Oil overfill issues

To preface I have a 2006 987 cayman s with a 2.5 quart oil pan/sump, and an upgraded 997s oil cooler. Besides that nothing different on the oil system. I just purchased this car a few weeks ago and I am getting around to my first oil change with it. I started by lifting the car up to Get under and drain the oil. I removed the drain plug , removed the filter, removed the full cap and let it drain for about 20-30 minutes.(oil was hot to the touch) I then replaced the filters screwed and torques the plug and then began filling the car. I put 9.5 quarts in to start per my modifications. I checked the oil level and it was above the full line so I figured it may need to work its way into the car and so I started it up to let it works it’s way into the engine. After about 8 seconds of purring and perfect running it began to bog so I shut the car off. Did this one more time and then decided something was wrong it may be over filled. I then slid the pan out from under the car to measure how much we had gotten out. To my surprise it was about 3.5 quarts. Doing math that leaves theoretically 6 left in the car before the 9.5 fill. So now a theoretical 15+- in the car. I began to do some research and make phone calls to find no answer. I decided it was better not to have the car overfilled and I would drain it again. When draining the oil I got 10 quarts out that were about the color of maple syrup. Not gold and not black but somewhere in between. This tells me that there was in fact more(used) oil in the car. I checked the level of the car as some may be in the nose and my 2 degrees of nose tilt probably isn’t enough to hide that 5-7 quarts that didn’t come out. With the 9.5 to start minus 3.5 and then additional 9.5 minus the 10 I should be at 5.5 quarts. Just for fun I did the oil level check once more this time with the drain plug out and about 20 minutes after my second draining. This resulted in a reading about 70% of the way between the low and high fill lines on the car WITH THE DRAIN PLUG OUT. I got to thinking that maybe the oil was low to start but then the oil would be clean since I just changed it an hour before. Therefore there is some in the car. Also these have sensors that tell you if it’s burning oil as well as the fact that the oil was replaced nearly 3000 miles prior. Of which there have been no evidence of leaks under the car either. If a reading of near perfect on oil level with no drain plug occurs what am I left to believe? I imagine a quart or two could be sitting in the oil cooler but I find it hard to believe that a quart or two would be enough to make 9.5 clean quarts dark like the color of maple syrup. Reminder that this is 3k mile “used” oil. It was dark but not black. Still had some transparency. I am beyond confused and will not be driving the car until this is figured out PLEASE HELP SOS

I also don’t know if the 15 seconds of run time would have fouled my plugs or caused other damage to the engine.

Did you jack up only the rear of the car? Or both front and rear, so it's sitting level? Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

I jacked up the rear on my driveway. I measured the level of the car and it was only a 2 degree bias towards the front

Following because I'm curious.

Changes in oil tint are normal and can be instant when old and new oil mix. It's better to use time and mileage as oil standards than color or send a sample to Blackstone to get an accurate assessment to ease your mind if you like. I don't think this issue is the car tilt either, 70% retention with the plug out would no way happen with a stock setup IMO with the stated tilt. It sounds more like the modifications may need procedural adjustments to basic oil changes or there is an issue with said modifications but that's just a WAG.

The deeper pan would all still drain to the plug but the oil cooler may hold some definitely not the 6-7 quarts I am still missing somewhere in the car

If the deeper pan was all draining properly to the plug there would not be a large volume stranded, hence the need for investigation. I was just looking at the oversized 9A1 oil cooler as a comparison, no way that holds more than a quart.

Which is why I am so confused. Also the oil gauge says the car is good with the plug removed and no perceivable oil left in the car. The reason why I know there is more is when I removed the fresh oil an hour after I put it in it was not good it was more soy sauce or maple syrup in color(not consistency) which proves there is more oil in the car and a substantial amount.

Oil gauge as in the one you need to warm the engine to see? In the 2006 series is it like mine you need to warm the car and take a 60 second reading? Am I understanding you ran the engine plug out and took an oil level reading?

I filled it read it high then ran it to see if it needed to cycle through it bogged 8-10 seconds after start. I cut the engine. Drained the fresh oil turned the key halfway to take a reading with the engine off as it states you are supposed to do(it won’t let you when the engine is on) and with the plug out read at 70% between low fill and high fill marks

Sounds like it's different than mine, the 9A1 has to be running and up to temperature. It runs through a cycle, counts itself down and then displays the level. See what others offer but if it was mine I'd want to see what's up in that pan and sump, your description of the oil is suspect and you don't want sludge forming. The AOS should be checked too.

Do you know the amount/fill level of the oil prior to your first drain? I suppose this would be your first oil change after purchase, so having a baseline before draining is important; t may not have been full to start with. Furthermore, just a small amount of residual oil can change the color of new oil depending on its age.

It is my first change since purchase and I read the level before getting underneath it to remove any and it said it was good and at the 70% level. But that doesn’t explain how I was only able to get 3.5 quarts out the first empty. After putting 9.5 in it if it was in fact low then it should be fine but it read over and the engine bogged a couple seconds into startup. This isn’t adding up

Boris, the older version 987.1 S can be read after 5 seconds with the key on but not running. Oil change with really hot oil is best using a flat catch pan. Then lowering the rear to level and letting it sit for 1/2 hour. The jacking it up and putting the drain plug back in. Then leveling it and slowly adding oil. I use the Red Febspeed jack point to lift the rear. Makes oil changes a lot easier.

The car has a vision motor sports built motor with 23k on it

Call Vision on your hot rod with 23k on the Vision engine.

I doubt over a 1.5 gallons of oil is still in there. I thought I heard that before draining the gauge said 70% (between hi & low) and after the drain it also said 70%? When draining the last time you got around 10Qt out. Well, one plausible theory is you only had 3.5Qt in there to start with. And the ruff running is caused by something else. Maybe clogged AOS . Or worse - pull a spark plug out and hope the cylinder isn't full of oil.

Not a garage queen I put 3k miles in the 7 weeks I had it. Car had fresh oil before it was delivered to me

I use a similar prop to the jackpoint, I've never had a problem getting all the oil out, it flows quite easily.

I'm old and easily confused, so bear (bare?) with me - I have some questions. -- You got the car 3,000 miles ago with a fresh oil change on it? -- You didn't check the oil level before draining the oil in anticipation of changing the oil? -- You didn't change/drain the oil filter (I don't see any mention of it - but I might have missed it since a wall of text always makes my mind wander a bit..) FWIW - the filter housing/filter probably holds +600cc. -- You jacked the car up and drained the oil and 3.5 quarts (not liters) came out? -- The car has an extra deep oil pan or a pan extension - that gives 2.5 quarts greater capacity? -- The car has an oversized oil cooler (heat exchanger)? -- Was the oil hot when it was drained? -- The car uses the standard electronic oil level sensor? So adding the last two things together - you figured you needed the stock oil capacity (which is around 7.7L or 8.2 quarts) + 2 quarts? For a total of around 10 quarts? -- So you put in around 10 quarts? -- And at that point, the fill indicated 70% (I assume you mean 3/4 of the bars were showing oil?) -- So you started it figuring some oil was missing somewhere - maybe the heat exchanger? -- It then bogged and didn't want to run -- So you drained the oil back out and got 10 quarts out - but it was darker than when you put it in. -- You then checked the oil level and it still showed 70%? While the pan was empty? Whew... OK - a few more questions: -- Where is the drain in the new/modified oil pan? Does it use the stock oil pan with an extension to add the extra capacity? -- Or is it a fully machined oil pan (which may have internal baffles to prevent oil sloshing away from the oil pump pickup on turns)? -- Did it come with an extension for the oil pump pickup so the pickup is in the bottom of the extended sump? -- Where is the oil level sensor screwed into the oil pan? -- Did you receive any documentation on the modified engine as to what the oil capacity should be? I think that's all the questions I can think of... I'm really a bit puzzled, but the modified engine introduces more chances for error so we need some details on it. I guess it's possible the oil level sensor is kaput and permanently stuck at 70%. Usually, they fail open and indicate no oil in the sump, and will flash a big RED warning on the dash about not driving the car and getting it to a workshop. And I guess it's possible you might have a bad AOS that over the 3,000 miles you've been driving it (probably enthusiastically) allowed the engine to suck in about 6 quarts of oil and burn it. That's about 500 miles/quart, which should produce enough smoke to be noticeable, but not at mosquito fogging level (you have to be of a certain age to know what that's about..) so let's say not at stunt-plane levels. So two failures - a bad AOS and a bad oil level sensor could have resulted in the car running on 3.5 quarts of oil, without you knowing it. Certainly not optimal, but it probably won't destroy the engine unless you did some sustained long high-G turns. So next you change the oil, note the lack of oil drained, then fill it with the calculated amount of oil that takes into account the modifications that have been done to the engine - ie - 10 quarts. You check the oil level, and it tells you 70% still (no change - CLUE - oil level sensor kaput) and it quickly bogs down. Possibly by a lot of oil getting into the intake via the bad AOS - flooding the mass-airflow-sensor, and perhaps fouling the spark plugs . That's the only scenario I can think of with the symptoms you've provided. But more ideas might be forthcoming with answers to my questions above. When you do answer them - please DO USE paragraph breaks. As I said, I'm old and start to nod off and lose interest when faced with an unending wall of text. Oh - what to do? Depends. You might open the lid over the top of the engine and look at some spots in the intake and see if they have a lot of oil in them. That would be a big clue the AOS has gone to meet its maker. I think possibly measuring the actual value from the oil-level-sensor (which will require a Porsche-specific diagnostics tool) after filling the engine with say 9 quarts of oil, then draining it and measuring it again. Although you've really already done this. One clarification on the oil level display on the dash. 70% doesn't mean the car only has 7 quarts of oil in it. The oil level display measures about the top liter of oil - ie - on a stock engine, it displays the level from around 6.7L to 7.7L. When it shows empty (and the warning light comes on) you're actually about 1 liter low on oil. You are not 3 liters low on oil. I'm sure you realized this already, but just in case... Good luck, looking forward to your answers. And the suggestion of contacting the engine maker is a good one. They might be able to help you out especially if they installed the modified parts.

So to answer your questions when I drained the oil it was hot I did empty the oil filter and I did check the oil level before raising the car up and draining it. I drained the 3.5 QUARTS not liters then added 9.5. In it. Yes there is a baffled spacer in the oil pan extending it maintaining factory oil level just making the bottom deeper for the 2.5 quart. I believe that’s total not additional 2.5 quarts. yes the car was purchased 3k miles ago and the oil was changed just before it was dropped off to me. As for how much I put in and level checking I added 9.5 after draining what I could and it read over the full line. Only when I completely drained out 10 quarts an hour after filling with the plug still out reading at 70%. Reminder this was also the same reading as before I touched the car yes this is the electronic oil level reader that you have to have the car off for and wait about 12 seconds to see

OK. The reason I asked about the baffled spacer is I wonder if the baffles could have trapped some oil if the car was lifted at one end - not allowing it to drain, but there is no way it would trap that much oil.. so.... The hypothesis of a defective oil sender and a possibly bad AOS still stands. The oil sender obviously should not be reading 70% (which means only about 3/4 liter low) when you drained out the 10 quarts. And it's suspicious since it also read 70% before you drained out the original oil (3.5 quarts). I would question how the sender actually works and what the routine is to measure the oil level. On most Porsches I've encountered with electronic level measurement, they typically want the oil level measured on a car with hot oil. That's true on the 987.2 and on a 955 and 958 Cayenne V8. In those cases if you tried to measure the oil cold, or before it had a chance to heat cycle at least once you received a message telling the owner to drive it some more and then check the level. Here is the routine on a 987.2 (although it claims to be for all 987's I believe that's wrong) - note the engine is running and must be "up to temperature"... This one claims to be for 986, 987, and 911 - but doesn't say what years. Unfortunately, he felt the need to talk through the entire 5-minute measuring time, but the difference between the two is obvious - in the first one the engine is running, in the second one - the engine warmed up but not running: In either case - it should give you a message if the oil level isn't ready for measurement - which you haven't mentioned getting, and by ready - "up to temperature" (I believe in the service manual the specification is oil temperature between 90-100C.. The thing is - the oil temperature is measured using the oil level sensor - it's a multifunction device. If you can read the oil level (or what it's showing as the oil level) with the engine oil cold (as you described) - that really points to me that the oil level sensor isn't working. It's somehow telling the ECU that the oil is hot - when it's not. Again - looking at it with a Porsche diagnostics tool should give some clues - if the diagnostic tool reads the temperature as +90C with cold oil - you have a dead sensor. The other question I'd have is - does this extended pan require a different oil level sensor? All the German cars I've seen have the level/temperature sensor bolted into an opening in the bottom of the pan. If the modified pan still uses this design, it would make the sensor pretty much worthless since it wouldn't be anywhere near to the level that the pan should be filled to (it's not a float device - it's a pointing thing sticking up into the oil..) A pic illustrating where the sensor is: And one showing the probe that goes up into the oil: So the question is - what did the extended spacer manufacturer do to compensate for the inadequate length of the sensor? That's what I'd address first. You could just buy a new sensor and replace the existing one. You'd have to find out if it's a special sensor used for this pan. If it isn't a different sensor than stock I'd be quizing the spacer manufacturer on exactly HOW they expect an owner to check the oil level, since the sensor simply isn't going to indicate anything close to the correct level. And if the engine runs (which from what you said is questionable) you could check for high crankcase vacuum indicating a failed AOS... Good luck - let us know what you find out.

BTW - went looking: LN Engineering - "Bilt Racing 2 QT Deep Sump Kit " claims to add 2 quarts: I see nothing there that would address the oil level sensor. That's vs RR-Racing's Sump Kit: (c) RR Racing - all rights reserved.. Which does have a provision to use the stock level sensor by mounting it in a recess in the bottom of the pan, placing it at the correct level for the expected normal oil level. The only way I can imagine the LN Racing design expects you to know the oil level is by filling it with the specified (by them) amount of oil, which apparently will take the sensor to 100%, then if it drops enough - the sensor indicates 70% and you know you're low on oil - but not how much low. That could result in someone who doesn't know this ending up with an engine with only 3.5 quarts of oil in it since the 70% readout would never change. Maybe if the 70% readout happens you could very slowly fill it up in small increments until it goes to 100% - but this is a completely PITA way to do it, especially for a device meant to work with cars that will probably be raced (no other reason to have it actually.) And the sensor would provide no safety warning of low oil unless it's in measurement mode (not likely on a track..) That to me - would be an absolutely unacceptable design, so we can hope to hear that it's a special sensor. A final thought - if you're not going to race the car - perhaps reverting to the stock system and removing the spacer might be the real solution. That way you'd know exactly what amount to put in when doing a change, and the oil level sensor should read correctly.

BTW - looked a bit more - found another site selling two different designs. One looked much like the LN Engineering design. The site is: Design911 - Dedicated to your Porsche needs What I found really interesting is an installation manual for the one that was like LN Engineering's design: https://www.design911.com/uploads/pdfs/DESIGN911_2Quart-Oil-Deep-Sump-Kit_2.pdf And that manual makes absolutely no mention of how to determine the oil level is correct. Zilch. I have to guess their assumption is - if you burn off the extra 2 quarts of oil it adds, the sensor will start actually indicating oil level then, and you'll only be as badly off as you were without the expensive sump extension. Bizarre.. the only really engineered solution I see is the RR Racing one.

@RSchwerer - great point. The place changing it might not have realized it needed an additional 2 (2.5?) quarts of oil so that might mean it only burned off 4.5 quarts.. More digging turns up a much better LN Engineering solution - and obviously much more expensive: Porsche Bilt Racing Service 2.5QT Deep Sump Oil Pan Kit for 9A1 Engine LN Engineering LN.106.00.5 LN 106 00 5 LN106005 | Pelican Parts LN Engineering Bilt Racing Service 2.5QT Deep Sump Oil Pan Kit for 9A1 Engine. Call (310)626-8765. May Qualify For FREE SHIPPING. Parts# LN 106 00 5 LN.106.00.5 LN106005. Cayman, Boxster, 911. www.pelicanparts.com Recessed oil level sensor... so they know what they're doing.

For the record and an actual fact, the 987.1 check oil is done with the engine cold and not running, by turning the key to the first position. Takes about 2-3 seconds. The alternative if checking hot oil, is it forces you to wait several minutes, engine NOT running, until the oil drains back into the pan. The message will say, for example, 5 minutes until oil reading. How a deep sump would affect it, I have no idea.

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Sharing LN Article on setting oil level

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