I am not excited about additional maintenance.

The PCA crowd does not seem to like any non Porsche mods....I like the stainless lines I've had on other cars for a firmer pedal and better feel. I've never heard of them having to be replaced at all, much less, more often.

I just has stainless steel brake lines installed (by Mantis) last week, so it's a little early to comment on any change in feel. I'm not sure the brand, but I don't think they're Goodridge. I do expect the brake feel to be firmer and a little more consistent, and there should be no increased maintenance issues. Just waiting for spring and the opportunity to track test them.

Stainless Brake Lines Mike is right! Stainless brake lines, properly made and installed, will not interfere with the braking system. You will notice more linear brake pedal feel and on track this will be more pronounced. Rubber brake lines will expand with heat and pressure, the older they are the more this is true. Although fine for daily street driving, this can produce "longer" pedal feel on track, especially when the brake fluid heats up. I don't think PCA frowns on steel brake lines, we use them on all of our track cars with no recourse. We would not build a race car with-out them. Stan

stan, what brand do you use and sell for the cayman ?

Thanks to all for your response.

The real advantage of PTFE lined hose with stainless braid is heat and chemical resistance. Teflon can withstand high temperatures and a great variety of chemicals without breaking down. Stainless steel only describes the braiding. This is what gives the hose its burst resistance. It is likely that SS braided PTFE hoses also carry higher working and burst pressure ratings from the factory than standard rubber brake hose assemblies. I am not sure about volumetric expansion, but if it were less for teflon, then a firmer pedal would be the result. The disadvantages of teflon are that once it has been kinked, it can be seriously compromised. Be sure to only use hose assemblies that have been manufactured to USDOT standards and inspect them regularly.

Yes it is more than the braided steel and improper installation or un-attended damage to the lines is not a good thing. This is why there are two types of braided steel brake lines, DOT approved and not. The non-DOT are for racing applications only and, as such, are the responsibility of the mechanics to inspect and replace as required. The DOT approved lines are what we would recommend for street/track applications and, properly fitted, work well. Craig, we have ours "Made to Measure" by a local firm who specializes in performance applications. They provide both types to us depending on the requirements we give them. They probably use similar materials (or buy it from Goodridge or their supplier). Stan

I got Goodridge SS lines, Pagid Yellows and Elf (French brand) brake fluid installed in my Cayman S about 2 weeks ago and the difference in brake feel and action is huge (previous set up was bone stock). I track my car and to B-road drives with the Porsche Club here regularly, so stopping is obviously an important aspect of my car. My goals were to get rid of the following issues: - Lack of initial bite when applying pressure (whether on the street or the track) - Spongy brake feel after several laps - Brake fade - Prevention of potential brake system failure The Pagids Yellows do squeal, and I sort of rue the fact that I didn't just order and wait for Oranges (from a cost perspective), but the stopping power is amazing with the Yellows, and honestly worth the cost. The combination of the lines and the pads do help in improving overall brake feel. The brakes now begin to bite within the first inch of pedal travel, and have strong feedback from that point to the end of their travel, and they do not let up. Only complaint: The sound of cold brakes = one pissed-off cat rappeling down a chalkboard with his bare claws.

SS Brake Lines Installed OK, I (we) did it. Today we installed Goodridge stainless steel brake lines (purchased from AWE) and replaced the stock brake fluid with Pentosin Racing Brake Fluid and all seems to have gone well (once I found the bleed valve on the clutch slave cylinder). The "we" is mpollard and me. We had a fun time orchestrating the jack stand placement, but we did it. Once the car was in the air the replacement of the lines went rather smooth (mpollard may disagree) and I think he got a nice workout for his right leg as we labored through the pump and hold sequence of a manual brake bleed. mpollard did take some pictures, but I threatened his CS is he posts them.

So, Krokodil, give us an analysis of the before and after feel, response, etc.

Initial Feedback Well, it is has only been about 24 hrs with the stainless steel lines installed, but I did drive about 110 miles today in a mix of freeway and city streets. I may be delusional in looking for value in the installation on the brake lines, but I believe the pedal is noticeably firmer without being intrusive. The feel reminds me somewhat of the brakes in the only pure race car I have ever driven. I like it. Now, I did not get the brakes very hot so I can not yet compare the feel at higher temperatures. This will need to wait for a track day later in the month. The next step is to drive the car back to back with a CS without the SS lines and form a real comparison. I believe mpollard had volunteered his Speed Yellow.

This is the exact route I’ll be taking. Ordering through AWE in the AM as my 10% discount will take affect from my Cat-back purchase, I missed the XMAS discount. PS: D I received your PM… Thanks. zornet

depends on what you mean by "see a difference".... the difference in pedal feel is very noticible where ever you are driving. It is much firmer and without any 'flex' or sponginess. On the track this equates to more positive feedback and feel in the pedal and better brake control, so you "see a difference" in lap times. On the street it becomes more of a personal preference thing. Can you break fully and effectively with OE rubber lines in all street situations? yes...without a doubt. Do you need the added edge on the street to fully enjoy the car? I doub't it. But if you like the way it feels better, than why not? especially if you do track cars and are used to a firm pedal. Its far from a delusion...its simple physics. The pedal is firmer. The car can be parked in a garage and you will "see a difference" in the feel....

I didn't read all the other replies so sorry if this is a repeat... SS lines are a waste of money on any high end sports car. The stock lines are very good. You don't need them on the Cayman .

Here is a wonderful tech doc from the Goodridge website. PLENTY of tech info regarding the differences between rubber and braided. http://www.goodridge.net/usa/pdf/all_markets/Goodridge_stainless_v_rubber.pdf

I have never used SS brake lines so I don't know the real benefit although I am anxious to try. However, I am wondering why they wouldn't put this as standard on something like a GT3 ? I can't see it being a cost issue for a $100K+ car?

Because the ones they provide are perfectly fine. Like I said before, putting SS lines on a Cayman is a waste of time and money.

I think sleepless is probably right, but I ordered them and will have them installed this week. As a mod they are cheap and uncontraversial and if there is a psychological benefit, cool. It is fun to mod the car.

I claim that on the Cayman S , you cannot feel the difference between stock lines and the stainless lines, all other things being equal. The reason I add the qualifer is because in my experience, the only people that notice the difference after they install SS lines also changed the brake fluid and or they bled the brake system which had air in the lines or old fluid. If put SS lines on many modern cars just to see if they made a difference, and not once did I feel a difference. Certainly never anything along the lines of "pedal too stiff" or "too touchy"; not even close. Now, on an older car, one that is 4 or so years old where the stock lines have had some time to age, then yes, the SS lines are worth.

Hmm....??? maybe we are entering a debate similar to the one audiophiles have about speaker wires. Some people hear the difference of high end cables and some never will. The debate is never solved. But the difference in expansion of rubber lines vs braided lines under normal breaking pressure is measurable and significant, so I do not understand why someone would not feel it. It is like night and day to me on any car or bike that I have changed lines on. I haven't done my cayman yet mostly only due to a lack of time and it being winter, but they are 1st in line by spring. I hate the extra travel I get from expansion and its not the fluid compressing. The OE fluid is long gone. dw

I think that the point is that the immediate comparisons are actually between a system with standard lines, not bled, and SS lines, which have after installation been bled. Hence the difference. I am also of the opinion that if one were to bleed the standard system, one would feel a noticable difference, even with the standard lines. Of course, YMMV. w

Consider this: Cars come standard with conventional (not braided steel) brake hoses because they are able to be inspected easily, meaning that they feel spongy or show deterioration as they start to breakdown. Maybe, they even gradually start to seep or leak. The stainless steel variety, non-DOT approved being worse, have no tell-tale sign of failure, they just fail. And that isn't how we want cars on the highways with 100,000 miles carrying kids and old people to behave. So, I recommend using the hoses on the car for any car that will be operated on public roadways - with scheduled inspections/replacement. DOT approved stainless steel, if you must, but I would make sure they had some sort of periodic inspection criterion in place, since they won't "feel" bad before failure ...

Sadly I have to agree. I had a stainless steel brake line failure on a race car (which obviously was inspected and worked great until all of a sudden they didn't) at the end of the straight at Summit Point. Not an experience I would like to repeat.