Visited my local OPC today - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Whilst looking at 718 Spyder entered into conversation with salesman about reliability of pdk gearboxes and he was suggesting that if out of OPC warranty it would cost £35k to fix...............surely this can't be true ......

anonymous said: [redacted] Exactly, pdk can be expensive out of warranty......" As say the Porsche People ".....nice to hear from you Cossers.....👍

ATM on here had his fixed. So it is possible.

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supersport said: ATM on here had his fixed. So it is possible. Does any one know how much it costs and what work was done , from my experience today, the OPC doesn't want u to go outside the OPC shield and appear happy to exaggerate costs.....

Is the PDK box your only concern? There are several other big ticket items on a 718 GT4/Spyder that would want me to keep it in warranty. The fragility of the PADM being the main one.

PDK gearbox is ~£10k-12k. The engine on the 4.0 is ~£35k

A friend experienced a pdk failure on his new 'super low mileage' GT4. It stopped using 1st and 3rd IIRC. Replaced under warranty by the supplying OPC, took a couple of weeks to get a new one, he said he was told that the cost was c.£20k as they just bolt a new one in. BGB in the US has started to do pdk repairs. I can ask more detail if it helps.

Actual cost to Porsche will be 10-15% of what you pay at the parts counter..

anonymous said: [redacted] The main reason I have the OPC warranty and have OPC servicing is the PDK, not that they are unreliable, the opposite, but anything can go wrong and if it did it would be a nightmare. In the past if it were a manual box or a simple auto I would probably have fixed it myself but the PDK is on another level. A mate of mine who has done nothing but autos all his decades in the motor game won't touch them, you cannot get all the parts and the old core is too expensive to buy for spares. When you say can be fixed, true, you will always find someone to take your money on a (can't guarantee it) repair but correct me if I am wrong but isn't the same person who had his PDK fixed now having problems with it again? Forgetting the PDK for a second, there is nothing cheap to fix on a Porsche, OPC route or not they are not cheap cars to run, especially if you put miles on them.

s2000db said: Actual cost to Porsche will be 10-15% of what you pay at the parts counter.. Even if that were true (I doubt it) how much has it cost Porsche to get to the point to be able to make them for what it now costs them?

jackwood said: Is the PDK box your only concern? There are several other big ticket items on a 718 GT4/Spyder that would want me to keep it in warranty. The fragility of the PADM being the main one. Thanks everyone for your comments and the salesman did say the 718's were more prone to PADM failure than the 981's.

anonymous said: [redacted] Just going by what he has posted, but my point is IF it were to go wrong and you have one what options do you have?

981Boxess said: s2000db said: Actual cost to Porsche will be 10-15% of what you pay at the parts counter.. Even if that were true (I doubt it) how much has it cost Porsche to get to the point to be able to make them for what it now costs them? PDK is old technology now, so most of the development cost would be fully amortised by now, so they’re including group profits, overheads, and future development costs on there. They probably make a 15-20% profits on parts. By the time you add OPC markup (20-30%) plus VAT, you can easily see how the price to consumer is 8-10 times the original cost.

There is a thread regarding a PDK replacement on here it was around £12k and out of warranty Porsche gave 80% goodwill, quite why the salesperson decided that quoting a 35k figure was going to in anyway induce someone to buy a car is anyone's guess.

There’s a lot of risk adverse people on here. You must be shaking like a s tting dog every time the PDK changes gear. Most Independents I’ve spoken to do very little work on or have knowledge of PDK faults. Seals and solenoids can go on them but these can easily be replaced. IIRC ATM had a battery on its way out and the low voltage threw up PDK errors? It’s a pity the OPC salesman didn’t warn 996/997 customers of bore score if they want to upsell extended warranty openly criticising the quality of their own product I will say the price of extended warranty on Boxster/Cayman being near half the value of the 911 is good value. It’s just a pity you have to pay the high prices for the servicing.

Wills2 said: There is a thread regarding a PDK replacement on here it was around £12k and out of warranty Porsche gave 80% goodwill, quite why the salesperson decided that quoting a 35k figure was going to in anyway induce someone to buy a car is anyone's guess. I was very surprised when he said £35k, I was prepared for £20k , to which I responded by saying any pdk Porsche that's worth less £40k if it needs a replacement box it's probably a write off financially and he agreed..........madness imho

I had a similar discussion with the service manager. He said about £18k for a 981 S engine and £11k for a PDK box. Even if those figures are inflated, it's enough to scare me into always having a warranty (which to date has paid for itself).

Always lots of donor parts from crashed cars ......... 01 GT3RS , engine about £35k to rebuild and has a 20 hour life , before refresh again

I think this company in the North East can fix PDK boxes?? https://austrin-engineering.co.uk/

Imagine in 5/10 years time when Taycans are in need of a new battery, at £40K!

From what I've read the cost of a PDK box quoted is assuming you exchange your old box; cost presumably being higher if you don't?

Armitage.Shanks said: There’s a lot of risk adverse people on here. You must be shaking like a s tting dog every time the PDK changes gear. I certainly don’t, that is what the OPC warranty is there for, as well as untold other things that are covered. My warranty has certainly paid for itself, there is nothing cheap to fix on these cars, so a no brainer for what it costs IMO.

Going back a few years a Tiptronic box was £12k so all relative really.

anonymous said: [redacted] Post on this page of this thread from ATM here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Looks to have been the control cables rather than the PDK 'box itself as he says all seems good now, and no further issue reported since. To the OP, there's an incredibly simple way to establish if a car salesman is talking BS. If his lips move, it'll be BS he's talking. Guaranteed.

said: +1 - unfortunately

julian987R said: Imagine in 5/10 years time when Taycans are in need of a new battery, at £40K! Yes and after 7yrs the warranty won’t help you as the battery is excluded! But you can still pay to cover the other parts

Armitage.Shanks said: julian987R said: Imagine in 5/10 years time when Taycans are in need of a new battery, at £40K! Yes and after 7yrs the warranty won’t help you as the battery is excluded! But you can still pay to cover the other parts Or fit an ice motor taken out of an old 911 that was converted to a 70 mile range electric for 180k. Just an idea...

Armitage.Shanks said: Yes and after 7yrs the warranty won’t help you as the battery is excluded! But you can still pay to cover the other parts Wait The OPC warranty excludes the battery? If so these cars will be cheaper than old Bentleys quite quickly

Armitage.Shanks said: julian987R said: Imagine in 5/10 years time when Taycans are in need of a new battery, at £40K! Yes and after 7yrs the warranty won’t help you as the battery is excluded! But you can still pay to cover the other parts Hang on, so a Taycan after 7 years, regardless of 7 years of warranty, and for when a new battery is needed, isn't covered? Therefore in 7 years time, thereabouts, its a 40K bill looming over ones head. Surely the second hand market is going to catch on to that for that model?

julian987R said: Armitage.Shanks said: julian987R said: Imagine in 5/10 years time when Taycans are in need of a new battery, at £40K! Yes and after 7yrs the warranty won’t help you as the battery is excluded! But you can still pay to cover the other parts Hang on, so a Taycan after 7 years, regardless of 7 years of warranty, and for when a new battery is needed, isn't covered? Therefore in 7 years time, thereabouts, its a 40K bill looming over ones head. Surely the second hand market is going to catch on to that for that model? Battery costs will likely drop significantly and aftermarket options become much more prevalent over the next 7 years.

Had a Telsa x for 7 years now , less than 10% loss of battery .... so yes may be an issue after 20 years ....... Have a Porsche where the engine only lasts 20 hours between rebuilds ( at £ 30 K ) , so all relative

hunter 66 said: Had a Telsa x for 7 years now , less than 10% loss of battery .... so yes may be an issue after 20 years ....... Have a Porsche where the engine only lasts 20 hours between rebuilds ( at £ 30 K ) , so all relative Issue is, the battery could still fail tomorrow.

youngsyr said: Issue is, the battery could still fail tomorrow. So just like a petrol engine then......... (my GT2 destroyed both it's Mezger engine and separately a gearbox, both covered by warranty). Also the Taycan battery warranty is 8 years from new, even though the overall car is only 3 years. Since it will be possible to extend the full car warranty at that point, no-one know exactly what that extended warranty would cover in terms of the battery, since it's not even an issue for concern for many years. If you buy a used Taycan for £50k now and sell it in 3 years for say £25k, it still has several years of battery warranty, so why get so bothered right now?

Guyr said: youngsyr said: Issue is, the battery could still fail tomorrow. So just like a petrol engine then......... (my GT2 destroyed both it's Mezger engine and separately a gearbox, both covered by warranty). Also the Taycan battery warranty is 8 years from new, even though the overall car is only 3 years. Since it will be possible to extend the full car warranty at that point, no-one know exactly what that extended warranty would cover in terms of the battery, since it's not even an issue for concern for many years. If you buy a used Taycan for £50k now and sell it in 3 years for say £25k, it still has several years of battery warranty, so why get so bothered right now? Well, not really - very few premium cars drop you a bill for an engine rebuild costing £30k within the first 12 years. If they did, people would be giving them away at 10 years old, like they do now with old V10 audi/BMW models. E.g. this, which you'd struggle to spend £30k on even if it's borked. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310183... Edited by youngsyr on Tuesday 5th December 10:18

Had a new 981GTS many years ago, once the original warranty ran out I didn't bother extending, had the car for 6 years and 42K miles (PDK also) and never missed a beat.

The point is that not many secondhand buyers of cars 5+ years old are prepared to run a Porsche with, for example PDK, outside of warranty for fears of the gearbox replacement cost. Even a £1k dynamic engine mount failure risk has owners rushing to fill the warranty application form in. Thankfully for the risk averse then they can continue the warranty up to 15 years. Applying the same criteria how many are prepared to buy a Taycan with a battery warranty that cannot be extended beyond the 7 (or 8?) year point even though you can carry on and pay £1k to warranty every other part of it. What is needed are specialist companies that can work on EV batteries and swap out damaged cells rather than ( as Porsche do) and just replace the whole battery at significant cost without an exchange option etc.. These specialist companies exist but we are years away before they will be in every town and can diagnose and fix an EV in the same time as an ICE car. OPCs don’t ‘fix’ anything, they just replace a damaged part at either your expense or via the warranty claim. On balance we all know batteries can last for many years beyond the warranty period but if you don’t have an appetite for risk you’ll look elsewhere.

Armitage.Shanks said: Applying the same criteria how many are prepared to buy a Taycan with a battery warranty that cannot be extended beyond the 7 (or 8?) year point even though you can carry on and pay £1k to warranty every other part of it. How do you know the battery won't be covered by some sort of extended warranty on a Taycan? Right now no-one has actually had to even consider it, even Porsche, as no car is anywhere near the 7/8 year point. I do get that batteries have a more obvious obsolescence than an ICE engine, but to date it seems that the fears are well overdone. Most small batteries in phones/laptops last 1000 cycles, which is 250k miles in a Taycan and that's without taking into account the fact that EVs have far more sophisticated battery management. There was a 120,000 mile Taycan sold in the US that still had a 240mile range. The highest mileage Tesla is 1.2 million miles and has had 3 new batteries, so one every 400k miles on average. Battery costs will also keep coming down, unlike rebuild costs for ICE motors, which are not cheap (I've rebuilt/upgraded many engines over the years ranging from £15k-£50k each time). I'm not an EV fan or even want one, but the scare stories that get written are crazy. Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 5th December 13:09 Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 5th December 13:10

Guyr said: There was a 120,000 mile Taycan sold in the US that still had a 240mile range. The highest mileage Tesla is 1.2 million miles and has had 3 new batteries, so one every 400k miles on average. Don't charge over 85% unless you have a long enough journey to require it. Try not to drop below 30% charge too often. Don't 'top up' charge any more frequently than absolutely necessary. It's pretty easy to do the things that preserve the performance of the battery. IIRC, when EV's were about to become a thing, the cited stat of them using (IIRC) 30% fewer components than an ICE car is also key; less there, less to go wrong. No EGR, Catalytic converter, DPF, AD Blue, sopt-start etc. etc.

Not an ev fan but went for a spirited drive in my 4.0 gt3 following a taycan. Fast, easily as fast as mine. But it cornered well and slowed smoothly. Serious piece of kit. Is it as fun as a gt3, maybe not. But as fun as a turbo s....

Guyr said: Armitage.Shanks said: Applying the same criteria how many are prepared to buy a Taycan with a battery warranty that cannot be extended beyond the 7 (or 8?) year point even though you can carry on and pay £1k to warranty every other part of it. How do you know the battery won't be covered by some sort of extended warranty on a Taycan? Right now no-one has actually had to even consider it, even Porsche, as no car is anywhere near the 7/8 year point. My chum wants to buy one. He keeps his cars long term the main dealer explained the warranty (or lack of it) when the original battery warranty expires. He is risk averse/cautious (to the point he still runs a 2012 Panamera diesel with 100k on extended warranty) and the current position took the Taycan off the table. Not only that the depreciation if he came to sell it and trying to find a buyer that would take it on. Would you? No battery lasts forever, they are, in warranty terms, a consumable item and as yet no EV company I’m aware of offers a refurbishment or exchange solution. I know they will go on for many miles and years after the original warranty expires but someone will be unlucky. So, the question is “Do you feel lucky?” I’d buy one at the right price with the mindset I’ve written that money off. But my price would start with a 3

Guyr said: Armitage.Shanks said: Applying the same criteria how many are prepared to buy a Taycan with a battery warranty that cannot be extended beyond the 7 (or 8?) year point even though you can carry on and pay £1k to warranty every other part of it. How do you know the battery won't be covered by some sort of extended warranty on a Taycan? Right now no-one has actually had to even consider it, even Porsche, as no car is anywhere near the 7/8 year point. I do get that batteries have a more obvious obsolescence than an ICE engine, but to date it seems that the fears are well overdone. Most small batteries in phones/laptops last 1000 cycles, which is 250k miles in a Taycan and that's without taking into account the fact that EVs have far more sophisticated battery management. There was a 120,000 mile Taycan sold in the US that still had a 240mile range. The highest mileage Tesla is 1.2 million miles and has had 3 new batteries, so one every 400k miles on average. Battery costs will also keep coming down, unlike rebuild costs for ICE motors, which are not cheap (I've rebuilt/upgraded many engines over the years ranging from £15k-£50k each time). I'm not an EV fan or even want one, but the scare stories that get written are crazy. Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 5th December 13:09 Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 5th December 13:10 There are 9 year old hybrid Panameras, what are the hybrid battery warranty options on those?

youngsyr said: There are 9 year old hybrid Panameras, what are the hybrid battery warranty options on those? 7 years according to an owner on PCGB. There was a car on eBay a while back where the hybrid battery had gone and the replacement was £20k. My Indy said whatever you do, don’t buy one. That was good enough for me.

Armitage.Shanks said: What is needed are specialist companies that can work on EV batteries and swap out damaged cells rather than ( as Porsche do) and just replace the whole battery at significant cost without an exchange option etc. Like JLR already do, it works really well, my mates ipace has only been off the road 3 months so far with charging/battery issues. His loan car is a diesel Merc