1989 Carrera 3.2 to 718 Cayman GTS 4.0? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I've come here in the hope that someone will talk some objective sense into me... For the last couple of months I've been having sinful thoughts about trading in my '89 Carrera Sport 3.2 for a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0... would this be a terrible move? It's been in the family since around 2001 and has a lot of sentimental value and memories being my late father's. I love it just as much as he did, but sometimes I feel like I can't just drive it as much as I'd like because of the age and potential fragility of something going wrong with it one day. It's still in great condition, only has 91k miles and no leaks. I've spent about 7k on it the last 18 months including 3.5k on a new full exhaust system and the rest on servicing every six months and new tyres. Whatever it's needed it's got. Before my father passed, he was thinking about selling it for an F-type R or 993 Carrera, so it wasn't an absolute keeper. I love the rawness of it (no power steering, no ABS, no traction control etc obvs, G50 manual 'box), and the fact you really have to work hard to drive it well. I'm a member of an enthusiast car club here and every time we go out for 'very' spirited group drives I'm always a sweaty mess trying to keep up with the modern stuff, which is part of the fun, and I always get comments every time that the car punches well above its weight, but i do feel a bit guilty when I get back home afterwards. Which sounds silly. It is so much fun at normal speeds just pootling along though! Every drive is an event. How often can we say that about modern performance cars. I love everything about the Cayman GTS 4.0 has to offer and feel if I'm going to do it I should strike soon while values between the two cars are almost identical; who knows how long the G-series Carrera values will remain this high and I can't see GTS 4.0 values plummeting over the long-term. It's my dream attainable modern Porsche and I don't want to come across as ungrateful. I've even thought about walking into my local OPC and going through the process of "can I please order a new one", chuck the 5% deposit down to place the order and top up to 10% on the confirmation of build slot; it's got that bad! But given the sentimental value, i might regret it... I just feel like I can't enjoy the car as much as I'd like given the 1980s tech (fragility), age, classic status/value etc. and going forwards I will be constantly throwing money at it to keep it in tip-top condition. I think my Dad would be proud of me though given how I've kept it uptogether the last 18 months and enjoyed it. With a new or nearly-new GTS 4.0 I wouldn't have to worry about any of that and could even take it on the odd trackday - something I've never wanted to do with the G-series 911 for fear of something going wrong and the standard brakes not being up to the job Spec-wise I don't even want much, just Carmine Red, silver wheels and leather (not alcantara). I'm easily pleased

Even minus the sentimentality, I wouldn’t. I think you’re just suffering the itch, I expect it’ll pass and you’ll be glad you didn’t.

Keep it and get a cheap 981 or 987 to blat around in

It's a nice decision to have to make. I've got a CGTS 4.0 and absolutely love it. The chassis, engine, gearbox, interior are perfect for me, engaging and a bit old skool. However, I do still long for an air cooled classic, they are just so appealing. In the end a classic just wouldn't suit my use-case, I like to do a few euro tours per year and whilst it could be done in a classic it would be a lot harder. It's really down to how you'll use it, if you're going to use it for road trips and put some miles on it then make the switch, you will love the 4.0. If it's for weekend blasts in the UK and occasional track day, then keep the 3.2. If you have the money and space get both! (btw: it's £3k deposit until it arrives). Good luck!

A44RON said: But given the sentimental value, i might regret it... I just feel like I can't enjoy the car as much as I'd like given the 1980s tech (fragility), age, classic status/value etc. and going forwards I will be constantly throwing money at it to keep it in tip-top condition. I think my Dad would be proud of me though given how I've kept it uptogether the last 18 months and enjoyed it. Easy for me to say but given the history there is no way I would sell it. Current 4.0s are and always will be two a penny, that car is unique. The money you spend on it isn’t thrown away, it will always be worth good money, I doubt current models will be able to make that claim soon. I would buy a second car (cheaper if need be) to scratch your itch and keep it.

Billy_Whizzzz said: Keep it and get a cheap 981 or 987 to blat around in I agree ... a 987 Gen2 something of your choice. It will do most of what a 781 GTS will do at legal speeds and it will cost you less to buy than the first years depreciation on a new 781 GTS ... unless that is what you really want, which we could all understand ...

I think that in your position I'd probably make the move to the Cayman. You will have loads of happy memories with the Carrera that you will cherish forever. It sounds like the Cayman is exactly the sort of car that you will look forward to making new memories with. The GTS 4.0 is indeed a fantastic car, pretty easy to live with in all situations and yet properly thrilling on a good road. In my opinion it will be spot-on for the type of driving you want to do. Remember the Carrera fondly, and begin a new chapter. EDIT: the idea of keeping the Carrera and adding a manual 987.2 Cayman S holds a lot of appeal if you have the space and the budget! Edited by Stunters on Saturday 18th November 09:55

Before reading the comments I was thinking that you should keep it and get a "cheap" 987 etc...and the comments seem to agree too. I go to quite a few Porsche meets and it's always the older atuff that gets a lot more attention but it's you that's got to drive it and live with it.

My first Porsche back in 2008 was a 3 yr old 987 2.7 which was a great car but drove like a golf. In 2013 I bought a 993 C2 which I would have kept forever until I was hit head on and that was the end of it. I now have a 964 C2 and I love it more than the others! Please please please do not sell the carrera as You will regret it especially with the family history. Look for a boxster 2.9 and see how you get on but please keep a hold of that carrera!

I’ve sort of gone the other way, had a 981 Spyder which has been replaced by a C2 993, if it was my daily id go for the Cayman, but as a weekend toy I found the Spyder a bit too polished, it was very easy to drive very quickly, and with the long gearing strangely uninvolving. Where as the 993 can be huge fun at much lower speeds and the short gearing means you are always involved. Horses for courses, I considered a 4.0 Cayman as a daily which I’m sure it would do brilliantly, but ended up with a Cayenne as I’ve got a Moroccan desert road trip itch to scratch.

Crikey In exactly the same boat. I have an 89 Carrera that I have had since 2007 and it was my Dads (he owned it from 1992). Its only done 30k (was on 15k when I bought it) but it does play on your mind in a way no other car ever has. I feel I need to keep it as it is and it would be hard to part with, but its meant I have been bumbling around in a polo since the Impreza STi was stolen (and the 1/2 of the insurance money used to buy the 911). I know that if I sold it I would always regret it, and really it is quite fantastic to drive. I almost swapped it for a 997 GT3 (plus a bit of cash) but that gap has opened so much that's out of reach, but glad I didn't in the end. so for me its a keeper.

gareth h said: I’ve sort of gone the other way, had a 981 Spyder which has been replaced by a C2 993, if it was my daily id go for the Cayman, but as a weekend toy I found the Spyder a bit too polished, it was very easy to drive very quickly, and with the long gearing strangely uninvolving. Where as the 993 can be huge fun at much lower speeds and the short gearing means you are always involved. Horses for courses, I considered a 4.0 Cayman as a daily which I’m sure it would do brilliantly, but ended up with a Cayenne as I’ve got a Moroccan desert road trip itch to scratch. Did you read the OP’s post?

Tricky dilemma. Whilst they may share some Porsche DNA, they are very different cars, from different eras. A good unmolested ‘89 G50 3.2 Carrera is very desirable - a real ‘911’ from the classic aircooled era, when these cars were largely hand-built in relatively smaller numbers. And, probably delivering a much more engaging driving experience, although perhaps better suited to more occasional use. The 718 GTS is more of a mainstream production model. Developed and evolved under Porsche’s VAG parentage, and an easier ‘everyday’ useable proposition. The 911 would also probably turn more heads and, despite being slower, may even be the more enjoyable to extend on the UK’s restricted roads. But, for track and euro trips, the 718 would have the advantage. Think my head would be tempted to go for a new 718 (but my heart would regret it every time I saw a nice aircooled 911 )

Keep the ‘89 3.2 Carrera. They are special cars. The 718 GTS are very good cars, but just that.

its just a car and your dad at the time thought of changing it for another. what do you think your dad wanted you to do if he still was around? he wanted the best for you to have fun or try something else. so if you can't keep it, say only 1 inside space for a good car, then sell it and by the GTS 4.0 have fun, its your life now.

keep it and enjoy. They are nowhere near as fragile as you might think. Back in the day we used to drive my 3.2 to the race track. Race it and drive it back home and that includes a race at Zandvoort. If maintained well they are bullet proof. For me I would avoid using it when the roads have been salted. Rot is your only enemy and keep a spare dme relay in the glove box just in case yours fails.

FWIW and this is personal experience, I've been lucky enough to own several modern 911's. While great I no longer own them, the one constant is my 1988 Carrera 3.2 which I will never sell. It's been all over Europe and never missed a beat...

Which will be worth the most in five or ten years?

What's the spec of your 3.2 Carrera?

I've had my 3.2 for 19 years. It went through 200,000 km 2 years back thrashing around Scotland, I've had since 80,000. My advice is stop worrying and get out there and drive the thing and drive it properly. It won't fall apart and you will love it. A well used car should just need you and petrol in it to have a great time. (Maybe get a GTS 4.0 too)

As much as you would like the Cayman GTS, you cant part with a 89 3.2 Carrera for it. a true classic that I think in time you would regret selling. But as with a lot of comments on PH, its your money and your personal decision.

I've had my 3.2 for 17 years and its not going anywhere - I've had modern Porsches along the way amongst other quick stuff and there remains something unique and wonderful about it. ..part of that wonder is also how bulletproof it is - as long as you keep the rot away and keep up with maintaining it you can drive it anywhere with complete confidence. The Cayman is an excellent car but it has an impermanence about it that contrasts starkly with the anvil like build quality on the 3.2.

ettore said: I've had my 3.2 for 17 years and its not going anywhere - I've had modern Porsches along the way amongst other quick stuff and there remains something unique and wonderful about it. ..part of that wonder is also how bulletproof it is - as long as you keep the rot away and keep up with maintaining it you can drive it anywhere with complete confidence. The Cayman is an excellent car but it has an impermanence about it that contrasts starkly with the anvil like build quality on the 3.2. Its interesting but when I drove a 997 GT3, it felt just like driving my 3.2 It needed the same delicacy in transferring the weight to kill understeer and bringing it backwards to make the most of the traction out of a corner Just faster.

Gary C said: Its interesting but when I drove a 997 GT3, it felt just like driving my 3.2 It needed the same delicacy in transferring the weight to kill understeer and bringing it backwards to make the most of the traction out of a corner Just faster. I’d agree with that, I had a 997 GT3 and loved it - the benefit of the 3.2 is that you can do it at speeds that would merely maim rather than kill ! Oh, and the ride is much better.

Do. Not. Sell. It.

ettore said: Gary C said: Its interesting but when I drove a 997 GT3, it felt just like driving my 3.2 It needed the same delicacy in transferring the weight to kill understeer and bringing it backwards to make the most of the traction out of a corner Just faster. I’d agree with that, I had a 997 GT3 and loved it - the benefit of the 3.2 is that you can do it at speeds that would merely maim rather than kill ! Oh, and the ride is much better. I did the opposite and sold a more modern Porsche to get a one owner 3.2 Carrera and don’t regret it one bit. It’s like I’ve become the new custodian rather than just the owner. The cars history really gets into your bones. I guarantee if you buy the newer car you will after a week or two feel like your driving just any other car albeit a very capable one. Modern Porsches just don’t have the character of the aircooled cars although I would consider a cheaper 987 boxster/Cayman to blatt about in as a very good compromise. A well sourced sorted one will give you 90% of the smiles of the GTS for very little money..probably 18 months worth of the depreciation on the GTS..

g7jhp said: What's the spec of your 3.2 Carrera? It's guards red with the black 16in Fuchs wheels, G50 manual, 91k miles, cream leather interior with red piping, elec sunroof, black interior roof lining, all original apart from a new cat-back exhaust system recently (the original exhaust failed the most recent MOT because of a hole the size of a golf ball in it; I suppose not bad for 34 years old), full service history which I've read a few times and is fascinating. My late father was the third owner

many thanks to all of you for your replies - it's definitely given me food for thought and has made me appreciate just how well-regarded these 3.2 Carreras are, so cheers I went to a local Porsche meet on the weekend and got chatting to one of the members who asked "has the top-end been rebuilt? Any 3.2 Carrera that's still on the original top-end the closer it gets to 120,000 miles has done well" - never heard of this before he came across as very knowledgeable but wasn't sure if he was chatting rubbish? I thought these engines were bullet-proof if maintained regularly

They are, although everything needs looking after eventually. If it’s not burning oil then it’s absolutely fine - the top end eventually needs doing but it’s not at some arbitrary limit - many go way beyond 150k. It’s also not a terminally expensive thing (a few months Cayman depreciation). I really wouldn’t worry about it.

ettore said: They are, although everything needs looking after eventually. If it’s not burning oil then it’s absolutely fine - the top end eventually needs doing but it’s not at some arbitrary limit - many go way beyond 150k. It’s also not a terminally expensive thing (a few months Cayman depreciation). I really wouldn’t worry about it. Very nicely put.

I’ve got a 3.2 Carrera which I’ve owned since 2010. Similar position in that I’ve thought about selling it, but it’s the one car I know once gone, I would be priced out the market to get another in the future.

Update: On the weekend I went to my local OPC and talked ‘sell on behalf’ and the process; much better than I thought – flat fee of NZ$10k (£5k) plus VAT all up and that’s it. (I’m in New Zealand). They also had a 993 Carrera 2S out back being prepared for SOR. It was all fairly positive. I said I would get the stone chips on the front bumper sorted, paint correction all over, fully detailed inside and out and will be in touch. I also went to another independent dealer down the road who only sells rare enthusiast cars over £50k and they said they would sell on behalf for the same rate of NZ$10k (£5k) plus VAT. They asked me how much I thought the car was worth, I told them “well it’s insured for NZ$xxxxxx but ultimately it’s what someone is willing to pay… how much do you think it’s worth? What would you advertise it for?” And they kind of ummed and ahhed and then low-balled me a bit by NZ$30k / £15k and said the air-cooled market has softened slightly recently(?) on pre-964 stuff. Fwiw, a Carrera 3.2 here recently sold for £5k less than my ballpark figure and it was two years older, black on black and had 30,000 miles more than mine… I told them that and they didn’t say anything. Maybe they weren’t so keen on it taking up showroom space for potentially a couple of months or longer… which is understandable if they can move their own stock on quicker, plus these uncertain economic times and the next few months are going to be VERY interesting to say the least. They did seem very honest in the sense that they advised me to hold fire for a few months and wait to see how the market goes then get in touch if I’m still keen, because i might not maximise the sale otherwise. Which is fair enough

A44RON said: Update: On the weekend I went to my local OPC and talked ‘sell on behalf’ and the process; much better than I thought – flat fee of NZ$10k (£5k) plus VAT all up and that’s it. (I’m in New Zealand). They also had a 993 Carrera 2S out back being prepared for SOR. It was all fairly positive. I said I would get the stone chips on the front bumper sorted, paint correction all over, fully detailed inside and out and will be in touch. I also went to another independent dealer down the road who only sells rare enthusiast cars over £50k and they said they would sell on behalf for the same rate of NZ$10k (£5k) plus VAT. They asked me how much I thought the car was worth, I told them “well it’s insured for NZ$xxxxxx but ultimately it’s what someone is willing to pay… how much do you think it’s worth? What would you advertise it for?” And they kind of ummed and ahhed and then low-balled me a bit by NZ$30k / £15k and said the air-cooled market has softened slightly recently(?) on pre-964 stuff. Fwiw, a Carrera 3.2 here recently sold for £5k less than my ballpark figure and it was two years older, black on black and had 30,000 miles more than mine… I told them that and they didn’t say anything. Maybe they weren’t so keen on it taking up showroom space for potentially a couple of months or longer… which is understandable if they can move their own stock on quicker, plus these uncertain economic times and the next few months are going to be VERY interesting to say the least. They did seem very honest in the sense that they advised me to hold fire for a few months and wait to see how the market goes then get in touch if I’m still keen, because i might not maximise the sale otherwise. Which is fair enough That feels very soft to me!

I have no idea what the market in NZ is like. But here that’s a 20 year old price.

supersport said: I have no idea what the market in NZ is like. But here that’s a 20 year old price. Oh, apologies for the confusion. The figure they said was £15k below my ballpark figure, not £15k asking price

Hard to say but if in A1 condition I'd put that car up for £65,000. Condition everything. https://911virgin.com/listings/911-3-2-carrera-cou...

Makes me wonder what mine is worth 1989 3.2 in red (carmine red, there is a book by Tony Corlett somewhere that states they didn't do the Carrera in guards red, but I don't know if that's true) 31K miles FPSH

Gary C said: Makes me wonder what mine is worth 1989 3.2 in red (carmine red, there is a book by Tony Corlett somewhere that states they didn't do the Carrera in guards red, but I don't know if that's true) 31K miles FPSH Officially it's India red but to me it looks identical to Guards so that's what I tell everyone it is. Guess yours is worth the same as mine, 1985, one previous owner, 27K miles and FPSH Not that it matters as I've had it since 2012 and not selling. Sounds to me like the OP should keep it and most agree

IMI A said: Hard to say but if in A1 condition I'd put that car up for £65,000. Condition everything. https://911virgin.com/listings/911-3-2-carrera-cou... £65k for that is strong money considering it's got over 30k miles more than mine and a less desirable colour combo...

A44RON said: IMI A said: Hard to say but if in A1 condition I'd put that car up for £65,000. Condition everything. https://911virgin.com/listings/911-3-2-carrera-cou... £65k for that is strong money considering it's got over 30k miles more than mine and a less desirable colour combo... and it was already sold before they took it into stock....

IMI A said: A44RON said: IMI A said: Hard to say but if in A1 condition I'd put that car up for £65,000. Condition everything. https://911virgin.com/listings/911-3-2-carrera-cou... £65k for that is strong money considering it's got over 30k miles more than mine and a less desirable colour combo... and it was already sold before they took it into stock.... on that basis i'd be advertising mine for more than £65k...

911 Virgins G50 has had a full engine rebuild and body resto a couple of years ago hence probably in very good condition. Lovely cars loved mine. GLWTS