Which 991.2 GT Car Be a High Value Collectible? GT2 RS? - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi All, My goal has always been to enjoy as many fun cars as I can with a hope to be able to hold on to a few highly collectible cars that I have enjoyed and shared with my kids, so they can one day enjoy them or sell them. I currently have every GT car of the .2 generation and with changes to the garage and the Speedster coming (I am optimistic of an allocation), I need to let some cars go as I don’t have the space or budget to keep them all forever. I have been driving the .2 3RS a great deal and I love it. I love the high revving engine, looks and the cars driving personality. I am beginning to learn to track but my skills are not anywhere near being able to push a 2RS. I am a couple years away at best. The 3RS is a better fit for that. I am considering letting the 2RS go as values are dipping and I am not driving it much. My thought was that unless values shoot up, I could pickup another one in a few years when I could actually safely push it on track. However, I am concerned with selling the 2RS in fear it will be regarded down the line as a highly iconic car and possibly the last Turbo 2RS, as I assume the next one in 5 plus years could be a hybrid. On the flip side, worldwide production of the 2RS is quite high compared to previous generation 2RSs and even the 911R. Please share your thoughts as this is a big stable decision for me and I appreciate the advice. Will 2RS prices go back up and continue to rise? Have prices stabilised? Will values continue to go down? Thank you for taking the time to read this and share your thoughts.

Defo won't be the GT2 RS... If you have every GT3RS .2 (996 was only .1, 997.2 and 991.2) then keep them. GT2's apart from the 6 993's in RHD have never been overly loved.... i am yet to speak to an owner of a 991 GT2 RS who has convinced me he/or she is in love with it. Apart from back tracking to values yada yada. miles better cars to have your money tied up in IMHO.

First of all i enjoy reading your posts both here and across the pond..I'm not qualified to give expert advice just my unbiased opinion.IMHO all contemporary current GT Porsches will see a price correction downwards in the next two years.This is as much to do with the overall state of the UK economy as well as the over supply of Porsche GT cars recently. If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. I suspect the 991.2 GT3 RS will see a very significant price correction as the darling will be the WP version coming in the second batch next year..However personally i prefer the 9k NASP compared the the 700HP Turbo as the extra power can never be used on UK roads unless you track it. None of this has helped your decision making process but on balance i would keep the Touring..

Taffy, surely you remember that the Touring is not a GT3!?

I think you’ve answered your own question. The one thing we definitely don’t k ow is whether the next GT3 and RS will be naturally aspirated. If the 991,2 cars are the last N/A they will hold their value very well. We already know the next 2 RS will be a Turbocharged monster...maybe with some additional tech. Is your GT3 a Touring?

2010spy said: Taffy, surely you remember that the Touring is not a GT3!? I've always liked the Touring and can't remember making any negative comment against it..I wish i'd specced mine as a Touring but since mine was an early allocation,not much was known about it then..

Taffy66 said: IMHO all contemporary current GT Porsches will see a price correction downwards in the next two years. A gorgeous 997.2 GT3 RS, 1 owner, 12k miles UK car has just (tonight) sold for £140k at RM Auctions - £30-50k less than others advertised... Taffy66 said: If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. Er, that's exactly what you'd be! Buy it (if you can) and enjoy it, life's too short!

Taffy66 said: I've always liked the Touring and can't remember making any negative comment against it..I wish i'd specced mine as a Touring but since mine was an early allocation,not much was known about it then.. Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting you’d said anything. I was referring to our friend on the forum who doesn’t think the Touring is a GT3.

2010spy said: Sorry, I wasn’t suggesting you’d said anything. I was referring to our friend on the forum who doesn’t think the Touring is a GT3. I haven't the foggiest who you could be referring to..

Taffy66 said: First of all i enjoy reading your posts both here and across the pond..I'm not qualified to giveaway expert advice just my unbiased opinion.IMHO all contemporary current GT Porsches will see a price correction downwards in the next two years.This is as much to do with the overall state of the UK economy as well as the over supply of Porsche GT cars recently. If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. I suspect the 991.2 GT3 RS will see a very significant price correction as the darling will be the WP version coming in the second batch next year..However personally i prefer the 9k NASP compared the the 700HP Turbo as the extra power can never be used on UK roads unless you track it. None of this has helped your decision making process but on balance i would keep the Touring.. Thank you for your well thought through repose. I appreciate it. Cheib said: I think you’ve answered your own question. The one thing we definitely don’t k ow is whether the next GT3 and RS will be naturally aspirated. If the 991,2 cars are the last N/A they will hold their value very well. We already know the next 2 RS will be a Turbocharged monster...maybe with some additional tech. Is your GT3 a Touring? She may not be to everyone’s taste, but she is mine and I love her. https://instagram.com/p/BnRfTS0Fn35/

Looks great. Where is that car wash on your Insta? Looks great.

Taffy66 said: I've always liked the Touring and can't remember making any negative comment against it..I wish i'd specced mine as a Touring but since mine was an early allocation,not much was known about it then.. I think the agreesive yet subtle look of Touring is quite special. I am super tempted to put her on a diet and buy a full inconel exhaust and lightweight battery. I would love to put some Wag wheels too but those are a bit too pricey at the moment.

Jim1556 said: Taffy66 said: If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. Er, that's exactly what you'd be! I'm genuinely interested what one might be able to call selling a Speedster asap for max profit as advised anything other than flipping. Perhaps the 'true Porsche cognoscenti' might be able to enlighten 'the great unwashed' such as myself...

2010spy said: Looks great. Where is that car wash on your Insta? Looks great. Thank you. Some people think it is want to be 911r, but I absolutely love it. I had the wheel lip diamond cut so it was a close match to the window trim. The 3RS car wash pic is in Ibiza. She is on her way back at the moment. Some amazing driving there. The 2RS car wash pics are in London at Chelsea Cloisters I got some beautiful drone footage of the 3RS which I will post soon.

Thanks! It looks purposeful! Mines GT Silver, and looks very subtle. Thanks for info on Car awash! Will pay a visit.

isaldiri said: I'm genuinely interested what one might be able to call selling a Speedster asap for max profit as advised anything other than flipping. Perhaps the 'true Porsche cognoscenti' might be able to enlighten 'the great unwashed' such as myself... Obviously my rather feeble attempt at dry humour has escaped some more serious and sensitive individuals..FWIW i have never flipped a car, however always ready with some helpful financial advice..

Keep the cars you like to drive esp if you speced them personally for you. One is a long time dead and money don't help 6 feet under. Or sell the T and GT2 RS for a 911R and 997.2 RS 4.0 if future value matter as those 2 are the rarest.

Jim1556 said: Taffy66 said: IMHO all contemporary current GT Porsches will see a price correction downwards in the next two years. A gorgeous 997.2 GT3 RS, 1 owner, 12k miles UK car has just (tonight) sold for £140k at RM Auctions - £30-50k less than others advertised... Taffy66 said: If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. Er, that's exactly what you'd be! Buy it (if you can) and enjoy it, life's too short! DON'T FORGET THE FEES £££'S

BrntRubber said: She may not be to everyone’s taste, but she is mine and I love her. https://instagram.com/p/BnRfTS0Fn35/ IF Touring's become cars collectors seek out they will be absolutely standard spec and low mileage...so you'll need a set of OEM wheels as per your build spec and any other modifications you do make sure they are 100% reversible if you want your car to be valuable. Oh and preferably don't drive it! Alternatively just enjoy it! If you really want a collector's car you need to buy one and lock it away. If that's what you want to do find a LHD PTS car and keep it for twenty years. Trouble is though that 20 years ago not many people thought like that so when a PTS 993 RS comes up with bugger all miles on it it goes for amazing money...I think there are a lot of people doing that now so I think that game has gone.

If I had to call the biggest % gainers over list for say next 3-5 years. My $$$ would be on. 991GT2RS 991 R 991GT3 Touring. Though its a shame in my opinion to look at these cars in this way. Money comes and goes. But difficult to put a price on just how much fun these cars are to drive. Another great afternoon at Silverstone this week. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 09:00

APOLO1 said: If I had to call the biggest % gainers over list for say next 3-5 years. My $$$ would be on. 991GT2RS 991 R 991GT3 Touring. I think the winged manual GT3 CS will be the biggest gain in % if the next one is turbo if you go from todays prices as the R is already £350k and the 2RS £400k. Yes I own one, but take that out and not to be bias, it's the pinnacle of what Porsche can do with a Manual NA GT car as it stands and the best value atm so stands to gain the most going by that. plus the likes of Lambo and Ferrari cannot match it, but they have cars which match or are even better than the PDK cars and Porsche next GT2 will be faster and better again. But it does depend on the next GT3 model of course. doom and gloom talks the 991.2 GT3 prices down every day on here plus it's not an RS model, but going forward I cannot see how a manual CS GT3 can drop long term, it's stands on it's own as the best Manual GT3 they have ever made does it not ? and maybe as little as 50 cars in the UK to boot. 911R is the real deal as is the 997.2 RS 4.0 those 2 are my safe bets due to how rare they are. But I would keep an eye on the 991.2 Manual GT3 club sport it could well shock in years to come.

Porsche911R said: I think the winged manual GT3 CS will be the biggest gain in % if the next one is turbo if you go from todays prices as the R is already £350k and the 2RS £400k. Yes I own one, but take that out and not to be bias, it's the pinnacle of what Porsche can do with a Manual NA GT car as it stands and the best value atm so stands to gain the most going by that. plus the likes of Lambo and Ferrari cannot match it, but they have cars which match or are even better than the PDK cars and Porsche next GT2 will be faster and better again. But it does depend on the next GT3 model of course. doom and gloom talks the 991.2 GT3 prices down every day on here plus it's not an RS model, but going forward I cannot see how a manual CS GT3 can drop long term, it's stands on it's own as the best Manual GT3 they have ever made does it not ? and maybe as little as 50 cars in the UK to boot. 911R is the real deal as is the 997.2 RS 4.0 those 2 are my safe bets due to how rare they are. But I would keep an eye on the 991.2 Manual GT3 club sport it could well shock in years to come. Is the club sport a track only car? I am not familiar with it.

APOLO1 said: If I had to call the biggest % gainers over list for say next 3-5 years. My $$$ would be on. 991GT2RS 991 R 991GT3 Touring. All the above peaked 6-12 months ago and are now going through a price correction. Safe money if you bought at list as they'll always stay above and if they ever do drop below we'll have bigger things to worry about. The next 3-5 years will be a sensible time to buy, IMO.

Phooey said: All the above peaked 6-12 months ago and are now going through a price correction. Safe money if you bought at list as they'll always stay above and if they ever do drop below we'll have bigger things to worry about. The next 3-5 years will be a sensible time to buy, IMO. I agree the cars above, as in the 991R, GT3T and 2RS peaked a while back whist they were still in production as far as the UK market is concerned. But the over list, as in the" Market" price will always be on shifting sands whist a car is still in production. I have been driving 911s for almost 40 years. The 3 cars that I mention above are about the best driving 911s I have ever driven. I agree also that there might be a better buying opportunity from todays prices. But my point was that the cream will always rise to the top, Just like the 99740RS did. Give it until around 20/21 when Cap 6d comes in and it all has to go E-HB tech, easy call in my opinion taking into account the low Nos for RHD and just how good the cars are to drive. That they will be at a "Market" price above there previous highs, for low mile cars. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 12:26

APOLO1 said: I agree the cars above, as in the 991R, GT3T and 2RS peaked a while back whist they were still in production as far as the UK market is concerned. But the over list, as in the" Market" price will always be on shifting sands whist a car is still in production. I have been driving 911s for almost 40 years. The 3 cars that I mention above are about the best driving 911s I have ever driven. I agree also that there might be a better buying opportunity from todays prices. But my point was that the cream will always rise to the top, Just like the 99740RS did. Give it until around 20/21 when Cap 6d comes in and it all has to go E-HB tech, easy call in my opinion taking into account the low Nos for RHD and just how good the cars are to drive. That they will be at a "Market" price above there previous highs, for low mile cars. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 12:26 I am surprised the Speedster isn’t one of the list, considering it will likely be numbered, manual and NA with 3RS engine

BrntRubber said: I am surprised the Speedster isn’t one of the list, considering it will likely be numbered, manual and NA with 3RS engine Only making a reference to 991 Past and present.

@burntrubber, I agree with those who say keep your nat asp stuff and sell the 2RS, unless you have easy access to use a track as and when you like. What’s the highest price we think a 991R has traded at? I remember one seeking for approx eur500k at an auction 2 years ago, which must be approx £440-450k, now RM have sold two delivery mileage examples in the past few weeks at approx £291k hammer (London) and US$379k hammer (Monterey) JZM one looks a bit ambitious now at £350k at the moment. Edited by PS2018 on Thursday 6th September 14:26

BrntRubber said: I am surprised the Speedster isn’t one of the list, considering it will likely be numbered, manual and NA with 3RS engine As i mentioned in my rather cryptic/humourous previous post i firmly believe that the Speedster will be the one to get if you apply a modicum of financial nous to the buying decision. Last of the NASP with the manual potentially and restricted build with plaques. And as a keen anti-flipper i'm not advocating flipping it but a fantastic long term investment..You can have the cake and eat it at the same time.. Edited by Taffy66 on Thursday 6th September 14:35

Taffy66 said: As i mentioned in my rather cryptic/humourous previous post i firmly believe that the Speedster will be the one to get if you apply a modicum of financial nous to the buying decision. Last of the NASP with the manual potentially and restricted build with plaques. And as a keen anti-flipper i'm not advocating flipping it but a fantastic long term investment..You can have the cake and eat it at the same time.. Edited by Taffy66 on Thursday 6th September 14:35 I appreciate the advice Taffy. Thank you

BrntRubber said: I appreciate the advice Taffy. Thank you Merely my humble opinion, as i'm not qualified to give advice to smarter people than myself.

Is a 991 sport classic going to happen too? Similar amount of units to the speedster?

PS2018 said: Is a 991 sport classic going to happen too? Similar amount of units to the speedster? There’s been zero mention of it. I suppose the Turbo S Exclusive might be a sort of equivalent of it.

Phooey said: APOLO1 said: If I had to call the biggest % gainers over list for say next 3-5 years. My $$$ would be on. 991GT2RS 991 R 991GT3 Touring. All the above peaked 6-12 months ago and are now going through a price correction. Safe money if you bought at list as they'll always stay above and if they ever do drop below we'll have bigger things to worry about. The next 3-5 years will be a sensible time to buy, IMO. Phooey's point is the key. This list could well be the best investments of the 991 generation, but if measured from their current prices I wouldn't be so sure. The first two in particular are currently falling as they try to find their new normal level, and if (for example) 2RS are being offered at 375k now (I've been offered this week at that number) then they've come off a long way and, although won't have that much further to go, it'd be like catching falling knives to predict where they'll settle. Obviously for those in at list they'll always remain good news/free motoring....

DeltaOne said: Phooey's point is the key. This list could well be the best investments of the 991 generation, but if measured from their current prices I wouldn't be so sure. The first two in particular are currently falling as they try to find their new normal level, and if (for example) 2RS are being offered at 375k now (I've been offered this week at that number) then they've come off a long way and, although won't have that much further to go, it'd be like catching falling knives to predict where they'll settle. Obviously for those in at list they'll always remain good news/free motoring.... The 2RS got a little bit ahead of its self from a Market price point when it was first launched. The delay on the WP Option kept the price very high for the few cars that had been delivered at this time. At this time it was "the car", ring time etc. As such demand exceeded the short supply. Now that all UK cars have been delivered and supply has increased the Market price is off its Highs, as expected. I see the floor for the 2RS short term around 350-60k. Like around110-20k over its list. Much in the same way the Gen 2- 3RS Market price is the same amount over its list. But whist there are almost identical amounts of each in play there wont be any more 2RSs, unlike the 3RS which in my opinion will fall further than current market prices. Due to a good amount on the 2nd run next year. With regard to the 991R, I see these prices now very close to the bottom. The one at Auction was what 330k( well over double its list price) after the buyers premium added? which is about 10% below retail ask right now. Also out of the 74 UK cars, very few actually for sale. Those that I know that have them now have no intention of selling. They have all had plenty of opportunity to get out in the 400ks over the past few years. In the not to distant future like 2/4 years out in my opinion, todays prices will be looked on as missed buying opportunities. For those that look on above as such. Personally for me I just enjoy driving them. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 20:30

APOLO1 said: The 2RS got a little bit ahead of its self from a Market price point when it was first launched. The delay on the WP Option kept the price very high for the few cars that had been delivered at this time. Now that all UK cars have been delivered and supply has increased the Market price is off its Highs, as expected. I see the floor for the 2RS short term around 350-60k. Like around110-20k over its list. Much in the same way the Gen 2- 3RS Market price is the same amount over its list. But whist there are almost identical amounts of each in play there wont be any more 2RSs, unlike the 3RS which in my opinion will fall further than current market prices. Due to a good amount on the 2nd run next year. With regard to the 991R, I see these prices now very close to the bottom. The one at Auction was what 330k after the buyers premium added? which is about 10% below retail ask right now. Also out of the 74 UK cars, very few actually for sale. Those that I know that have them now have no intention of selling. They have all had plenty of opportunity to get out in the 400ks over the past few years. In the not to distant future like 2/4 years out in my opinion, todays prices will be looked on as missed buying opportunities. For those that look on these above as such. Personally for me I just enjoy driving them. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 20:19 Thank you for the detailed response. I must say I am shocked at how much 2RS values have dropped. Same market as a 3RS seems disproportionate, as I would expect the 2RS to be more rare and sought after.

APOLO1 said: Now that all UK cars have been delivered and supply has increased the Market price is off its Highs, as expected. I see the floor for the 2RS short term around 350-60k. Like around110-20k over its list. Much in the same way the Gen 2- 3RS Market price is the same amount over its list. But whist there are almost identical amounts of each in play there wont be any more 2RSs, unlike the 3RS which in my opinion will fall further than current market prices. Due to a good amount on the 2nd run next year. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 20:19 This part i agree with as i've heard from a very reliable source that there will be a much larger second batch of GT3 RS.2 coming next March/April.These will be WLTP homologated fitted with the GPF..The bad news is no WLTP .3 RSs will be fitted with the Weissach pack, due to problems with parts suppliers and more importantly the WLTP requirement for a separate homologation for any WP cars..

Taffy66 said: This part i agree with as i've heard from a very reliable source that there will be a much larger second batch of GT3 RS.2 coming next March/April.These will be WLTP homologated fitted with the GPF..The bad news is no WLTP .3 RSs will be fitted with the Weissach pack, due to problems with parts suppliers and more importantly the WLTP requirement for a separate homologation for any WP cars.. Taffy, My dealer told me a few days ago I could have a WP 3RS in April/May. Unless he was just assuming some would be offered with WP. This would be very disappointing as I love carbon. He is normally pretty spot on, but maybe he missed the mark on this one. If your source is right, that is a real bummer.

Taffy66 said: This part i agree with as i've heard from a very reliable source that there will be a much larger second batch of GT3 RS.2 coming next March/April.These will be WLTP homologated fitted with the GPF..The bad news is no WLTP .3 RSs will be fitted with the Weissach pack, due to problems with parts suppliers and more importantly the WLTP requirement for a separate homologation for any WP cars.. So to confirm- we’re getting more 3RS next year? But NO WP cars due to WLTP? Seems like that is a good shout and makes sense

Jim1556 said: Taffy66 said: IMHO all contemporary current GT Porsches will see a price correction downwards in the next two years. A gorgeous 997.2 GT3 RS, 1 owner, 12k miles UK car has just (tonight) sold for £140k at RM Auctions - £30-50k less than others advertised... Taffy66 said: If i was in your shoes i would try my hardest to get the new Speedster and if you want to maximise returns sell it quick for the largest profit.The unfortunate side effect of this is you could be branded a flipper by the great unwashed.. Er, that's exactly what you'd be! Buy it (if you can) and enjoy it, life's too short! The RS would have cost over £k155 with fees .

cormeist said: So to confirm- we’re getting more 3RS next year? But NO WP cars due to WLTP? Seems like that is a good shout and makes sense Don't shoot the messenger but as i understand the WP has already been taken off some countries Configurator websites.This is mainly due to several component supplier issues namely Ti cage, Mag wheels, CF steering wheel etc. Porsche are really struggling with meeting the new stringent WLTP rules on NASP cars resulting in jumping through more hoops to get the WP passed not being viable.

Taffy66 said: This part i agree with as i've heard from a very reliable source that there will be a much larger second batch of GT3 RS.2 coming next March/April.These will be WLTP homologated fitted with the GPF..The bad news is no WLTP .3 RSs will be fitted with the Weissach pack, due to problems with parts suppliers and more importantly the WLTP requirement for a separate homologation for any WP cars.. I agree on good amount of Nos. Are you 100% on no WP at all? I heard that some cars will be available with WP but not the wheels. Whist the light weight WP cage is not FIA approved like the steel one is. Its fine for current homologation purpose.

BrntRubber said: Thank you for the detailed response. I must say I am shocked at how much 2RS values have dropped. Same market as a 3RS seems disproportionate, as I would expect the 2RS to be more rare and sought after. No problem, sorry for a short response above. Just very busy. I would not worry one bit about he 2RS. Its much more than the sum of its parts. The Market has not yet woken up to what a very special car this is in my view. Don't look at its value has dropped. Its just off its highs that's all. Shame you don't get to take it on track. Just not possible to get any place close to what it can do on roads. We have each others Nos. Next time I am at Silverstone I will let you know, happy to take you on few Px laps. Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 6th September 21:03

APOLO1 said: No problem, sorry for a short response above. Just very busy. I would not worry one bit about he 2RS. Its much more than the sum of its parts. The Market has not yet woken up to what a very special car this is in my view. Don't look at its value has dropped. Its just off its highs that's all. Shame you don't get to take it on track. Just not possible to get any place close to what it can do on roads. We have each others Nos. Next time I am at Silverstone I will let you know, happy to take you on few Px laps. That would be great... thanks! I will bring a nappy so I don’t ruin your interior.

Taffy66 said: cormeist said: So to confirm- we’re getting more 3RS next year? But NO WP cars due to WLTP? Seems like that is a good shout and makes sense Don't shoot the messenger but as i understand the WP has already been taken off some countries Configurator websites.This is mainly due to several component supplier issues namely Ti cage, Mag wheels, CF steering wheel etc. Porsche are really struggling with meeting the new stringent WLTP rules on NASP cars resulting in jumping through more hoops to get the WP passed not being viable. Has the factory re opened yet ?

RSVP911 said: Has the factory re opened yet ? Apart from the normal August extended break Porsche are still churning out GT3s and RSs for all non WLTP markets.No more Gt Porsches for EU countries until the second batch of .3RSs next March.

BrntRubber said: Taffy66 said: This part i agree with as i've heard from a very reliable source that there will be a much larger second batch of GT3 RS.2 coming next March/April.These will be WLTP homologated fitted with the GPF..The bad news is no WLTP .3 RSs will be fitted with the Weissach pack, due to problems with parts suppliers and more importantly the WLTP requirement for a separate homologation for any WP cars.. Taffy, My dealer told me a few days ago I could have a WP 3RS in April/May. Unless he was just assuming some would be offered with WP. This would be very disappointing as I love carbon. He is normally pretty spot on, but maybe he missed the mark on this one. If your source is right, that is a real bummer. WP available but theirs a question over the Mag wheels so I was thinking about the Carbon ones if not.

APOLO1 said: In the not to distant future like 2/4 years out in my opinion, todays prices will be looked on as missed buying opportunities I have opposite views. In the next 2-4 years I think today’s prices will be looked on as missed selling opportunities.

I agree with Phooey. That’s what makes forums occasionally fun though!

BrntRubber said: Taffy, My dealer told me a few days ago I could have a WP 3RS in April/May. Unless he was just assuming some would be offered with WP. This would be very disappointing as I love carbon. He is normally pretty spot on, but maybe he missed the mark on this one. If your source is right, that is a real bummer. I don’t think anyone really knows. Why would they show a WP car at Goodwood only last week if it wasn’t coming to the UK? Still, the WP is not on the UK configurator and never has been as far as I know. If you really like the carbon look, you might be able to get the bonnet and rear wing in clear coat as a CXX option as opposed to painted. Door mirrors are already available as an option and you could go after market on the wing vents and side intakes etc, so there are loads of options. That only really leaves the rooof. IMHO, a magnesium roof is cooler than a carbon one from a tech/engineering standpoint anyhow but each to their own. Titanium cage would be cool but it’s not the end of the world and it seems that the mag wheels aren’t coming in any case. There’s a bit of carbon in the suspension which would be handy but will it really make a difference to 99% of us? Will be interesting to see what happens to the engine power with the filter. Porsche have always been conservative with their figures, so maybe they can just put the same number out there. Can’t imagine they will quote a lower figure. Good news if more cars are coming as it helps to prevent the bonkers market that this thread is really about. 2RS is massively over priced in my view and pretty much everything else is on the way down for now. 911R will be the best long term 991 bet as it’s got a plaque, plus the 997 4.0 and the 997.2 RS. Porsche have made an awful lot of 991 GT cars and I don’t see the demand to support the silly values.

DT398 said: 2RS is massively over priced in my view and pretty much everything else is on the way down for now. 911R will be the best long term 991 bet as it’s got a plaque, plus the 997 4.0 and the 997.2 RS. Porsche have made an awful lot of 991 GT cars and I don’t see the demand to support the silly values. The over supply of GT3.2 cars has meant you're lucky to see list back, regardless of what certain owners state. No rocket science this, lots for sale, season finished, 992 shortly and very little moving. Supply outstrips demand and we are where we are. 2RS has taken a thumping, 911R too and both have a way to go, but will trade over list. However the massive 'elefant im raum' which has been totally ignored by the bulls in the market on here is....you can't drive them. Drive these Porsche 'Bonds' and you will take a significant financial thumping, which even the Jay Leno set find hard to accept. I just sold my 997.2RS, which I used as intended, as market softening and whilst a great car, the 991.2 Touring I drove was better in every department. Life's too short to hang on to something when there's alternatives that offer different experiences. I note that some lucky enough to secure an allocation of the .2GT3 are already fidgeting to jump into another marque or model, fickle beasts that we are. So, too many about, too few buying, can't actually drive them unless you're happy to see any potential gain quickly eroded and new model around the corner. Beyond irrational to buy in now. Edited by Robbo66 on Friday 7th September 07:55

Robbo66 said: The over supply of GT3.2 cars has meant you're lucky to see list back, regardless of what certain owners state. No rocket science this, lots for sale, season finished, 992 shortly and very little moving. Supply outstrips demand and we are where we are. 2RS has taken a thumping, 911R too and both have a way to go, but will trade over list. However the massive 'elefant im raum' which has been totally ignored by the bulls in the market on here is....you can't drive them. Drive these Porsche 'Bonds' and you will take a significant financial thumping, which even the Jay Leno set find hard to accept. I just sold my 997.2RS, which I used as intended, as market softening and whilst a great car, the 991.2 Touring I drove was better in every department. Life's too short to hang on to something when there's alternatives that offer different experiences. I note that some lucky enough to secure an allocation of the .2GT3 are already fidgeting to jump into another marque or model, fickle beasts that we are. So, too many about, too few buying, can't actually drive them unless you're happy to see any potential gain quickly eroded and new model around the corner. Beyond irrational to buy in now. Edited by Robbo66 on Friday 7th September 07:55 Great Post! I guess when values have halved people will actually drive them then. Or will we say what a great buying opportunity this is? But only if you don't drive them! Come on everyone, as Magnus Walker says, just get out there and drive! These are such amazing machines. Enjoy them to the max. While you still can

And another thing. If we all kept our cars and everyone saw the big smile on our faces after driving them, just think what that would do to the values!

430scuderia1 said: Defo won't be the GT2 RS... If you have every GT3RS .2 (996 was only .1, 997.2 and 991.2) then keep them. GT2's apart from the 6 993's in RHD have never been overly loved.... i am yet to speak to an owner of a 991 GT2 RS who has convinced me he/or she is in love with it. Apart from back tracking to values yada yada. miles better cars to have your money tied up in IMHO. There was a link to another forum on the 2RS thread of an owner who seemed to love it after a few thousand kms on the Nordschleife Personally I think they will all dip - high production numbers on all 991.2 GT cars - so sell all quickly and buy them back cheaper later would be my financial advice (buy a CGT instead or a 996 RS and a 997 4.0 RS) In terms of which is most fun as a long term keeper of the 991.2 cars - as a track car I would have thought learning how best to drive the GT2 over multiple years would give a lot of pleasure

Robbo66 said: The over supply of GT3.2 cars has meant you're lucky to see list back I just sold my 997.2RS, which I used as intended, as market softening and whilst a great car, the 991.2 Touring I drove was better in every department. you are Chris Harris and I claim my £5 :-) regarding list, people said that about the GT4, it still selling at least £10k over list for the nice spec cars even with >5k miles on them low miles 991.1 GT3 are STILL OVER LIST !!! and GT4 are flying out at the right spec. on the 991.2 it's impossible to say, cars are way over list and selling, I know 3 new owners who paid £25k overs, so try and buy one at list, people do post funny things. Going forward regarding values, no one knows and it 100% depends on the next models engine. But 991.1 would have to be £90k for the 991.2 to be list and top spec 991.1 are still >£10k overs and 5 years old for low mile examples !!! I doubt we will see a 991.2 GT3 at list esp when people are paying £85k for GT4's Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 7th September 09:40

With all the shenanigans in recent years regarding GT cars values and flipping, i can see it coming back to bite Porsche on the bum..This will please McLaren,Lambo etc as it will invariably result in some long time Porsche buyers wanting to try something else.

Porsche911R said: on the 991.2 it's impossible to say, cars are way over list and selling, I know 3 new owners who paid £25k overs, so try and buy one at list, people do post funny things. Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 7th September 09:40 I'm not sure , without using pictures and possibly a thick crayon, how to explain this further. Once more, they are not available at list to buy, but you will need to sell at list or below to vendor, IF you can get them to purchase in first place.

Taffy66 said: With all the shenanigans in recent years regarding GT cars values and flipping, i can see it coming back to bite Porsche on the bum..This will please McLaren,Lambo etc as it will invariably result in some long time Porsche buyers wanting to try something else. I am waiting for the Performante to be sub £200k :-) they are on a nice curve downwards. Porsche market is mad at crazy overs as there are other cars to buy that are far better value. List price Porsche has no equals, overs prices, no thanks they look poor value once over £50k overs, yes Porsche are that good even at £50k they seem to have no equals ! but above that is hard to grasp. £350k for a 911R or £400k for a GT2 RS no thanks. £400k buys you a lot of metal which will give you a far better feeling inside imo.

911R makes a good observation as to how things are at present but the fact remains about oversupply of GT product so there will be an adjustment. Going forward, by far the biggest factor will be what happens in the economy. And with that nobody really knows.

Porsche911R said: I am waiting for the Performante to be sub £200k :-) they are on a nice curve downwards. Porsche market is mad at crazy overs as there are other cars to buy that are far better value. List price Porsche has no equals, overs prices, no thanks they look poor value once over £50k overs, yes Porsche are that good even at £50k they seem to have no equals ! but above that is hard to grasp. £350k for a 911R or £400k for a GT2 RS no thanks. £400k buys you a lot of metal which will give you a far better feeling inside imo. There are a huge selection of non Porsche cars to choose from in the next year for way less than £200k IMO..The Speciale is too rich for me but i'm tracking Scuderias closely as well as Performantes..Both appeal to me for he same reasons, namely desirable badge, mid engine, not too heavy, limited hardcore specials and a screamer of a NASP engine. I'm going to try and avoid catching falling knives so how low will Scuds go shortterm, as long term i think they're a dead cert..

Robbo66 said: I'm not sure , without using pictures and possibly a thick crayon, how to explain this further. Once more, they are not available at list to buy, but you will need to sell at list or below to vendor, IF you can get them to purchase in first place. I am only interested in what it cost to buy one as are most buyers. all this list talk is great until you want to buy one, I find then it's £30k overs min. nothing else matters bar the price to buy one. trade talk is pointless, out of 74 cars owned I have only sold about 3 into the trade !! As for selling above list, I have people who would buy my car above list price, that's along way off £175k dealer prices. people say this on every model it's nothing new, the cars will drop in price till they sell and then go back up once stock has gone and spring 2019 is here. 991.1 did the same as did the GT4. When you filter out all the models this time round there are not really that many for sale, Scud430 wants to buy and cannot find a car as an example, he has been putting wanted adds on PH for over a year and will pay overs for a car, but still cannot find one. OPC only have 8 manual winged cars for sale, not a single bucket seat manual non CS car for sale atm, and the stock is turning over quite well, I notice the cars are not the same 8 as last month(15 for sale last month inc T) this month all 8 are CS cars and 3 new red ones, last month(July) no red cars and only 4 CS and 10 for sale. in fact for the 1st 12 months there was not a single red CS manual car come up for sale. Also 3 Tourings seem to have vanished the last few weeks alone, last month there were 5 or 6 , now only 2. Manuals either in winged or T seem to have a good rolling turn over. I don't follow PDK cars so cannot make any comments on sales in that model. Even JZM don't have a 991.2 GT3 for sale in any flavour. So the doom and gloom is incorrect imo 991.1 prices would have to drop another >£20k to see list prices on 991.2 cars. Once the flippers have got their RS models stock will dry up once dealers drop prices and so the wheels keep turning. Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 7th September 10:46

I actually loved the 3.8L 991.1 GT3 more than the gen 1 4L RS engine because the top end was better IMO..Apart from some engine issues and a paucity of torque at less than 5K revs, when on song it was incredible.

Taffy66 said: I actually loved the 3.8L 991.1 GT3 more than the gen 1 4L RS engine because the top end was better IMO..Apart from some engine issues and a paucity of torque at less than 5K revs, when on song it was incredible. I know what you mean. The last 1k Rpm on the 3.8 991 GT3 was something very special. Have a look at this from 40 Secs in. Oh, and turn the speakers up...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dss44VBDN8

Haha yes I have hit the limiter a few times ....... too busy listening

APOLO1 said: I know what you mean. The last 1k Rpm on the 3.8 991 GT3 was something very special. Have a look at this from 40 Secs in. Oh, and turn the speakers up...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dss44VBDN8 Sounds epic. Don’t think that last 500rpm particularly blunted the Gen1RS, and of course, 9k is now accessible in the Gen2 :-) That noise is a huge chunk of the experience for me, which is why no turbo car can get close, regardless of how fast it might be between the bends.

I have been following the thread with interest. I have driven all the cars Gen 2 GT cars, GT3, GT3RS and GT2RS. I have a GT3, but if I could pick one there is no doubt about it, the 2RS is by far the best car. When I drove it at Silverstone it was flying past the GT3RS cars and made my GT3 feel like a high revving Ford Fiesta, as a matter of fact when I got back in the GT3 it felt like the noise was great but the car was just not accelerating. I was gutted. I hope the new GT3 is turbo charged, It will make it a better/faster car!! As regards to values, in 2020, two years time, it will start again with GT3 and GT3RS cars, but there will not be another GT2RS for another 7 years. So GT2 values will go up over the next couple of years. I can confirm, in my opinion, the best car that Porsche has made, or that I have been lucky enough to drive, is the GT2RS. If I win the lottery this Wednesday, I will employ a Chef, a Personal Trainer and buy a GT2RS to do a track day every week in. Happy Days!!

hunter 66 said: Agree the .2 3 RS seems to be nicely balanced ( mine still on stock set up , but will make some changes ) even on the Dunlops which despite the press do not have the same grip ( are harder compound for sure ) . Which on clear laps is fine as you can carry the speed more but on busy Track days the lack of 6-700 bhp comes into play as you can only pass on the left and everyone hugs the LHS of the track from half way down the straight . Any way irrelevant as not a race and only running safely . Instability on the Ring is natural when pushing hence why the good guys are good and brave .... and I cannot do it . Edited by hunter 66 on Saturday 8th September 11:47 Hi Pete, you and Paul H nearly 60 how did that happen! Those ladies from Bad N be too young for you now! I just sold my 991RS.1 after 10k miles, and 20 track days ended up with 2.75 negative on the front 2.50 negative on the rear, full stiff rear arb, one off full soft on the front with a tad of toe out on the front and tad in on the rear and it was superb. Also a bit of rake to get the weight on the nose. Ditch the front stone guards that screw into the arches and stops most of the rubbing, great on track and still fine for the street:

haha yes , would be young fresh uns now ...... Spoke to SM at JZM about adjustments which about what you suggested , just a bit less as needs more work to get more than 2.40 on the fronts . But I think the .2 is much stiffer so maybe down a few mm in the front and less camber adjustment ( to the max available ) and as you say a small toe in/out adjustment . Plus not sure about the Dunlops. AnywayBeers for sure Edited by hunter 66 on Monday 10th September 19:15

Purple Man said: I have been following the thread with interest. I have driven all the cars Gen 2 GT cars, GT3, GT3RS and GT2RS. Happy Days!! How's the GT2RS ride quality compaired to a GT3RS, harder/softer/the same? Thanks

footsoldier said: Back on values - I’ve done loads of miles in all of them; have done 9000 miles and on 3rd set of tyres on my R. The R is the best all-round experience that anyone who drives one can feel, and will hold value the most. I think there are too many of the others, including the 2RS and there is really very little difference between all of the 3s to make one a star investment. The 2RS is not what a lot of buyers were expecting, and It does take a lot to uncover its talents, which is why I think values are softening as more bail out (as well as the market). It might come back strong, but depends on numbers. The ‘value’ car for me right now would be a LHD .1 GT3RS with a Manthey set up on it. Might not be a good investment, but will be the most fun for your fast depreciating £. I agree re the 991R - it's a genuine limited edition small production car that really is something special - not just a parts bin 'special' like a Sport Classic for example. Only thing is (IMO) for the short-medium term it has peaked, but will come back and I think it will be a wise investment for those that hold onto them. Have to say though, at today's prices (£300k) I'd probably opt for a LHD 997 GT3 4.0 RS - has to become the most sought-after water-cooled 911 of all time?

isaldiri said: Taffy66 said: Footsoldier has experienced issues with his .2RS on the Ring in terms of instability..He's a very experienced ex Racing driver who really knows what he's talking about..The problem was attributed to the extra 50KG over the .3RS which was all hanging over the rear axle.This had a rather surprisingly disproportionate effect on the f/r weight distribution.None of this was solved by altering geo settings and only removing weight would solve it.. His .2RS has less weight over the nose(no LEDs or Front lift) and has the steel cage fitted instead of the Titanium one.This combination would have a detrimental effect on the f/r balance compared to AndrewD's and Apolo's .2RSs.In fact a couple of years ago a well known american car magazine instrumented tested two different 991.1 GT3 RSs..One was much lighter than the other as it had 20kgs+ less weight adding options on the front of the car..This resulted in the heavier optioned car being much better balanced resulting in better handling as a result.. Footsoldiers findings echo that what 'Sportauto's road test found when they tested the .2RS..It seems all variants of the 991 GT cars are overly sensitive to variations in their f/r weight distribution. I'm not sure where you got that he experienced instability at the ring in his car. Most of what he's talking about is the behaviour of the car on a GP style circuit (iirc car overall too soft at the limit, certainly before he changed to the KWs and a lot of weight off the rear). The sportauto tested 2rs was 80kg heavier at the rear than the 3rs (similar spec weissach cars), overall 70kg heavier. Not sure how you got 50kg only over the rear. LEDs and lift I'd suggest are unlikely to change the weight distribution of the car significantly from 37/63 as well. Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 8th September 10:43 Just discovered all this chat :-) First of all, I’d agree that the 2RS is an epic car, and ironically it’s best on the road. Dial the tyre pressures in correctly, and it’s an absolute weapon. Of course, like all of them, you risk your licence (or freedom!), but at the limits you can safely reach on the road, I don’t think I’ve been in a more exhilarating car in terms of back road pace. (others like the R are more “fun”,more of the time). On a circuit, then yes, it is much harder or drive and not as well balanced as a 3RS. There is a weight difference of c50kg, but that seems to be distributed about 80kg heavier at rear and 30kg lighter at the front . Combined with the power and torque going through the rear wheels, and also the soft damping, there is a lot of weight transfer, and then trying to corner and put 700bhp through rear wheels at same time. Makes it unstable under braking and you have to concentrate on the way out, not just mash throttle It take a while to work out, and you can drive round it - make use of the power on the way out, so make sure it’s settled on the way in, instead of being able to sort out mid-corner in a 3RS. The 3RS is a more resolved package, and better handling for sure, but not sure that makes it a better “driver’s car”, as it is relatively easy to make it go fast, the 2RS has hidden depths, and takes more working out, I think it’s a more rewarding car to own and exploit over time, though can’t deny that the risk of binning it on a track day is much higher and maybe not needed! I’ve done 3500 miles in mine, and taking it to Spa on Tuesday for 3rd track day. Pretty dialled into it now, so going to really push hard (and get some video...) Back on values - I’ve done loads of miles in all of them; have done 9000 miles and on 3rd set of tyres on my R. The R is the best all-round experience that anyone who drives one can feel, and will hold value the most. I think there are too many of the others, including the 2RS and there is really very little difference between all of the 3s to make one a star investment. The 2RS is not what a lot of buyers were expecting, and It does take a lot to uncover its talents, which is why I think values are softening as more bail out (as well as the market). It might come back strong, but depends on numbers. The ‘value’ car for me right now would be a LHD .1 GT3RS with a Manthey set up on it. Might not be a good investment, but will be the most fun for your fast depreciating £. Edited by footsoldier on Sunday 16th September 19:57

footsoldier said: The ‘value’ car for me right now would be a LHD .1 GT3RS with a Manthey set up on it. Might not be a good investment, but will be the most fun for your fast depreciating £. I still think the Manual 991.2 is king, if you are after the most fun for your fast depreciating £ :-) then do a Manthey set up on that. 1st GT3 since the 997.2 RS to have a manual Box and as not many people ordered manual also the rarest.

Porsche911R said: I still think the Manual 991.2 is king, if you are after the most fun for your fast depreciating £ :-) then do a Manthey set up on that. 1st GT3 since the 997.2 RS to have a manual Box and as not many people ordered manual also the rarest. When you sell yours let me know as a fellow driver I'm sure you will being selling at a fair price for the right reasons and not for profit

Porsche911R said: The issue with a lot of these cars is a lot of people paid backward overs, so list for most was not list as it cost me £20k overs in real money. Add to which my car is VERY highly speced it owes me £155k ! I doubt I will make on it at that, so if things stay how they are I will be selling at a loss. Do you not feel you will get a new GT4 slot ? Very hopeful but fancied a manual GT3 as I thought it would be as close to the RS as I can get.

Geoff39GL said: When you sell yours let me know as a fellow driver I'm sure you will being selling at a fair price for the right reasons and not for profit The issue with a lot of these cars is a lot of people paid backward overs, so list for most was not list as it cost me £20k overs in real money. Add to which my car is VERY highly speced it owes me £155k ! I doubt I will make on it at that, so if things stay how they are I will be selling at a loss. Luckily I do feel the latest GT3 is worth that over say a Lambo or Ferrari still, but it was a hard battle this time round, and I won't be playing the games again as many won't next time. Too many unhappy Porsche customers about who have already switched brands. I am hopeful it will hold it's value though as imo it's a very special car with no other brands making anything like it now. Do you not feel you will get a new GT4 slot ? Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 09:48

Geoff39GL said: Very hopeful but fancied a manual GT3 as I thought it would be as close to the RS as I can get. Hard to compare, some say the new cars better, some don't, My 1st idea was flip for the 997.2 RS but after owning it, I could not swap to the old car even if it may be safer money and the 997.2 RS looks the dogs b ks :-) . I do think the new 991.2 is a big jump over the 991.1 cars for interaction and feel etc I still cannot really fault it. Yes it has 3 minor issues but these are nothing like the GT4 issues I lived with and very fixable. But it's this new 4.0 engine, it is mind blowing, one would have to have a screw loose to swap that for a Megzer ! Timing a Flat shift at 8.5k in a manual GT3 is something any PDK RS owner will never get to do, and it's magic. (I have not done this in mine yet, but got the hang of it with PEC's manual car on their private track ) I might have to fit some race LED gear change lights if I do track mine. I am blown away by it, as are a few past 997 RS owners I see on here. But to point out the 3 tiny issues I have with the car as no car is perfect and I try to be as honest as possible here goes. 1: Exhaust noise, funny as it sounds as it does get on song >7k the PSE switch does s t all really, below 7k my GT4 sounded better ! (I have ordered a Ti bypass pipe to get round that) but oem at lower revs the GT3 is not a great sounding car imo. No wonder sharkwerks sell a lot of kit. 2: ****** geo's it needs a good geo I guess it has to be set up for ave Joe road only use, A bit like my GT4 when you go slower you think WOW the car grips and grips and has no signs of under steer, then when you really push the geo is lacking big time. Just frustration I need to find time and spend £300, but it's more the day out my life than the money. Yes you can easy drive round understeer and the GT3 is so throttle responsive it's scary with lift off how the car tucks in, but I want MORE from it ,I need more constant max G's, so it needs more front camber for me and to be better balanced out, as I say slower speeds ,I don't mean slow, I just mean slower than mental speeds :-) the GT3 as is, will be ok for 80% people stock geo. 3: loudness inside the car (not exhaust, but road noise), OK so it adds to the drama but my ears ring after long trips, I might have to wear ear plugs if I do a euro hoon ;-) this is not like a 991.1 GT3, again every thing just seems more hardcore in the 991.2 GT3. So while all 3 are easy to fix, I cannot now wait to get the top 2 items done ASAP. I'll post some vids of the Ti by pass unit once done vs oem. Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 10:20

I think my 981 Spyder sound better than my GT3 at sane speeds as long as you don't press the Sports exhaust button. In terms of geo i've yet to find conclusive settings i can just dial in straight off as i don't have the time or inclination to play with the settings.I'd also love to fit a Ti exhaust to improve the sound. However i'm pretty confident on getting a new gen 2 RS next Spring, which is what i've always wanted in the first place..My PDK GT3 is an amazing machine but i bought it as a stepping stone to a WP RS. If i intended to keep it long term i'd have gone for a manual and erased the RS from my brain. ETA The Dunlops on mine produce much less road roar compared to the Michelins..A lot of US owners have said that the N1 Dunlops are much better in the wet and cold although they don't last as long on the track . Edited by Taffy66 on Monday 17th September 10:46

The last 2krpm leading up to 9krpm was more epic on the gen1. But you wouldn’t choose it over the extra pull the gen2 has. Also, you may as well change up at 8500rpm in the gen2.

throt said: The last 2krpm leading up to 9krpm was more epic on the gen1. But you wouldn’t choose it over the extra pull the gen2 has. Also, you may as well change up at 8500rpm in the gen2. even more so in the Gen 1 as it drops power, the gen 2 keeps power to 9k but max at 8250 very handy on track if you cannot get a change in you can to goto 9k, it's not just for giggles.

Porsche911R said: I am blown away by it, as are a few past 997 RS owners I see on here. But to point out the 3 tiny issues I have with the car as no car is perfect and I try to be as honest as possible here goes. 1: Exhaust noise, funny as it sounds as it does get on song >7k the PSE switch does s t all really, below 7k my GT4 sounded better ! (I have ordered a Ti bypass pipe to get round that) but oem at lower revs the GT3 is not a great sounding car imo. No wonder sharkwerks sell a lot of kit. 2: ****** geo's it needs a good geo I guess it has to be set up for ave Joe road only use, A bit like my GT4 when you go slower you think WOW the car grips and grips and has no signs of under steer, then when you really push the geo is lacking big time. Just frustration I need to find time and spend £300, but it's more the day out my life than the money. Yes you can easy drive round understeer and the GT3 is so throttle responsive it's scary with lift off how the car tucks in, but I want MORE from it ,I need more constant max G's, so it needs more front camber for me and to be better balanced out, as I say slower speeds ,I don't mean slow, I just mean slower than mental speeds :-) the GT3 as is, will be ok for 80% people stock geo. 3: loudness inside the car (not exhaust, but road noise), OK so it adds to the drama but my ears ring after long trips, I might have to wear ear plugs if I do a euro hoon ;-) this is not like a 991.1 GT3, again every thing just seems more hardcore in the 991.2 GT3. Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 10:20 While I think the GT4 is a great car and am hopeful of a new car when released (having just bought a 718 Boxster S to help the process) but having missed out every time so far and having moved from Nottingham to Devon we will have to wait and see. The GT4 I have always felt is strangled, held back which I guess is to keep the car below the 911's and it seems from all the hype the same will apply to a 4 litre GT4 which will be a shame but understandable. The manual GT3 offers that performance and from what you have said has that linear acceleration throughout the rev range similar to the RS which with proper use of the left hand and foot gives that total involvement. I fear the new GT4 will have that held back feel. Exhaust noise in the GT4 is so nice as it sounds real and not synthetic, I am not sure what the emissions regs will do to that but I guess it can only be worse. Geo - As you know I enjoy track days, but for the fun of driving the car and using its performance and not for getting the best lap time possible, the standard GT4's ability exceeds my skill so I'm sure a standard GT3 out of the box would be fine. I think I remember you saying when out with me at Donnington that I was only faster than you on 1 corner so slower than mental is fine for me being one of the 80%. Noise - I found the road noise in the RS and GT4 similar but my 991.1GT3 was much more civilised I quite like the noise as it is part of the emotion even though its only down to the size of the tyres and lack of sound deadening. I think overall I would be happy with a new GT4 if offered but would like to try a manual GT3 do Silverstone still do sessions where you get a bit of track time and a lot of road time ? As we are doing a road trip to Switzerland next week to do some of the passes with 3 other couples (all GT3's) I may well come back and wonder why I am still looking for the next best thing as the GT4 is a great road car that you have to drive to get the most out of it and I'm hoping I will find my motoring nirvana . That will be another 2000 miles (lets not talk about what that does to the value) making 12500 miles in 18months. Edited by Geoff39GL on Monday 17th September 11:21

First time I have bought a Porsche without a manual box , and I much prefer the PDK .

Porsche911R said: Timing a Flat shift at 8.5k in a manual GT3 is something any PDK RS owner will never get to do, and it's magic. (I have not done this in mine yet, but got the hang of it with PEC's manual car on their private track ) I might have to fit some race LED gear change lights if I do track mine. Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 10:20 Flat up shifts in a manual GT3??? How does this work??

hunter 66 said: First time I have bought a Porsche without a manual box , and I much prefer the PDK . I guess when I get a little older I might be tempted with automatics. :-)

xbowdan said: Flat up shifts in a manual GT3??? How does this work?? You can flat shift any car, but the ECU in sports mode rev match’s for you on a flat shift so much kinder to your clutch. You gain about. 1/10th over a throttle lift shift on the vbox data, you still have to be very quick on the controls, but it feels great. Flat shifting a manual as close to 9 k as you dare :-) as I said PDK sucks the life and fun from these cars, I still don’t get why 80% orders were automatics it’s just not driving :-(

Porsche911R said: xbowdan said: Flat up shifts in a manual GT3??? How does this work?? You can flat shift any car, but the ECU in sports mode rev match’s for you on a flat shift so much kinder to your clutch. You gain about. 1/10th over a throttle lift shift on the vbox data, you still have to be very quick on the controls, but it feels great. Flat shifting a manual as close to 9 k as you dare :-) as I said PDK sucks the life and fun from these cars, I still don’t get why 80% orders were automatics it’s just not driving :-( Feel free to do a vid of your first flat shift! I've not tried it yet myself. Be interested to see what your new exhaust is like!

Phooey said: I agree re the 991R - it's a genuine limited edition small production car that really is something special - not just a parts bin 'special' like a Sport Classic for example. Only thing is (IMO) for the short-medium term it has peaked, but will come back and I think it will be a wise investment for those that hold onto them. Have to say though, at today's prices (£300k) I'd probably opt for a LHD 997 GT3 4.0 RS - has to become the most sought-after water-cooled 911 of all time? When you think that the Sport Classic and 911 R are within say £50k/20% of each other I know which one I'd own. Nobody buys the SC to drive it ....it really is purely a collectors car in my book.

Porsche911R said: You can flat shift any car, but the ECU in sports mode rev match’s for you on a flat shift so much kinder to your clutch. You gain about. 1/10th over a throttle lift shift on the vbox data, you still have to be very quick on the controls, but it feels great. Flat shifting a manual as close to 9 k as you dare :-) as I said PDK sucks the life and fun from these cars, I still don’t get why 80% orders were automatics it’s just not driving :-( Because you still don't understand the difference between subjective and objective ?

hunter 66 said: First time I have bought a Porsche without a manual box , and I much prefer the PDK . WOW,,!!!! Breaking news..Read all about it.. What a massive boost for PDK coming from one of the few on here who can genuinely drive fast..

Manuals now have so much electronic wizardry that no fun anymore ..... flat shifting a manual , no need for heel and toe etc etc ........ may be older ( so Agree ) but remember the real way still .. Tried flat shifting the 993 GT2R once and just destroyed the clutch .. Edited by hunter 66 on Monday 17th September 14:17

Porsche911R said: I still don’t get why 80% orders were automatics it’s just not driving :-( Lol, how can you say the above having been in my PDK GT3.2, round the corners like we did?

Taffy66 said: WOW,,!!!! Breaking news..Read all about it.. What a massive boost for PDK coming from one of the few on here who can genuinely drive fast.. Haha no not , just an old man's thoughts .......and after my mis-shift last year ..... which destroyed another Mezger , maybe it is less costly as well Edited by hunter 66 on Monday 17th September 14:53

APOLO1 said: Porsche911R said: I still don’t get why 80% orders were automatics it’s just not driving :-( Lol, how can you say the above having been in my PDK GT3.2, round the corners like we did? Please call it a PDK, bud...

throt said: Please call it a PDK, bud... Correct.A PDK is a computer operated manual transmission with twin clutches(one for even gears and one for odd gears...An Automatic box is totally different which does not have a clutch of any description, just a Torque converter which has no direct connection between engine and gearbox. In fact a PDK has absolutely nothing in common with a TQ Auto transmission.

Taffy66 said: throt said: Please call it a PDK, bud... Correct.A PDK is a computer operated manual transmission with twin clutches(one for even gears and one for odd gears...An Automatic box is totally different which does not have a clutch of any description, just a Torque converter which has no direct connection between engine and gearbox. In fact a PDK has absolutely nothing in common with a TQ Auto transmission. I thought I would let you tell 911R more in depth. Cheers, Taff

Cheib said: Feel free to do a vid of your first flat shift! I've not tried it yet myself. Be interested to see what your new exhaust is like! even in some one else car, you lift, it's not easy to get your head round after 33 years of driving.

throt said: I thought I would let you tell 911R more in depth. Cheers, Taff you pretenders can all it what you like, but at the end of the day they are all a type of automatic twin clutch transmission which use computers to control the process be it PDK, DCT or DSG, it's just their way of calling it an Automatic with two clutch's. Mainly operated in the fully automatic mode by most. Just like the 1st gen were called Tiptronic, SMG, R-Tronic etc It is what it is, makes no odds what 3 letter acronym you want to give it. Now if I called a PDK a "slushbox" then one might want to argue the point as inaccurate :-) 992 won't even have a gear lever ! so no Sequential pretending then :-p

xbowdan said: Flat up shifts in a manual GT3??? How does this work?? By relying on the electronics. Exactly like a dual clutch gearbox......

Porsche911R said: The issue with a lot of these cars is a lot of people paid backward overs, so list for most was not list as it cost me £20k overs in real money. Add to which my car is VERY highly speced it owes me £155k ! I doubt I will make on it at that, so if things stay how they are I will be selling at a loss. Luckily I do feel the latest GT3 is worth that over say a Lambo or Ferrari still, but it was a hard battle this time round, and I won't be playing the games again as many won't next time. Too many unhappy Porsche customers about who have already switched brands. I am hopeful it will hold it's value though as imo it's a very special car with no other brands making anything like it now. Do you not feel you will get a new GT4 slot ? Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 09:48 Backwards list? I don’t get it? Opportunity cost of capital?

2010spy said: Porsche911R said: The issue with a lot of these cars is a lot of people paid backward overs, so list for most was not list as it cost me £20k overs in real money. Add to which my car is VERY highly speced it owes me £155k ! I doubt I will make on it at that, so if things stay how they are I will be selling at a loss. Luckily I do feel the latest GT3 is worth that over say a Lambo or Ferrari still, but it was a hard battle this time round, and I won't be playing the games again as many won't next time. Too many unhappy Porsche customers about who have already switched brands. I am hopeful it will hold it's value though as imo it's a very special car with no other brands making anything like it now. Do you not feel you will get a new GT4 slot ? Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 09:48 Backwards list? I don’t get it? Opportunity cost of capital? I think he means he traded in a car below true market value to get on the list

MDL111 said: I think he means he traded in a car below true market value to get on the list It's an interesting one isn't it....lots of people did the same. I think if you're like 911 R though and love the car it would have been worth doing 100% to get your car to your spec. I notice a v.low mileage 991.2 GT3 RS is now £240k from an OPC. Coming down pretty quickly. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

Cheib said: It's an interesting one isn't it....lots of people did the same. I think if you're like 911 R though and love the car it would have been worth doing 100% to get your car to your spec. I notice a v.low mileage 991.2 GT3 RS is now £240k from an OPC. Coming down pretty quickly. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... they're really not attracting the same premiums the last RS did are they!

Cheib said: It's an interesting one isn't it....lots of people did the same. I think if you're like 911 R though and love the car it would have been worth doing 100% to get your car to your spec. I notice a v.low mileage 991.2 GT3 RS is now £240k from an OPC. Coming down pretty quickly. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... But Spec is a bit Mehhh.. For me LWB is a must, plus Lizard is a throw away colour having seen a few at meets now, Wait until theres NO more .2 for Uk, then see the prices rise up!

MDL111 said: I think he means he traded in a car below true market value to get on the list I did this too, but I still got what I had paid for the car originally so I didn't equate it as a loss. Man maths.

I believe his deal also involved the 981 Spyder he had which came from his OPC and was subsequently sold. I suspect the losses of owning that car are also a factor in the £20k overs calculation.

2010spy said: MDL111 said: I think he means he traded in a car below true market value to get on the list I did this too, but I still got what I had paid for the car originally so I didn't equate it as a loss. Man maths. generally agree, but if you are talking values then you should probably look at giving up profit to get another car, so it makes sense imo having said that, driving a car effectively for free and then getting another one at list that will immediately trade above list is a nice situation to be in.

WCZ said: they're really not attracting the same premiums the last RS did are they! Nope. And yet they are a better car. Says more about the current state of confidence in the market. There isn’t any!

Cheib said: I notice a v.low mileage 991.2 GT3 RS is now £240k from an OPC. Coming down pretty quickly. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... That car was up for about £20K more a week or so go..They'll be down to £200K in the not too distant future, and even further if they bring out a fair number of WP RSs in the second batch.. I had a good look at two for sale at my OPC today, a MB one and a LG one. I must say both looked awesome in the metal but at my age it'll have to be a Black WP RS with Aurum wheels..

Taffy66 said: That car was up for about £20K more a week or so go..They'll be down to £200K in the not too distant future, and even further if they bring out a fair number of WP RSs in the second batch.. I had a good look at two for sale at my OPC today, a MB one and a LG one. I must say both looked awesome in the metal but at my age it'll have to be a Black WP RS with Aurum wheels.. Nice style ......

hunter 66 said: Nice style ...... I think that combo should be called the Bad Neuenahr spec;-)

Yes REVO man style ...... silver haired ladies Beware

hunter 66 said: Yes REVO man style ...... silver haired ladies Beware Your silver hair on the weekend mate,need a zimmer with a spoiler next

Yes big day tomorrow ..... just talking about Mark no mates the other day

hunter 66 said: Yes big day tomorrow ..... just talking about Mark no mates the other day Have a good one,is marky invited to your party then! Will he be sat next to JC Shame i cant make it,as its the last round of the hillclimb champs. Off to laguna next week for some real steaks;)

hunter 66 said: Taffy66 said: That car was up for about £20K more a week or so go..They'll be down to £200K in the not too distant future, and even further if they bring out a fair number of WP RSs in the second batch.. I had a good look at two for sale at my OPC today, a MB one and a LG one. I must say both looked awesome in the metal but at my age it'll have to be a Black WP RS with Aurum wheels.. Nice style ...... Black RS with Arium wheels would be the dogs danglies. Also like GT Silver with Arium.

Looks like jzm sold their GT2 RS in Red/Black. Hard to know transaction price but the asking was £375k?

Cheib said: It's an interesting one isn't it....lots of people did the same. I think if you're like 911 R though and love the car it would have been worth doing 100% to get your car to your spec. I notice a v.low mileage 991.2 GT3 RS is now £240k from an OPC. Coming down pretty quickly. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... The mileage on that car is quoted incorrectly. It's been amended to 1237 miles on the Porsche site. Still nothing but people seem to want delivery mile cars and LWBs rather than folding.

xbowdan said: Porsche911R said: Timing a Flat shift at 8.5k in a manual GT3 is something any PDK RS owner will never get to do, and it's magic. (I have not done this in mine yet, but got the hang of it with PEC's manual car on their private track ) I might have to fit some race LED gear change lights if I do track mine. Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 17th September 10:20 Flat up shifts in a manual GT3??? How does this work?? You pull the gear lever and the (HIDDEN PDK) system does the rest Lol,well not really PDK but the ignition cut that times the change! So without using a clutch and by moving a lever on the center consul instead of a lever on the steering wheel its not really that manual is it?

PS2018 said: Looks like jzm sold their GT2 RS in Red/Black. Hard to know transaction price but the asking was £375k? Yep, it sold on Wednesday when i was there. It went for just short of that asking price. Monster car.

Juno said: You pull the gear lever and the (HIDDEN PDK) system does the rest Lol,well not really PDK but the ignition cut that times the change! So without using a clutch and by moving a lever on the center consul instead of a lever on the steering wheel its not really that manual is it? I guess you don't know how it works or what a flat shift is, as there is no auto clutch magic going on lol !!! It's not that easy to do (as your brain wants to do a throttle lift), you have to PRESS the clutch and change the gear and be very fast while on WOT. The sports mode option prevents the engine from over-reving when the load from the transmission is removed. As I stated you can flat shift any car and if you can do that well you will not notice the sports mode option anyway., what the sports mode does is stop you hitting the limiter and matches the revs to stop over wearing of the clutch if you are a tiny bit slow !. Takes about 2/10th but a good change is 3/10th any way. just a bit of fun which you cannot do in a PDK as you just click a microswitch ! And it's fully switchable to off if you wish. Also choosing the manual means you get a real diff and more power to the wheels, the PDK has more losses and the E-diff , the 2 cars are not the same to drive at all ie. the manual is the fun car the PDK the car for gaining those extra 10ths on a lap with less interaction and more electrics. Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 21st September 19:01

Quite something this one - full bespoke Porsche CXX interior. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405179...

KittyLitter said: Quite something this one - full bespoke Porsche CXX interior. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405179... What happened to you're old account Julian?